On 04/04/2010 7:30 PM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
m...
On 4/4/10 9:05 PM, Frogwatch wrote:
I have done just what this administration has encouraged me to do, I
have eliminated employees. It simply is no longer worth having them
when the amount of paperwork and worry over all the govt forms is so
great so you just outsource everything.


You've eliminated employees because you don't have any work for them to
do. Period.



It's not 100 percent Obama. His policies are simply starting to dot the
"i"s and cross the "t"s in a change that has been taking place and
accelerating for the past 15-20 years.

Yes, but unproductive changes. Not much positive for the little
businesses, just payroll complexity costs lowering wages that can be paid.

Small business used to find anything for employees to do during slow periods
in order to avoid layoffs.

Yes, especially the good ones. You will willingly and knownly take some
loses to retain them. But it only works to a point. Slap another
$2000+++ a year in what ammounts to employment taxes, employees already
ticked because their costs are going up, no wiggle room in the budget,
easier just to let go.

I can remember painting walls, washing trucks, etc. and did the same when I
operated a company on my own. Large businesses typically had layoffs, not
the small ones.

The old way. It as good while it lasted. But that existed because of
the lower complexities of starting a business back then. Even cities
are getting all horned up on license/taxes. Saw one small business guy
get a $600 fine as one of his didn't have a city license even though his
business did. Stupid as all they were doing was cutting hair.

Maybe someday someone in governemnt will come up with the brilliant idea
that all this non-value added BS is killing innovation, killing small
business and just screwing people out of wealth.

Government hasn't realized a wealthy middle class is more taxes, the
only way out. Can't fix the middle class and small businesses, you
might as well toss in the towel.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

On Apr 5, 1:47*pm, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 7:30 PM, Eisboch wrote:



*wrote in message
om...
On 4/4/10 9:05 PM, Frogwatch wrote:
I have done just what this administration has encouraged me to do, I
have eliminated employees. *It simply is no longer worth having them
when the amount of paperwork and worry over all the govt forms is so
great so you just outsource everything.

You've eliminated employees because you don't have any work for them to
do. Period.

It's not 100 percent Obama. *His policies are simply starting to dot the
"i"s and cross the "t"s in a change that has been taking place and
accelerating for the past 15-20 years.

Yes, but unproductive changes. *Not much positive for the little
businesses, just payroll complexity costs lowering wages that can be paid..

Small business used to find anything for employees to do during slow periods
in order to avoid layoffs.

Yes, especially the good ones. *You will willingly and knownly take some
loses to retain them. *But it only works to a point. *Slap another
$2000+++ a year in what ammounts to employment taxes, employees already
ticked because their costs are going up, no wiggle room in the budget,
easier just to let go.

I can remember painting walls, washing trucks, etc. and did the same when I
operated a company on my own. * Large businesses typically had layoffs, not
the small ones.

The old way. *It as good while it lasted. *But that existed because of
the lower complexities of starting a business back then. *Even cities
are getting all horned up on license/taxes. *Saw one small business guy
get a $600 fine as one of his didn't have a city license even though his
business did. *Stupid as all they were doing was cutting hair.

Maybe someday someone in governemnt will come up with the brilliant idea
that all this non-value added BS is killing innovation, killing small
business and just screwing people out of wealth.

Government hasn't realized a wealthy middle class is more taxes, the
only way out. *Can't fix the middle class and small businesses, you
might as well toss in the towel.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

It is not yet the level of taxation to which I object, it is the
simple fact that I spend so much time dealing with govt crap in
relation to employees. The paperwork is bizarro and costs me huge
amounts of time. Independent contractors cost far less time. I can
actually make more net money and have fewer dealings with the govt
simply by working this way. Why get stressed out over govt paperwork
when I can simply hand the independents a 1099 form and be done with
it. You guys who voted for this can make jobs (Fat chance) and I will
simply collect royalties and license fees.
I used to feel good about providing high paying high tech jobs in a
place where such do not normally exist but by making the paperwork and
penalties for messing up the paperwork so high you have taken all
incentive out of job creation. I no longer feel the slightest
interest in creating jobs for others, been there, done that and was
punished for it.

On 4/5/10 1:55 PM, Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 5, 1:47 pm, wrote:
On 04/04/2010 7:30 PM, Eisboch wrote:



wrote in message
m...
On 4/4/10 9:05 PM, Frogwatch wrote:
I have done just what this administration has encouraged me to do, I
have eliminated employees. It simply is no longer worth having them
when the amount of paperwork and worry over all the govt forms is so
great so you just outsource everything.

You've eliminated employees because you don't have any work for them to
do. Period.

It's not 100 percent Obama. His policies are simply starting to dot the
"i"s and cross the "t"s in a change that has been taking place and
accelerating for the past 15-20 years.

Yes, but unproductive changes. Not much positive for the little
businesses, just payroll complexity costs lowering wages that can be paid.

Small business used to find anything for employees to do during slow periods
in order to avoid layoffs.

Yes, especially the good ones. You will willingly and knownly take some
loses to retain them. But it only works to a point. Slap another
$2000+++ a year in what ammounts to employment taxes, employees already
ticked because their costs are going up, no wiggle room in the budget,
easier just to let go.

I can remember painting walls, washing trucks, etc. and did the same when I
operated a company on my own. Large businesses typically had layoffs, not
the small ones.

The old way. It as good while it lasted. But that existed because of
the lower complexities of starting a business back then. Even cities
are getting all horned up on license/taxes. Saw one small business guy
get a $600 fine as one of his didn't have a city license even though his
business did. Stupid as all they were doing was cutting hair.

Maybe someday someone in governemnt will come up with the brilliant idea
that all this non-value added BS is killing innovation, killing small
business and just screwing people out of wealth.

Government hasn't realized a wealthy middle class is more taxes, the
only way out. Can't fix the middle class and small businesses, you
might as well toss in the towel.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

It is not yet the level of taxation to which I object, it is the
simple fact that I spend so much time dealing with govt crap in
relation to employees. The paperwork is bizarro and costs me huge
amounts of time. Independent contractors cost far less time. I can
actually make more net money and have fewer dealings with the govt
simply by working this way. Why get stressed out over govt paperwork
when I can simply hand the independents a 1099 form and be done with
it. You guys who voted for this can make jobs (Fat chance) and I will
simply collect royalties and license fees.
I used to feel good about providing high paying high tech jobs in a
place where such do not normally exist but by making the paperwork and
penalties for messing up the paperwork so high you have taken all
incentive out of job creation. I no longer feel the slightest
interest in creating jobs for others, been there, done that and was
punished for it.


So, you are unable to bring in new contracts, and this is how you are
rationalizing it, eh?

snerk

--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 5, 1:47 pm, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 7:30 PM, Eisboch wrote:



wrote in message
om...
On 4/4/10 9:05 PM, Frogwatch wrote:
I have done just what this administration has encouraged me to do, I
have eliminated employees. It simply is no longer worth having them
when the amount of paperwork and worry over all the govt forms is so
great so you just outsource everything.

You've eliminated employees because you don't have any work for them to
do. Period.

It's not 100 percent Obama. His policies are simply starting to dot the
"i"s and cross the "t"s in a change that has been taking place and
accelerating for the past 15-20 years.

Yes, but unproductive changes. Not much positive for the little
businesses, just payroll complexity costs lowering wages that can be paid.

Small business used to find anything for employees to do during slow
periods
in order to avoid layoffs.

Yes, especially the good ones. You will willingly and knownly take some
loses to retain them. But it only works to a point. Slap another
$2000+++ a year in what ammounts to employment taxes, employees already
ticked because their costs are going up, no wiggle room in the budget,
easier just to let go.

I can remember painting walls, washing trucks, etc. and did the same
when I
operated a company on my own. Large businesses typically had layoffs,
not
the small ones.

The old way. It as good while it lasted. But that existed because of
the lower complexities of starting a business back then. Even cities
are getting all horned up on license/taxes. Saw one small business guy
get a $600 fine as one of his didn't have a city license even though his
business did. Stupid as all they were doing was cutting hair.

Maybe someday someone in governemnt will come up with the brilliant idea
that all this non-value added BS is killing innovation, killing small
business and just screwing people out of wealth.

Government hasn't realized a wealthy middle class is more taxes, the
only way out. Can't fix the middle class and small businesses, you
might as well toss in the towel.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

It is not yet the level of taxation to which I object, it is the
simple fact that I spend so much time dealing with govt crap in
relation to employees. The paperwork is bizarro and costs me huge
amounts of time. Independent contractors cost far less time. I can
actually make more net money and have fewer dealings with the govt
simply by working this way. Why get stressed out over govt paperwork
when I can simply hand the independents a 1099 form and be done with
it. You guys who voted for this can make jobs (Fat chance) and I will
simply collect royalties and license fees.
I used to feel good about providing high paying high tech jobs in a
place where such do not normally exist but by making the paperwork and
penalties for messing up the paperwork so high you have taken all
incentive out of job creation. I no longer feel the slightest
interest in creating jobs for others, been there, done that and was
punished for it.


Reply: Sounds like your business is having problems. Too bad. sorry for your
trouble.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 04/04/2010 7:30 PM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
m...
On 4/4/10 9:05 PM, Frogwatch wrote:
I have done just what this administration has encouraged me to do, I
have eliminated employees. It simply is no longer worth having them
when the amount of paperwork and worry over all the govt forms is so
great so you just outsource everything.


You've eliminated employees because you don't have any work for them to
do. Period.



It's not 100 percent Obama. His policies are simply starting to dot the
"i"s and cross the "t"s in a change that has been taking place and
accelerating for the past 15-20 years.

Yes, but unproductive changes. Not much positive for the little
businesses, just payroll complexity costs lowering wages that can be paid.

Small business used to find anything for employees to do during slow
periods
in order to avoid layoffs.

Yes, especially the good ones. You will willingly and knownly take some
loses to retain them. But it only works to a point. Slap another
$2000+++ a year in what ammounts to employment taxes, employees already
ticked because their costs are going up, no wiggle room in the budget,
easier just to let go.

I can remember painting walls, washing trucks, etc. and did the same when
I
operated a company on my own. Large businesses typically had layoffs,
not
the small ones.

The old way. It as good while it lasted. But that existed because of the
lower complexities of starting a business back then. Even cities are
getting all horned up on license/taxes. Saw one small business guy get a
$600 fine as one of his didn't have a city license even though his
business did. Stupid as all they were doing was cutting hair.

Maybe someday someone in governemnt will come up with the brilliant idea
that all this non-value added BS is killing innovation, killing small
business and just screwing people out of wealth.

Government hasn't realized a wealthy middle class is more taxes, the only
way out. Can't fix the middle class and small businesses, you might as
well toss in the towel.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.


Yes, you're an idiot.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 18:05:39 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have done just what this administration has encouraged me to do, I
have eliminated employees.

george bush took care of that in 2007 when he laid the groundwork for
10% unemployment as he bankrolled the rich


This is the economy of the Obama
years.

unemployment is down 10% under obama. your delusions notwithstanding

No worries about health plans, no worries about workers comp,
pensions, etc, I am free to use my mind to invent instead of doing
govt paperwork. Thank You Mr Obama.

more hatred of the black president? seems you guys think he's been
president for 9 years

Jobs? What about Jobs? Those are your problem since you voted for
him.

the 165,000 created last month. those are the jobs

we can do without the few you elminated because obama's created 1.5M
over the last year

On 04/04/2010 7:58 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 18:05:39 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have done just what this administration has encouraged me to do, I
have eliminated employees.

george bush took care of that in 2007 when he laid the groundwork for
10% unemployment as he bankrolled the rich


This is the economy of the Obama
years.

unemployment is down 10% under obama. your delusions notwithstanding

No worries about health plans, no worries about workers comp,
pensions, etc, I am free to use my mind to invent instead of doing
govt paperwork. Thank You Mr Obama.

more hatred of the black president? seems you guys think he's been
president for 9 years

Jobs? What about Jobs? Those are your problem since you voted for
him.

the 165,000 created last month. those are the jobs

we can do without the few you elminated because obama's created 1.5M
over the last year


I will say you are an optimist, but the sad fact is this month numbers
were neutral. So what if you create 165,000 low wage part time jobs to
replace the 165,000 lost better jobs?

Doubtful the governemtn would not want to quote a real number like net
national wages for the month.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 04/04/2010 7:58 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 18:05:39 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have done just what this administration has encouraged me to do, I
have eliminated employees.

george bush took care of that in 2007 when he laid the groundwork for
10% unemployment as he bankrolled the rich


This is the economy of the Obama
years.

unemployment is down 10% under obama. your delusions notwithstanding

No worries about health plans, no worries about workers comp,
pensions, etc, I am free to use my mind to invent instead of doing
govt paperwork. Thank You Mr Obama.

more hatred of the black president? seems you guys think he's been
president for 9 years

Jobs? What about Jobs? Those are your problem since you voted for
him.

the 165,000 created last month. those are the jobs

we can do without the few you elminated because obama's created 1.5M
over the last year


I will say you are an optimist, but the sad fact is this month numbers
were neutral. So what if you create 165,000 low wage part time jobs to
replace the 165,000 lost better jobs?

Doubtful the governemtn would not want to quote a real number like net
national wages for the month.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.


Neutral? Oh, I thought you said you were neutered. My mistake. Compare job
growth/loss to GWB's stunning work.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 11:55:10 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 04/04/2010 7:58 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 18:05:39 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch


we can do without the few you elminated because obama's created 1.5M
over the last year


I will say you are an optimist, but the sad fact is this month numbers
were neutral. So what if you create 165,000 low wage part time jobs to
replace the 165,000 lost better jobs?

i'm not the optimist; economists are, including those at the AEI.
hardly a liberal think tank

and a job is better than welfare

bpuharic wrote:
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 18:05:39 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:


I have done just what this administration has encouraged me to do, I
have eliminated employees.

george bush took care of that in 2007 when he laid the groundwork for
10% unemployment as he bankrolled the rich



This is the economy of the Obama
years.

unemployment is down 10% under obama. your delusions notwithstanding


No worries about health plans, no worries about workers comp,
pensions, etc, I am free to use my mind to invent instead of doing
govt paperwork. Thank You Mr Obama.

more hatred of the black president? seems you guys think he's been
president for 9 years


Jobs? What about Jobs? Those are your problem since you voted for
him.

the 165,000 created last month. those are the jobs

we can do without the few you elminated because obama's created 1.5M
over the last year


Where do you get your news? There isn't a single fact here. Start with
job "creation". That's my favorite!