I will pay more in federal income taxes this year than ExxonMobil
 

On 4/13/10 9:42 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 06:29:40 -0400,
wrote:

On 4/13/10 12:10 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:26:47 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

What ever happened to being sentenced to "hard labor" and paying the
victim back form that meager salary? ;-)

Oh I forgot, the unions objected.
(actually a fact)



What?? Why would a union have anything to do with a personal injury suit? I
love it... "the unions" all of them?

--

No the unions are why the state can't use convict labor for much of
anything, including working to pay restitution.
I was in the belly of the beast when I was a state electrical
inspector and I saw a lot of inmate work going on but it was, by law,
all inside the wire and only for DoC.
They couldn't even work for the park system or DoT in any capacity but
the most menial labor (cutting grass, weeding or digging ditches) in
spite of the fact that lots of skilled trades were in jail, mostly for
drugs


I see. You want to displace hard-working, law-abiding citizens with
convict laborers earning what, 13 cents an hour? Welcome to the gulag.


They were being displaced by a park ranger making $12 an hour, doing
electrical work in areas that were open to the public. I think I would
rather have a journeyman electrician doing it who had the misfortune
of being caught with 3 joints in his sock.

I would rather have a licensed, out of jail, electrician doing
electrical work in areas open to the public, rather than a convict or a
park ranger.



--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I will pay more in federal income taxes this year than ExxonMobil
 

On 4/13/10 11:42 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 10:17:50 -0400,
wrote:

I see. You want to displace hard-working, law-abiding citizens with
convict laborers earning what, 13 cents an hour? Welcome to the gulag.


They were being displaced by a park ranger making $12 an hour, doing
electrical work in areas that were open to the public. I think I would
rather have a journeyman electrician doing it who had the misfortune
of being caught with 3 joints in his sock.

I would rather have a licensed, out of jail, electrician doing
electrical work in areas open to the public, rather than a convict or a
park ranger.

We all would but, for some reason, nobody wants to give the parks any
money. Now that state budgets are stressed, it will only get worse.
Everyone wants to go to a nice park but they think it should be free.
Even a couple dollar user fee usually draws howls from the public and
that is chump change compared to real operational costs.


A few lawsuits in public facilities resulting from accidents involving
electrical wiring installed by non-licensed "handymen" ought to open
some eyes.

--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I will pay more in federal income taxes this year than ExxonMobil
 

On 4/13/10 12:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:50:59 -0400,
wrote:

On 4/13/10 11:42 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 10:17:50 -0400,
wrote:

I see. You want to displace hard-working, law-abiding citizens with
convict laborers earning what, 13 cents an hour? Welcome to the gulag.


They were being displaced by a park ranger making $12 an hour, doing
electrical work in areas that were open to the public. I think I would
rather have a journeyman electrician doing it who had the misfortune
of being caught with 3 joints in his sock.

I would rather have a licensed, out of jail, electrician doing
electrical work in areas open to the public, rather than a convict or a
park ranger.

We all would but, for some reason, nobody wants to give the parks any
money. Now that state budgets are stressed, it will only get worse.
Everyone wants to go to a nice park but they think it should be free.
Even a couple dollar user fee usually draws howls from the public and
that is chump change compared to real operational costs.


A few lawsuits in public facilities resulting from accidents involving
electrical wiring installed by non-licensed "handymen" ought to open
some eyes.

sovereign immunity laws make it pretty hard to sue the state.


For gross negligence? :)


--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I will pay more in federal income taxes this year than ExxonMobil
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:21:48 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:26:47 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

What ever happened to being sentenced to "hard labor" and paying the
victim back form that meager salary? ;-)

Oh I forgot, the unions objected.
(actually a fact)



What?? Why would a union have anything to do with a personal injury
suit?
I
love it... "the unions" all of them?

--

No the unions are why the state can't use convict labor for much of
anything, including working to pay restitution.
I was in the belly of the beast when I was a state electrical
inspector and I saw a lot of inmate work going on but it was, by law,
all inside the wire and only for DoC.
They couldn't even work for the park system or DoT in any capacity but
the most menial labor (cutting grass, weeding or digging ditches) in
spite of the fact that lots of skilled trades were in jail, mostly for
drugs


Firstly, that's completely untrue. Convicts can volunteer for all sorts of
jobs. Most would relish the opportunity. Secondly, you state "the unions"
as
though they're homogeneous which they are not. Why would you want convicts
working for DoT? I think menial labor is probably about right. Finally, I
don't agree with the drug laws.

Inmates don't "get to volunteer" for anything. They live under very
strict rules and they get told what to do. At least that is how it
works in most places. I can't speak for California.
It certainly is not true in Florida and I got that straight from the
DoC people and the DEP people. Inmates can't do any skilled trades
outside the wire, period. The reason cited was that it would be
competing with regular employees. It isn't even a minimum wage
question because DEP said they would be willing to pay minimum wage.
it was simply the "trade groups" (I apologize for saying union since
we are RTW here) putting pressure on the state to eliminate the
competition for state dollars.
Unfortunately that resulted in park rangers and volunteers doing
electrical work that they were not qualified to do.


Why would you want convicts displacing skilled workers "outside the wire"??
That makes no sense, esp. in this economy.

I think you're jumping to lots of conclusions. Trade groups? All trade
groups? How about regular citizens? Perhaps we should let rapists out to
work on grade schools? Come on.

Inmates are not required to work inside. Yet, they volunteer for it all the
time.

--
Nom=de=Plume

I will pay more in federal income taxes this year than ExxonMobil
 

"anon-e-moose" wrote in message
...
hk wrote:
On 4/13/10 12:10 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:26:47 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

What ever happened to being sentenced to "hard labor" and paying the
victim back form that meager salary? ;-)

Oh I forgot, the unions objected.
(actually a fact)



What?? Why would a union have anything to do with a personal injury
suit? I
love it... "the unions" all of them?

--

No the unions are why the state can't use convict labor for much of
anything, including working to pay restitution.
I was in the belly of the beast when I was a state electrical
inspector and I saw a lot of inmate work going on but it was, by law,
all inside the wire and only for DoC.
They couldn't even work for the park system or DoT in any capacity but
the most menial labor (cutting grass, weeding or digging ditches) in
spite of the fact that lots of skilled trades were in jail, mostly for
drugs


I see. You want to displace hard-working, law-abiding citizens with
convict laborers earning what, 13 cents an hour? Welcome to the gulag.

Oh please. You are talking about over paid union slackers here. Quit
trying to sugar coat their productivity usefullness.


So, the correct wages are $0.14 per hour for union workers? Who contributes
to society more/pay more taxes.. people who are in prison or people getting
$20-$35/hour?

--
Nom=de=Plume

I will pay more in federal income taxes this year than ExxonMobil
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 06:29:40 -0400, hk
wrote:

On 4/13/10 12:10 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:26:47 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

What ever happened to being sentenced to "hard labor" and paying the
victim back form that meager salary? ;-)

Oh I forgot, the unions objected.
(actually a fact)



What?? Why would a union have anything to do with a personal injury
suit? I
love it... "the unions" all of them?

--

No the unions are why the state can't use convict labor for much of
anything, including working to pay restitution.
I was in the belly of the beast when I was a state electrical
inspector and I saw a lot of inmate work going on but it was, by law,
all inside the wire and only for DoC.
They couldn't even work for the park system or DoT in any capacity but
the most menial labor (cutting grass, weeding or digging ditches) in
spite of the fact that lots of skilled trades were in jail, mostly for
drugs


I see. You want to displace hard-working, law-abiding citizens with
convict laborers earning what, 13 cents an hour? Welcome to the gulag.


They were being displaced by a park ranger making $12 an hour, doing
electrical work in areas that were open to the public. I think I would
rather have a journeyman electrician doing it who had the misfortune
of being caught with 3 joints in his sock.


Wrong again...
http://www.rangercareers.com/parkran...ngersalary.htm

Read the first sentence.

--
Nom=de=Plume

I will pay more in federal income taxes this year than ExxonMobil
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:50:59 -0400, hk
wrote:

On 4/13/10 11:42 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 10:17:50 -0400,
wrote:

I see. You want to displace hard-working, law-abiding citizens with
convict laborers earning what, 13 cents an hour? Welcome to the
gulag.


They were being displaced by a park ranger making $12 an hour, doing
electrical work in areas that were open to the public. I think I would
rather have a journeyman electrician doing it who had the misfortune
of being caught with 3 joints in his sock.

I would rather have a licensed, out of jail, electrician doing
electrical work in areas open to the public, rather than a convict or a
park ranger.

We all would but, for some reason, nobody wants to give the parks any
money. Now that state budgets are stressed, it will only get worse.
Everyone wants to go to a nice park but they think it should be free.
Even a couple dollar user fee usually draws howls from the public and
that is chump change compared to real operational costs.


A few lawsuits in public facilities resulting from accidents involving
electrical wiring installed by non-licensed "handymen" ought to open
some eyes.

sovereign immunity laws make it pretty hard to sue the state.


This wouldn't apply to the situation you described.

--
Nom=de=Plume

I will pay more in federal income taxes this year than ExxonMobil
 

On 4/13/10 12:46 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
hk wrote:
On 4/13/10 12:10 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:26:47 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

What ever happened to being sentenced to "hard labor" and paying the
victim back form that meager salary? ;-)

Oh I forgot, the unions objected.
(actually a fact)



What?? Why would a union have anything to do with a personal injury
suit? I
love it... "the unions" all of them?

--

No the unions are why the state can't use convict labor for much of
anything, including working to pay restitution.
I was in the belly of the beast when I was a state electrical
inspector and I saw a lot of inmate work going on but it was, by law,
all inside the wire and only for DoC.
They couldn't even work for the park system or DoT in any capacity but
the most menial labor (cutting grass, weeding or digging ditches) in
spite of the fact that lots of skilled trades were in jail, mostly for
drugs


I see. You want to displace hard-working, law-abiding citizens with
convict laborers earning what, 13 cents an hour? Welcome to the gulag.

Oh please. You are talking about over paid union slackers here. Quit
trying to sugar coat their productivity usefullness.


So, the correct wages are $0.14 per hour for union workers? Who contributes
to society more/pay more taxes.. people who are in prison or people getting
$20-$35/hour?



"Anon" is trolling...he can't post under his old handle here, because he
made too much of an ass of himself.

--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I will pay more in federal income taxes this year than ExxonMobil
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:44:52 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message

Why would you want convicts displacing skilled workers "outside the
wire"??
That makes no sense, esp. in this economy.

They work all the time outside the wire just not in any kind of
skilled trade. You have journeymen tradesmen cutting grass, picking up
trash and weeding along the side of the road.
The state does it because people are not willing to pay the taxes
necessary to hire people and citizens want these inmates to earn their
keep.

Are they displacing skilled workers????? That was the question, which you
seem to acknowledge the answer is no.

I think you're jumping to lots of conclusions. Trade groups? All trade
groups? How about regular citizens? Perhaps we should let rapists out to
work on grade schools? Come on.

It is the trade group that lobbies the state legislature. Which one
would all depend on the trade in question.
They can cut the grass in the playground and pick up trash, they just
can't screw in a light bulb.

So?



Inmates are not required to work inside. Yet, they volunteer for it all
the
time.

They do get to volunteer to work and they do get paid for it but they
have no real control about where they work or what they do beyond
their influence with the super. If you **** him off you might be
cleaning out grease traps all day or you can just go back and sit in
your cell..

And your point?

--
Nom=de=Plume

I will pay more in federal income taxes this year than ExxonMobil
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:46:07 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

convict laborers earning what, 13 cents an hour? Welcome to the gulag.

Oh please. You are talking about over paid union slackers here. Quit
trying to sugar coat their productivity usefullness.


So, the correct wages are $0.14 per hour for union workers? Who
contributes
to society more/pay more taxes.. people who are in prison or people
getting
$20-$35/hour?

I believe Florida inmates make at least minimum wage but they do get
their pay docked for room and board.
There was a program that would have allowed them to work and get paid
for it at close to prevailing wage but that was pretty much shot down.

These are by definition minimum security inmates, working outside the
wire, in most cases close to release.

My real question is, if we really expect these people to return to
society, why wouldn't we want to give them a good work ethic for a
reasonable wage? Otherwise, why don't we just kill them?


They have the opportunity in most states to learn new skills.

--
Nom=de=Plume