Ancient circuitry
 

In article c9511ebc-d7f2-449a-9d90-c55f2b828712
@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 18, 8:36*am, Canuck57 wrote:
On 17/01/2010 4:18 PM, Eisboch wrote:





"Del *wrote in message
...

*wrote in message
...
On 16/01/2010 6:17 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:05:54 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
* wrote:

Here at work, we are repairing the vacuum control circuitry for an
electron microscope made in 1979. *It has 6 SN7400 chips. *If I
remember, these are quad 2 input NAND gates. *2 of them have gone bad
because the heat sinking of the board is not very good, you can see
heat discoloration on the board.
Back in 1974, I was 18 and was experimenting with making computer
circuitry trying to make a computer cpu with a calculator chip and a
buffer made from a bunch of 7400 gates as memory flip flops. *I never
got rid of all those old chips and still have several tubes of them
unused.
Now, 36 years later, I find a use for them.

Never throw anything away *;-)

There are still plenty of places that still stock these things. I
never took the TTL plunge because I had IBM parts to play with but I
have made a lot of CMOS (4xxx) stuff. Couple that with a big SSR and
you can run humongous stuff straight from CMOS. (like my 11kw spa
heater)

Same deal, just that you are likely a few years yonger. *Every TTL has a
CMOS counterpart in time and CMOS was a better/newer evolution of the
TTL. *Used both myself but mostly TTL.

Was fun to tinker with those chips on bread boards. *A joy many today
will never know.

I always wondered if the US government got a hold of an ancient space
ship and reverse engineered the electronics we have today. *As we
accelerated down this path about as fast as socially possible without
regards to the hardware.

I remember saying to people at the time that it is unlikely I will retire
before we see a 4ghz computer with 4 CPUs and 4gb of ram and 4gb of hard
drive as a commodity system.

Only 4ghz CPU stands between me and retirement. *Bu the rest is history.

You are a couple of years overdue. *Put in those papers.

Depending on your definition of commodity of course.

http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pr...ease/21580.wss

I remember TTL logic being the rage in the late 70's. * The problem for
electrically noisy
industrial applications was that a "high" was about 3.8 volts and a "low"
was around 2.4 volts.
A TTL logic based controller would work fine in the quiet lab, but when it
was *used in a
real application and subjected to harsh RFI and EMI environments, there was
no way of
telling what it would do. *It didn't take much of a electrical spike or some
RFI to completely screw up
the logic.

CMOS *at 12 volts worked much better.

Vacuum tubes worked perfectly. *(and still do).

Eisboch

Can't say I miss tubes. *RF and heat burns...

But good heaters.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I miss them in my guitar amp!

I got them in mine... I bought a modern Fender Champ and it is a tube
job. There is a second channel which adds solid state circuitry to
emulate other amps, but played straight, it's a tube..

Scotty AKA Plays With Sharks:)

Ancient circuitry
 

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 11:31:21 -0500, I am Tosk wrote:


I miss them in my guitar amp!

I got them in mine... I bought a modern Fender Champ and it is a tube
job. There is a second channel which adds solid state circuitry to
emulate other amps, but played straight, it's a tube..

Scotty AKA Plays With Sharks:)

Close your eyes. Can you also hear dueling banjos.

I do.

Ancient circuitry
 

Eisboch wrote:
Plus,
musicians being the fickle group that they are, always want modifications
and tweaking.

Thanks,

Eisboch



To say nothing of their instruments...

Ancient circuitry
 

On 18/01/2010 6:38 AM, Loogypicker wrote:
On Jan 18, 8:36 am, wrote:
On 17/01/2010 4:18 PM, Eisboch wrote:





"Del wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 16/01/2010 6:17 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:05:54 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

Here at work, we are repairing the vacuum control circuitry for an
electron microscope made in 1979. It has 6 SN7400 chips. If I
remember, these are quad 2 input NAND gates. 2 of them have gone bad
because the heat sinking of the board is not very good, you can see
heat discoloration on the board.
Back in 1974, I was 18 and was experimenting with making computer
circuitry trying to make a computer cpu with a calculator chip and a
buffer made from a bunch of 7400 gates as memory flip flops. I never
got rid of all those old chips and still have several tubes of them
unused.
Now, 36 years later, I find a use for them.

Never throw anything away ;-)

There are still plenty of places that still stock these things. I
never took the TTL plunge because I had IBM parts to play with but I
have made a lot of CMOS (4xxx) stuff. Couple that with a big SSR and
you can run humongous stuff straight from CMOS. (like my 11kw spa
heater)

Same deal, just that you are likely a few years yonger. Every TTL has a
CMOS counterpart in time and CMOS was a better/newer evolution of the
TTL. Used both myself but mostly TTL.

Was fun to tinker with those chips on bread boards. A joy many today
will never know.

I always wondered if the US government got a hold of an ancient space
ship and reverse engineered the electronics we have today. As we
accelerated down this path about as fast as socially possible without
regards to the hardware.

I remember saying to people at the time that it is unlikely I will retire
before we see a 4ghz computer with 4 CPUs and 4gb of ram and 4gb of hard
drive as a commodity system.

Only 4ghz CPU stands between me and retirement. Bu the rest is history.

You are a couple of years overdue. Put in those papers.

Depending on your definition of commodity of course.

http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pr...ease/21580.wss

I remember TTL logic being the rage in the late 70's. The problem for
electrically noisy
industrial applications was that a "high" was about 3.8 volts and a "low"
was around 2.4 volts.
A TTL logic based controller would work fine in the quiet lab, but when it
was used in a
real application and subjected to harsh RFI and EMI environments, there was
no way of
telling what it would do. It didn't take much of a electrical spike or some
RFI to completely screw up
the logic.

CMOS at 12 volts worked much better.

Vacuum tubes worked perfectly. (and still do).

Eisboch

Can't say I miss tubes. RF and heat burns...

But good heaters.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I miss them in my guitar amp!

I have heard many like them for audio amps, why not make one? I
wouldn't doubt you could get some pentodes, triodes, nut sized
resistors, some electrolytic caps and transformers still. Wouldn't
doubt you could still get the parts.

And you don't need to do the slide rule thing any more as we were tough
in junior high school. What a PITA. My first calc was a 9V add,
subtract, multiply and divide, crappy precision but I retired the slide
rule pretty quick except for logs.

Funny, I think back then with 6800/Z80 uProcs being the rage and all of
4k of memory, it was more fun than today. Certainly a lot less
dysfunctional politics that has crept in over the years. I took the
path of microprocessors like bees to flowers.

Ancient circuitry
 

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 18/01/2010 6:38 AM, Loogypicker wrote:
On Jan 18, 8:36 am, wrote:
On 17/01/2010 4:18 PM, Eisboch wrote:





"Del wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 16/01/2010 6:17 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:05:54 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

Here at work, we are repairing the vacuum control circuitry
for an
electron microscope made in 1979. It has 6 SN7400 chips. If
I
remember, these are quad 2 input NAND gates. 2 of them have
gone bad
because the heat sinking of the board is not very good, you
can see
heat discoloration on the board.
Back in 1974, I was 18 and was experimenting with making
computer
circuitry trying to make a computer cpu with a calculator
chip and a
buffer made from a bunch of 7400 gates as memory flip flops.
I never
got rid of all those old chips and still have several tubes
of them
unused.
Now, 36 years later, I find a use for them.

Never throw anything away ;-)

There are still plenty of places that still stock these
things. I
never took the TTL plunge because I had IBM parts to play with
but I
have made a lot of CMOS (4xxx) stuff. Couple that with a big
SSR and
you can run humongous stuff straight from CMOS. (like my 11kw
spa
heater)

Same deal, just that you are likely a few years yonger. Every
TTL has a
CMOS counterpart in time and CMOS was a better/newer evolution
of the
TTL. Used both myself but mostly TTL.

Was fun to tinker with those chips on bread boards. A joy many
today
will never know.

I always wondered if the US government got a hold of an ancient
space
ship and reverse engineered the electronics we have today. As
we
accelerated down this path about as fast as socially possible
without
regards to the hardware.

I remember saying to people at the time that it is unlikely I
will retire
before we see a 4ghz computer with 4 CPUs and 4gb of ram and
4gb of hard
drive as a commodity system.

Only 4ghz CPU stands between me and retirement. Bu the rest is
history.

You are a couple of years overdue. Put in those papers.

Depending on your definition of commodity of course.

http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pr...ease/21580.wss

I remember TTL logic being the rage in the late 70's. The
problem for
electrically noisy
industrial applications was that a "high" was about 3.8 volts and
a "low"
was around 2.4 volts.
A TTL logic based controller would work fine in the quiet lab,
but when it
was used in a
real application and subjected to harsh RFI and EMI environments,
there was
no way of
telling what it would do. It didn't take much of a electrical
spike or some
RFI to completely screw up
the logic.

CMOS at 12 volts worked much better.

Vacuum tubes worked perfectly. (and still do).

Eisboch

Can't say I miss tubes. RF and heat burns...

But good heaters.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I miss them in my guitar amp!

I have heard many like them for audio amps, why not make one? I
wouldn't doubt you could get some pentodes, triodes, nut sized
resistors, some electrolytic caps and transformers still. Wouldn't
doubt you could still get the parts.

Transformers, particularily output transformers, would be a little
hard to come by.

And you don't need to do the slide rule thing any more as we were
tough in junior high school. What a PITA. My first calc was a 9V
add, subtract, multiply and divide, crappy precision but I retired
the slide rule pretty quick except for logs.

Funny, I think back then with 6800/Z80 uProcs being the rage and all
of 4k of memory, it was more fun than today. Certainly a lot less
dysfunctional politics that has crept in over the years. I took the
path of microprocessors like bees to flowers.

Ancient circuitry
 

Del Cecchi wrote:

Transformers, particularily output transformers, would be a little
hard to come by.

These guys are still around...

http://www.hammondmfg.com/claspg.htm

-rick-

Ancient circuitry
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...


Thanks,

Eisboch


Send me an Email ( bmckee at ix dot netcom dot com.)


Done

Eisboch

Ancient circuitry
 

In article ,
says...

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 18/01/2010 6:38 AM, Loogypicker wrote:
On Jan 18, 8:36 am, wrote:
On 17/01/2010 4:18 PM, Eisboch wrote:





"Del wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 16/01/2010 6:17 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:05:54 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

Here at work, we are repairing the vacuum control circuitry
for an
electron microscope made in 1979. It has 6 SN7400 chips. If
I
remember, these are quad 2 input NAND gates. 2 of them have
gone bad
because the heat sinking of the board is not very good, you
can see
heat discoloration on the board.
Back in 1974, I was 18 and was experimenting with making
computer
circuitry trying to make a computer cpu with a calculator
chip and a
buffer made from a bunch of 7400 gates as memory flip flops.
I never
got rid of all those old chips and still have several tubes
of them
unused.
Now, 36 years later, I find a use for them.

Never throw anything away ;-)

There are still plenty of places that still stock these
things. I
never took the TTL plunge because I had IBM parts to play with
but I
have made a lot of CMOS (4xxx) stuff. Couple that with a big
SSR and
you can run humongous stuff straight from CMOS. (like my 11kw
spa
heater)

Same deal, just that you are likely a few years yonger. Every
TTL has a
CMOS counterpart in time and CMOS was a better/newer evolution
of the
TTL. Used both myself but mostly TTL.

Was fun to tinker with those chips on bread boards. A joy many
today
will never know.

I always wondered if the US government got a hold of an ancient
space
ship and reverse engineered the electronics we have today. As
we
accelerated down this path about as fast as socially possible
without
regards to the hardware.

I remember saying to people at the time that it is unlikely I
will retire
before we see a 4ghz computer with 4 CPUs and 4gb of ram and
4gb of hard
drive as a commodity system.

Only 4ghz CPU stands between me and retirement. Bu the rest is
history.

You are a couple of years overdue. Put in those papers.

Depending on your definition of commodity of course.

http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pr...ease/21580.wss

I remember TTL logic being the rage in the late 70's. The
problem for
electrically noisy
industrial applications was that a "high" was about 3.8 volts and
a "low"
was around 2.4 volts.
A TTL logic based controller would work fine in the quiet lab,
but when it
was used in a
real application and subjected to harsh RFI and EMI environments,
there was
no way of
telling what it would do. It didn't take much of a electrical
spike or some
RFI to completely screw up
the logic.

CMOS at 12 volts worked much better.

Vacuum tubes worked perfectly. (and still do).

Eisboch

Can't say I miss tubes. RF and heat burns...

But good heaters.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I miss them in my guitar amp!

I have heard many like them for audio amps, why not make one? I
wouldn't doubt you could get some pentodes, triodes, nut sized
resistors, some electrolytic caps and transformers still. Wouldn't
doubt you could still get the parts.

Transformers, particularily output transformers, would be a little
hard to come by.

And you don't need to do the slide rule thing any more as we were
tough in junior high school. What a PITA. My first calc was a 9V
add, subtract, multiply and divide, crappy precision but I retired
the slide rule pretty quick except for logs.

Funny, I think back then with 6800/Z80 uProcs being the rage and all
of 4k of memory, it was more fun than today. Certainly a lot less
dysfunctional politics that has crept in over the years. I took the
path of microprocessors like bees to flowers.


Not to mention. There are plenty of old tube Amps available and the
parts are available too...

Scotty

Ancient circuitry
 

"I am Tosk" wrote in message
...


Not to mention. There are plenty of old tube Amps available and the
parts are available too...

Scotty


Usually all the old tube amps need are new capacitors. Tubes, like you say
are plentiful.
Transformers fail rarely and are still available when they do fail.

I recently came across a Paul Reed Smith solid state amp that was designed
back in the late
80's. Smith retained a guy to design it, anticipating a future shortage of
tubes. The amp
was designed with a "harmonic generator" to emulate the sound of a tube amp.

Only about 300 were built. Turns out the anticipated tube shortage never
happened.

Reason?

During the Cold War, while the USA developed hardened solid state
instruments and avionic displays, the Soviet Union stuck mostly with vacuum
tube devices due to their natural immunity to radiation and EMI blasts.

When the Soviet Union collapsed they had a well developed manufacturing
capacity to build vacuum tubes. They took advantage of it and are now the
leading producers of replacement tubes for virtually all applications.

Eisboch (with more useless trivia)

Ancient circuitry
 

On Jan 19, 9:00*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"I am Tosk" wrote in ...



Not to mention. There are plenty of old tube Amps available and the
parts are available too...

Scotty

Usually all the old tube amps need are new capacitors. *Tubes, like you say
are plentiful.
Transformers fail rarely and are still available when they do fail.

I recently came across a Paul Reed Smith solid state amp that was designed
back in the late
80's. *Smith retained a guy to design it, anticipating a future shortage of
tubes. *The amp
was designed with a "harmonic generator" to emulate the sound of a tube amp.

Only about 300 were built. * Turns out the anticipated tube shortage never
happened.

Reason?

During the Cold War, while the USA developed hardened solid state
instruments and avionic displays, the Soviet Union stuck mostly with vacuum
tube devices due to their natural immunity to radiation and EMI blasts.

When the Soviet Union collapsed they had a well developed manufacturing
capacity to build vacuum tubes. * They took advantage of it and are now the
leading producers of replacement tubes for virtually all applications.

Eisboch *(with more useless trivia)

Very interesting!