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Harry Reid finds his balls

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:07:41 -0700, jps wrote:

Most other countries do this, but their govs aren't whores of Wall
Street and/or kumbaya one-world liberalism.
The economy works trickle-up. Always has.
But don't hold your breath.

--Vic

Wall Street Liberalism?

It's Wall St. Capitalism that doesn't give a **** about the welfare of
its fellow citizens.

And/or.
There are many free-trade liberals who think that the if the price of
joblessness here is "lifting up" the Mexican or Chinese peasant,
that's a fair trade.
Right in line with the Wall Street pukes who see also see that as
fine, for reasons of lower wages enhancing "shareholder value."
Of course I think they're all full of ****.
They live in fairyland, since most have never worked with their hands
producing real goods, and still don't realize that the money party is
over and it's time for Americans to get back to work.
But they'll come to their senses as the economy continues to tank.
Or be brought to their senses by tar and feather.
Just my opinion, gently told.
Man, I miss my factory jobs. Maybe a little boring compared to some
work, but finishing a shift with clear head and a sense that I
contributed something to the real world made that worthwhile.
Kept me in good shape too, ready to go to another job and play two!
Wouldn't mind trying it again.
Die with grease on my hands and a smile on my face.
......Nah.

--Vic

Harry Reid finds his balls

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:41:16 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:07:41 -0700, jps wrote:

Most other countries do this, but their govs aren't whores of Wall
Street and/or kumbaya one-world liberalism.
The economy works trickle-up. Always has.
But don't hold your breath.

--Vic

Wall Street Liberalism?

It's Wall St. Capitalism that doesn't give a **** about the welfare of
its fellow citizens.

And/or.
There are many free-trade liberals who think that the if the price of
joblessness here is "lifting up" the Mexican or Chinese peasant,
that's a fair trade.

You're leaving out an important tenet of the liberal message. Those
wages should be living wages and come with the same benefits and
security they would in a civilized nation such as ours. IOW, it'd be
a good deal more expensive to take those jobs and distribute them to
the lowest bidder if the quotient included bennies.

Right in line with the Wall Street pukes who see also see that as
fine, for reasons of lower wages enhancing "shareholder value."
Of course I think they're all full of ****.
They live in fairyland, since most have never worked with their hands
producing real goods, and still don't realize that the money party is
over and it's time for Americans to get back to work.

Agreed.

But they'll come to their senses as the economy continues to tank.
Or be brought to their senses by tar and feather.

My preference.

Just my opinion, gently told.
Man, I miss my factory jobs. Maybe a little boring compared to some
work, but finishing a shift with clear head and a sense that I
contributed something to the real world made that worthwhile.
Kept me in good shape too, ready to go to another job and play two!
Wouldn't mind trying it again.

I had a factory job for a while out of high school. I wasn't ready
for more school yet. Felt the same way. Ran a tab at the local
greasy spoon and let me drink beer at lunch and after work. After a
while it made me want to go back to school.

Turned wrenches on cars while going to school. That was brutal.

Die with grease on my hands and a smile on my face.

Grease on the hands is good. Don't die that way.

.....Nah.

--Vic

Harry Reid finds his balls

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:53:14 -0700, jps wrote:

You're leaving out an important tenet of the liberal message. Those
wages should be living wages and come with the same benefits and
security they would in a civilized nation such as ours. IOW, it'd be
a good deal more expensive to take those jobs and distribute them to
the lowest bidder if the quotient included bennies.

Yeah, but it hasn't worked out that way with NAFTA and Mexico.
And that's basically unenforceable.
How many liberals who believe in that are wearing Nikes made in Asian
child-labor sweatshops.
It's bull****, and like I said. Fairyland.
You take care of your own first, then worry about others.
Ideals are one thing, facts another.

--Vic

Harry Reid finds his balls

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:11:38 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:53:14 -0700, jps wrote:

You're leaving out an important tenet of the liberal message. Those
wages should be living wages and come with the same benefits and
security they would in a civilized nation such as ours. IOW, it'd be
a good deal more expensive to take those jobs and distribute them to
the lowest bidder if the quotient included bennies.

Yeah, but it hasn't worked out that way with NAFTA and Mexico.
And that's basically unenforceable.

Went down the wrong road. It's the thing I like least about Clinton's
time in office, among others. Monica I can handle, WTO is a giant
screw job. Jobs were already in Mexico and have been leaking there
for decades. Supporting the wholesale abdication of manufacturing in
the US was a giant mistake. That's been in process for decades too.

How many liberals who believe in that are wearing Nikes made in Asian
child-labor sweatshops.

I wear Brooks, which are likely made in some Asian country. I've
become much more aware of purchasing US made products in the last
several years. I look at everything now.

It's bull****, and like I said. Fairyland.
You take care of your own first, then worry about others.
Ideals are one thing, facts another.

Understood and I agree. The jerks who support gloabalism accuse
anyone who wants to protect our manufacturing base and protectionists
and isolationists who will hasten our departure from the world
community. China will want to call its loans.

Bottom line, we're screwed. How the hell does this country regain
even a small percentage of what we've given away?

--Vic

Harry Reid finds his balls

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/26/09 8:37 PM, jps wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:52:49 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"H the wrote in message
m...
latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-naw-healthcare-reid27-2009oct27,0,4995758.story
latimes.com
Senate healthcare bill to include public option, Reid says
The majority leader says states would be allowed to opt out of the
government-sponsored insurance plan.

By Noam N. Levey

1:34 PM PDT, October 26, 2009

Reporting from Washington

Fueling the push for a new government insurance plan, Senate Majority
Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said today that his chamber's healthcare
bill
would include a compromise that would create a nationwide public option
but give states the right to opt out.

"The public option is not a silver bullet, [but] I believe it's an
important way to ensure competition and to level the playing field for
patients with the insurance industry," Reid said. "Under this concept,
states will be able to decide what works for them."

Reid sent the proposal to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office
to
be analyzed today, a key step before he can bring a bill to the floor
for
debate.

His decision does not settle the debate roiling Democratic ranks over
how
to create a government plan that would give consumers who don't get
coverage through their employers an alternative to plans offered by
commercial insurers.

The "opt-out" compromise is still two votes shy of the 60 Reid needs to
overcome a Republican filibuster, according to a senior Democratic aide
on
Capitol Hill who requested anonymity when discussing the plan.

And while Reid expresses a preference for the opt-out proposal, others
continue to push for an alternative, known as a "trigger," that would
establish local public options around the country only if commercial
insurers did not provide affordable plans to consumers.

That scenario is being championed by Sen. Olympia J. Snowe of Maine,
the
only Republican to vote for the healthcare reform measure approved by
the
Senate Finance Committee.

With a 60-40 voting majority, which includes two independents who
caucus
with Democrats, Reid has to hold all his members or pick up Republicans
to
head off a filibuster.

Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D- San Francisco) are advancing
separate healthcare bills in the Senate and House, which would have to
be
reconciled later this year before they are sent to the White House for
President Obama's signature.

But Pelosi indicated Friday that the opt-out alternative could be
included
in a reconciled bill.

For now, House Democrats are poised to pass a bill that would create a
nationwide government plan, although there is still disagreement about
how
much such a plan should pay doctors, hospitals and other medical
providers.

Liberals, including Pelosi, favor a proposal that would link those
payments to the existing Medicare program, which often pays providers
less
than commercial insurers. Proponents believe such an arrangement would
save money and help drive down costs.

But many conservative Democrats, particularly from rural areas where
Medicare typically pays less, want the government plan to negotiate its
rates with providers, as commercial insurers do.

Pelosi hopes to settle those differences in time to unveil a bill later
this week, according to her office.

Unfortunately, he's still angling to include a bogus trigger or a state
opt-out.

Hey, if the Red States want to keep winning at being the least
educated and unhealthful, they're going to have to turn it down.

Mark Sanford had the right idea. Turn down that stimulus money.

If some few red states want to opt out, that'll be the utter end of the
GOP in those states.

Yes. As I said, I think we need a strong two (or more) party system. We need
another party that has a centrist slant. We (liberals - I'm one, don't know
about others) need a loyal opposition.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Harry Reid finds his balls

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:36:12 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:09:20 -0400, H the K
wrote:

If some few red states want to opt out, that'll be the utter end of the
GOP in those states.

Yep. Good Dem play.
If they really have the balls to get it.
Ain't done yet.
What's important to a lot of people is job mobility.
Me for instance.
Since we can't ensure that either one of us can get a job that offers
a health care policy, the wife stays where she is.
Might convince her to move to Florida with a new insurance regime.
Though I must say there are other reasons for staying put, including
family, seasons, and plain old inertia.
She says a number of people at her work - the ones that don't use the
ER for health care - are there only for the health policy.
Job market and wages might undergo quite a bit of change.
Could invigorate the economy.
But then maybe Florida will opt out.
Their choice, given state rights and all.
hehe.

--Vic

I don't believe Florida would opt out but you might see a lot of the
relatively healthy center of the country where they have a low
uninsured rate anyway.
Unfortunately that pool of healthy people will not be there to balance
the coasts in the public company.

I agree. I don't think Florida would opt out.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Harry Reid finds his balls

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:52:49 -0700, nom=de=plume wrote:

Unfortunately, he's still angling to include a bogus trigger or a state
opt-out.

It really isn't much of an opt-out, as I understand it. A state could
only opt-out until 2014.

Harry Reid finds his balls