Its a long shot, but I was hoping that Gene or others with good
electrical experience might help.


Well, some friends of mine have a pretty good local band, and they
play at various venues around a tri-county area. OK, so I went up
town
to hear them Sat. and one member and I got to talking on their break
and he asked me so i thought I'd try to get some ideas here.

One place they play is an older brick building with everything that
can plague an older brick building.


I'm sure the wiring is sub-standard and I dont' know if it has
fluorescent lights causing fits or not. But all the amps and PA have
a
"hummmmmm" that they can't get rid of. The guitarists amp hums the
worst. Not totally obnoxious, but really annoying.


It seems that today's equipment(for the most part) doesn't have any
provisions for a "reverse" switch on the amps, and with three-prong
plugs it's kind of hard to do the old "turn-the-plug-around" trick.


Even with a reverse switch, I've seen instances where when flipped the
hum only got louder.


The manager says all the bar/ kitchen equipment is in good order, ,
but that's left to be seen.


So my question is, does anyone here know of any type of device/ power
bar etc, that can help compensate for this type of a problem?
All these players have good late model quality equipment and this is
the only venue they have this problem.


it's a good gig for them but event the patrons come and ask them
"what's the hum?" They don't know, I don't know.


Any ideas?


Thanks!

On Jan 4, 10:00*am, Tim wrote:
Its a long shot, but I was hoping that Gene or others with good
electrical experience might help.

Well, some friends of mine have a pretty good local band, and they
play at various venues around a tri-county area. OK, so I went up
town
to hear them Sat. and one member and I got to talking on their break
and he asked me so i thought I'd try to get some ideas here.

One place they play is an older brick building with everything that
can plague an older brick building.

I'm sure the wiring is sub-standard and I dont' know if it has
fluorescent lights causing fits or not. But all the amps and PA have
a
"hummmmmm" that they can't get rid of. The guitarists amp hums the
worst. Not totally obnoxious, but really annoying.

It seems that today's equipment(for the most part) doesn't have any
provisions for a "reverse" switch on the amps, and with three-prong
plugs it's kind of hard to do the old "turn-the-plug-around" trick.

Even with a reverse switch, I've seen instances where when flipped the
hum only got louder.

The manager says all the bar/ kitchen equipment is in good order, ,
but that's left to be seen.

So my question is, does anyone here know of any type of device/ power
bar etc, that can help compensate for this type of a problem?
All these players have good late model quality equipment and this is
the only venue they have this problem.

it's a good gig for them but event the patrons come and ask them
"what's the hum?" They don't know, I don't know.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Tim, sometimes, and just sometimes, even the cheap Furman power
conditioners will improve the hum. If the hum is pickup induced,
humbuckers seem to be better at reducing that noise. See if any of
them have an old Les Paul or some such with humbuckers and see if they
are as noisy. The noise could be because of something obscure, like
one bad flourescent fixture, one crappy neon beer sign, etc. Have them
move around and see if the noise gets worse or better. That would
indicate something close to them like a fixture or sign.

On Jan 4, 9:13*am, Loogypicker wrote:
On Jan 4, 10:00*am, Tim wrote:





Its a long shot, but I was hoping that Gene or others with good
electrical experience might help.

Well, some friends of mine have a pretty good local band, and they
play at various venues around a tri-county area. OK, so I went up
town
to hear them Sat. and one member and I got to talking on their break
and he asked me so i thought I'd try to get some ideas here.

One place they play is an older brick building with everything that
can plague an older brick building.

I'm sure the wiring is sub-standard and I dont' know if it has
fluorescent lights causing fits or not. But all the amps and PA have
a
"hummmmmm" that they can't get rid of. The guitarists amp hums the
worst. Not totally obnoxious, but really annoying.

It seems that today's equipment(for the most part) doesn't have any
provisions for a "reverse" switch on the amps, and with three-prong
plugs it's kind of hard to do the old "turn-the-plug-around" trick.

Even with a reverse switch, I've seen instances where when flipped the
hum only got louder.

The manager says all the bar/ kitchen equipment is in good order, ,
but that's left to be seen.

So my question is, does anyone here know of any type of device/ power
bar etc, that can help compensate for this type of a problem?
All these players have good late model quality equipment and this is
the only venue they have this problem.

it's a good gig for them but event the patrons come and ask them
"what's the hum?" They don't know, I don't know.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Tim, sometimes, and just sometimes, even the cheap Furman power
conditioners will improve the hum. If the hum is pickup induced,
humbuckers seem to be better at reducing that noise. See if any of
them have an old Les Paul or some such with humbuckers and see if they
are as noisy. The noise could be because of something obscure, like
one bad flourescent fixture, one crappy neon beer sign, etc. Have them
move around and see if the noise gets worse or better. That would
indicate something close to them like a fixture or sign.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good thoughts. I think it has domething to do with the lighing myself.
They have turned on amps one by one trying o see if there equipment is
the source of the problem, but they all hum, not only collectivly but
individually.

It's gotta be in the lights. But I'll suggest they try different
outlets and positions though.

On Jan 4, 10:23*am, Tim wrote:
On Jan 4, 9:13*am, Loogypicker wrote:





On Jan 4, 10:00*am, Tim wrote:

Its a long shot, but I was hoping that Gene or others with good
electrical experience might help.

Well, some friends of mine have a pretty good local band, and they
play at various venues around a tri-county area. OK, so I went up
town
to hear them Sat. and one member and I got to talking on their break
and he asked me so i thought I'd try to get some ideas here.

One place they play is an older brick building with everything that
can plague an older brick building.

I'm sure the wiring is sub-standard and I dont' know if it has
fluorescent lights causing fits or not. But all the amps and PA have
a
"hummmmmm" that they can't get rid of. The guitarists amp hums the
worst. Not totally obnoxious, but really annoying.

It seems that today's equipment(for the most part) doesn't have any
provisions for a "reverse" switch on the amps, and with three-prong
plugs it's kind of hard to do the old "turn-the-plug-around" trick.

Even with a reverse switch, I've seen instances where when flipped the
hum only got louder.

The manager says all the bar/ kitchen equipment is in good order, ,
but that's left to be seen.

So my question is, does anyone here know of any type of device/ power
bar etc, that can help compensate for this type of a problem?
All these players have good late model quality equipment and this is
the only venue they have this problem.

it's a good gig for them but event the patrons come and ask them
"what's the hum?" They don't know, I don't know.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Tim, sometimes, and just sometimes, even the cheap Furman power
conditioners will improve the hum. If the hum is pickup induced,
humbuckers seem to be better at reducing that noise. See if any of
them have an old Les Paul or some such with humbuckers and see if they
are as noisy. The noise could be because of something obscure, like
one bad flourescent fixture, one crappy neon beer sign, etc. Have them
move around and see if the noise gets worse or better. That would
indicate something close to them like a fixture or sign.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good thoughts. I think it has domething to do with the lighing myself.
They have turned on amps one by one trying o see if there equipment is
the source of the problem, but they all hum, not only collectivly but
individually.

It's gotta be in the lights. But I'll suggest they try different
outlets and positions though.

It should be easy enough to check for the lights as the source by
simply turning them off for a moment.

I've seen some really bad wiring "upgrades" done to older buildings.
Grounded outlets installed with no ground connection, ground conductor
and/or metal conduit carrying the neutral current (!), the classic hot/
neutral reversal, etc. A good piece of equipment to carry around is
one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/ELECTRICAL-REC.../dp/B002Q3R7HI

Of course you can do the same thing with an VOM, but these things are
a great go/no-go quick indicator.

In article 197db70b-8619-4665-b3a4-63236cad6414
@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

Its a long shot, but I was hoping that Gene or others with good
electrical experience might help.


Well, some friends of mine have a pretty good local band, and they
play at various venues around a tri-county area. OK, so I went up
town
to hear them Sat. and one member and I got to talking on their break
and he asked me so i thought I'd try to get some ideas here.

One place they play is an older brick building with everything that
can plague an older brick building.


I'm sure the wiring is sub-standard and I dont' know if it has
fluorescent lights causing fits or not. But all the amps and PA have
a
"hummmmmm" that they can't get rid of. The guitarists amp hums the
worst. Not totally obnoxious, but really annoying.


It seems that today's equipment(for the most part) doesn't have any
provisions for a "reverse" switch on the amps, and with three-prong
plugs it's kind of hard to do the old "turn-the-plug-around" trick.


Even with a reverse switch, I've seen instances where when flipped the
hum only got louder.


The manager says all the bar/ kitchen equipment is in good order, ,
but that's left to be seen.


So my question is, does anyone here know of any type of device/ power
bar etc, that can help compensate for this type of a problem?
All these players have good late model quality equipment and this is
the only venue they have this problem.


it's a good gig for them but event the patrons come and ask them
"what's the hum?" They don't know, I don't know.


Any ideas?


Thanks!

Call Dick...

On Jan 4, 10:00*am, I am Tosk wrote:
In article 197db70b-8619-4665-b3a4-63236cad6414
@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...







Its a long shot, but I was hoping that Gene or others with good
electrical experience might help.

Well, some friends of mine have a pretty good local band, and they
play at various venues around a tri-county area. OK, so I went up
town
to hear them Sat. and one member and I got to talking on their break
and he asked me so i thought I'd try to get some ideas here.

One place they play is an older brick building with everything that
can plague an older brick building.

I'm sure the wiring is sub-standard and I dont' know if it has
fluorescent lights causing fits or not. But all the amps and PA have
a
"hummmmmm" that they can't get rid of. The guitarists amp hums the
worst. Not totally obnoxious, but really annoying.

It seems that today's equipment(for the most part) doesn't have any
provisions for a "reverse" switch on the amps, and with three-prong
plugs it's kind of hard to do the old "turn-the-plug-around" trick.

Even with a reverse switch, I've seen instances where when flipped the
hum only got louder.

The manager says all the bar/ kitchen equipment is in good order, ,
but that's left to be seen.

So my question is, does anyone here know of any type of device/ power
bar etc, that can help compensate for this type of a problem?
All these players have good late model quality equipment and this is
the only venue they have this problem.

it's a good gig for them but event the patrons come and ask them
"what's the hum?" They don't know, I don't know.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Call Dick...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I posted over on his board and haven't gotten a reply yet.

On Jan 4, 9:52*am, Jack wrote:
On Jan 4, 10:23*am, Tim wrote:





On Jan 4, 9:13*am, Loogypicker wrote:

On Jan 4, 10:00*am, Tim wrote:

Its a long shot, but I was hoping that Gene or others with good
electrical experience might help.

Well, some friends of mine have a pretty good local band, and they
play at various venues around a tri-county area. OK, so I went up
town
to hear them Sat. and one member and I got to talking on their break
and he asked me so i thought I'd try to get some ideas here.

One place they play is an older brick building with everything that
can plague an older brick building.

I'm sure the wiring is sub-standard and I dont' know if it has
fluorescent lights causing fits or not. But all the amps and PA have
a
"hummmmmm" that they can't get rid of. The guitarists amp hums the
worst. Not totally obnoxious, but really annoying.

It seems that today's equipment(for the most part) doesn't have any
provisions for a "reverse" switch on the amps, and with three-prong
plugs it's kind of hard to do the old "turn-the-plug-around" trick.

Even with a reverse switch, I've seen instances where when flipped the
hum only got louder.

The manager says all the bar/ kitchen equipment is in good order, ,
but that's left to be seen.

So my question is, does anyone here know of any type of device/ power
bar etc, that can help compensate for this type of a problem?
All these players have good late model quality equipment and this is
the only venue they have this problem.

it's a good gig for them but event the patrons come and ask them
"what's the hum?" They don't know, I don't know.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Tim, sometimes, and just sometimes, even the cheap Furman power
conditioners will improve the hum. If the hum is pickup induced,
humbuckers seem to be better at reducing that noise. See if any of
them have an old Les Paul or some such with humbuckers and see if they
are as noisy. The noise could be because of something obscure, like
one bad flourescent fixture, one crappy neon beer sign, etc. Have them
move around and see if the noise gets worse or better. That would
indicate something close to them like a fixture or sign.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good thoughts. I think it has domething to do with the lighing myself.
They have turned on amps one by one trying o see if there equipment is
the source of the problem, but they all hum, not only collectivly but
individually.

It's gotta be in the lights. But I'll suggest they try different
outlets and positions though.

It should be easy enough to check for the lights as the source by
simply turning them off for a moment.

I've seen some really bad wiring "upgrades" done to older buildings.
Grounded outlets installed with no ground connection, ground conductor
and/or metal conduit carrying the neutral current (!), the classic hot/
neutral reversal, etc. *A good piece of equipment to carry around is
one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/ELECTRICAL-REC...ET-PRONG/dp/B0...

Of course you can do the same thing with an VOM, but these things are
a great go/no-go quick indicator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Didn't think of that, Jack. Turn off the lights first would be a good
eliminator to see if that was it. I haven't been in the building
itself but I do think it's flourecent lighting.

On Jan 4, 11:06*am, Tim wrote:
On Jan 4, 9:52*am, Jack wrote:





On Jan 4, 10:23*am, Tim wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:13*am, Loogypicker wrote:

On Jan 4, 10:00*am, Tim wrote:

Its a long shot, but I was hoping that Gene or others with good
electrical experience might help.

Well, some friends of mine have a pretty good local band, and they
play at various venues around a tri-county area. OK, so I went up
town
to hear them Sat. and one member and I got to talking on their break
and he asked me so i thought I'd try to get some ideas here.

One place they play is an older brick building with everything that
can plague an older brick building.

I'm sure the wiring is sub-standard and I dont' know if it has
fluorescent lights causing fits or not. But all the amps and PA have
a
"hummmmmm" that they can't get rid of. The guitarists amp hums the
worst. Not totally obnoxious, but really annoying.

It seems that today's equipment(for the most part) doesn't have any
provisions for a "reverse" switch on the amps, and with three-prong
plugs it's kind of hard to do the old "turn-the-plug-around" trick.

Even with a reverse switch, I've seen instances where when flipped the
hum only got louder.

The manager says all the bar/ kitchen equipment is in good order, ,
but that's left to be seen.

So my question is, does anyone here know of any type of device/ power
bar etc, that can help compensate for this type of a problem?
All these players have good late model quality equipment and this is
the only venue they have this problem.

it's a good gig for them but event the patrons come and ask them
"what's the hum?" They don't know, I don't know.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Tim, sometimes, and just sometimes, even the cheap Furman power
conditioners will improve the hum. If the hum is pickup induced,
humbuckers seem to be better at reducing that noise. See if any of
them have an old Les Paul or some such with humbuckers and see if they
are as noisy. The noise could be because of something obscure, like
one bad flourescent fixture, one crappy neon beer sign, etc. Have them
move around and see if the noise gets worse or better. That would
indicate something close to them like a fixture or sign.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good thoughts. I think it has domething to do with the lighing myself..
They have turned on amps one by one trying o see if there equipment is
the source of the problem, but they all hum, not only collectivly but
individually.

It's gotta be in the lights. But I'll suggest they try different
outlets and positions though.

It should be easy enough to check for the lights as the source by
simply turning them off for a moment.

I've seen some really bad wiring "upgrades" done to older buildings.
Grounded outlets installed with no ground connection, ground conductor
and/or metal conduit carrying the neutral current (!), the classic hot/
neutral reversal, etc. *A good piece of equipment to carry around is
one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/ELECTRICAL-REC...ET-PRONG/dp/B0...

Of course you can do the same thing with an VOM, but these things are
a great go/no-go quick indicator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Didn't think of that, Jack. Turn off the lights first would be a good
eliminator to see if that was it. *I haven't been in the building
itself but I do think it's flourecent lighting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If it's just the one venue, they may try running a dedicated circuit
to eliminate noise from different sources. But, I'm betting there's a
light or something screwing with the amps. One simple test to see if
it's the AC signal or airborne RF is to unplug the guitar from the
amp. If the amp still hums, it's PROBABLTY the AC side of things,
although as you well know, it still could be the amp picking up RF. If
not, I'll go back to my original bad light or sign!

On Jan 4, 10:04*am, Tim wrote:
On Jan 4, 10:00*am, I am Tosk wrote:





In article 197db70b-8619-4665-b3a4-63236cad6414
@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

Its a long shot, but I was hoping that Gene or others with good
electrical experience might help.

Well, some friends of mine have a pretty good local band, and they
play at various venues around a tri-county area. OK, so I went up
town
to hear them Sat. and one member and I got to talking on their break
and he asked me so i thought I'd try to get some ideas here.

One place they play is an older brick building with everything that
can plague an older brick building.

I'm sure the wiring is sub-standard and I dont' know if it has
fluorescent lights causing fits or not. But all the amps and PA have
a
"hummmmmm" that they can't get rid of. The guitarists amp hums the
worst. Not totally obnoxious, but really annoying.

It seems that today's equipment(for the most part) doesn't have any
provisions for a "reverse" switch on the amps, and with three-prong
plugs it's kind of hard to do the old "turn-the-plug-around" trick.

Even with a reverse switch, I've seen instances where when flipped the
hum only got louder.

The manager says all the bar/ kitchen equipment is in good order, ,
but that's left to be seen.

So my question is, does anyone here know of any type of device/ power
bar etc, that can help compensate for this type of a problem?
All these players have good late model quality equipment and this is
the only venue they have this problem.

it's a good gig for them but event the patrons come and ask them
"what's the hum?" They don't know, I don't know.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Call Dick...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I posted over on his board and haven't gotten a reply yet.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wow. I spoke too soon. Here's the reply I got when I checked his
board:


You may need to experiment at the venue and with the owner's help to
identify the source of the problem. Tell him that patrons are
complaining and you want to see if you can cure it.

I think it depends on the source of the hum or 60 hertz noise.
If it's RFI radiating from lighting fixtures like florensent lights or
other ballast type devices, you should be able to tell by simply
turning the lights off temporarily. Older equipment in the place could
also be introducing it either via RFI or on the AC line.
With the owner's permission and help, set up an amp with a guitar
plugged in, turn up the volume until the hum is very noticeable and
then, one by one, have someone turn off each circuit breaker in the
power distribution box. See if any of them dramatically reduces the
hum and then see what electrical device is powered from that breaker.
Older electrical appliances and equipment can actually introduce 60
hertz hum in the power lines, particularly if they draw high currents
when running.

http://www.federalpacific.com/litera...ormernoise.pdf

Another possible solution is to power the band's amps through one or
two devices called an "Electrostatically Shielded Isolation
Transformer". These transformers do not step the voltage up or down.
They are used to isolate the load side from the primary voltage
source. I'd check with a local electrician regarding the use of them.
They need to be sized appropriately for your equipment's current draw.

Another possible solution may be to use a power conditioning unit.
"Monster" and others build units that have both active and passive
filters in them. They are typically used in higher end home theater or
audio gear applications.

Here's some info on isolation transformers:
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/co...m-hum-and-buzz

and here's some info for those of us that like screwing around with
old, vintage guitar amps and have lived to talk about it:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Isol...d-guitar-amps/

RCE

On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:00:44 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

it's a good gig for them but event the patrons come and ask them
"what's the hum?" They don't know, I don't know.

I'm with Jack on this one - probably the lights. Bassy had a good
suggestion for a power conditioner and they are relatively
inexpensive.

Tha being said, it could just plain flat out be dirty power and/or low
voltage when everything is plugged in. I'd bet money the circuit
breakers are corroded - had that happen here at my house when we first
bought it - took me about a week to figure out why my MacIntosh 50s
were humming like crazy.

The only thing to do is to either condition the power which may or may
not help or supply a seperate source of power for the amps.