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Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
http://yachtpals.com/hydrogen-boats-7030
Looks like some engineering students are really getting serious about hydro-cell technology for marine propulsion. Looks like it could evolve into a a great alternate to fossil fuel and high dock prices. I wish 'em success! |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
"Tim" wrote in message
... http://yachtpals.com/hydrogen-boats-7030 Looks like some engineering students are really getting serious about hydro-cell technology for marine propulsion. Looks like it could evolve into a a great alternate to fossil fuel and high dock prices. I wish 'em success! Why is this better than the "diesel electrics" I've heard about? You have to regen the engergy somehow. I'm also not sure it's as clean as they youtube claimed. You have to make the battery. Of course, it's a step in the right direction. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:25:14 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote: "Tim" wrote in message ... http://yachtpals.com/hydrogen-boats-7030 Looks like some engineering students are really getting serious about hydro-cell technology for marine propulsion. Looks like it could evolve into a a great alternate to fossil fuel and high dock prices. I wish 'em success! Why is this better than the "diesel electrics" I've heard about? You have to regen the engergy somehow. I'm also not sure it's as clean as they youtube claimed. You have to make the battery. Of course, it's a step in the right direction. "This time, however, instead of belching smoke and fire, the cutting-edge power source behind this voyage will produce nothing but water vapor, as the New Cleremont is powered by two specially adapted electric trolling motors connected to a couple of 2.2 kilowatt hydrogen fuel cells." 'Nothing but water vapor' seems to say it all. Yes, the battery had to be produced, but your 'diesel electric' had to be produced *and* it's a polluter. -- John H |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:25:14 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Tim" wrote in message ... http://yachtpals.com/hydrogen-boats-7030 Looks like some engineering students are really getting serious about hydro-cell technology for marine propulsion. Looks like it could evolve into a a great alternate to fossil fuel and high dock prices. I wish 'em success! Why is this better than the "diesel electrics" I've heard about? You have to regen the engergy somehow. I'm also not sure it's as clean as they youtube claimed. You have to make the battery. Of course, it's a step in the right direction. "This time, however, instead of belching smoke and fire, the cutting-edge power source behind this voyage will produce nothing but water vapor, as the New Cleremont is powered by two specially adapted electric trolling motors connected to a couple of 2.2 kilowatt hydrogen fuel cells." 'Nothing but water vapor' seems to say it all. Yes, the battery had to be produced, but your 'diesel electric' had to be produced *and* it's a polluter. How much energy and from what source did the energy come from to get the hydrogen into the fuel cells? It may be the future but it aint quite there yet. Diesel electric is still more cost effective. |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
"JohnH" wrote in message
... On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:25:14 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Tim" wrote in message ... http://yachtpals.com/hydrogen-boats-7030 Looks like some engineering students are really getting serious about hydro-cell technology for marine propulsion. Looks like it could evolve into a a great alternate to fossil fuel and high dock prices. I wish 'em success! Why is this better than the "diesel electrics" I've heard about? You have to regen the engergy somehow. I'm also not sure it's as clean as they youtube claimed. You have to make the battery. Of course, it's a step in the right direction. "This time, however, instead of belching smoke and fire, the cutting-edge power source behind this voyage will produce nothing but water vapor, as the New Cleremont is powered by two specially adapted electric trolling motors connected to a couple of 2.2 kilowatt hydrogen fuel cells." 'Nothing but water vapor' seems to say it all. Yes, the battery had to be produced, but your 'diesel electric' had to be produced *and* it's a polluter. -- John H It's an electrical engine that has a diesel as a backup source to repower the battery. The engine isn't any more polluting than any other engine. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
"BAR" wrote in message
... wrote: On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:26:55 -0400, BAR wrote: JohnH wrote: On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:25:14 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Tim" wrote in message ... http://yachtpals.com/hydrogen-boats-7030 Looks like some engineering students are really getting serious about hydro-cell technology for marine propulsion. Looks like it could evolve into a a great alternate to fossil fuel and high dock prices. I wish 'em success! Why is this better than the "diesel electrics" I've heard about? You have to regen the engergy somehow. I'm also not sure it's as clean as they youtube claimed. You have to make the battery. Of course, it's a step in the right direction. "This time, however, instead of belching smoke and fire, the cutting-edge power source behind this voyage will produce nothing but water vapor, as the New Cleremont is powered by two specially adapted electric trolling motors connected to a couple of 2.2 kilowatt hydrogen fuel cells." 'Nothing but water vapor' seems to say it all. Yes, the battery had to be produced, but your 'diesel electric' had to be produced *and* it's a polluter. How much energy and from what source did the energy come from to get the hydrogen into the fuel cells? It may be the future but it aint quite there yet. Diesel electric is still more cost effective. Hydrogen is a scam, much like ethanol. Overall it is an energy loser. Hybrid vehicles are a scam too. What is the "carbon foot print" of the battery pack to produce and to recycle? I wouldn't call it a scam, but it's certainly not the end all/be all of effective environmentalism. I heard someone say (might have said this before) that it's better to be a vegetarian and own a Hummer than eat meat and own a Prius. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
It may seem a scam at this very moment, but I believe it will get
lined out in the future and become very cost effective, and the technology grows. take a look at where the computer has gone from the ABC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atanaso...Berry_Computer then the ENIAC , not only in costs but capabilities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC I'pods and memory sticks have more capabilities than the top computers 10 years ago. I may be wrong, but I think that the hydro-cell has a place in the near future. Anything "new" is cost prohibitive . |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
wrote in message
... On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:31:57 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: It may seem a scam at this very moment, but I believe it will get lined out in the future and become very cost effective, and the technology grows. take a look at where the computer has gone from the ABC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atanaso...Berry_Computer then the ENIAC , not only in costs but capabilities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC I'pods and memory sticks have more capabilities than the top computers 10 years ago. I may be wrong, but I think that the hydro-cell has a place in the near future. Anything "new" is cost prohibitive . Computers don't violate the laws of physics. It takes as much energy to get hydrogen out of a compound as you get when you put it back. It is a chemical battery. It's a matter of efficency, not of changing the laws of physics. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
wrote in message
... On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:28:24 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Computers don't violate the laws of physics. It takes as much energy to get hydrogen out of a compound as you get when you put it back. It is a chemical battery. It's a matter of efficency, not of changing the laws of physics. If it costs as exactly much energy to get hydrogen as you get when you use it (perfect efficiency) it still isn't a fuel, it is just a good battery. Unfortunately the losses are pretty big. This is great for the space program where cost is no object but not very practical competing with Li ON batteries, or even lead. I suppose you could start with elemental hydrogen but most commercial hydrogen comes from natural gas wells The problem is it is a lot more expensive. Why not just use the natural gas? The CLNE solution. Why not use batteries that can be recharged by a small amount of a known commodity that's already fairly inexpensive... diesel or natural gas or whatever. Diesel is ubiquitous, which decreases the hassle factor. Someone said you still have to get the hydrogen right? -- Nom=de=Plume |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
On Sep 22, 12:01*am, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:31:57 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: It may seem a scam at this very moment, but I believe it will get lined out in the future and become very cost effective, and the technology grows. take a look at where the computer has gone from the ABC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atanaso...Berry_Computer then the ENIAC , not only in costs but capabilities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC I'pods and memory sticks have more capabilities than the top computers 10 years ago. I may be wrong, but I think that the hydro-cell has a place in the near future. Anything "new" is cost prohibitive . Computers don't violate the laws of physics. It takes as much energy to get hydrogen out of a compound as you get when you put it back. It is a chemical battery. Who said anything about upholding or defying physics????? good lord. I'm saying that eventually hydrogen power will become a viable (economically as well as ecologically) option in power... .... |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: Computers don't violate the laws of physics. It takes as much energy to get hydrogen out of a compound as you get when you put it back. It is a chemical battery. Who said anything about upholding or defying physics????? good lord. I'm saying that eventually hydrogen power will become a viable (economically as well as ecologically) option in power... It might become a suitable "portable" fuel like gasoline if production costs and safety issues could be resolved. One possible production solution would be to create hydrogen from sea water using nuclear power. Of course if battery technology were better that would be the way to go instead of creating hydrogen. |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
On Sep 22, 6:21*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Sep 22, 12:01*am, wrote: On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:31:57 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: It may seem a scam at this very moment, but I believe it will get lined out in the future and become very cost effective, and the technology grows. take a look at where the computer has gone from the ABC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atanaso...Berry_Computer then the ENIAC , not only in costs but capabilities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC I'pods and memory sticks have more capabilities than the top computers 10 years ago. I may be wrong, but I think that the hydro-cell has a place in the near future. Anything "new" is cost prohibitive . Computers don't violate the laws of physics. It takes as much energy to get hydrogen out of a compound as you get when you put it back. It is a chemical battery. Who said anything about upholding or *defying physics????? good lord. *I'm saying that eventually hydrogen power will become a viable (economically as well as ecologically) option in power... ... The physics part comes in when you try to conjure up that hydrogen. Hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the universe but virtually all of it we can get at is already burnt (locked up in compounds). There is no net energy gain in breaking it out of these compounds and then recombining it.. They have lots of exciting ways to use hydrogen but you don't hear about *any exciting ways to get it. The classic scam is anything that hydrolyses water with electricity. You would be a lot better off just using the electricity to drive your machine. If these alternator scams really worked you would just need an alternator and a motor. They call it a perpetual motion machine. I can see what you're saying man, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the potential isn't there. and eventually wont' be conquered. Who knows . There might even be a simple "Mr. Hydrogen" maker sold as an appliance. Of course that will possibly come about at the same time somebody figures out how to get rid of the reciprocating engine. |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
On Sep 22, 7:39*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 06:45:43 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: Computers don't violate the laws of physics. It takes as much energy to get hydrogen out of a compound as you get when you put it back. It is a chemical battery. Who said anything about upholding or *defying physics????? good lord. *I'm saying that eventually hydrogen power will become a viable (economically as well as ecologically) option in power... It might become a suitable "portable" fuel like gasoline if production costs and safety issues could be resolved. * One possible production solution would be to create hydrogen from sea water using nuclear power. *Of course if battery technology were better that would be the way to go instead of creating hydrogen. The only viable plan I have seen was to use the waste energy from nuke plants to crack hydrogen out of the cooling water. They were still working on the exact process but that still assumes we have new nuke plants set up for that. If we could actually build nuke plants that made economic sense , a lot of these problems would be moot anyway. agreed. |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
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Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:30:23 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
I have not studied the economics of nuclear power but my sense of it is that the main issues are perceived safety (political) and waste disposal. If the price of fossil fuels goes high enough, any economic issues with nuclear will become irrelevant. Many of the proposed Generation IV reactors will burn the nuclear waste, and are by nature, much safer than the pressurized systems we have now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integral_Fast_Reactor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_reactor |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
wrote in message
... On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:08:19 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: If it costs as exactly much energy to get hydrogen as you get when you use it (perfect efficiency) it still isn't a fuel, it is just a good battery. Unfortunately the losses are pretty big. This is great for the space program where cost is no object but not very practical competing with Li ON batteries, or even lead. I suppose you could start with elemental hydrogen but most commercial hydrogen comes from natural gas wells The problem is it is a lot more expensive. Why not just use the natural gas? The CLNE solution. Why not use batteries that can be recharged by a small amount of a known commodity that's already fairly inexpensive... diesel or natural gas or whatever. Diesel is ubiquitous, which decreases the hassle factor. Someone said you still have to get the hydrogen right? If you are burning diesel, why do you need a battery? I thought we were trying to get away from fossil fuels. Because you don't have to burn so much or so often. That's what happens with hybrids. They burn a lot less fuel. They're not perfect, but nothing is perfect. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
wrote in message
... On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:15:00 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message . .. On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:08:19 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: If it costs as exactly much energy to get hydrogen as you get when you use it (perfect efficiency) it still isn't a fuel, it is just a good battery. Unfortunately the losses are pretty big. This is great for the space program where cost is no object but not very practical competing with Li ON batteries, or even lead. I suppose you could start with elemental hydrogen but most commercial hydrogen comes from natural gas wells The problem is it is a lot more expensive. Why not just use the natural gas? The CLNE solution. Why not use batteries that can be recharged by a small amount of a known commodity that's already fairly inexpensive... diesel or natural gas or whatever. Diesel is ubiquitous, which decreases the hassle factor. Someone said you still have to get the hydrogen right? If you are burning diesel, why do you need a battery? I thought we were trying to get away from fossil fuels. Because you don't have to burn so much or so often. That's what happens with hybrids. They burn a lot less fuel. They're not perfect, but nothing is perfect. A lot of that depends on your driving patterns If you are in stop and go traffic, the hybrid will save fuel. On the interstate I don't see it saving much over any car with a small engine. As soon as you deplete the battery, it is just running on the engine. I was always curious how a Prius performs on the highway after 50 miles (or however long the battery can help it). I know Bill Maher changed his opinion of his Prius after he owned it a while. He ended up saying it was just a car with a small motor that gets pretty good mileage. I assume he based that on freeway driving. When I saw some independent tests comparing the Civic with a comparable Civic hybrid the highway ratings were virtually the same, actually giving the edge to the regular Civic at higher speeds. I have a friend who claims over 40 mpg on the highway. I believe the Civic does do almost as well on the highway. Most of our driving though is under 40 miles I believe... it should be all electric and rechargeable overnight. The diesel should only be used if absolutely necessary. I heard the new Prius comes with a solar panel roof. That sounds good. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
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Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
"JohnH" wrote in message
... Most of the Prius I see around here have an Obama sticker on the back. I think that sticker alone will add five or ten miles per gallon. -- John H Funny... reminds me of the new Survivor series on TV. Have you heard? It's going to be in Texas. They have two groups as usual, and one of the eliminations is to drive across Texas in a Volvo with a bumpersticker that says, "I'm gay, I'm a Democrat, and I'm here to take your guns." -- Nom=de=Plume |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
nom=de=plume wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message ... Most of the Prius I see around here have an Obama sticker on the back. I think that sticker alone will add five or ten miles per gallon. -- John H Funny... reminds me of the new Survivor series on TV. Have you heard? It's going to be in Texas. They have two groups as usual, and one of the eliminations is to drive across Texas in a Volvo with a bumpersticker that says, "I'm gay, I'm a Democrat, and I'm here to take your guns." Perfectly safe...only one in 20 male Texans can read. The rest of the males are busy humping their sisters, first cousins and steers. -- Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger: Idiots All |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:53:27 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message .. . Most of the Prius I see around here have an Obama sticker on the back. I think that sticker alone will add five or ten miles per gallon. -- John H Funny... reminds me of the new Survivor series on TV. Have you heard? It's going to be in Texas. They have two groups as usual, and one of the eliminations is to drive across Texas in a Volvo with a bumpersticker that says, "I'm gay, I'm a Democrat, and I'm here to take your guns." He should park it in the new Cowboys stadium on game night. -- John H |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
H the K wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... Most of the Prius I see around here have an Obama sticker on the back. I think that sticker alone will add five or ten miles per gallon. -- John H Funny... reminds me of the new Survivor series on TV. Have you heard? It's going to be in Texas. They have two groups as usual, and one of the eliminations is to drive across Texas in a Volvo with a bumpersticker that says, "I'm gay, I'm a Democrat, and I'm here to take your guns." Perfectly safe...only one in 20 male Texans can read. The rest of the males are busy humping their sisters, first cousins and steers. This is bought to you courtesy of a "professional" writer! WAFA! |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
wrote in message
... On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:56:23 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: A lot of that depends on your driving patterns If you are in stop and go traffic, the hybrid will save fuel. On the interstate I don't see it saving much over any car with a small engine. As soon as you deplete the battery, it is just running on the engine. I was always curious how a Prius performs on the highway after 50 miles (or however long the battery can help it). I know Bill Maher changed his opinion of his Prius after he owned it a while. He ended up saying it was just a car with a small motor that gets pretty good mileage. I assume he based that on freeway driving. When I saw some independent tests comparing the Civic with a comparable Civic hybrid the highway ratings were virtually the same, actually giving the edge to the regular Civic at higher speeds. I have a friend who claims over 40 mpg on the highway. I believe the Civic does do almost as well on the highway. Most of our driving though is under 40 miles I believe... it should be all electric and rechargeable overnight. The diesel should only be used if absolutely necessary. I heard the new Prius comes with a solar panel roof. That sounds good. I think the regular Civic is closer to 50MPG highway. If you look at the thread we had about solar battery chargers a week or so ago you see it takes a lot of collector to do much good. They want more collector than will fit on a Prius roof, just to run a 1/2hp pool pump. (my next solar project) I haven't really looked at what is on the Prius. It must do something useful. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Hydrogen cells for marine propulsion.
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:52:23 -0400, wrote:
A lot of that depends on your driving patterns If you are in stop and go traffic, the hybrid will save fuel. On the interstate I don't see it saving much over any car with a small engine. Exactly right. The advantage of a hybrid is during acceleration when the electric motor kicks in and gives an extra boost. |
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