"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Peter Prick" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"Peter Prick" wrote in message
...

Though Eisboch may mean well, his answer is bereft of any thought or
logic, and could insult anybody with the slightest knowledge of the
health care issue.
That's fine though, since this is a boat venue, and most here probably
don't spend much time in debating health care policy.
Not attributing anything to Eisboch, but I've heard much the same
empty
words from Republican politicians.
"We have good ideas."
"There's a better way."
Whenever pressed for details, they propose ideas that have been
rejected time and again as not offering a solution to the problem,
and which would simply maintain, or even worsen, the status quo.
Your "WTF" was quite appropriate.
Again, I understand that Eisboch may mean well.
I'm sure he is better versed in boats than he is in the health care
issue.
And it is unfair to ask him to put in a paragraph what Congress needed
+2700 pages to describe.


You are correct, Prick or whoever you are.
I don't claim to be a health insurance expert, nor do I have all the
answers.
However, I *do* have some experience in the administration of health
care
plans in a company and I have some experience in the application of
health
insurance as it pertains to a serious health issue.

Not to sound like a broken record, but the health insurance problem
started
with the demise of affordable, Major Medical health insurance
(catastrophic
insurance) that started in the late 1970's and early 1980's. When HMO,
then PTO and other similar plans became the standard in the industry,
the
cost of medical insurance began it's upward spiral.

It now seems that a medical insurance plan styled like an HMO and
subsidized
by taxpayers for those who can't afford it is expected to be a right. I
have no problem with insurance or subsidized care/service for life
threatening or disabling conditions. I *do* have a problem with
subsidized
HMO type programs covering everything under the sun, including elective
or
for convenience surgery, convenience abortions (meaning non-life
threatening) etc.

When it comes to basic health care, everyone should have it and those
who
can't afford it should be helped. When it comes to other, elective or
unnecessary care, surgery, etc, I think you should pay for it and not
have
it paid for by others.

Really very simple.

Eisboch

Nothing is simple when it is clouded by lies.
I have not seen or heard anything suggesting that this bill will make
"everything under the sun" available.
But I have heard that catching medical conditions early and treating
them is much cheaper than later amputations, prosthetics, dialysis,
transplants, etc, the latter of which you are implying is the best
course, given your frequent use of "life threatening."
You may disagree with that. But you won't find a doctor to agree with
you.
Simple as that.


Our disagreement may be on the term "life threatening".
Conditions that can lead to a life threatening situation should, in my
mind, be addressed and covered.

I am talking about subsidizing health insurance in an HMO type structure
whereby receipients get free or next to free medical services for
sniffles, colds or issues of convenience.

Eisboch


You're the one to decide what's a sniffle or cold? I think I'd rather have
my doctor decide.


--
Nom=de=Plume

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...


You're the one to decide what's a sniffle or cold? I think I'd rather have
my doctor decide.


--
Nom=de=Plume


I am 60 years old. My parents and my wife and I (with our kids) did a
pretty good job determining what required a doctor's attention and what
required a day home from school to rest.
Now-a-days the parents don't want that responsibility because it only costs
a $10 co-pay to run to the doctor.

That's what I am talking about. Not serious injuries or illnesses.

Eisboch

On 3/31/10 3:18 PM, Eisboch wrote:

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...


You're the one to decide what's a sniffle or cold? I think I'd rather
have my doctor decide.


--
Nom=de=Plume


I am 60 years old. My parents and my wife and I (with our kids) did a
pretty good job determining what required a doctor's attention and what
required a day home from school to rest.
Now-a-days the parents don't want that responsibility because it only
costs a $10 co-pay to run to the doctor.

That's what I am talking about. Not serious injuries or illnesses.

Eisboch


Ahh, but you are a reasonably educated, wealthy, white guy who worked
and got many of the advantages life has to offer. You're far more
sophisticated in the matters under discussion than tens of millions of
Americans. What works for you intellectually isn't going to work for
boobus Americanus, necessarily. The short version: a lot of parents do
not have the ability to differentiate between a low fever and a fever
that might indicate something serious.





--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

"hk" wrote in message
m...
On 3/31/10 3:18 PM, Eisboch wrote:

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...


You're the one to decide what's a sniffle or cold? I think I'd rather
have my doctor decide.


--
Nom=de=Plume


I am 60 years old. My parents and my wife and I (with our kids) did a
pretty good job determining what required a doctor's attention and what
required a day home from school to rest.
Now-a-days the parents don't want that responsibility because it only
costs a $10 co-pay to run to the doctor.

That's what I am talking about. Not serious injuries or illnesses.

Eisboch


Ahh, but you are a reasonably educated, wealthy, white guy who worked and
got many of the advantages life has to offer. You're far more
sophisticated in the matters under discussion than tens of millions of
Americans. What works for you intellectually isn't going to work for
boobus Americanus, necessarily. The short version: a lot of parents do not
have the ability to differentiate between a low fever and a fever that
might indicate something serious.


Hmmmm... makes you wonder. But ..
Any financial advantage I may enjoy was arrived at later in life .... after
turning 50.
No, I just had responsible parents and, more to Mrs.E's credit than mine,
our kids had responsible parents. Neither one of us are rocket scientists.

Eisboch

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:44:30 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"hk" wrote in message
om...
On 3/31/10 3:18 PM, Eisboch wrote:

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...


You're the one to decide what's a sniffle or cold? I think I'd rather
have my doctor decide.


--
Nom=de=Plume


I am 60 years old. My parents and my wife and I (with our kids) did a
pretty good job determining what required a doctor's attention and what
required a day home from school to rest.
Now-a-days the parents don't want that responsibility because it only
costs a $10 co-pay to run to the doctor.

That's what I am talking about. Not serious injuries or illnesses.

Eisboch


Ahh, but you are a reasonably educated, wealthy, white guy who worked and
got many of the advantages life has to offer. You're far more
sophisticated in the matters under discussion than tens of millions of
Americans. What works for you intellectually isn't going to work for
boobus Americanus, necessarily. The short version: a lot of parents do not
have the ability to differentiate between a low fever and a fever that
might indicate something serious.


Hmmmm... makes you wonder. But ..
Any financial advantage I may enjoy was arrived at later in life .... after
turning 50.
No, I just had responsible parents and, more to Mrs.E's credit than mine,
our kids had responsible parents. Neither one of us are rocket scientists.

Eisboch

I employ a rocket scientist and he doesn't take any better care of his
kids than we do...

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:44:30 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"hk" wrote in message
om...
On 3/31/10 3:18 PM, Eisboch wrote:

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...


You're the one to decide what's a sniffle or cold? I think I'd rather
have my doctor decide.


--
Nom=de=Plume


I am 60 years old. My parents and my wife and I (with our kids) did a
pretty good job determining what required a doctor's attention and what
required a day home from school to rest.
Now-a-days the parents don't want that responsibility because it only
costs a $10 co-pay to run to the doctor.

That's what I am talking about. Not serious injuries or illnesses.

Eisboch


Ahh, but you are a reasonably educated, wealthy, white guy who worked and
got many of the advantages life has to offer. You're far more
sophisticated in the matters under discussion than tens of millions of
Americans. What works for you intellectually isn't going to work for
boobus Americanus, necessarily. The short version: a lot of parents do not
have the ability to differentiate between a low fever and a fever that
might indicate something serious.


Hmmmm... makes you wonder. But ..
Any financial advantage I may enjoy was arrived at later in life .... after
turning 50.
No, I just had responsible parents and, more to Mrs.E's credit than mine,
our kids had responsible parents. Neither one of us are rocket scientists.

Eisboch

I employ a rocket scientist and he doesn't take any better care of his
kids than we do...

I do like the "can't see the forest for the trees" cliche, because it so
often fits well.
I interject my comment here, because I don't want to burden Mr. Eisboch
with the thought involved in mocking my name.
And it relates to the "forest for the trees" cliche quite well.
I have heard two phrases countless times from Republican resistors of
the recently passed health care bill.
"Can't afford it."
"Don't want the government coming between the patient and his doctor."

To the first point, apparently Mr. Eisboch does not believe that regular
visits to a doctor leads to less health care costs in the end.
This is somewhat akin to never doing preventative maintenance on an
automobile. And thinking that is cost efficient.
But I don't choose to argue that now.
What I find most insufferable in Mr. Eisboch's mantra is the second
point:
He is so arrogant to think HE should come between the doctor and his
patient.
That fact, evidenced by his virtually writing health care prescriptions
for others right here in this news group, is insulting to anybody who
actually sees a doctor, and to 99% of health care providers.
Perhaps others are too kind to mention this to Mr Eisboch, who seems an
otherwise reasonable man when not toeing the Republican party line.
In any case, I can still respect Mr. Eisboch's view on other matters he
speaks on, and where he shows logic and plain common sense.
For certain, he stands above many here who choose to cuss, cry,
lie, demean and spoof the names and families of others.
I've already forgiven Mr. Eisboch the mocking of my name, which was an
understandable lapse in judgment.
I implore others here to endeavor to speak in kind terms whenever
possible, and not allow petty differences of politics to come between
the friendship and camaraderie most boaters desire.
Mr Schnautz serves well as an example of civil conduct here, and can
stand as a fine exemplar.
A man's character is best known by the number of his friends, not his
enemies.

"Peter (Yes, that one)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:44:30 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"hk" wrote in message
om...
On 3/31/10 3:18 PM, Eisboch wrote:

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...


You're the one to decide what's a sniffle or cold? I think I'd
rather
have my doctor decide.


--
Nom=de=Plume


I am 60 years old. My parents and my wife and I (with our kids) did a
pretty good job determining what required a doctor's attention and
what
required a day home from school to rest.
Now-a-days the parents don't want that responsibility because it only
costs a $10 co-pay to run to the doctor.

That's what I am talking about. Not serious injuries or illnesses.

Eisboch


Ahh, but you are a reasonably educated, wealthy, white guy who worked
and
got many of the advantages life has to offer. You're far more
sophisticated in the matters under discussion than tens of millions of
Americans. What works for you intellectually isn't going to work for
boobus Americanus, necessarily. The short version: a lot of parents do
not
have the ability to differentiate between a low fever and a fever that
might indicate something serious.


Hmmmm... makes you wonder. But ..
Any financial advantage I may enjoy was arrived at later in life ....
after
turning 50.
No, I just had responsible parents and, more to Mrs.E's credit than
mine,
our kids had responsible parents. Neither one of us are rocket
scientists.

Eisboch

I employ a rocket scientist and he doesn't take any better care of his
kids than we do...

I do like the "can't see the forest for the trees" cliche, because it so
often fits well.
I interject my comment here, because I don't want to burden Mr. Eisboch
with the thought involved in mocking my name.
And it relates to the "forest for the trees" cliche quite well.
I have heard two phrases countless times from Republican resistors of
the recently passed health care bill.
"Can't afford it."
"Don't want the government coming between the patient and his doctor."

To the first point, apparently Mr. Eisboch does not believe that regular
visits to a doctor leads to less health care costs in the end.
This is somewhat akin to never doing preventative maintenance on an
automobile. And thinking that is cost efficient.
But I don't choose to argue that now.
What I find most insufferable in Mr. Eisboch's mantra is the second
point:
He is so arrogant to think HE should come between the doctor and his
patient.
That fact, evidenced by his virtually writing health care prescriptions
for others right here in this news group, is insulting to anybody who
actually sees a doctor, and to 99% of health care providers.
Perhaps others are too kind to mention this to Mr Eisboch, who seems an
otherwise reasonable man when not toeing the Republican party line.
In any case, I can still respect Mr. Eisboch's view on other matters he
speaks on, and where he shows logic and plain common sense.
For certain, he stands above many here who choose to cuss, cry,
lie, demean and spoof the names and families of others.
I've already forgiven Mr. Eisboch the mocking of my name, which was an
understandable lapse in judgment.
I implore others here to endeavor to speak in kind terms whenever
possible, and not allow petty differences of politics to come between
the friendship and camaraderie most boaters desire.
Mr Schnautz serves well as an example of civil conduct here, and can
stand as a fine exemplar.
A man's character is best known by the number of his friends, not his
enemies.


I've survived 60 years of jokes and snerks regarding my nickname (Dick). I
am sure you can handle it.
But, just for the record .... where exactly did I "mock" your name?

I recall writing "Prick (or whatever your name is)". I did so because I
suspected (and still do) that you are in reality another person who used to
post here regularly.

Eisboch

"Peter (Yes, that one)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:44:30 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"hk" wrote in message
om...
On 3/31/10 3:18 PM, Eisboch wrote:

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...


You're the one to decide what's a sniffle or cold? I think I'd
rather
have my doctor decide.


--
Nom=de=Plume


I am 60 years old. My parents and my wife and I (with our kids) did a
pretty good job determining what required a doctor's attention and
what
required a day home from school to rest.
Now-a-days the parents don't want that responsibility because it only
costs a $10 co-pay to run to the doctor.

That's what I am talking about. Not serious injuries or illnesses.

Eisboch


Ahh, but you are a reasonably educated, wealthy, white guy who worked
and
got many of the advantages life has to offer. You're far more
sophisticated in the matters under discussion than tens of millions of
Americans. What works for you intellectually isn't going to work for
boobus Americanus, necessarily. The short version: a lot of parents do
not
have the ability to differentiate between a low fever and a fever that
might indicate something serious.


Hmmmm... makes you wonder. But ..
Any financial advantage I may enjoy was arrived at later in life ....
after
turning 50.
No, I just had responsible parents and, more to Mrs.E's credit than
mine,
our kids had responsible parents. Neither one of us are rocket
scientists.

Eisboch

I employ a rocket scientist and he doesn't take any better care of his
kids than we do...

I do like the "can't see the forest for the trees" cliche, because it so
often fits well.
I interject my comment here, because I don't want to burden Mr. Eisboch
with the thought involved in mocking my name.
And it relates to the "forest for the trees" cliche quite well.
I have heard two phrases countless times from Republican resistors of
the recently passed health care bill.
"Can't afford it."
"Don't want the government coming between the patient and his doctor."

To the first point, apparently Mr. Eisboch does not believe that regular
visits to a doctor leads to less health care costs in the end.
This is somewhat akin to never doing preventative maintenance on an
automobile. And thinking that is cost efficient.
But I don't choose to argue that now.
What I find most insufferable in Mr. Eisboch's mantra is the second
point:
He is so arrogant to think HE should come between the doctor and his
patient.
That fact, evidenced by his virtually writing health care prescriptions
for others right here in this news group, is insulting to anybody who
actually sees a doctor, and to 99% of health care providers.
Perhaps others are too kind to mention this to Mr Eisboch, who seems an
otherwise reasonable man when not toeing the Republican party line.
In any case, I can still respect Mr. Eisboch's view on other matters he
speaks on, and where he shows logic and plain common sense.
For certain, he stands above many here who choose to cuss, cry,
lie, demean and spoof the names and families of others.
I've already forgiven Mr. Eisboch the mocking of my name, which was an
understandable lapse in judgment.
I implore others here to endeavor to speak in kind terms whenever
possible, and not allow petty differences of politics to come between
the friendship and camaraderie most boaters desire.
Mr Schnautz serves well as an example of civil conduct here, and can
stand as a fine exemplar.
A man's character is best known by the number of his friends, not his
enemies.



I believe preventive care is part of the new law.

--
Nom=de=Plume

snipped for brevity

A man's character is best known by the number of his friends, not his
enemies.


A good man can have a wealth of enemies.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:18:35 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...


You're the one to decide what's a sniffle or cold? I think I'd rather have
my doctor decide.


--
Nom=de=Plume


I am 60 years old. My parents and my wife and I (with our kids) did a
pretty good job determining what required a doctor's attention and what
required a day home from school to rest.
Now-a-days the parents don't want that responsibility because it only costs
a $10 co-pay to run to the doctor.

That's what I am talking about. Not serious injuries or illnesses.

Eisboch

My insurance is a $30 copay and we don't go to the doctor unless
necessary.

We've recently passed a cough/cold around the family that had me close
to pneumonia for 3 weeks. I didn't let it get the best of me and I
didn't see a doctor. I'm fine now.

Am I different from your prototypical example?

Don't think so.