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Question about trim tabs
On Apr 1, 9:03*am, Tim wrote:
On Apr 1, 6:58*am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Apr 1, 7:11 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 31, 7:11 pm, Larry wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 6:32 pm, *wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 8:42 am, * *wrote: * *wrote in message .... There's an old saying at a local high performance engine shop that says "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" And I know the old rule usually applies "you get what you pay for? Well for the few times I've taken my marquis out it's interesting to get it up on plane. first , if you ease the throttle, you'll do a wheelie to where you think the boat will flip over backwards and you do little but plow water , so you have to nail it and you still get an extreme bow rise but it settles down and know you're going, but you still have to keep the RPM up above 2800 or the boat wants to drag back. So I'm investigating trim tabs. There's all kinds on the market anywhere from sophisticated hydraulic and independently controlled units ranging up to around $500.00 all the way down to the spring loaded sets that that are available for around a hundred bucks. I'm sure that trim tabs would help the boating experience, but *I'm really wondering how much trim control I'm actually needing. to make a more efficient ride and run. I'm constantly accused of being 'tight' but I'm not THAT tight, because I know that money spent in the right direction will save in fuel and ride in the longer run. But over kill is still overkill. This is a 23 ft. V-hull Marquis with a 350 GM engine and not some 3000 hp. 40 ft. Fountain off shore racer. So, anyone have any suggestions? Tim, My father had hydraulic trim tabs on his 22 ft. Apollo back in the day, they were very useful for the application that you are referring. They are also very helpful if you have an offset in the load, you can equalize easily with the trim tabs. For little investment, you might also try one of the following first. *I have no experience on larger boats, however I know they work well on smaller run abouts in the 16 to 18 ft. range. There are several other manufactures on the market besides this one. http://www.davisnet.com/MARINE/produ...asp?pnum=00448 JT- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks JT. I do have a fin on the lower end, though Forget the spring -loaded tabs. *They will always add drag. If your fin is anything like the one I had on my old bowrider, it has an odd effect on the cornering. *I took mine off. Try this: *Don't ease the throttle, open it up. *Just as the bow begins to lower, back off on the throttle until you have it where you want to be. *If that still takes too long, you can play with prop size, pitch, cupping and venting. *When you get your desired result, you will may lose some top end speed. *Prop selection is a PITA for most boat owners.. Larry, that's what I do with my smaller boat and it hole shots quite well. The big tub? it drags and plows until it decides to get up and running. I dont' know, maybe I'm asking too much of the take off performance on the big one, but I don't *think so. Something is amiss (maybe me!) and I'll have to experiment around with it for a while I suppose. Are the carbs clean? Oh yes. It runs very well. starts easily, and throttles up without a cough. I'm sure you have heard the old saw "There's no replacement for displacement" If your engine isn't big enough, there is no magic pill to make it perform like a racehorse. Also here are some easy checks for performance killers other than trim and prop sizing. You probably have already checked these items, but just in case, let's review. Is the boat waterlogged? Weigh it to find out. Is there hook or rocker on the boat bottom? A quick eyeball will tell you. Is there something preventing the throttle plates from opening? Cable adjustment etc. Are the secondaries working? Is static timing somewhere between 6 and 10 degrees? Does the distributer have mechanical advance? Is it working? Longshot: Might the coil be breaking down or a plug wire arcing. You would notice that right away though. The boat is fine. the engine is fine. The problem is that it doesn't plane outto what Iwodl expect, but then again, I'm used to a smaller , lighter 18ft. craft with a 14 hp 4 cyl engine. Now we're talking about a high sided heavy, 23 ft small cuddie boat with a 228 hp 350 GM mercruiser. Sure an elephant isn't going to give stallion performance, that is if that's what your looking for, but a stallion isn't going to carry an extra half ton of people and stuff , and give a great ride with lots of stability either. the boat does have the performance, it just the planing is a bit of an issue, and I have no experience with trim tabs but have 'heard' they can help with performance, planing speed, and economy. That's why all the questions about them. One more question. Assuming you can get it to plane, what is the observed wide open throttle RPM. And please do get the boat weighed separately from the trailer. Lots of older boats suffer from that malady.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Once you nail the throttle and the nose shoots for the moon I'd say you're planing in a few but up to 5 seconds. then the nosed drops down and you can back to the throttle down to about to 1800 rpm before it stalls. Weight the boat seperately woudl really be a chore. aand I dont' know of any practical way on how to do that around ehre, unless you weighe the combination, then launched the boat then took the trailer some where and weighed it seperately. *I believe the hull is in fine shape thoght at least from what I can tell.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yea, I agree. I've always wished I could weigh my trailer boat but it would be a huge chore. 5 seconds of bow rise is not bad at all for a boat that size. I've seen some underpowered cruisers that go for like a minute or more with the bow in the air trying to get on plane. 23' is in range to have a small block engine and get reasonable performance. Cruising down to under 2k rpm is pretty durn good as well. The problem is when you get up to the 27'-29' range and they are still putting a small block in them to keep the price down. Those "automatic" tabs and doel fins are generally a disappointment. If you are going to get tabs, get real operator controlled tabs. But they will be expensive so make sure you really want them. |
Question about trim tabs
Tim wrote:
On Apr 1, 6:58 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Apr 1, 7:11 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 31, 7:11 pm, Larry wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 6:32 pm, wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 8:42 am, wrote: wrote in message .... There's an old saying at a local high performance engine shop that says "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" And I know the old rule usually applies "you get what you pay for? Well for the few times I've taken my marquis out it's interesting to get it up on plane. first , if you ease the throttle, you'll do a wheelie to where you think the boat will flip over backwards and you do little but plow water , so you have to nail it and you still get an extreme bow rise but it settles down and know you're going, but you still have to keep the RPM up above 2800 or the boat wants to drag back. So I'm investigating trim tabs. There's all kinds on the market anywhere from sophisticated hydraulic and independently controlled units ranging up to around $500.00 all the way down to the spring loaded sets that that are available for around a hundred bucks. I'm sure that trim tabs would help the boating experience, but I'm really wondering how much trim control I'm actually needing. to make a more efficient ride and run. I'm constantly accused of being 'tight' but I'm not THAT tight, because I know that money spent in the right direction will save in fuel and ride in the longer run. But over kill is still overkill. This is a 23 ft. V-hull Marquis with a 350 GM engine and not some 3000 hp. 40 ft. Fountain off shore racer. So, anyone have any suggestions? Tim, My father had hydraulic trim tabs on his 22 ft. Apollo back in the day, they were very useful for the application that you are referring. They are also very helpful if you have an offset in the load, you can equalize easily with the trim tabs. For little investment, you might also try one of the following first. I have no experience on larger boats, however I know they work well on smaller run abouts in the 16 to 18 ft. range. There are several other manufactures on the market besides this one. http://www.davisnet.com/MARINE/produ...asp?pnum=00448 JT- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks JT. I do have a fin on the lower end, though Forget the spring -loaded tabs. They will always add drag. If your fin is anything like the one I had on my old bowrider, it has an odd effect on the cornering. I took mine off. Try this: Don't ease the throttle, open it up. Just as the bow begins to lower, back off on the throttle until you have it where you want to be. If that still takes too long, you can play with prop size, pitch, cupping and venting. When you get your desired result, you will may lose some top end speed. Prop selection is a PITA for most boat owners.. Larry, that's what I do with my smaller boat and it hole shots quite well. The big tub? it drags and plows until it decides to get up and running. I dont' know, maybe I'm asking too much of the take off performance on the big one, but I don't think so. Something is amiss (maybe me!) and I'll have to experiment around with it for a while I suppose. Are the carbs clean? Oh yes. It runs very well. starts easily, and throttles up without a cough. I'm sure you have heard the old saw "There's no replacement for displacement" If your engine isn't big enough, there is no magic pill to make it perform like a racehorse. Also here are some easy checks for performance killers other than trim and prop sizing. You probably have already checked these items, but just in case, let's review. Is the boat waterlogged? Weigh it to find out. Is there hook or rocker on the boat bottom? A quick eyeball will tell you. Is there something preventing the throttle plates from opening? Cable adjustment etc. Are the secondaries working? Is static timing somewhere between 6 and 10 degrees? Does the distributer have mechanical advance? Is it working? Longshot: Might the coil be breaking down or a plug wire arcing. You would notice that right away though. The boat is fine. the engine is fine. The problem is that it doesn't plane outto what Iwodl expect, but then again, I'm used to a smaller , lighter 18ft. craft with a 14 hp 4 cyl engine. Now we're talking about a high sided heavy, 23 ft small cuddie boat with a 228 hp 350 GM mercruiser. Sure an elephant isn't going to give stallion performance, that is if that's what your looking for, but a stallion isn't going to carry an extra half ton of people and stuff , and give a great ride with lots of stability either. the boat does have the performance, it just the planing is a bit of an issue, and I have no experience with trim tabs but have 'heard' they can help with performance, planing speed, and economy. That's why all the questions about them. One more question. Assuming you can get it to plane, what is the observed wide open throttle RPM. And please do get the boat weighed separately from the trailer. Lots of older boats suffer from that malady.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Once you nail the throttle and the nose shoots for the moon I'd say you're planing in a few but up to 5 seconds. then the nosed drops down and you can back to the throttle down to about to 1800 rpm before it stalls. Weight the boat seperately woudl really be a chore. aand I dont' know of any practical way on how to do that around ehre, unless you weighe the combination, then launched the boat then took the trailer some where and weighed it seperately. I believe the hull is in fine shape thoght at least from what I can tell. Bow rise before coming on plane is normal so is barely staying on plane at 1800 RPM. but shooting for the moon is not normal. Knowing your WOT RPM is a good thing to know and so is your boat's weight. You need the combo weight to determine what you need for tires. You probably have a tandem trailor. Correct? |
Question about trim tabs
On Mar 31, 4:25*pm, Tim wrote:
On Mar 31, 1:43*pm, jamesgangnc wrote: *The bennett pump is a smaller pump that is horizontal on top of a little resevoir. *So the electrical motor in it got submerged. *I didn't really know it had a problem till a month or so later when it stopped working reliably and I took it apart to find a lot of corrosion in the motor. *So it was not bennetts fault by any means. *I should have disassembled the bennett pump right away.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I used to see that a lot on Johnson/Evinrude power trim pumps. Which were externally mounted and prone to water logging. People would park their boat for the winter then wonder why the trim motor wouldn't work the next year, and regardless on how you tried to clean them out, those old prestolite motors were nye-on to worthless by then. Nothing that money couldn't cure. I did manage to fix this one. And that was 3 years ago and it's still running so my fix "took". But generally you're right, these small electrical motors get and stay wet for any length of time and they are usually scrap. I wanted bennett to just sell me the motor since the hydralic part was fine. They only sell the entire pump as a replacement and it was almost $400. That was enough incentive for me to spend a little more time fixing the motor. Puttting the pump half back on it was another chore as it did not have any guide pins and would bind easily if it was not in exactly the right spot. I ended up attaching it just slightly snug, running the motor and then tightening the bolts the rest of the way. I think the poor pump to motor attachment was why they didn't sell either half individually. I also had the joystick style control wear out on me. The current slowly softened the plastic around the contacts until they sank too far to work. I replaced it with an ordinary dpdt spring return toggle. I don't use the side to side adjustment so having both tabs go up and down together was not an issue for me. Mind you I've had these tabs for about 15 years now so I can't really complain. |
Question about trim tabs
On Apr 1, 8:18*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Apr 1, 9:03*am, Tim wrote: On Apr 1, 6:58*am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Apr 1, 7:11 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 31, 7:11 pm, Larry wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 6:32 pm, *wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 8:42 am, * *wrote: * *wrote in message .... There's an old saying at a local high performance engine shop that says "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" And I know the old rule usually applies "you get what you pay for? Well for the few times I've taken my marquis out it's interesting to get it up on plane. first , if you ease the throttle, you'll do a wheelie to where you think the boat will flip over backwards and you do little but plow water , so you have to nail it and you still get an extreme bow rise but it settles down and know you're going, but you still have to keep the RPM up above 2800 or the boat wants to drag back. So I'm investigating trim tabs. There's all kinds on the market anywhere from sophisticated hydraulic and independently controlled units ranging up to around $500.00 all the way down to the spring loaded sets that that are available for around a hundred bucks. I'm sure that trim tabs would help the boating experience, but *I'm really wondering how much trim control I'm actually needing. to make a more efficient ride and run. I'm constantly accused of being 'tight' but I'm not THAT tight, because I know that money spent in the right direction will save in fuel and ride in the longer run. But over kill is still overkill. This is a 23 ft. V-hull Marquis with a 350 GM engine and not some 3000 hp. 40 ft. Fountain off shore racer. So, anyone have any suggestions? Tim, My father had hydraulic trim tabs on his 22 ft. Apollo back in the day, they were very useful for the application that you are referring. They are also very helpful if you have an offset in the load, you can equalize easily with the trim tabs. For little investment, you might also try one of the following first. *I have no experience on larger boats, however I know they work well on smaller run abouts in the 16 to 18 ft. range. There are several other manufactures on the market besides this one. http://www.davisnet.com/MARINE/produ...asp?pnum=00448 JT- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks JT. I do have a fin on the lower end, though Forget the spring -loaded tabs. *They will always add drag. If your fin is anything like the one I had on my old bowrider, it has an odd effect on the cornering. *I took mine off. Try this: *Don't ease the throttle, open it up. *Just as the bow begins to lower, back off on the throttle until you have it where you want to be. *If that still takes too long, you can play with prop size, pitch, cupping and venting. *When you get your desired result, you will may lose some top end speed. *Prop selection is a PITA for most boat owners.. Larry, that's what I do with my smaller boat and it hole shots quite well. The big tub? it drags and plows until it decides to get up and running. I dont' know, maybe I'm asking too much of the take off performance on the big one, but I don't *think so. Something is amiss (maybe me!) and I'll have to experiment around with it for a while I suppose. Are the carbs clean? Oh yes. It runs very well. starts easily, and throttles up without a cough. I'm sure you have heard the old saw "There's no replacement for displacement" If your engine isn't big enough, there is no magic pill to make it perform like a racehorse. Also here are some easy checks for performance killers other than trim and prop sizing. You probably have already checked these items, but just in case, let's review. Is the boat waterlogged? Weigh it to find out. Is there hook or rocker on the boat bottom? A quick eyeball will tell you. Is there something preventing the throttle plates from opening? Cable adjustment etc. Are the secondaries working? Is static timing somewhere between 6 and 10 degrees? Does the distributer have mechanical advance? Is it working? Longshot: Might the coil be breaking down or a plug wire arcing. You would notice that right away though. The boat is fine. the engine is fine. The problem is that it doesn't plane outto what Iwodl expect, but then again, I'm used to a smaller , lighter 18ft. craft with a 14 hp 4 cyl engine. Now we're talking about a high sided heavy, 23 ft small cuddie boat with a 228 hp 350 GM mercruiser. Sure an elephant isn't going to give stallion performance, that is if that's what your looking for, but a stallion isn't going to carry an extra half ton of people and stuff , and give a great ride with lots of stability either. the boat does have the performance, it just the planing is a bit of an issue, and I have no experience with trim tabs but have 'heard' they can help with performance, planing speed, and economy. That's why all the questions about them. One more question. Assuming you can get it to plane, what is the observed wide open throttle RPM. And please do get the boat weighed separately from the trailer. Lots of older boats suffer from that malady.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Once you nail the throttle and the nose shoots for the moon I'd say you're planing in a few but up to 5 seconds. then the nosed drops down and you can back to the throttle down to about to 1800 rpm before it stalls. Weight the boat seperately woudl really be a chore. aand I dont' know of any practical way on how to do that around ehre, unless you weighe the combination, then launched the boat then took the trailer some where and weighed it seperately. *I believe the hull is in fine shape thoght at least from what I can tell.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yea, I agree. *I've always wished I could weigh my trailer boat but it would be a huge chore. 5 seconds of bow rise is not bad at all for a boat that size. *I've seen some underpowered cruisers that go for like a minute or more with the bow in the air trying to get on plane. *23' is in range to have a small block engine and get reasonable performance. *Cruising down to under 2k rpm is pretty durn good as well. *The problem is when you get up to the 27'-29' range and they are still putting a small block in them to keep the price down. Those "automatic" tabs and doel fins are generally a disappointment. If you are going to get tabs, get real operator controlled tabs. *But they will be expensive so make sure you really want them.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I ahve a fin on boat boats, and on the smaller one it does help to keep the bow from humping when you have the prop up for a good bow rise. On the bigger I dont' knwo if it really helps that much or not, because the bow doesn't rise and slap down like one would think. I will say thins, that the 23 when up to speed will fly for it's respective size and handles amazingly well. Same way with the old 27 foot wooden chris craft. that 283 worked it's butt off to get the beast into plane but when you got there it was a great ride. But then again, that small block was running around 3500 rpm too. But wow the exhaust notes spoke with authority! I'm just trying to get things lined out for more efficiency. |
Question about trim tabs
On Apr 1, 8:22*am, anon-e-moose wrote:
Tim wrote: On Apr 1, 6:58 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Apr 1, 7:11 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 31, 7:11 pm, Larry wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 6:32 pm, *wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 8:42 am, * *wrote: * *wrote in message .... There's an old saying at a local high performance engine shop that says "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" And I know the old rule usually applies "you get what you pay for? Well for the few times I've taken my marquis out it's interesting to get it up on plane. first , if you ease the throttle, you'll do a wheelie to where you think the boat will flip over backwards and you do little but plow water , so you have to nail it and you still get an extreme bow rise but it settles down and know you're going, but you still have to keep the RPM up above 2800 or the boat wants to drag back. So I'm investigating trim tabs. There's all kinds on the market anywhere from sophisticated hydraulic and independently controlled units ranging up to around $500.00 all the way down to the spring loaded sets that that are available for around a hundred bucks. I'm sure that trim tabs would help the boating experience, but *I'm really wondering how much trim control I'm actually needing. to make a more efficient ride and run. I'm constantly accused of being 'tight' but I'm not THAT tight, because I know that money spent in the right direction will save in fuel and ride in the longer run. But over kill is still overkill. This is a 23 ft. V-hull Marquis with a 350 GM engine and not some 3000 hp. 40 ft. Fountain off shore racer. So, anyone have any suggestions? Tim, My father had hydraulic trim tabs on his 22 ft. Apollo back in the day, they were very useful for the application that you are referring. They are also very helpful if you have an offset in the load, you can equalize easily with the trim tabs. For little investment, you might also try one of the following first. *I have no experience on larger boats, however I know they work well on smaller run abouts in the 16 to 18 ft. range. There are several other manufactures on the market besides this one. http://www.davisnet.com/MARINE/produ...asp?pnum=00448 JT- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks JT. I do have a fin on the lower end, though Forget the spring -loaded tabs. *They will always add drag. If your fin is anything like the one I had on my old bowrider, it has an odd effect on the cornering. *I took mine off. Try this: *Don't ease the throttle, open it up. *Just as the bow begins to lower, back off on the throttle until you have it where you want to be. *If that still takes too long, you can play with prop size, pitch, cupping and venting. *When you get your desired result, you will may lose some top end speed. *Prop selection is a PITA for most boat owners.. Larry, that's what I do with my smaller boat and it hole shots quite well. The big tub? it drags and plows until it decides to get up and running. I dont' know, maybe I'm asking too much of the take off performance on the big one, but I don't *think so. Something is amiss (maybe me!) and I'll have to experiment around with it for a while I suppose. Are the carbs clean? Oh yes. It runs very well. starts easily, and throttles up without a cough. I'm sure you have heard the old saw "There's no replacement for displacement" If your engine isn't big enough, there is no magic pill to make it perform like a racehorse. Also here are some easy checks for performance killers other than trim and prop sizing. You probably have already checked these items, but just in case, let's review. Is the boat waterlogged? Weigh it to find out. Is there hook or rocker on the boat bottom? A quick eyeball will tell you. Is there something preventing the throttle plates from opening? Cable adjustment etc. Are the secondaries working? Is static timing somewhere between 6 and 10 degrees? Does the distributer have mechanical advance? Is it working? Longshot: Might the coil be breaking down or a plug wire arcing. You would notice that right away though. The boat is fine. the engine is fine. The problem is that it doesn't plane outto what Iwodl expect, but then again, I'm used to a smaller , lighter 18ft. craft with a 14 hp 4 cyl engine. Now we're talking about a high sided heavy, 23 ft small cuddie boat with a 228 hp 350 GM mercruiser. Sure an elephant isn't going to give stallion performance, that is if that's what your looking for, but a stallion isn't going to carry an extra half ton of people and stuff , and give a great ride with lots of stability either. the boat does have the performance, it just the planing is a bit of an issue, and I have no experience with trim tabs but have 'heard' they can help with performance, planing speed, and economy. That's why all the questions about them. One more question. Assuming you can get it to plane, what is the observed wide open throttle RPM. And please do get the boat weighed separately from the trailer. Lots of older boats suffer from that malady.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Once you nail the throttle and the nose shoots for the moon I'd say you're planing in a few but up to 5 seconds. then the nosed drops down and you can back to the throttle down to about to 1800 rpm before it stalls. Weight the boat seperately woudl really be a chore. aand I dont' know of any practical way on how to do that around ehre, unless you weighe the combination, then launched the boat then took the trailer some where and weighed it seperately. *I believe the hull is in fine shape thoght at least from what I can tell. Bow rise before coming on plane is normal so is barely staying on plane at 1800 RPM. but shooting for the moon is not normal. Knowing your WOT RPM is a good thing to know and so is your boat's weight.. You need the combo weight to determine what you need for tires. You probably have a tandem trailor. Correct?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yes it is a tandem trailer and the 350 gm will pull 4000 rpm, but I don't want to run it WOT or WFO (take your pick) because there's no need to punish the engine just to hear it scream like it's begging for mercy, and watch the fuel guage drop simotaniously to the tach going up. |
Question about trim tabs
On Apr 1, 8:50*am, I am Tosk wrote:
In article cbe4f3d7-89f7-4059-b539-0c7e5b78c3c9 @u22g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, says... On Apr 1, 6:58 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Apr 1, 7:11 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 31, 7:11 pm, Larry wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 6:32 pm, wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 8:42 am, wrote: wrote in message .... There's an old saying at a local high performance engine shop that says "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" And I know the old rule usually applies "you get what you pay for? Well for the few times I've taken my marquis out it's interesting to get it up on plane. first , if you ease the throttle, you'll do a wheelie to where you think the boat will flip over backwards and you do little but plow water , so you have to nail it and you still get an extreme bow rise but it settles down and know you're going, but you still have to keep the RPM up above 2800 or the boat wants to drag back. So I'm investigating trim tabs. There's all kinds on the market anywhere from sophisticated hydraulic and independently controlled units ranging up to around $500.00 all the way down to the spring loaded sets that that are available for around a hundred bucks. I'm sure that trim tabs would help the boating experience, but I'm really wondering how much trim control I'm actually needing. to make a more efficient ride and run. I'm constantly accused of being 'tight' but I'm not THAT tight, because I know that money spent in the right direction will save in fuel and ride in the longer run. But over kill is still overkill. This is a 23 ft. V-hull Marquis with a 350 GM engine and not some 3000 hp. 40 ft. Fountain off shore racer. So, anyone have any suggestions? Tim, My father had hydraulic trim tabs on his 22 ft. Apollo back in the day, they were very useful for the application that you are referring. They are also very helpful if you have an offset in the load, you can equalize easily with the trim tabs. For little investment, you might also try one of the following first. I have no experience on larger boats, however I know they work well on smaller run abouts in the 16 to 18 ft. range. There are several other manufactures on the market besides this one. http://www.davisnet.com/MARINE/produ...asp?pnum=00448 JT- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks JT. I do have a fin on the lower end, though Forget the spring -loaded tabs. They will always add drag. If your fin is anything like the one I had on my old bowrider, it has an odd effect on the cornering. I took mine off. Try this: Don't ease the throttle, open it up. Just as the bow begins to lower, back off on the throttle until you have it where you want to be. If that still takes too long, you can play with prop size, pitch, cupping and venting. When you get your desired result, you will may lose some top end speed. Prop selection is a PITA for most boat owners.. Larry, that's what I do with my smaller boat and it hole shots quite well. The big tub? it drags and plows until it decides to get up and running. I dont' know, maybe I'm asking too much of the take off performance on the big one, but I don't think so. Something is amiss (maybe me!) and I'll have to experiment around with it for a while I suppose. Are the carbs clean? Oh yes. It runs very well. starts easily, and throttles up without a cough. I'm sure you have heard the old saw "There's no replacement for displacement" If your engine isn't big enough, there is no magic pill to make it perform like a racehorse. Also here are some easy checks for performance killers other than trim and prop sizing. You probably have already checked these items, but just in case, let's review. Is the boat waterlogged? Weigh it to find out. Is there hook or rocker on the boat bottom? A quick eyeball will tell you. Is there something preventing the throttle plates from opening? Cable adjustment etc. Are the secondaries working? Is static timing somewhere between 6 and 10 degrees? Does the distributer have mechanical advance? Is it working? Longshot: Might the coil be breaking down or a plug wire arcing. You would notice that right away though. The boat is fine. the engine is fine. The problem is that it doesn't plane outto what Iwodl expect, but then again, I'm used to a smaller , lighter 18ft. craft with a 14 hp 4 cyl engine. Now we're talking about a high sided heavy, 23 ft small cuddie boat with a 228 hp 350 GM mercruiser. Sure an elephant isn't going to give stallion performance, that is if that's what your looking for, but a stallion isn't going to carry an extra half ton of people and stuff , and give a great ride with lots of stability either. the boat does have the performance, it just the planing is a bit of an issue, and I have no experience with trim tabs but have 'heard' they can help with performance, planing speed, and economy. That's why all the questions about them. One more question. Assuming you can get it to plane, what is the observed wide open throttle RPM. And please do get the boat weighed separately from the trailer. Lots of older boats suffer from that malady.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Once you nail the throttle and the nose shoots for the moon I'd say you're planing in a few but up to 5 seconds. then the nosed drops down and you can back to the throttle down to about to 1800 rpm before it stalls. Weight the boat seperately woudl really be a chore. aand I dont' know of any practical way on how to do that around ehre, unless you weighe the combination, then launched the boat then took the trailer some where and weighed it seperately. *I believe the hull is in fine shape thoght at least from what I can tell. First off Tim, with all respect. If you are going to carry on serious conversation on the net, it's time to install the reader and start using some kind of spell checker if nothing more than a courtesy to those who are trying to help you;) Anyway, weigh the boat and trailer, then float the boat and go weigh the trailer and do the math.. There you go. Scotty -- For a great time, go here first...http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - News reader with a spell checker? Awwwww Scott! Waht? And ruin my reputation as the worst tuypist on USENET? Besides. this computer on dial up is to slow to load for such luxuries as a reader. I could replace the keyboard though. Some of the keys are sticking, like the "T" "E" and "C" etc. One thing I noticed though. I'd watch some Eurpoean videos on Youtube,a nd the Serbians, Greeks, Romanians, Russians, Albanians and Mascedonians and Turks are always going at it, kinda like some here on rec.boats. I noticed that they always typed in english. And the humorous part of them typing and blasting each other in english was, their typing and structure is atrocious, but they always seemed to spell the cursings correctly. ?;^ Q |
Question about trim tabs
In article 5b505613-aad6-4856-8cbb-350a48d33520
@w17g2000yqj.googlegroups.com, says... On Apr 1, 8:50*am, I am Tosk wrote: In article cbe4f3d7-89f7-4059-b539-0c7e5b78c3c9 @u22g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, says... On Apr 1, 6:58 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Apr 1, 7:11 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 31, 7:11 pm, Larry wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 6:32 pm, wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 8:42 am, wrote: wrote in message .... There's an old saying at a local high performance engine shop that says "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" And I know the old rule usually applies "you get what you pay for? Well for the few times I've taken my marquis out it's interesting to get it up on plane. first , if you ease the throttle, you'll do a wheelie to where you think the boat will flip over backwards and you do little but plow water , so you have to nail it and you still get an extreme bow rise but it settles down and know you're going, but you still have to keep the RPM up above 2800 or the boat wants to drag back. So I'm investigating trim tabs. There's all kinds on the market anywhere from sophisticated hydraulic and independently controlled units ranging up to around $500.00 all the way down to the spring loaded sets that that are available for around a hundred bucks. I'm sure that trim tabs would help the boating experience, but I'm really wondering how much trim control I'm actually needing. to make a more efficient ride and run. I'm constantly accused of being 'tight' but I'm not THAT tight, because I know that money spent in the right direction will save in fuel and ride in the longer run. But over kill is still overkill. This is a 23 ft. V-hull Marquis with a 350 GM engine and not some 3000 hp. 40 ft. Fountain off shore racer. So, anyone have any suggestions? Tim, My father had hydraulic trim tabs on his 22 ft. Apollo back in the day, they were very useful for the application that you are referring. They are also very helpful if you have an offset in the load, you can equalize easily with the trim tabs. For little investment, you might also try one of the following first. I have no experience on larger boats, however I know they work well on smaller run abouts in the 16 to 18 ft. range. There are several other manufactures on the market besides this one. http://www.davisnet.com/MARINE/produ...asp?pnum=00448 JT- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks JT. I do have a fin on the lower end, though Forget the spring -loaded tabs. They will always add drag. If your fin is anything like the one I had on my old bowrider, it has an odd effect on the cornering. I took mine off. Try this: Don't ease the throttle, open it up. Just as the bow begins to lower, back off on the throttle until you have it where you want to be. If that still takes too long, you can play with prop size, pitch, cupping and venting. When you get your desired result, you will may lose some top end speed. Prop selection is a PITA for most boat owners.. Larry, that's what I do with my smaller boat and it hole shots quite well. The big tub? it drags and plows until it decides to get up and running. I dont' know, maybe I'm asking too much of the take off performance on the big one, but I don't think so. Something is amiss (maybe me!) and I'll have to experiment around with it for a while I suppose. Are the carbs clean? Oh yes. It runs very well. starts easily, and throttles up without a cough. I'm sure you have heard the old saw "There's no replacement for displacement" If your engine isn't big enough, there is no magic pill to make it perform like a racehorse. Also here are some easy checks for performance killers other than trim and prop sizing. You probably have already checked these items, but just in case, let's review. Is the boat waterlogged? Weigh it to find out. Is there hook or rocker on the boat bottom? A quick eyeball will tell you. Is there something preventing the throttle plates from opening? Cable adjustment etc. Are the secondaries working? Is static timing somewhere between 6 and 10 degrees? Does the distributer have mechanical advance? Is it working? Longshot: Might the coil be breaking down or a plug wire arcing. You would notice that right away though. The boat is fine. the engine is fine. The problem is that it doesn't plane outto what Iwodl expect, but then again, I'm used to a smaller , lighter 18ft. craft with a 14 hp 4 cyl engine. Now we're talking about a high sided heavy, 23 ft small cuddie boat with a 228 hp 350 GM mercruiser. Sure an elephant isn't going to give stallion performance, that is if that's what your looking for, but a stallion isn't going to carry an extra half ton of people and stuff , and give a great ride with lots of stability either. the boat does have the performance, it just the planing is a bit of an issue, and I have no experience with trim tabs but have 'heard' they can help with performance, planing speed, and economy. That's why all the questions about them. One more question. Assuming you can get it to plane, what is the observed wide open throttle RPM. And please do get the boat weighed separately from the trailer. Lots of older boats suffer from that malady.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Once you nail the throttle and the nose shoots for the moon I'd say you're planing in a few but up to 5 seconds. then the nosed drops down and you can back to the throttle down to about to 1800 rpm before it stalls. Weight the boat seperately woudl really be a chore. aand I dont' know of any practical way on how to do that around ehre, unless you weighe the combination, then launched the boat then took the trailer some where and weighed it seperately. *I believe the hull is in fine shape thoght at least from what I can tell. First off Tim, with all respect. If you are going to carry on serious conversation on the net, it's time to install the reader and start using some kind of spell checker if nothing more than a courtesy to those who are trying to help you;) Anyway, weigh the boat and trailer, then float the boat and go weigh the trailer and do the math.. There you go. Scotty -- For a great time, go here first...http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - News reader with a spell checker? Awwwww Scott! Waht? And ruin my reputation as the worst tuypist on USENET? Besides. this computer on dial up is to slow to load for such luxuries as a reader. I could replace the keyboard though. Some of the keys are sticking, like the "T" "E" and "C" etc. One thing I noticed though. I'd watch some Eurpoean videos on Youtube,a nd the Serbians, Greeks, Romanians, Russians, Albanians and Mascedonians and Turks are always going at it, kinda like some here on rec.boats. I noticed that they always typed in english. And the humorous part of them typing and blasting each other in english was, their typing and structure is atrocious, but they always seemed to spell the cursings correctly. ?;^ Q Go to HEL! -- For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v |
Question about trim tabs
In article 5b505613-aad6-4856-8cbb-350a48d33520
@w17g2000yqj.googlegroups.com, says... On Apr 1, 8:50*am, I am Tosk wrote: In article cbe4f3d7-89f7-4059-b539-0c7e5b78c3c9 @u22g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, says... On Apr 1, 6:58 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Apr 1, 7:11 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 31, 7:11 pm, Larry wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 6:32 pm, wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 8:42 am, wrote: wrote in message .... There's an old saying at a local high performance engine shop that says "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" And I know the old rule usually applies "you get what you pay for? Well for the few times I've taken my marquis out it's interesting to get it up on plane. first , if you ease the throttle, you'll do a wheelie to where you think the boat will flip over backwards and you do little but plow water , so you have to nail it and you still get an extreme bow rise but it settles down and know you're going, but you still have to keep the RPM up above 2800 or the boat wants to drag back. So I'm investigating trim tabs. There's all kinds on the market anywhere from sophisticated hydraulic and independently controlled units ranging up to around $500.00 all the way down to the spring loaded sets that that are available for around a hundred bucks. I'm sure that trim tabs would help the boating experience, but I'm really wondering how much trim control I'm actually needing. to make a more efficient ride and run. I'm constantly accused of being 'tight' but I'm not THAT tight, because I know that money spent in the right direction will save in fuel and ride in the longer run. But over kill is still overkill. This is a 23 ft. V-hull Marquis with a 350 GM engine and not some 3000 hp. 40 ft. Fountain off shore racer. So, anyone have any suggestions? Tim, My father had hydraulic trim tabs on his 22 ft. Apollo back in the day, they were very useful for the application that you are referring. They are also very helpful if you have an offset in the load, you can equalize easily with the trim tabs. For little investment, you might also try one of the following first. I have no experience on larger boats, however I know they work well on smaller run abouts in the 16 to 18 ft. range. There are several other manufactures on the market besides this one. http://www.davisnet.com/MARINE/produ...asp?pnum=00448 JT- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks JT. I do have a fin on the lower end, though Forget the spring -loaded tabs. They will always add drag. If your fin is anything like the one I had on my old bowrider, it has an odd effect on the cornering. I took mine off. Try this: Don't ease the throttle, open it up. Just as the bow begins to lower, back off on the throttle until you have it where you want to be. If that still takes too long, you can play with prop size, pitch, cupping and venting. When you get your desired result, you will may lose some top end speed. Prop selection is a PITA for most boat owners.. Larry, that's what I do with my smaller boat and it hole shots quite well. The big tub? it drags and plows until it decides to get up and running. I dont' know, maybe I'm asking too much of the take off performance on the big one, but I don't think so. Something is amiss (maybe me!) and I'll have to experiment around with it for a while I suppose. Are the carbs clean? Oh yes. It runs very well. starts easily, and throttles up without a cough. I'm sure you have heard the old saw "There's no replacement for displacement" If your engine isn't big enough, there is no magic pill to make it perform like a racehorse. Also here are some easy checks for performance killers other than trim and prop sizing. You probably have already checked these items, but just in case, let's review. Is the boat waterlogged? Weigh it to find out. Is there hook or rocker on the boat bottom? A quick eyeball will tell you. Is there something preventing the throttle plates from opening? Cable adjustment etc. Are the secondaries working? Is static timing somewhere between 6 and 10 degrees? Does the distributer have mechanical advance? Is it working? Longshot: Might the coil be breaking down or a plug wire arcing. You would notice that right away though. The boat is fine. the engine is fine. The problem is that it doesn't plane outto what Iwodl expect, but then again, I'm used to a smaller , lighter 18ft. craft with a 14 hp 4 cyl engine. Now we're talking about a high sided heavy, 23 ft small cuddie boat with a 228 hp 350 GM mercruiser. Sure an elephant isn't going to give stallion performance, that is if that's what your looking for, but a stallion isn't going to carry an extra half ton of people and stuff , and give a great ride with lots of stability either. the boat does have the performance, it just the planing is a bit of an issue, and I have no experience with trim tabs but have 'heard' they can help with performance, planing speed, and economy. That's why all the questions about them. One more question. Assuming you can get it to plane, what is the observed wide open throttle RPM. And please do get the boat weighed separately from the trailer. Lots of older boats suffer from that malady.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Once you nail the throttle and the nose shoots for the moon I'd say you're planing in a few but up to 5 seconds. then the nosed drops down and you can back to the throttle down to about to 1800 rpm before it stalls. Weight the boat seperately woudl really be a chore. aand I dont' know of any practical way on how to do that around ehre, unless you weighe the combination, then launched the boat then took the trailer some where and weighed it seperately. *I believe the hull is in fine shape thoght at least from what I can tell. First off Tim, with all respect. If you are going to carry on serious conversation on the net, it's time to install the reader and start using some kind of spell checker if nothing more than a courtesy to those who are trying to help you;) Anyway, weigh the boat and trailer, then float the boat and go weigh the trailer and do the math.. There you go. Scotty -- For a great time, go here first...http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - News reader with a spell checker? Awwwww Scott! Waht? And ruin my reputation as the worst tuypist on USENET? Besides. this computer on dial up is to slow to load for such luxuries as a reader. I could replace the keyboard though. Some of the keys are sticking, like the "T" "E" and "C" etc. One thing I noticed though. I'd watch some Eurpoean videos on Youtube,a nd the Serbians, Greeks, Romanians, Russians, Albanians and Mascedonians and Turks are always going at it, kinda like some here on rec.boats. I noticed that they always typed in english. And the humorous part of them typing and blasting each other in english was, their typing and structure is atrocious, but they always seemed to spell the cursings correctly. ?;^ Q On that note... They may have to do it in English. Back when I worked with the Laotians, I asked one of them one day to teach me some Laotian curses. He said in the terms of asshole, or fu** you, there really weren't translations. He could say the equivalent of "you are the orifice in someones rectum", or "have intercourse with you", but it would be met more with a confused look and not understood as a challenge or dismissal.. Just brought back that old lesson. NOTE, sometimes Daphet screwed with me, so he could have been full of **** too;P) Scotty -- For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v |
Question about trim tabs
Tim wrote:
On Apr 1, 8:22 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Apr 1, 6:58 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Apr 1, 7:11 am, anon-e-moose wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 31, 7:11 pm, Larry wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 6:32 pm, wrote: Tim wrote: On Mar 30, 8:42 am, wrote: wrote in message .... There's an old saying at a local high performance engine shop that says "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" And I know the old rule usually applies "you get what you pay for? Well for the few times I've taken my marquis out it's interesting to get it up on plane. first , if you ease the throttle, you'll do a wheelie to where you think the boat will flip over backwards and you do little but plow water , so you have to nail it and you still get an extreme bow rise but it settles down and know you're going, but you still have to keep the RPM up above 2800 or the boat wants to drag back. So I'm investigating trim tabs. There's all kinds on the market anywhere from sophisticated hydraulic and independently controlled units ranging up to around $500.00 all the way down to the spring loaded sets that that are available for around a hundred bucks. I'm sure that trim tabs would help the boating experience, but I'm really wondering how much trim control I'm actually needing. to make a more efficient ride and run. I'm constantly accused of being 'tight' but I'm not THAT tight, because I know that money spent in the right direction will save in fuel and ride in the longer run. But over kill is still overkill. This is a 23 ft. V-hull Marquis with a 350 GM engine and not some 3000 hp. 40 ft. Fountain off shore racer. So, anyone have any suggestions? Tim, My father had hydraulic trim tabs on his 22 ft. Apollo back in the day, they were very useful for the application that you are referring. They are also very helpful if you have an offset in the load, you can equalize easily with the trim tabs. For little investment, you might also try one of the following first. I have no experience on larger boats, however I know they work well on smaller run abouts in the 16 to 18 ft. range. There are several other manufactures on the market besides this one. http://www.davisnet.com/MARINE/produ...asp?pnum=00448 JT- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks JT. I do have a fin on the lower end, though Forget the spring -loaded tabs. They will always add drag. If your fin is anything like the one I had on my old bowrider, it has an odd effect on the cornering. I took mine off. Try this: Don't ease the throttle, open it up. Just as the bow begins to lower, back off on the throttle until you have it where you want to be. If that still takes too long, you can play with prop size, pitch, cupping and venting. When you get your desired result, you will may lose some top end speed. Prop selection is a PITA for most boat owners.. Larry, that's what I do with my smaller boat and it hole shots quite well. The big tub? it drags and plows until it decides to get up and running. I dont' know, maybe I'm asking too much of the take off performance on the big one, but I don't think so. Something is amiss (maybe me!) and I'll have to experiment around with it for a while I suppose. Are the carbs clean? Oh yes. It runs very well. starts easily, and throttles up without a cough. I'm sure you have heard the old saw "There's no replacement for displacement" If your engine isn't big enough, there is no magic pill to make it perform like a racehorse. Also here are some easy checks for performance killers other than trim and prop sizing. You probably have already checked these items, but just in case, let's review. Is the boat waterlogged? Weigh it to find out. Is there hook or rocker on the boat bottom? A quick eyeball will tell you. Is there something preventing the throttle plates from opening? Cable adjustment etc. Are the secondaries working? Is static timing somewhere between 6 and 10 degrees? Does the distributer have mechanical advance? Is it working? Longshot: Might the coil be breaking down or a plug wire arcing. You would notice that right away though. The boat is fine. the engine is fine. The problem is that it doesn't plane outto what Iwodl expect, but then again, I'm used to a smaller , lighter 18ft. craft with a 14 hp 4 cyl engine. Now we're talking about a high sided heavy, 23 ft small cuddie boat with a 228 hp 350 GM mercruiser. Sure an elephant isn't going to give stallion performance, that is if that's what your looking for, but a stallion isn't going to carry an extra half ton of people and stuff , and give a great ride with lots of stability either. the boat does have the performance, it just the planing is a bit of an issue, and I have no experience with trim tabs but have 'heard' they can help with performance, planing speed, and economy. That's why all the questions about them. One more question. Assuming you can get it to plane, what is the observed wide open throttle RPM. And please do get the boat weighed separately from the trailer. Lots of older boats suffer from that malady.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Once you nail the throttle and the nose shoots for the moon I'd say you're planing in a few but up to 5 seconds. then the nosed drops down and you can back to the throttle down to about to 1800 rpm before it stalls. Weight the boat seperately woudl really be a chore. aand I dont' know of any practical way on how to do that around ehre, unless you weighe the combination, then launched the boat then took the trailer some where and weighed it seperately. I believe the hull is in fine shape thoght at least from what I can tell. Bow rise before coming on plane is normal so is barely staying on plane at 1800 RPM. but shooting for the moon is not normal. Knowing your WOT RPM is a good thing to know and so is your boat's weight. You need the combo weight to determine what you need for tires. You probably have a tandem trailor. Correct?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yes it is a tandem trailer and the 350 gm will pull 4000 rpm, but I don't want to run it WOT or WFO (take your pick) because there's no need to punish the engine just to hear it scream like it's begging for mercy, and watch the fuel guage drop simotaniously to the tach going up. You might be able to go down one size in either pitch or diameter. you would get a little more punch at low end and pull skiers a little easier. Otherwise what you have is fairly close to what you need, prop wise. |
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