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Well, what did you expect?
W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second
By TIM HUBER, AP Business Writer Tim Huber, Ap Business Writer 16 mins ago JULIAN, W.Va. – The coal mine rocked by an explosion that killed at least 25 workers in the nation's deadliest mining disaster since 1984 had been cited for 600 violations in less than a year and a half, some of them for not properly ventilating methane — the highly combustible gas suspected in the blast. The disaster at the Upper Big Branch mine has focused attention on the business and safety practices of the owner, Massey Energy, a powerful and politically connected company in Appalachia known for producing big profits, as well as big piles of safety and environmental violations and big damage awards for grieving widows. "There are mines in this country who have operated safely for 20 years," said J. Davitt McAteer, head of the federal Mine Safety and Health Administration in the Clinton administration. "There are mines who take precautions ahead of time. There are mines who spend the money and manpower to do it." He added: "Those mines haven't been blown up." Four other miners were missing and feared dead underground in Monday's blast, believed to have been caused by a buildup of methane, a naturally occurring gas that is odorless and colorless. Last year alone, MSHA cited Upper Big Branch for 495 violations and proposed $911,802 in fines. Production more than tripled during that period, according to federal records. So far this year, the agency has found 105 violations at the mine. Upper Big Branch is one of Massey's biggest underground mines, with more than 200 employees, and it is not uncommon for big coal mines to amass hundreds of violations a year — and to contest many of them, as Massey does. But most big mines don't have as many serious infractions as Upper Big Branch, industry experts said. At least 50 citations charge the company with "unwarrantable failure" to comply with safety standards such as following an approved ventilation plan, controlling combustible materials or designating escape routes. "I've never seen that many for one mine in a year," said Ellen Smith, editor of Mine Safety & Health News. "If you look at other mines that are the same size or bigger, they do not have the sheer number of `unwarrantable' citations that this mine has." Massey has had problems elsewhere, too. In 2006, two miners were killed in a fire at Massey's Aracoma Alma No. 1 mine. Massey settled a wrongful death lawsuit for an undisclosed sum, and its subsidiary Aracoma Coal Co. paid $3.7 million in civil and criminal penalties. Testimony showed Massey CEO Don Blankenship suggested firing two supervisors for raising concerns about conveyer belt problems just before the belt caught fire. "Massey has a history of emphasizing production," said Pittsburgh lawyer Bruce Stanley, who represented the miners' widows. "I'm concerned that they may not have learned the lessons of Aracoma." In an interview less than 24 hours after the disaster at Upper Big Branch, Blankenship insisted the mine is no more dangerous than others of comparable size, and he defended the company's track record in a perilous business. "It's natural that the enemies of coal would view Massey as the primary enemy," he said. He pointed out Massey's many innovations, such as installing steps in place of ladders and putting protective cages on underground vehicles even though the government doesn't require them. "I think that I've proven that we run safer coal mines — you know, most of the time — and accidents sometimes happen. We've got to figure out what happened here," he said. Kevin Stricklin, an MSHA administrator, said that the number of citations at the mine appeared high, and that he was concerned about the more serious violations. "It means the operator was aware of some of these conditions," he said. Massey is contesting 36 percent of all violations at Upper Big Branch since 2007, The Associated Press found. Overall, U.S. mine operators contest 27 percent. Challenging violations can enable a mine owner to stave off the heavier punishment that the government can impose on companies that have been deemed repeat offenders. Massey became a political and industrial powerhouse under the guidance of Blankenship, who rose from poverty to become one of corporate America's highest-paid and least apologetic executives, a guy who proudly displays in his office a TV set with a bullet hole from a striking union miner's rifle. He freely spent millions of dollars from his personal fortune to help install a West Virginia Supreme Court justice, a maneuver that led to an important conflict-of-interest ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court, and on a failed bid to elect a Republican majority in the state Legislature. Under Blankenship, Massey clawed to the top of the Appalachian coal industry, shrewdly buying up coal deposits to amass more than 2 billion tons of reserves. It is a major economic force regionally, with more than 6,000 high-paid miners in some of the poorest counties in America. Operating nonunion mines across southern West Virginia, eastern Kentucky and southwestern Virginia, Massey more than doubled its profit to $104.4 million in 2009 from the year before, despite slumping demand for coal amid the recession. The company expects to be shipping 2 million tons of coal a year to India by next year. Massey has managed to push the United Mine Workers union out of all of its operations except for a single processing plant. Blankenship's hard-driving approach was illustrated in a 2005 memo in which he told mine workers that if their bosses ask them to build roof supports or perform similar tasks, "ignore them and run coal." "This memo is necessary only because we seem not to understand that the coal pays the bills," he wrote. Few workers are willing to openly criticize Massey because of its powerful hold on people's livelihoods in Appalachia. But Terry Holstein, who worked at Upper Big Branch, said it took him 10 years to decide he didn't like the way Massey ran the mine. He left in 2006. "It was like they wanted production more than they wanted safety, myself, you know what I mean?" he said. "They speak safety first, but production's really first for them." Well -- In more progressive countries, Blankenship would be charged with criminal violations... |
Well, what did you expect?
On Apr 6, 7:40*pm, hk wrote:
W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second By TIM HUBER, AP Business Writer Tim Huber, Ap Business Writer 16 mins ago JULIAN, W.Va. – The coal mine rocked by an explosion that killed at least 25 workers in the nation's deadliest mining disaster since 1984 had been cited for 600 violations in less than a year and a half, some of them for not properly ventilating methane — the highly combustible gas suspected in the blast. The disaster at the Upper Big Branch mine has focused attention on the business and safety practices of the owner, Massey Energy, a powerful and politically connected company in Appalachia known for producing big profits, as well as big piles of safety and environmental violations and big damage awards for grieving widows. "There are mines in this country who have operated safely for 20 years," said J. Davitt McAteer, head of the federal Mine Safety and Health Administration in the Clinton administration. "There are mines who take precautions ahead of time. There are mines who spend the money and manpower to do it." He added: "Those mines haven't been blown up." Four other miners were missing and feared dead underground in Monday's blast, believed to have been caused by a buildup of methane, a naturally occurring gas that is odorless and colorless. Last year alone, MSHA cited Upper Big Branch for 495 violations and proposed $911,802 in fines. Production more than tripled during that period, according to federal records. So far this year, the agency has found 105 violations at the mine. Upper Big Branch is one of Massey's biggest underground mines, with more than 200 employees, and it is not uncommon for big coal mines to amass hundreds of violations a year — and to contest many of them, as Massey does. But most big mines don't have as many serious infractions as Upper Big Branch, industry experts said. At least 50 citations charge the company with "unwarrantable failure" to comply with safety standards such as following an approved ventilation plan, controlling combustible materials or designating escape routes. "I've never seen that many for one mine in a year," said Ellen Smith, editor of Mine Safety & Health News. "If you look at other mines that are the same size or bigger, they do not have the sheer number of `unwarrantable' citations that this mine has." Massey has had problems elsewhere, too. In 2006, two miners were killed in a fire at Massey's Aracoma Alma No. 1 mine. Massey settled a wrongful death lawsuit for an undisclosed sum, and its subsidiary Aracoma Coal Co. paid $3.7 million in civil and criminal penalties. Testimony showed Massey CEO Don Blankenship suggested firing two supervisors for raising concerns about conveyer belt problems just before the belt caught fire. "Massey has a history of emphasizing production," said Pittsburgh lawyer Bruce Stanley, who represented the miners' widows. "I'm concerned that they may not have learned the lessons of Aracoma." In an interview less than 24 hours after the disaster at Upper Big Branch, Blankenship insisted the mine is no more dangerous than others of comparable size, and he defended the company's track record in a perilous business. "It's natural that the enemies of coal would view Massey as the primary enemy," he said. He pointed out Massey's many innovations, such as installing steps in place of ladders and putting protective cages on underground vehicles even though the government doesn't require them. "I think that I've proven that we run safer coal mines — you know, most of the time — and accidents sometimes happen. We've got to figure out what happened here," he said. Kevin Stricklin, an MSHA administrator, said that the number of citations at the mine appeared high, and that he was concerned about the more serious violations. "It means the operator was aware of some of these conditions," he said. Massey is contesting 36 percent of all violations at Upper Big Branch since 2007, The Associated Press found. Overall, U.S. mine operators contest 27 percent. Challenging violations can enable a mine owner to stave off the heavier punishment that the government can impose on companies that have been deemed repeat offenders. Massey became a political and industrial powerhouse under the guidance of Blankenship, who rose from poverty to become one of corporate America's highest-paid and least apologetic executives, a guy who proudly displays in his office a TV set with a bullet hole from a striking union miner's rifle. He freely spent millions of dollars from his personal fortune to help install a West Virginia Supreme Court justice, a maneuver that led to an important conflict-of-interest ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court, and on a failed bid to elect a Republican majority in the state Legislature. Under Blankenship, Massey clawed to the top of the Appalachian coal industry, shrewdly buying up coal deposits to amass more than 2 billion tons of reserves. It is a major economic force regionally, with more than 6,000 high-paid miners in some of the poorest counties in America. Operating nonunion mines across southern West Virginia, eastern Kentucky and southwestern Virginia, Massey more than doubled its profit to $104.4 million in 2009 from the year before, despite slumping demand for coal amid the recession. The company expects to be shipping 2 million tons of coal a year to India by next year. Massey has managed to push the United Mine Workers union out of all of its operations except for a single processing plant. Blankenship's hard-driving approach was illustrated in a 2005 memo in which he told mine workers that if their bosses ask them to build roof supports or perform similar tasks, "ignore them and run coal." "This memo is necessary only because we seem not to understand that the coal pays the bills," he wrote. Few workers are willing to openly criticize Massey because of its powerful hold on people's livelihoods in Appalachia. But Terry Holstein, who worked at Upper Big Branch, said it took him 10 years to decide he didn't like the way Massey ran the mine. He left in 2006. "It was like they wanted production more than they wanted safety, myself, you know what I mean?" he said. "They speak safety first, but production's really first for them." Well -- In more progressive countries, Blankenship would be charged with criminal violations... Actually, dumbass, they were about average for the number of violations. If they were stringent enough to not have any violations ever, they'd be out of business. Then you wouldn't have electicity in your basement so that you could post lie after lie in rec.boats while hiding with your guns drawn. |
Well, what did you expect?
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Well, what did you expect?
On Apr 7, 12:40*pm, hk wrote:
On 4/7/10 12:18 PM, wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:40:56 -0400, wrote: W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second As someone who was the safety officer at a big US corporation, the biggest problem is making the employees actually follow the safety procedures. My wife had a similar problem in the construction industry. I've probably been on a thousand commercial and heavy construction sites since the 1970s...and the safest sites are always the ones on which labor and management play an equal role in patrolling and watching, and in educating the workers about avoiding injury or worse. I was on a site in St. Pete some years ago and watched as the company rep consulted with the steward for a minute and then they both went over to a worker and sent him home for the day without pay. He had been warned about the need to wear steel-toed construction shoes and he kept showing up without them. Minor incident, but telling. Dangerous work can be made safer if management, especially, takes worker safety seriously. That was not the case with the coal mine under discussion. Do you think anybody here besides Don believes anything you say? So, do tell, since I'm in the industry, just what heavy industrial sites have you been affiliated with? |
Well, what did you expect?
On 4/7/10 12:49 PM, Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 7, 12:40 pm, wrote: On 4/7/10 12:18 PM, wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:40:56 -0400, wrote: W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second As someone who was the safety officer at a big US corporation, the biggest problem is making the employees actually follow the safety procedures. My wife had a similar problem in the construction industry. I've probably been on a thousand commercial and heavy construction sites since the 1970s...and the safest sites are always the ones on which labor and management play an equal role in patrolling and watching, and in educating the workers about avoiding injury or worse. I was on a site in St. Pete some years ago and watched as the company rep consulted with the steward for a minute and then they both went over to a worker and sent him home for the day without pay. He had been warned about the need to wear steel-toed construction shoes and he kept showing up without them. Minor incident, but telling. Dangerous work can be made safer if management, especially, takes worker safety seriously. That was not the case with the coal mine under discussion. Do you think anybody here besides Don believes anything you say? So, do tell, since I'm in the industry, just what heavy industrial sites have you been affiliated with? You're "in the industry..." Now that's a laugh...your job as a flagman on highway asphalt jobs hardly counts. I've worked on sites on which substantial refractories were being built, where power plants and cooling towers were under construction, where long suspension bridges were being built. -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym |
Well, what did you expect?
On 07/04/2010 10:24 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/7/10 12:18 PM, wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:40:56 -0400, wrote: W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second As someone who was the safety officer at a big US corporation, the biggest problem is making the employees actually follow the safety procedures. My wife had a similar problem in the construction industry. I have a feeling that was not the problem at this mine. Agreed. Going for the little guy is stupid. Even though that is what will happen. Get the CEO, make him personally pay out of his own pocket $20,000,000 to the families without being re-imbursed by the company. And the company match the payout to the families for another $20,000,000. If they complain, double it. If they still want to fight it, lay down criminal negligence carges on top of it with jail time for the senior executives and board members. Then there will be progress. -- Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money. |
Well, what did you expect?
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Well, what did you expect?
"Canuck57" wrote in message
... On 07/04/2010 10:24 AM, hk wrote: On 4/7/10 12:18 PM, wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:40:56 -0400, wrote: W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second As someone who was the safety officer at a big US corporation, the biggest problem is making the employees actually follow the safety procedures. My wife had a similar problem in the construction industry. I have a feeling that was not the problem at this mine. Agreed. Going for the little guy is stupid. Even though that is what will happen. Get the CEO, make him personally pay out of his own pocket $20,000,000 to the families without being re-imbursed by the company. And the company match the payout to the families for another $20,000,000. If they complain, double it. If they still want to fight it, lay down criminal negligence carges on top of it with jail time for the senior executives and board members. Then there will be progress. -- Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money. Woooooo.... so much for abstaining from gov't intervention. Or, are you talking about trial lawyers???? You're a BOZO! -- Nom=de=Plume |
Well, what did you expect?
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:58:54 -0600, Canuck57 wrote:
Agreed. Going for the little guy is stupid. Even though that is what will happen. Get the CEO, make him personally pay out of his own pocket $20,000,000 to the families without being re-imbursed by the company. And the company match the payout to the families for another $20,000,000. If they complain, double it. If they still want to fight it, lay down criminal negligence carges on top of it with jail time for the senior executives and board members. Then there will be progress. Or learn from the Chinese, and execute the CEOs. Fines just don't cut it, when 25 are dead. |
Well, what did you expect?
On 08/04/2010 6:03 AM, thunder wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:58:54 -0600, Canuck57 wrote: Agreed. Going for the little guy is stupid. Even though that is what will happen. Get the CEO, make him personally pay out of his own pocket $20,000,000 to the families without being re-imbursed by the company. And the company match the payout to the families for another $20,000,000. If they complain, double it. If they still want to fight it, lay down criminal negligence carges on top of it with jail time for the senior executives and board members. Then there will be progress. Or learn from the Chinese, and execute the CEOs. Fines just don't cut it, when 25 are dead. True. One think I will say about Chinese justice, it is harsh and not corrupt. The crap that goes on here, would not occur there. Wagoner of GM fame for example, he wouldn't have gotten a pension. He would have been begging for his life for stiffing all the lenders. And he would have been executed as a mercy act. -- Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money. |
Well, what did you expect?
On 4/8/10 8:03 AM, thunder wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:58:54 -0600, Canuck57 wrote: Agreed. Going for the little guy is stupid. Even though that is what will happen. Get the CEO, make him personally pay out of his own pocket $20,000,000 to the families without being re-imbursed by the company. And the company match the payout to the families for another $20,000,000. If they complain, double it. If they still want to fight it, lay down criminal negligence carges on top of it with jail time for the senior executives and board members. Then there will be progress. Or learn from the Chinese, and execute the CEOs. Fines just don't cut it, when 25 are dead. Well, I don't favor the death penalty, but...serious criminal penalties (as in prison terms), heavy fines against personal assets, et cetera, especially for notoriously bad apples like the CEO of the mining company under discussion, would suffice. I'd said one year in prison doing hard time for each worker killed, plus a million dollar penalty paid to each of the families, would be appropriate. There are always going to be deaths and serious injuries in connection with dangerous work, like mining, construction, et cetera. *Responsible* business executives take the steps necessary to minimize those risks. The irresponsible should be prosecuted and penalized. -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym |
Well, what did you expect?
On Apr 7, 12:57*pm, hk wrote:
On 4/7/10 12:49 PM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 7, 12:40 pm, *wrote: On 4/7/10 12:18 PM, wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:40:56 -0400, wrote: W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second As someone who was the safety officer at a big US corporation, the biggest problem is making the employees actually follow the safety procedures. My wife had a similar problem in the construction industry. I've probably been on a thousand commercial and heavy construction sites since the 1970s...and the safest sites are always the ones on which labor and management play an equal role in patrolling and watching, and in educating the workers about avoiding injury or worse. I was on a site in St. Pete some years ago and watched as the company rep consulted with the steward for a minute and then they both went over to a worker and sent him home for the day without pay. He had been warned about the need to wear steel-toed construction shoes and he kept showing up without them. Minor incident, but telling. Dangerous work can be made safer if management, especially, takes worker safety seriously. That was not the case with the coal mine under discussion. Do you think anybody here besides Don believes anything you say? So, do tell, since I'm in the industry, just what heavy industrial sites have you been affiliated with? You're "in the industry..." Now that's a laugh...your job as a flagman on highway asphalt jobs hardly counts. I've worked on sites on which substantial refractories were being built, where power plants and cooling towers were under construction, where long suspension bridges were being built. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Which ones, liar? |
Well, what did you expect?
On 4/8/10 9:31 AM, Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 7, 12:57 pm, wrote: On 4/7/10 12:49 PM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 7, 12:40 pm, wrote: On 4/7/10 12:18 PM, wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:40:56 -0400, wrote: W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second As someone who was the safety officer at a big US corporation, the biggest problem is making the employees actually follow the safety procedures. My wife had a similar problem in the construction industry. I've probably been on a thousand commercial and heavy construction sites since the 1970s...and the safest sites are always the ones on which labor and management play an equal role in patrolling and watching, and in educating the workers about avoiding injury or worse. I was on a site in St. Pete some years ago and watched as the company rep consulted with the steward for a minute and then they both went over to a worker and sent him home for the day without pay. He had been warned about the need to wear steel-toed construction shoes and he kept showing up without them. Minor incident, but telling. Dangerous work can be made safer if management, especially, takes worker safety seriously. That was not the case with the coal mine under discussion. Do you think anybody here besides Don believes anything you say? So, do tell, since I'm in the industry, just what heavy industrial sites have you been affiliated with? You're "in the industry..." Now that's a laugh...your job as a flagman on highway asphalt jobs hardly counts. I've worked on sites on which substantial refractories were being built, where power plants and cooling towers were under construction, where long suspension bridges were being built. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Which ones, liar? Look, mom...an anonymous asshole who hides behind the screen name "Loogy" (and others) wants more information. -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym |
Well, what did you expect?
On Apr 8, 9:45*am, hk wrote:
On 4/8/10 9:31 AM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 7, 12:57 pm, *wrote: On 4/7/10 12:49 PM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 7, 12:40 pm, * *wrote: On 4/7/10 12:18 PM, wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:40:56 -0400, wrote: W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second As someone who was the safety officer at a big US corporation, the biggest problem is making the employees actually follow the safety procedures. My wife had a similar problem in the construction industry. I've probably been on a thousand commercial and heavy construction sites since the 1970s...and the safest sites are always the ones on which labor and management play an equal role in patrolling and watching, and in educating the workers about avoiding injury or worse. I was on a site in St. Pete some years ago and watched as the company rep consulted with the steward for a minute and then they both went over to a worker and sent him home for the day without pay. He had been warned about the need to wear steel-toed construction shoes and he kept showing up without them. Minor incident, but telling. Dangerous work can be made safer if management, especially, takes worker safety seriously. That was not the case with the coal mine under discussion. Do you think anybody here besides Don believes anything you say? So, do tell, since I'm in the industry, just what heavy industrial sites have you been affiliated with? You're "in the industry..." Now that's a laugh...your job as a flagman on highway asphalt jobs hardly counts. I've worked on sites on which substantial refractories were being built, where power plants and cooling towers were under construction, where long suspension bridges were being built. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym-Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Which ones, liar? Look, mom...an anonymous asshole who hides behind the screen name "Loogy" (and others) wants more information. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As suspected......LIAR. |
Well, what did you expect?
On 4/8/10 9:59 AM, Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 8, 9:45 am, wrote: On 4/8/10 9:31 AM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 7, 12:57 pm, wrote: On 4/7/10 12:49 PM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 7, 12:40 pm, wrote: On 4/7/10 12:18 PM, wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:40:56 -0400, wrote: W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second As someone who was the safety officer at a big US corporation, the biggest problem is making the employees actually follow the safety procedures. My wife had a similar problem in the construction industry. I've probably been on a thousand commercial and heavy construction sites since the 1970s...and the safest sites are always the ones on which labor and management play an equal role in patrolling and watching, and in educating the workers about avoiding injury or worse. I was on a site in St. Pete some years ago and watched as the company rep consulted with the steward for a minute and then they both went over to a worker and sent him home for the day without pay. He had been warned about the need to wear steel-toed construction shoes and he kept showing up without them. Minor incident, but telling. Dangerous work can be made safer if management, especially, takes worker safety seriously. That was not the case with the coal mine under discussion. Do you think anybody here besides Don believes anything you say? So, do tell, since I'm in the industry, just what heavy industrial sites have you been affiliated with? You're "in the industry..." Now that's a laugh...your job as a flagman on highway asphalt jobs hardly counts. I've worked on sites on which substantial refractories were being built, where power plants and cooling towers were under construction, where long suspension bridges were being built. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym-Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Which ones, liar? Look, mom...an anonymous asshole who hides behind the screen name "Loogy" (and others) wants more information. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As suspected......LIAR. You're *not* an anonymous asshole who hides behind the screen name loogy and wants more information? Bull****. -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym |
Well, what did you expect?
On Apr 8, 10:04*am, hk wrote:
On 4/8/10 9:59 AM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 8, 9:45 am, *wrote: On 4/8/10 9:31 AM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 7, 12:57 pm, * *wrote: On 4/7/10 12:49 PM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 7, 12:40 pm, * * *wrote: On 4/7/10 12:18 PM, wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:40:56 -0400, wrote: W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second As someone who was the safety officer at a big US corporation, the biggest problem is making the employees actually follow the safety procedures. My wife had a similar problem in the construction industry. I've probably been on a thousand commercial and heavy construction sites since the 1970s...and the safest sites are always the ones on which labor and management play an equal role in patrolling and watching, and in educating the workers about avoiding injury or worse. I was on a site in St. Pete some years ago and watched as the company rep consulted with the steward for a minute and then they both went over to a worker and sent him home for the day without pay. He had been warned about the need to wear steel-toed construction shoes and he kept showing up without them. Minor incident, but telling. Dangerous work can be made safer if management, especially, takes worker safety seriously. That was not the case with the coal mine under discussion. Do you think anybody here besides Don believes anything you say? So, do tell, since I'm in the industry, just what heavy industrial sites have you been affiliated with? You're "in the industry..." Now that's a laugh...your job as a flagman on highway asphalt jobs hardly counts. I've worked on sites on which substantial refractories were being built, where power plants and cooling towers were under construction, where long suspension bridges were being built. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym-Hidequoted text - - Show quoted text - Which ones, liar? Look, mom...an anonymous asshole who hides behind the screen name "Loogy" (and others) wants more information. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym-Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As suspected......LIAR. You're *not* an anonymous asshole who hides behind the screen name loogy and wants more information? Bull****. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As suspected. You're too narcissistic and ****ed up to even follow a conversation. You come here every day and lie about something. Today it happens to be all of the construction sites you've been involved in. You wouldn't know construction if someone hit you in the head with a 2x4. Hell, just awhile ago, you tried to tell people here that workers made the compound bend for a spiral staircase ON SITE!!!!!! ANYBODY in the industry knows that to be cost effective, you do any fabrication you can in the shop. |
Well, what did you expect?
On 4/8/10 10:08 AM, Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 8, 10:04 am, wrote: On 4/8/10 9:59 AM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 8, 9:45 am, wrote: On 4/8/10 9:31 AM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 7, 12:57 pm, wrote: On 4/7/10 12:49 PM, Loogypicker wrote: On Apr 7, 12:40 pm, wrote: On 4/7/10 12:18 PM, wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:40:56 -0400, wrote: W.Va. mine owner accused of putting safety second As someone who was the safety officer at a big US corporation, the biggest problem is making the employees actually follow the safety procedures. My wife had a similar problem in the construction industry. I've probably been on a thousand commercial and heavy construction sites since the 1970s...and the safest sites are always the ones on which labor and management play an equal role in patrolling and watching, and in educating the workers about avoiding injury or worse. I was on a site in St. Pete some years ago and watched as the company rep consulted with the steward for a minute and then they both went over to a worker and sent him home for the day without pay. He had been warned about the need to wear steel-toed construction shoes and he kept showing up without them. Minor incident, but telling. Dangerous work can be made safer if management, especially, takes worker safety seriously. That was not the case with the coal mine under discussion. Do you think anybody here besides Don believes anything you say? So, do tell, since I'm in the industry, just what heavy industrial sites have you been affiliated with? You're "in the industry..." Now that's a laugh...your job as a flagman on highway asphalt jobs hardly counts. I've worked on sites on which substantial refractories were being built, where power plants and cooling towers were under construction, where long suspension bridges were being built. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym-Hidequoted text - - Show quoted text - Which ones, liar? Look, mom...an anonymous asshole who hides behind the screen name "Loogy" (and others) wants more information. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym-Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As suspected......LIAR. You're *not* an anonymous asshole who hides behind the screen name loogy and wants more information? Bull****. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As suspected. You're too narcissistic and ****ed up to even follow a conversation. You come here every day and lie about something. Today it happens to be all of the construction sites you've been involved in. You wouldn't know construction if someone hit you in the head with a 2x4. Hell, just awhile ago, you tried to tell people here that workers made the compound bend for a spiral staircase ON SITE!!!!!! ANYBODY in the industry knows that to be cost effective, you do any fabrication you can in the shop. A. I know you have ADD problems, Loogy, but try a bit harder. I stated you were an anonymous asshole who hides here behind the screen name Loogy. It seems to me that is indisputable, eh? B. I've never listed "all the construction sites" where I've worked. I listed a couple, but generically. Incidentally, I did not state what my work role was on those few sites, did I? As an example, on the suspension bridge, my role was not that of an iron worker, but as a reporter and photographer whose articles and "art" ran in two magazines, a newspaper, and on a couple of web sites. I've also worked at a site in Michigan where a huge coke refractory was being built *and* in Ohio, I "suited up" to enter a coke refractory being repaired while it was still hot. And no, I'm not talking "Coca Cola" coke. Another of your problems is that your little mind runs in either "black" or "white" mode, and cannot handle abstract thinking. C. The staircase in question, which I believe I mentioned here two years ago, was fabricated, welded and installed on site. How do I know that? Because I was on site for two days, and watched a bit of the fabrication, welding and installation of the staircase *and* some stainless safety railings being built up and installed for the garden roofs of the condos. Another of your problems...your construction job as a signalman on road repavings did not prepare you to comment on construction generally. Since SnottyScotty has been absent for a couple of days, I think, you are holding down the chair as the Dumbest Poster in Rec.Boats. Congrats, Loogy-Anonymous. -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym |
Well, what did you expect?
"Canuck57" wrote in message
... On 08/04/2010 6:03 AM, thunder wrote: On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:58:54 -0600, Canuck57 wrote: Agreed. Going for the little guy is stupid. Even though that is what will happen. Get the CEO, make him personally pay out of his own pocket $20,000,000 to the families without being re-imbursed by the company. And the company match the payout to the families for another $20,000,000. If they complain, double it. If they still want to fight it, lay down criminal negligence carges on top of it with jail time for the senior executives and board members. Then there will be progress. Or learn from the Chinese, and execute the CEOs. Fines just don't cut it, when 25 are dead. True. One think I will say about Chinese justice, it is harsh and not corrupt. The crap that goes on here, would not occur there. Wagoner of GM fame for example, he wouldn't have gotten a pension. He would have been begging for his life for stiffing all the lenders. And he would have been executed as a mercy act. -- Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money. China's legal system not corrupt???? Yeah, those show trials are just for our benefit. They're really humanitarians deep down. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Well, what did you expect?
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Well, what did you expect?
On 08/04/2010 11:31 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message ... On 08/04/2010 6:03 AM, thunder wrote: On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:58:54 -0600, Canuck57 wrote: Agreed. Going for the little guy is stupid. Even though that is what will happen. Get the CEO, make him personally pay out of his own pocket $20,000,000 to the families without being re-imbursed by the company. And the company match the payout to the families for another $20,000,000. If they complain, double it. If they still want to fight it, lay down criminal negligence carges on top of it with jail time for the senior executives and board members. Then there will be progress. Or learn from the Chinese, and execute the CEOs. Fines just don't cut it, when 25 are dead. True. One think I will say about Chinese justice, it is harsh and not corrupt. The crap that goes on here, would not occur there. Wagoner of GM fame for example, he wouldn't have gotten a pension. He would have been begging for his life for stiffing all the lenders. And he would have been executed as a mercy act. -- Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money. China's legal system not corrupt???? Yeah, those show trials are just for our benefit. They're really humanitarians deep down. Would I say no corruption, never. But do they transfer private corporation debt to taxpayers and bailout losers... Nope. You get caught swindling over there, no pensions like Wagoner got. In China Wagoner would have likely been shot for operating a company fraudulantly. Humanitarianism against corruption does not work. -- Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money. |
Well, what did you expect?
On 08/04/2010 7:19 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/8/10 8:03 AM, thunder wrote: On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:58:54 -0600, Canuck57 wrote: Agreed. Going for the little guy is stupid. Even though that is what will happen. Get the CEO, make him personally pay out of his own pocket $20,000,000 to the families without being re-imbursed by the company. And the company match the payout to the families for another $20,000,000. If they complain, double it. If they still want to fight it, lay down criminal negligence carges on top of it with jail time for the senior executives and board members. Then there will be progress. Or learn from the Chinese, and execute the CEOs. Fines just don't cut it, when 25 are dead. Well, I don't favor the death penalty, but...serious criminal penalties (as in prison terms), heavy fines against personal assets, et cetera, especially for notoriously bad apples like the CEO of the mining company under discussion, would suffice. I'd said one year in prison doing hard time for each worker killed, plus a million dollar penalty paid to each of the families, would be appropriate. There are always going to be deaths and serious injuries in connection with dangerous work, like mining, construction, et cetera. *Responsible* business executives take the steps necessary to minimize those risks. The irresponsible should be prosecuted and penalized. Ordinarily I think death penalties should be used with reserve. But there are people bad enough where reclaim is too risky. Generally wanton crimes, drug smuggling, pedofile rape/murder, and those types of crimes that are not accidents... -- Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money. |
Well, what did you expect?
"Canuck57" wrote in message
... On 08/04/2010 11:31 AM, nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message ... On 08/04/2010 6:03 AM, thunder wrote: On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:58:54 -0600, Canuck57 wrote: Agreed. Going for the little guy is stupid. Even though that is what will happen. Get the CEO, make him personally pay out of his own pocket $20,000,000 to the families without being re-imbursed by the company. And the company match the payout to the families for another $20,000,000. If they complain, double it. If they still want to fight it, lay down criminal negligence carges on top of it with jail time for the senior executives and board members. Then there will be progress. Or learn from the Chinese, and execute the CEOs. Fines just don't cut it, when 25 are dead. True. One think I will say about Chinese justice, it is harsh and not corrupt. The crap that goes on here, would not occur there. Wagoner of GM fame for example, he wouldn't have gotten a pension. He would have been begging for his life for stiffing all the lenders. And he would have been executed as a mercy act. -- Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money. China's legal system not corrupt???? Yeah, those show trials are just for our benefit. They're really humanitarians deep down. Would I say no corruption, never. But do they transfer private corporation debt to taxpayers and bailout losers... Nope. You get caught swindling over there, no pensions like Wagoner got. In China Wagoner would have likely been shot for operating a company fraudulantly. Well, in that case you'll be welcomed with open arms. I suggest you move immediately. You're an idiot though, and they don't tolerate loudmouthed idiots. Humanitarianism against corruption does not work. What does this have to do with anything? I'm sure somewhere in your squirrel brain it does, but it's non-obvious. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Well, what did you expect?
On Apr 8, 7:00*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Canuck57" wrote in message ... On 08/04/2010 11:31 AM, nom=de=plume wrote: *wrote in message ... On 08/04/2010 6:03 AM, thunder wrote: On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:58:54 -0600, Canuck57 wrote: Agreed. *Going for the little guy is stupid. *Even though that is what will happen. Get the CEO, make him personally pay out of his own pocket $20,000,000 to the families without being re-imbursed by the company. *And the company match the payout to the families for another $20,000,000. If they complain, double it. If they still want to fight it, lay down criminal negligence carges on top of it with jail time for the senior executives and board members. Then there will be progress. Or learn from the Chinese, and execute the CEOs. *Fines just don't cut it, when 25 are dead. True. *One think I will say about Chinese justice, it is harsh and not corrupt. *The crap that goes on here, would not occur there. *Wagoner of GM fame for example, he wouldn't have gotten a pension. *He would have been begging for his life for stiffing all the lenders. *And he would have been executed as a mercy act. -- Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money. China's legal system not corrupt???? Yeah, those show trials are just for our benefit. They're really humanitarians deep down. Would I say no corruption, never. *But do they transfer private corporation debt to taxpayers and bailout losers... Nope. *You get caught swindling over there, no pensions like Wagoner got. *In China Wagoner would have likely been shot for operating a company fraudulantly. Well, in that case you'll be welcomed with open arms. I suggest you move immediately. You're an idiot though, and they don't tolerate loudmouthed idiots. Humanitarianism against corruption does not work. What does this have to do with anything? I'm sure somewhere in your squirrel brain it does, but it's non-obvious. -- Nom=de=Plume Quote: "You haven't added anything, and you're attempted put down was what's dumb" -- Nom=de=Plume |
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