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Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 05:09:33 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: What is really scary, other than your IQ, is that no WMD's were found! Where did they go? IS a known fact he had them, even your beloved Clinton believed the fact, especially the proven fact he used them on his own people as well as Iranians. Which country is the holder of the weapons now? They scary fact is that zero has been found. Means that there was a very complete transfer out of the country. Bill The word is, there were a large number of military and civilian tractor trailer rigs, loaded, crossing into Seria and Iran weeks before the war started, and returning empty. And they were heavily guarded. Saddams bullion? WMD? No one knows, yet. Gunner snip Great, now the right wing PNAC loonies are going to march the USA into spending 180 billion a year on Syria and Iran! And they still won't find any WMDs. Mark Browne P.S. Time for a regime change in Washington! |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... What is really scary, other than your IQ, is that no WMD's were found! Where did they go? IS a known fact he had them, even your beloved Clinton believed the fact, especially the proven fact he used them on his own people as well as Iranians. Which country is the holder of the weapons now? They scary fact is that zero has been found. Means that there was a very complete transfer out of the country. Bill snip Used them - like - all up; there is nothing left to find. Mark Browne |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
Gunner wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 05:09:33 GMT, "Calif Bill" wrote: What is really scary, other than your IQ, is that no WMD's were found! Where did they go? IS a known fact he had them, even your beloved Clinton believed the fact, especially the proven fact he used them on his own people as well as Iranians. Which country is the holder of the weapons now? They scary fact is that zero has been found. Means that there was a very complete transfer out of the country. Bill The word is, there were a large number of military and civilian tractor trailer rigs, loaded, crossing into Seria and Iran weeks before the war started, and returning empty. And they were heavily guarded. Saddams bullion? WMD? No one knows, yet. Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke Why do you think the axis of weasel was so active during the final few weeks before the war? Fact is if we ever do find the stuff, it will have France, Germany, and Russia all over it... |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net... What is really scary, other than your IQ, is that no WMD's were found! Where did they go? IS a known fact he had them, even your beloved Clinton believed the fact, especially the proven fact he used them on his own people as well as Iranians. Which country is the holder of the weapons now? They scary fact is that zero has been found. Means that there was a very complete transfer out of the country. Bill How about "means that they were used up"? Any chance of that? The "used against his own people" thing happened more than just a few years ago. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Mark Browne" wrote in message news:cLZ8b.445300$uu5.78581@sccrnsc04... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... What is really scary, other than your IQ, is that no WMD's were found! Where did they go? IS a known fact he had them, even your beloved Clinton believed the fact, especially the proven fact he used them on his own people as well as Iranians. Which country is the holder of the weapons now? They scary fact is that zero has been found. Means that there was a very complete transfer out of the country. Bill snip Used them - like - all up; there is nothing left to find. Mark Browne ROTFLMAO!!!! Hey Mark, I have some nice swamp land for you to buy. BTW, where and when did he use them all up? |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Jim -" wrote in message news:Hb_8b.445493$uu5.78735@sccrnsc04... "Mark Browne" wrote in message news:cLZ8b.445300$uu5.78581@sccrnsc04... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... What is really scary, other than your IQ, is that no WMD's were found! Where did they go? IS a known fact he had them, even your beloved Clinton believed the fact, especially the proven fact he used them on his own people as well as Iranians. Which country is the holder of the weapons now? They scary fact is that zero has been found. Means that there was a very complete transfer out of the country. Bill snip Used them - like - all up; there is nothing left to find. Mark Browne ROTFLMAO!!!! Hey Mark, I have some nice swamp land for you to buy. BTW, where and when did he use them all up? Have you been sleeping throught the last twenty or so years? I am not normally a fan of clip and paste politics, but your question does not merit the work of personally answering: Hypocrisy Seen in U.S. Stand on Iraqi Arms Mideast: Officials say American intelligence aided Baghdad's use of chemical weapons against Iran in '80s. By ROBIN WRIGHT, Times Staff Writer WASHINGTON--A decade before the current showdown over weapons of mass destruction, the United States turned a blind eye when Iraq used American intelligence for operations against Iran that made rampant use of chemical weapons and ballistic missiles, according to senior administration and former intelligence officials. The attacks against civilian and military targets during the Iran-Iraq War included some of the most pervasive uses of chemical weapons anywhere since World War I. The combination of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and American intelligence eventually helped turn the tide of the eight-year war in Baghdad's favor. The collaboration reached a peak shortly after a secret U.S. estimate projected for the first time that Iran could win one of the century's bloodiest wars. "We knew [the Iraqis] used chemicals in any major campaign," said a former U.S. intelligence official familiar with the American role. "Although we publicly opposed the use of chemical weapons anywhere in the world, we knew the intelligence we gave the Iraqis would be used to develop their own operational plans for chemical weapons." Now, 10 years later, the United States is trying to rally world support for the use of military strikes to destroy the same kinds of Iraqi weapons-on the grounds that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein should not be allowed to use them in the future. As the U.S. struggles to assemble a new coalition to force Iraq to give up such weapons, Clinton administration officials acknowledge the apparent hypocrisy in U.S. policy. The United States, under President Reagan, "virtually encouraged" the use of chemical weapons a decade ago, noted a frustrated senior Clinton administration official. But the shift also reflects changes in the political landscape, U.S. officials now argue. In the 1980s, "Saddam Hussein was the great white hope" holding back what was then viewed as a militant Islamic tide from Iran, the administration official said. "They built this guy up and let him do whatever it took to win. And that included the use of chemical weapons and ballistic missiles." The climax of the relationship was the 1988 Iraqi counterattack at the Faw Peninsula, a swampy but strategic southern oil port captured by Iran in 1986. Iraq lost the peninsula in part because U.S. intelligence misread an Iranian military buildup. To help regain the peninsula, U.S. intelligence sources provided data on Iran's equipment and troop strength that guided the Iraqi military in designing and staging a dress rehearsal of the offensive, the sources say. Washington had an "additional incentive" to provide detailed data because of its role in the loss of Faw, a former U.S. diplomat said. Iraq's 1988 counterattack was a rapid success. And the casualties were among the grisliest of the war. Thousands of Iranian troops were killed, many because gas masks did not fit snugly enough over their beards and thus allowed seepage of lethal toxins. Empty syringes, some of which had contained a faulty antidote, were found beside hundreds of bodies, the sources said. The Reagan administration never actively encouraged Iraq's use of chemical weapons or missiles. And officially, it was neutral in the Iran-Iraq War. But Washington was well aware that Iraq began using chemical weapons in 1983 and intensified their use in 1986, creating a pattern that made it virtually impossible not to know that Iraq intended to use chemical weapons on the Faw Peninsula, former intelligence officials said. "By 1986, Iraq had proven itself better at the use of chemical weapons than any fighting force in the world," said a former senior U.S. diplomat involved in Iraq. By 1988, Iraq's use of gases had also repeatedly been documented by U.N. specialists. "It was all done with a wink and a nod," said a former U.S. intelligence official. "We knew exactly where this stuff was going, although we bent over backwards to look the other way." Washington knew Iraq was "dumping boatloads" of chemical weapons on Iranian positions, he added. Missiles were also pivotal in turning the war in Iraq's favor, especially when Iraq fired Russian-made Scuds on Iranian civilian areas and major cities, including Tehran. The "war of the cities," during which Iran also targeted Iraq, eventually gave better-equipped Iraq a strong psychological edge in the conflict. Today, Reagan administration officials contend that they could not have prevented Hussein's use of weapons of mass destruction. "Get real. We couldn't have stopped him," (my note: so they provided him with assistance and intelligence instead?) said a former National Security Councilstaffer. "The Iraqis were fighting for survival." (my note: they were the invadeders!) Policy at the time, said another former Reagan official, recognized that "Hussein is a *******. But at the time, he was our *******." Ironically, the most difficult task initially was persuading the Iraqis to believe U.S. intelligence data. "We gave them so much help with intelligence in the conduct of overall campaigns-showing them where Iran was moving troops, where it was most vulnerable, and projecting how to exploit both to their advantage," the former intelligence official said. At first, Iraq ignored or discarded much of the American data. "It took a long time for them to trust us and listen to us," the official said. "Eventually, it sunk in that we were telling them what they needed to know." The Faw operation was the high point of a blooming relationship between Baghdad and Washington that was founded on a common fear of and deep enmity toward Iran. It overcame more fundamental differences over Israel that led Iraq to sever relations with the U.S. in 1967. After relations resumed in 1984, U.S. intelligence agents began to provide data about Iran's military operations, largely from satellite photography. The goal at one stage was to provide a counterweight to the supply of arms and intelligence the Reagan administration was providing to Iran as part of the 1985-86 arms-for-hostages swap, according to Reagan administration officials. But in 1986, as the Iran-Iraq War began to turn decisively in Iran's favor, the pace of U.S. intelligence information escalated as part of a bid to at least restore Iraq's edge. The United States was not alone. In advance of the Faw counteroffensive, France, Egypt and Jordan provided help in reorganizing and retraining the weary Iraqi military, Reagan administration officials point out. And the very countries now most threatened by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction helped pay for them, according to U.S. officials. Of the $100 billion Iraq spent on arms during the 1980s, up to $40 billion was provided by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates, either in cash or in free oil. Copyright Los Angeles Times |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Mark Browne" wrote in message news:iv_8b.443180$Ho3.71632@sccrnsc03... "Jim -" wrote in message news:Hb_8b.445493$uu5.78735@sccrnsc04... "Mark Browne" wrote in message news:cLZ8b.445300$uu5.78581@sccrnsc04... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... What is really scary, other than your IQ, is that no WMD's were found! Where did they go? IS a known fact he had them, even your beloved Clinton believed the fact, especially the proven fact he used them on his own people as well as Iranians. Which country is the holder of the weapons now? They scary fact is that zero has been found. Means that there was a very complete transfer out of the country. Bill snip Used them - like - all up; there is nothing left to find. Mark Browne ROTFLMAO!!!! Hey Mark, I have some nice swamp land for you to buy. BTW, where and when did he use them all up? Hypocrisy Seen in U.S. Stand on Iraqi Arms Mideast: Officials say American intelligence aided Baghdad's use of chemical weapons against Iran in '80s. By ROBIN WRIGHT, Times Staff Writer WASHINGTON--A decade before the current showdown over weapons of mass destruction, the United States turned a blind eye when Iraq used American intelligence for operations against Iran that made rampant use of chemical weapons and ballistic missiles, according to senior administration and former intelligence officials. The attacks against civilian and military targets during the Iran-Iraq War included some of the most pervasive uses of chemical weapons anywhere since World War I. The combination of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and American intelligence eventually helped turn the tide of the eight-year war in Baghdad's favor. The collaboration reached a peak shortly after a secret U.S. estimate projected for the first time that Iran could win one of the century's bloodiest wars. "We knew [the Iraqis] used chemicals in any major campaign," said a former U.S. intelligence official familiar with the American role. "Although we publicly opposed the use of chemical weapons anywhere in the world, we knew the intelligence we gave the Iraqis would be used to develop their own operational plans for chemical weapons." Now, 10 years later, the United States is trying to rally world support for the use of military strikes to destroy the same kinds of Iraqi weapons-on the grounds that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein should not be allowed to use them in the future. As the U.S. struggles to assemble a new coalition to force Iraq to give up such weapons, Clinton administration officials acknowledge the apparent hypocrisy in U.S. policy. The United States, under President Reagan, "virtually encouraged" the use of chemical weapons a decade ago, noted a frustrated senior Clinton administration official. But the shift also reflects changes in the political landscape, U.S. officials now argue. In the 1980s, "Saddam Hussein was the great white hope" holding back what was then viewed as a militant Islamic tide from Iran, the administration official said. "They built this guy up and let him do whatever it took to win. And that included the use of chemical weapons and ballistic missiles." The climax of the relationship was the 1988 Iraqi counterattack at the Faw Peninsula, a swampy but strategic southern oil port captured by Iran in 1986. Iraq lost the peninsula in part because U.S. intelligence misread an Iranian military buildup. To help regain the peninsula, U.S. intelligence sources provided data on Iran's equipment and troop strength that guided the Iraqi military in designing and staging a dress rehearsal of the offensive, the sources say. Washington had an "additional incentive" to provide detailed data because of its role in the loss of Faw, a former U.S. diplomat said. Iraq's 1988 counterattack was a rapid success. And the casualties were among the grisliest of the war. Thousands of Iranian troops were killed, many because gas masks did not fit snugly enough over their beards and thus allowed seepage of lethal toxins. Empty syringes, some of which had contained a faulty antidote, were found beside hundreds of bodies, the sources said. The Reagan administration never actively encouraged Iraq's use of chemical weapons or missiles. And officially, it was neutral in the Iran-Iraq War. But Washington was well aware that Iraq began using chemical weapons in 1983 and intensified their use in 1986, creating a pattern that made it virtually impossible not to know that Iraq intended to use chemical weapons on the Faw Peninsula, former intelligence officials said. "By 1986, Iraq had proven itself better at the use of chemical weapons than any fighting force in the world," said a former senior U.S. diplomat involved in Iraq. By 1988, Iraq's use of gases had also repeatedly been documented by U.N. specialists. "It was all done with a wink and a nod," said a former U.S. intelligence official. "We knew exactly where this stuff was going, although we bent over backwards to look the other way." Washington knew Iraq was "dumping boatloads" of chemical weapons on Iranian positions, he added. Missiles were also pivotal in turning the war in Iraq's favor, especially when Iraq fired Russian-made Scuds on Iranian civilian areas and major cities, including Tehran. The "war of the cities," during which Iran also targeted Iraq, eventually gave better-equipped Iraq a strong psychological edge in the conflict. Today, Reagan administration officials contend that they could not have prevented Hussein's use of weapons of mass destruction. "Get real. We couldn't have stopped him," (my note: so they provided him with assistance and intelligence instead?) said a former National Security Councilstaffer. "The Iraqis were fighting for survival." (my note: they were the invadeders!) Policy at the time, said another former Reagan official, recognized that "Hussein is a *******. But at the time, he was our *******." Ironically, the most difficult task initially was persuading the Iraqis to believe U.S. intelligence data. "We gave them so much help with intelligence in the conduct of overall campaigns-showing them where Iran was moving troops, where it was most vulnerable, and projecting how to exploit both to their advantage," the former intelligence official said. At first, Iraq ignored or discarded much of the American data. "It took a long time for them to trust us and listen to us," the official said. "Eventually, it sunk in that we were telling them what they needed to know." The Faw operation was the high point of a blooming relationship between Baghdad and Washington that was founded on a common fear of and deep enmity toward Iran. It overcame more fundamental differences over Israel that led Iraq to sever relations with the U.S. in 1967. After relations resumed in 1984, U.S. intelligence agents began to provide data about Iran's military operations, largely from satellite photography. The goal at one stage was to provide a counterweight to the supply of arms and intelligence the Reagan administration was providing to Iran as part of the 1985-86 arms-for-hostages swap, according to Reagan administration officials. But in 1986, as the Iran-Iraq War began to turn decisively in Iran's favor, the pace of U.S. intelligence information escalated as part of a bid to at least restore Iraq's edge. The United States was not alone. In advance of the Faw counteroffensive, France, Egypt and Jordan provided help in reorganizing and retraining the weary Iraqi military, Reagan administration officials point out. And the very countries now most threatened by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction helped pay for them, according to U.S. officials. Of the $100 billion Iraq spent on arms during the 1980s, up to $40 billion was provided by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates, either in cash or in free oil. Copyright Los Angeles Times And because they reported it, it must be true. Lets see, the story talks about the 1980's. Even Iraq admitted to having WOMD in the 1990's in their reports to the UN. So where did they go Mark? Have you been sleeping throught the last twenty or so years? I am not normally a fan of clip and paste politics, but your question does not merit the work of personally answering: Translation: I am not able to. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report:press
Jim - wrote:
"Mark Browne" wrote in message news:iv_8b.443180$Ho3.71632@sccrnsc03... So where did they go Mark? Have you been sleeping throught the last twenty or so years? I am not normally a fan of clip and paste politics, but your question does not merit the work of personally answering: Translation: I am not able to. I don't usually even read "Jim's" posts, but he's posted yet another example of the typical dumber-than-dirt-yet-smug-in-his-ignorance right-wing interpretation of someone yet again telling him that what he's posted simply isn't worth the effort of a reasoned response. Here's a hint, Jim: Mark is *able* to respond, but your post isn't worth the effort. Now, go give a few of your right-wing buddies the usual high five, eh? Stupid is as stupid does. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
snip
And because they reported it, it must be true. Sounds good to me; it does dovetail rather nicely with what I have personally experienced when traveling in the middle east. This is in rather sharp contrast with much of what has been said by people of the PNAC persuasion. Lets see, the story talks about the 1980's. Even Iraq admitted to having WOMD in the 1990's in their reports to the UN. So where did they go Mark? They said they destroyed them, and so far, it seems to be the truth. You do seem to think a lot of your opinion about how clueless the inspectors are. Perhaps you wish to go over to the middle east and show these stupid inspectors how to search of the "missing" WMDs. I have a shovel, if you want to go over and dig up the missing weapons I would be happy to borrow it to you. Until then, the preponderance of evidence is that the weapons are destroyed. Have you been sleeping through the last twenty or so years? I am not normally a fan of clip and paste politics, but your question does not merit the work of personally answering: Translation: I am not able to. Your provocation does not change the amount of effort I care to expend on answering you. You could take my statement face value and realize that I really don't think that responding to you is worth a lot of effort. Now if you showed any signs that you have done the work and actually understood the issues it might be a different answer. When you offer a thought provoking post, I will think about it and get back to you. I am still working though your post on the veracity biblical texts. Mark Browne |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
In article GJZ8b.442022$o%2.199341@sccrnsc02, Mark Browne
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message ... The word is, there were a large number of military and civilian tractor trailer rigs, loaded, crossing into Seria and Iran weeks before the war started, and returning empty. And they were heavily guarded. Saddams bullion? WMD? No one knows, yet. Gunner snip Great, now the right wing PNAC loonies are going to march the USA into spending 180 billion a year on Syria and Iran! And they still won't find any WMDs. Al Qaida was never the real problem...Afghanistan was! Whoops. Afghanista was never the real problem...Iraq was! Whoops. Iraq was never the real problem...Iran, Syria, Pakistan, and Jordan are the _real_ problems! We dare not mention Saudi Arabia, as they are our most important ally in the region. Besides, they don't let women vote or drive, they ban Xtian and Jewish churches...they are true "compassionate conservatives." Our kind of people. The fact that 17 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and _none_ came from either Afghanistan or Iraq means nothing. The fact that three Saudi princelings were the main money source for the hijackers means nothing. Saudi Arabia is our friend, so we will invade and occupy their enemies. While they laugh. And prepare for the next attack on the infidels. --Tim May |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Mark Browne" wrote in message news:by%8b.442621$o%2.199255@sccrnsc02... snip And because they reported it, it must be true. Sounds good to me; it does dovetail rather nicely with what I have personally experienced when traveling in the middle east. This is in rather sharp contrast with much of what has been said by people of the PNAC persuasion. Lets see, the story talks about the 1980's. Even Iraq admitted to having WOMD in the 1990's in their reports to the UN. So where did they go Mark? They said they destroyed them, and so far, it seems to be the truth. So how did Saddam earn credibility in your eyes? Was it his rape and torture chambers or his mass killings of his own citizens? You do seem to think a lot of your opinion about how clueless the inspectors are. Where did I say or infer that? Perhaps you wish to go over to the middle east and show these stupid inspectors how to search of the "missing" WMDs. I have a shovel, if you want to go over and dig up the missing weapons I would be happy to borrow it to you. Until then, the preponderance of evidence is that the weapons are destroyed. How do you borrow a shovel to another person Mark? Regardless, even Hans Blix thought the WOMD existed as late as February of this year: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/14/sprj.irq.un/ "In their third progress report since U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441 was passed in November, inspectors told the council they had not found any weapons of mass destruction, but they urged Iraq to be more cooperative. Hans Blix, executive chairman of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission, and Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said they were still investigating and had not ruled out the possibility that Iraq does possess chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. Blix said perhaps the most important inspection issue is determining what happened to stores of anthrax, VX nerve agent and long-range missiles that Iraq previously was known to have. One document suggests that "some 1,000 tons of chemical agent were unaccounted for," but Baghdad has begun to provide more information that could help lead to answers, Blix added. He said it is Baghdad's responsibility -- "not the task of inspectors" -- to find such evidence, he said. He said Iraq's al-Samoud 2 model of missile exceeds the range of 93 miles (150 kilometers) allowed by U.N. resolutions. Iraqi officials have said the missile does not yet have a guidance system, which would reduce its range. Blix also said a small number of empty chemical munitions had been found, "which should have been declared and destroyed." Have you been sleeping through the last twenty or so years? I am not normally a fan of clip and paste politics, but your question does not merit the work of personally answering: Translation: I am not able to. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report:press
Tim May wrote:
In article GJZ8b.442022$o%2.199341@sccrnsc02, Mark Browne wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message ... The word is, there were a large number of military and civilian tractor trailer rigs, loaded, crossing into Seria and Iran weeks before the war started, and returning empty. And they were heavily guarded. Saddams bullion? WMD? No one knows, yet. Gunner snip Great, now the right wing PNAC loonies are going to march the USA into spending 180 billion a year on Syria and Iran! And they still won't find any WMDs. Al Qaida was never the real problem...Afghanistan was! Whoops. Afghanista was never the real problem...Iraq was! Whoops. Iraq was never the real problem...Iran, Syria, Pakistan, and Jordan are the _real_ problems! We dare not mention Saudi Arabia, as they are our most important ally in the region. Besides, they don't let women vote or drive, they ban Xtian and Jewish churches...they are true "compassionate conservatives." Our kind of people. The fact that 17 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and _none_ came from either Afghanistan or Iraq means nothing. The fact that three Saudi princelings were the main money source for the hijackers means nothing. Saudi Arabia is our friend, so we will invade and occupy their enemies. While they laugh. And prepare for the next attack on the infidels. --Tim May The Saudi ruling class is without question the absolute scum of the earth. Bankrolling terrorism is only one of that society's affronts. There's no question it fosters and encourages hatred of the West. Over the years, the Saudi ruling class representatives who live in Washington, D.C., have been caught - literally - keeping house slaves in their residences. They import ignorant and poor Muslim house servants from third-world countries, take away their Green Cards when they arrive here and force them to work at very low or no wages while terrorizing them against leaving the household, even for doctor's appointments. I've found it very telling that the Bush family has long had close ties to the Saudi royal family, and that the current Bush president even socializes with one of the pig Saudi princes. And what is the Bush administration going to do about Saudi Arabia and the Saudi ruling class? Nothing, of course. * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:30:22 -0700, Tim May
wrote: In article GJZ8b.442022$o%2.199341@sccrnsc02, Mark Browne wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message ... The word is, there were a large number of military and civilian tractor trailer rigs, loaded, crossing into Seria and Iran weeks before the war started, and returning empty. And they were heavily guarded. Saddams bullion? WMD? No one knows, yet. Gunner snip Great, now the right wing PNAC loonies are going to march the USA into spending 180 billion a year on Syria and Iran! And they still won't find any WMDs. Al Qaida was never the real problem...Afghanistan was! Whoops. Afghanista was never the real problem...Iraq was! Whoops. Iraq was never the real problem...Iran, Syria, Pakistan, and Jordan are the _real_ problems! We dare not mention Saudi Arabia, as they are our most important ally in the region. Besides, they don't let women vote or drive, they ban Xtian and Jewish churches...they are true "compassionate conservatives." Our kind of people. The fact that 17 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and _none_ came from either Afghanistan or Iraq means nothing. The fact that three Saudi princelings were the main money source for the hijackers means nothing. Saudi Arabia is our friend, so we will invade and occupy their enemies. While they laugh. And prepare for the next attack on the infidels. --Tim May You do realize that all three of those princelings have died since 9/11, are you not? Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:19:00 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: Jim - wrote: "Mark Browne" wrote in message news:iv_8b.443180$Ho3.71632@sccrnsc03... So where did they go Mark? Have you been sleeping throught the last twenty or so years? I am not normally a fan of clip and paste politics, but your question does not merit the work of personally answering: Translation: I am not able to. Stupid is as stupid does. Which is why Harry posts on subjects he is underqualified to comment on. You also are evidently prone to that. Ok guys..the UN report in the late 1990s, stated catagoricly that Iraq had some moderately massive amounts of WMD. Then the UN inspectors were kicked out. So you folks are claiming that Saddam, in an act of pure altruism, destroyed the WMD, when no one was looking. WMD that he has spent billions on developing. There is no half life on most Chemical agents. Biological ones, if not fed or left unfrozen, yes. I further note that you folks are claiming that Saddam used up all the WMD in the Iraq/Iran war, a number (10) yrs before the UN report came out. Unless he owns a time machine and his military supply train extends backwards in time..you have a problem with this statement. Its at the least, to put it nicely..in error... Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Tim May" wrote in message
... Al Qaida was never the real problem...Afghanistan was! Whoops. Afghanista was never the real problem...Iraq was! Whoops. Iraq was never the real problem...Iran, Syria, Pakistan, and Jordan are the _real_ problems! We're already in South Asia, as "advisors". That gets quiet mention in the news. People who think "advisors" means "advisors" think it's fine, and go back to jerking off to the Simpsons, a nightly ritual. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:11:03 GMT, "Mark Browne"
wrote: They said they destroyed them, and so far, it seems to be the truth. You do seem to think a lot of your opinion about how clueless the inspectors are. Perhaps you wish to go over to the middle east and show these stupid inspectors how to search of the "missing" WMDs. I have a shovel, if you want to go over and dig up the missing weapons I would be happy to borrow it to you. Until then, the preponderance of evidence is that the weapons are destroyed. Ah..Mark..there is no evidence, other than a claim by Saddam, that they were destroyed. A paper trail. Period. And the paper trail itself had serious holes in it, given a number of WMD that simply did not appear in the claim, that the UN had indeed verified the Iraqis had in their arsenal. Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Jim -" wrote in message
news:Hb_8b.445493$uu5.78735@sccrnsc04... Used them - like - all up; there is nothing left to find. Mark Browne ROTFLMAO!!!! Hey Mark, I have some nice swamp land for you to buy. BTW, where and when did he use them all up? Maybe during all the incidents YOU alluded to, professor. You were there, right? |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Jim -" wrote in message
news:WF_8b.445638$uu5.78777@sccrnsc04... And because they reported it, it must be true. Idiot. Which news sources would you believe? Please provide real names of those sources. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Mark Browne" wrote in message Hypocrisy Seen in U.S. Stand on Iraqi Arms Mideast: Officials say ..... Now there's a reliable source.... "Mark Browne" wrote in message news:by% Sounds good to me; it does dovetail rather nicely with what I have personally experienced when traveling in the middle east. Did all your cab drivers and busboys assure you that there were no NBC weapons? I, too, have spent a substantial amount of time working in the mid-east, including Irag, Iran, and Afghanistan. There is no doubt in my mind that there has been connection between AQ and most of the countries in the region. There is also no doubt in my mind that there will never be any proof of same. JG |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report:press
John Gaquin wrote:
"Mark Browne" wrote in message Hypocrisy Seen in U.S. Stand on Iraqi Arms Mideast: Officials say ..... Now there's a reliable source.... "Mark Browne" wrote in message news:by% Sounds good to me; it does dovetail rather nicely with what I have personally experienced when traveling in the middle east. Did all your cab drivers and busboys assure you that there were no NBC weapons? I, too, have spent a substantial amount of time working in the mid-east, including Irag, Iran, and Afghanistan. There is no doubt in my mind that there has been connection between AQ and most of the countries in the region. There is also no doubt in my mind that there will never be any proof of same. JG Let's see... No provable connection to the terrorist network... No weapons of mass destruction... No proof Iraq was involved in 9-11... No Osama... And we're spending hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars in Iraq that would be far better spent in the U.S., or, even to help the truly impoverished people of the world... Wow...we're sure lucky we have a smirking chimp in the White House. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... John Gaquin wrote: "Mark Browne" wrote in message Hypocrisy Seen in U.S. Stand on Iraqi Arms Mideast: Officials say ..... Now there's a reliable source.... "Mark Browne" wrote in message news:by% Sounds good to me; it does dovetail rather nicely with what I have personally experienced when traveling in the middle east. Did all your cab drivers and busboys assure you that there were no NBC weapons? I, too, have spent a substantial amount of time working in the mid-east, including Irag, Iran, and Afghanistan. There is no doubt in my mind that there has been connection between AQ and most of the countries in the region. There is also no doubt in my mind that there will never be any proof of same. JG Let's see... No provable connection to the terrorist network... No weapons of mass destruction... No proof Iraq was involved in 9-11... No Osama... And we're spending hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars in Iraq that would be far better spent in the U.S., or, even to help the truly impoverished people of the world... Wow...we're sure lucky we have a smirking chimp in the White House. Secretary of State Colin Powell today regarding the cost of the war on terrorism: We will endure whatever costs it takes to win this war. It will certainly be cheaper in the long run and result in less civilian loss of lives than to have to relive another 9-11. That is our resolve. Like it or not Harry. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
In article , |3ill|3o
wrote: Please, DO NOT post off-topic discussions to a divorce support group! This was crossposted to 4 groups: alt.support.marriage alt.support.divorce misc.survivalism rec.boats Why are you crossposting this to misc.survivalism? Are you one of those fagboys or lesbians who need to be gutted and burned? --Tim May |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:07:39 -0700, Tim May
wrote: In article , |3ill|3o wrote: Please, DO NOT post off-topic discussions to a divorce support group! This was crossposted to 4 groups: alt.support.marriage alt.support.divorce misc.survivalism rec.boats Why are you crossposting this to misc.survivalism? S/he answered your question in the part you neatly snipped. And you call me a nitwit. Chuckle. Are you one of those fagboys or lesbians who need to be gutted and burned? Why do you care? Trying to get a date? Sue - among the honored 30 --Tim May |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:17:02 +0000, Jim - wrote:
Secretary of State Colin Powell today regarding the cost of the war on terrorism: We will endure whatever costs it takes to win this war. It will certainly be cheaper in the long run and result in less civilian loss of lives than to have to relive another 9-11. I would suggest this ignores the *innocent* civilian lives lost in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then, they are only ragheads, and the killing continues. That is our resolve. Like it or not Harry. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:05:01 -0400, thunder
wrote: On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 05:09:33 +0000, Calif Bill wrote: What is really scary, other than your IQ, is that no WMD's were found! Where did they go? IS a known fact he had them, even your beloved Clinton believed the fact, especially the proven fact he used them on his own people as well as Iranians. Which country is the holder of the weapons now? They scary fact is that zero has been found. Means that there was a very complete transfer out of the country. Bill Possibly, another explanation is that the UN inspectors were correct in their estimation that up to 98% of the weapons were already destroyed. Then they should have been able to point to where they were destroyed at. Also, you may want to consider that the weapons he had in the 1990s are no longer weapons. They do have a shelf live. biological, maybe. Chemical? Who knows. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:10:01 +0000, rickb308 wrote:
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:05:01 -0400, thunder wrote: On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 05:09:33 +0000, Calif Bill wrote: What is really scary, other than your IQ, is that no WMD's were found! Where did they go? IS a known fact he had them, even your beloved Clinton believed the fact, especially the proven fact he used them on his own people as well as Iranians. Which country is the holder of the weapons now? They scary fact is that zero has been found. Means that there was a very complete transfer out of the country. Bill Possibly, another explanation is that the UN inspectors were correct in their estimation that up to 98% of the weapons were already destroyed. Then they should have been able to point to where they were destroyed at. UN Inspectors have verified much of the destroyed weapons. The sticking point has always been the verification/documentation of the remaining weapons. There is much information on the internet about this, or do you actually believe that Iran would accept Iraq's WMD? The same weapons that they had seen first hand in the Iran Iraq War, a war that cost the Iranians 1/2 million people. Also, you may want to consider that the weapons he had in the 1990s are no longer weapons. They do have a shelf live. biological, maybe. Chemical? Who knows. Iraq was known to produce three nerve agents, sarin, tabun, and VX. Sarin and tabun have a shelf live of five years. It is not known that Iraq ever stabilized VX. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:56:51 -0400, thunder
wrote: On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:10:01 +0000, rickb308 wrote: On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:05:01 -0400, thunder wrote: On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 05:09:33 +0000, Calif Bill wrote: What is really scary, other than your IQ, is that no WMD's were found! Where did they go? IS a known fact he had them, even your beloved Clinton believed the fact, especially the proven fact he used them on his own people as well as Iranians. Which country is the holder of the weapons now? They scary fact is that zero has been found. Means that there was a very complete transfer out of the country. Bill Possibly, another explanation is that the UN inspectors were correct in their estimation that up to 98% of the weapons were already destroyed. Then they should have been able to point to where they were destroyed at. UN Inspectors have verified much of the destroyed weapons. The sticking point has always been the verification/documentation of the remaining weapons. There is much information on the internet about this, or do you actually believe that Iran would accept Iraq's WMD? The same weapons that they had seen first hand in the Iran Iraq War, a war that cost the Iranians 1/2 million people. Thinking more along the lines of Syria or Libya. Also, you may want to consider that the weapons he had in the 1990s are no longer weapons. They do have a shelf live. biological, maybe. Chemical? Who knows. Iraq was known to produce three nerve agents, sarin, tabun, and VX. Sarin and tabun have a shelf live of five years. It is not known that Iraq ever stabilized VX. Known. Key operating word. If we had "known", we would have gotten Saddam. We would have "known" where he was. Thanks to budget cuts, and not being able to hire "thieves", our humint assests were mighty thin on the ground. We don't "know" everything they did. Hell, we didn't "KNOW" that they buried 30 fully armed MIG fighters in the sand. We found those by accident. And we admitted they were found by accident. Would have been easy to claim we knew where THEY were. Rick Bowen TSRA Life Member NRA Member Without the 2nd Amendment, the rest are just suggestions. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
snip
Known. Key operating word. If we had "known", we would have gotten Saddam. We would have "known" where he was. Thanks to budget cuts, and not being able to hire "thieves", our humint assests were mighty thin on the ground. We don't "know" everything they did. Hell, we didn't "KNOW" that they buried 30 fully armed MIG fighters in the sand. We found those by accident. And we admitted they were found by accident. Would have been easy to claim we knew where THEY were. snip Saddam effectively destroyed these arms. A turbine does not take well to being buried in sand; without extensive refitting those birds will never fly again. I can't begin to imagine why he chose to comply with the orders to disarm, but not to let the inspectors verify the fact. One working theory: it may have been in Saddams best interest to make his neighbors think he still possessed them so that he could maintain some control of his political rivals. Mark Browne |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:50:55 GMT, "Mark Browne"
wrote: snip Known. Key operating word. If we had "known", we would have gotten Saddam. We would have "known" where he was. Thanks to budget cuts, and not being able to hire "thieves", our humint assests were mighty thin on the ground. We don't "know" everything they did. Hell, we didn't "KNOW" that they buried 30 fully armed MIG fighters in the sand. We found those by accident. And we admitted they were found by accident. Would have been easy to claim we knew where THEY were. snip Saddam effectively destroyed these arms. A turbine does not take well to being buried in sand; without extensive refitting those birds will never fly again. I can't begin to imagine why he chose to comply with the orders to disarm, but not to let the inspectors verify the fact. One working theory: it may have been in Saddams best interest to make his neighbors think he still possessed them so that he could maintain some control of his political rivals. Mark Browne Were they cucooned or were they simply bulldozed over? Gunner " ......The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age... I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity, bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity, fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We *assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation to keep the State out of the church business, we've destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*. Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
Mark Browne wrote:
I can't begin to imagine why he chose to comply with the orders to disarm, but not to let the inspectors verify the fact. One working theory: it may have been in Saddams best interest to make his neighbors think he still possessed them so that he could maintain some control of his political rivals. A good theory. But one that ultimately led to this war and his ultimate fall from power. Dave |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:58:11 -0500, rickb308 wrote:
Thinking more along the lines of Syria or Libya. I just don't see it. Since Reagan bombed Qaddafi, Libya has been trying to rehabilitate it's image. It recently accepted responsibility for the Pam Am bombing and paid reparations. Syria and Iraq may share a hatred for Israel, but Syria sided with Iran in the Iran-Iraq war. It is true that the relationship has been improving, but not to the point that they would be willing to risk our wrath by accepting Iraq's weapons. If you want to know about the WMD, I would look closer to home, to Rumsfeld's Office of Special Plans. I would suggest they cooked the intell on Iraq and I personally feel Rumsfeld should be fired. Some interesting reads: http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/030512fa_fact http://search.csmonitor.com/durable/1999/09/13/p7s1.htm http://www.meib.org/articles/0103_s1.htm |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:50:55 GMT, "Mark Browne" wrote: snip Known. Key operating word. If we had "known", we would have gotten Saddam. We would have "known" where he was. Thanks to budget cuts, and not being able to hire "thieves", our humint assests were mighty thin on the ground. We don't "know" everything they did. Hell, we didn't "KNOW" that they buried 30 fully armed MIG fighters in the sand. We found those by accident. And we admitted they were found by accident. Would have been easy to claim we knew where THEY were. snip Saddam effectively destroyed these arms. A turbine does not take well to being buried in sand; without extensive refitting those birds will never fly again. I can't begin to imagine why he chose to comply with the orders to disarm, but not to let the inspectors verify the fact. One working theory: it may have been in Saddams best interest to make his neighbors think he still possessed them so that he could maintain some control of his political rivals. Mark Browne Were they cucooned or were they simply bulldozed over? Gunner snip The pictures I saw looked like they had just dug a ditch, pushed them in, and covered them up. The sand was in direct contact with the birds. Mark Browne |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
wrote in message
... Known. Key operating word. Interesting article on the limits of intelligence: http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003_...n_julaug03.asp The title makes it sound like left-wing stuff, but read it anyway. It was just a poor choice of title, and the shortcomings described in the article apply to ANY administration. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Jim -" wrote in message et... "Mark Browne" wrote in message news:by%8b.442621$o%2.199255@sccrnsc02... snip And because they reported it, it must be true. Sounds good to me; it does dovetail rather nicely with what I have personally experienced when traveling in the middle east. This is in rather sharp contrast with much of what has been said by people of the PNAC persuasion. Lets see, the story talks about the 1980's. Even Iraq admitted to having WOMD in the 1990's in their reports to the UN. So where did they go Mark? They said they destroyed them, and so far, it seems to be the truth. So how did Saddam earn credibility in your eyes? Was it his rape and torture chambers or his mass killings of his own citizens? I am not aware Saddam raped people but in any case I do not think the poster was supporting Saddam Hussein. Where did he say that? Do you believe that if I do not support you then I must be supporting your enemy? By the way the US DID support Saddam. Rumsfeld oversaw the selling of Anthrax to Iraq. And theUS supported other regiems who tortured raped an killed people en masse. Suharto in Indonesia and Pinochet in chile spring to mind but there are many more. [snip] Perhaps you wish to go over to the middle east and show these stupid inspectors how to search of the "missing" WMDs. I have a shovel, if you want to go over and dig up the missing weapons I would be happy to borrow it to you. Until then, the preponderance of evidence is that the weapons are destroyed. How do you borrow a shovel to another person Mark? When you cant tackle the arguemt do you resort ot attacking the person? Regardless, even Hans Blix thought the WOMD existed as late as February of this year: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/14/sprj.irq.un/ "In their third progress report since U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441 was passed in November, inspectors told the council they had not found any weapons of mass destruction, but they urged Iraq to be more cooperative. Hans Blix, executive chairman of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission, and Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said they were still investigating and had not ruled out the possibility that Iraq does possess chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. Here is the original: http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/blix14Febasdel.htm Since we arrived in Iraq, we have conducted more than 400 inspections covering more than 300 sites. All inspections were performed without notice, and access was almost always provided promptly. In no case have we seen convincing evidence that the Iraqi side knew in advance that the inspectors were coming. The inspections have taken place throughout Iraq at industrial sites, ammunition depots, research centres, universities, presidential sites, mobile laboratories, private houses, missile production facilities, military camps and agricultural sites. At all sites which had been inspected before 1998, re-baselining activities were performed. This included the identification of the function and contents of each building, new or old, at a site. It also included verification of previously tagged equipment, application of seals and tags, taking samples and discussions with the site personnel regarding past and present activities. At certain sites, ground-penetrating radar was used to look for underground structures or buried equipment. Through the inspections conducted so far, we have obtained a good knowledge of the industrial and scientific landscape of Iraq, as well as of its missile capability but, as before, we do not know every cave and corner. Inspections are effectively helping to bridge the gap in knowledge that arose due to the absence of inspections between December 1998 and November 2002. More than 200 chemical and more than 100 biological samples have been collected at different sites. Three-quarters of these have been screened using our own analytical laboratory capabilities at the Baghdad Centre (BOMVIC). The results to date have been consistent with Iraq's declarations. .... How much, if any, is left of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and related proscribed items and programmes? So far, UNMOVIC has not found any such weapons, only a small number of empty chemical munitions, which should have been declared and destroyed. Another matter - and one of great significance - is that many proscribed weapons and items are not accounted for. To take an example, a document, which Iraq provided, suggested to us that some 1,000 tonnes of chemical agent were "unaccounted for". One must not jump to the conclusion that they exist. However, that possibility is also not excluded. If they exist, they should be presented for destruction. If they do not exist, credible evidence to that effect should be presented. We are fully aware that many governmental intelligence organizations are convinced and assert that proscribed weapons, items and programmes continue to exist. The US Secretary of State presented material in support of this conclusion. Governments have many sources of information that are not available to inspectors. Inspectors, for their part, must base their reports only on evidence, which they can, themselves, examine and present publicly. Without evidence, confidence cannot arise. [end qoutes] Blix said perhaps the most important inspection issue is determining what happened to stores of anthrax, VX nerve agent and long-range missiles that Iraq previously was known to have. So where are they? And if the US invaded Iraq for this (and they SWORE BLIND that the WMD existed) why haven't they left now? One document suggests that "some 1,000 tons of chemical agent were unaccounted for," but Baghdad has begun to provide more information that could help lead to answers, Blix added. Is this doccument part of the "evidence " the UK governmnet made up? [snip] He said Iraq's al-Samoud 2 model of missile exceeds the range of 93 miles (150 kilometers) allowed by U.N. resolutions. Iraqi officials have said the missile does not yet have a guidance system, which would reduce its range. They didn't exceed the range AFAIK. Can you prove they did? Blix also said a small number of empty chemical munitions had been found, "which should have been declared and destroyed." Look! The US invaded after promising loads and loads of WMD terrorist training camps etc. They didn't find any. so why dont they leave? Have you been sleeping through the last twenty or so years? I am not normally a fan of clip and paste politics, but your question does not merit the work of personally answering: Translation: I am not able to. Would that be the last twenty years when the US moved an Army into fundamentalist (women and jews cant vote) Saudi Arabia and sold Anthrax to iraq? |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:19:00 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Jim - wrote: "Mark Browne" wrote in message news:iv_8b.443180$Ho3.71632@sccrnsc03... So where did they go Mark? Have you been sleeping throught the last twenty or so years? I am not normally a fan of clip and paste politics, but your question does not merit the work of personally answering: Translation: I am not able to. Stupid is as stupid does. Which is why Harry posts on subjects he is underqualified to comment on. You also are evidently prone to that. Ok guys..the UN report in the late 1990s, stated catagoricly that Iraq had some moderately massive amounts of WMD. Yes rumsfeld had the receipts for the anthrax he sold to Iraq. So what? Then the UN inspectors were kicked out. So you folks are claiming that Saddam, in an act of pure altruism, destroyed the WMD, when no one was looking. Where is it? You are shifting the shoe onto the other foot. The US claimed evidence for WMD and claimed they were invading because of that threat. where is the evidence? and now that the threat is gone why aren't the US? WMD that he has spent billions on developing. There is no half life on most Chemical agents. Biological ones, if not fed or left unfrozen, yes. Chemical agents e.g SARIN SOMBAN TAMUN are highly volitale and denaturate rapidly on exposure to Air. One only has to open the container and stand well clear. Within a few hours the agent is gone. I further note that you folks are claiming that Saddam used up all the WMD in the Iraq/Iran war, I am claiming thast if Saddam had wmd and had the capability to launch them in 40 minutes (which the US/UK alliance claimed) then where are they? a number (10) yrs before the UN report came out. Unless he owns a time machine and his military supply train extends backwards in time..you have a problem with this statement. Its at the least, to put it nicely..in error... I suggest you get in your time machine and look at the point where the US supplied Saddam with WMD in the first place. Oh Tempora oh Mores! |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:11:03 GMT, "Mark Browne" wrote: They said they destroyed them, and so far, it seems to be the truth. You do seem to think a lot of your opinion about how clueless the inspectors are. Perhaps you wish to go over to the middle east and show these stupid inspectors how to search of the "missing" WMDs. I have a shovel, if you want to go over and dig up the missing weapons I would be happy to borrow it to you. Until then, the preponderance of evidence is that the weapons are destroyed. Ah..Mark..there is no evidence, other than a claim by Saddam, that they were destroyed. A paper trail. Period. And the paper trail itself had serious holes in it, given a number of WMD that simply did not appear in the claim, that the UN had indeed verified the Iraqis had in their arsenal. Ah gunner. If I accuse you of murder and you end up in court and the prosecution claim loads and loads of evidence is it then up to you to produce proof that you did not commit the murder? Or is it that you are assumed not to have done so and the prosecution have to actually produce the evidence? So where is this evidence? "I swrae your honour Exibhit A was there only last week" is not evidence. |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
wrote in message ... On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:56:51 -0400, thunder wrote: On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:10:01 +0000, rickb308 wrote: On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:05:01 -0400, thunder wrote: On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 05:09:33 +0000, Calif Bill wrote: What is really scary, other than your IQ, is that no WMD's were found! Where did they go? IS a known fact he had them, even your beloved Clinton believed the fact, especially the proven fact he used them on his own people as well as Iranians. Which country is the holder of the weapons now? They scary fact is that zero has been found. Means that there was a very complete transfer out of the country. Bill Possibly, another explanation is that the UN inspectors were correct in their estimation that up to 98% of the weapons were already destroyed. Then they should have been able to point to where they were destroyed at. UN Inspectors have verified much of the destroyed weapons. The sticking point has always been the verification/documentation of the remaining weapons. There is much information on the internet about this, or do you actually believe that Iran would accept Iraq's WMD? The same weapons that they had seen first hand in the Iran Iraq War, a war that cost the Iranians 1/2 million people. Thinking more along the lines of Syria or Libya. Oh so you invaded the WRONG country then? so it is okay then. So the evidence points to Libya (who you also sold weapons to ) or Syria? So you should invade them then because it is them who are the real problem? Bit of a US and them senario eh? Also, you may want to consider that the weapons he had in the 1990s are no longer weapons. They do have a shelf live. biological, maybe. Chemical? Who knows. Iraq was known to produce three nerve agents, sarin, tabun, and VX. Sarin and tabun have a shelf live of five years. It is not known that Iraq ever stabilized VX. Known. Key operating word. Known because the US (Rumsfeld oversaw it) SOLD them Anthrax etc. Key pot calling kettle black phrase. If we had "known", we would have gotten Saddam. Th Us did know. They SOLD him the stuff. We would have "known" where he was. Thanks to budget cuts, and not being able to hire "thieves", our humint assests were mighty thin on the ground. We don't "know" everything they did. Budget cuts bollox! The Us have spent $75 billion on the currebnt Iraq invasion. Haliburton (chaneys old employer) stand to gain $7 billion. This is afet almost going bankrupt before the War. Clinto built up a trillion dollars. do you look forward to your taxes increasing now that Bush has squandered the lot? Hell, we didn't "KNOW" that they buried 30 fully armed MIG fighters in the sand. But you knew that 400 migs had been flown to Iran in 1991. Lack of evidence of something is not proof of something else. you may not know Mr x committed rape. When you find out about Mr x does that mean Mr Y must be guilty of murder? We found those by accident. And we admitted they were found by accident. Would have been easy to claim we knew where THEY were. Really? so before you knew about accidental discoveries you can predict them. i might accidentaly win the lotto next week. care to predict the numbers for me? Without the 2nd Amendment, the rest are just suggestions. The 2nd Ammendment gives Us citizens the right to bear arms. does this include nukes? How about SARIN? |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:30:22 -0700, Tim May [snip] You do realize that all three of those princelings have died since 9/11, are you not? Do you realise that the poeple promulgating your trolling myths have not answered the valid questions they were asked Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." President Dwight D. Eisenhower April 16, 1953 The present Iraq thing has cost the US $75 billion. Who do you want to pay the extra taxes for this and the $1500 billion Bush squandered? |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
"Beacon" wrote in message
... "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:30:22 -0700, Tim May [snip] You do realize that all three of those princelings have died since 9/11, are you not? Do you realise that the poeple promulgating your trolling myths have not answered the valid questions they were asked Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." President Dwight D. Eisenhower April 16, 1953 The present Iraq thing has cost the US $75 billion. Who do you want to pay the extra taxes for this and the $1500 billion Bush squandered? The fools believe that it's OK to simply sell more treasury debt to fund this mess. Somebody else will pay for it. Doesn't this smack of entitlement, the same practice that right-wing robots whine about constantly? Getting something for nothing? |
Failure to find banned Iraqi arms delays inspectors' report: press
[snip]
The fools believe that it's OK to simply sell more treasury debt to fund this mess. Somebody else will pay for it. Doesn't this smack of entitlement, the same practice that right-wing robots whine about constantly? Getting something for nothing? Obligatory Your marriage braakdown; your divorce;whether yousurvive; and can you afford a boat all this depends on what te Bush admisistration can cost you |
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