3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6593206.html

This is odd as hell.
Coast Guard had called off the search.
Something not right here.

--Vic

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:55:38 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6593206.html

This is odd as hell.
Coast Guard had called off the search.
Something not right here.


What's not right is that they went at least 75 miles offshore without
a liferaft or an EPIRB, and in an unsuitable boat. Other than that
everything went well.

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:55:38 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6593206.html

This is odd as hell.
Coast Guard had called off the search.
Something not right here.


What's not right is that they went at least 75 miles offshore without
a liferaft or an EPIRB, and in an unsuitable boat. Other than that
everything went well.

smugglers??

--
Wafa free since 2009

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:34:10 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6593206.html

This is odd as hell.
Coast Guard had called off the search.
Something not right here.


What's not right is that they went at least 75 miles offshore without
a liferaft or an EPIRB, and in an unsuitable boat. Other than that
everything went well.

smugglers??

Maybe but I doubt it. Most of the smuggling is back towards south
Florida and is done in stolen high speed boats, typically fast center
consoles.

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:36:34 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:55:38 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6593206.html

This is odd as hell.
Coast Guard had called off the search.
Something not right here.


What's not right is that they went at least 75 miles offshore without
a liferaft or an EPIRB, and in an unsuitable boat. Other than that
everything went well.


"Unsinkable" so-called off-shore fishing boat, no wreckage found.
Flat sea conditions. Predictable currents put them where they were
found by a pleasure boater.
Coast Guard can't find them, and gives up.
You damn well better have an EPIRB or liferaft.
PLB's might be called for in some circumstances.
A sat phone in a ditch bag might be your best friend.
Looking for some clarity in state of art EPIRB versus PLB's I ran
across this:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...e-epirb-2.html
"Just a quick note, not entirely helpful to the thread but might be
interesting: I took a tour of a Coast Guard Station last week on the
Maine coast. I was asking about response times, eperbs and such..I was
told that the Coast Guard gets so many eperb signals that they don't
do anything unless there's some other information to back it up.
Sounds like the eperb ought to be the last form of comunication in an
emergency."

Doesn't that just tickle your heart?
According to this guy, the Coast guard ignores EPIRB signals unless -
basically - they get a phone call.
You would think that if an EPIRB (or PLB) sends a GPS signal from 10
miles offshore there would at least be a proactive protocol to follow
via the EPIRB/PLB registration database to confirm the validity of the
distress signal.
I don't know how the CG is handling EPIRB/PLB distress signals, but it
might be comforting to know the answer - or maybe not too comforting.
Your wait for the calvary might be longer than you think, even with an
EPIRB.
Those 3 guys sitting on an upturned hull in the Gulf for a week does
NOT inspire in me much confidence in the CG.
Best not count on them, which is why personal preparation is so
important.
Not taking anything away from the CG, of course.
They can't be perfect.

--Vic

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Aug 30, 10:10*pm, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:36:34 -0400, Wayne.B

wrote:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:55:38 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6593206.html

This is odd as hell.
Coast Guard had called off the search.
Something not right here.

What's not right is that they went at least 75 miles offshore without
a liferaft or an EPIRB, and in an unsuitable boat. * Other than that
everything went well.

"Unsinkable" so-called off-shore fishing boat, no wreckage found.
Flat sea conditions. Predictable currents put them where they were
found by a pleasure boater.
Coast Guard can't find them, and gives up.
You damn well better have an EPIRB or liferaft.
PLB's might be called for in some circumstances.
A sat phone in a ditch bag might be your best friend.
Looking for some clarity in state of art EPIRB versus PLB's I ran
across this:http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...o-plbs-one-epi...
"Just a quick note, not entirely helpful to the thread but might be
interesting: I took a tour of a Coast Guard Station last week on the
Maine coast. I was asking about response times, eperbs and such..I was
told that the Coast Guard gets so many eperb signals that they don't
do anything unless there's some other information to back it up.
Sounds like the eperb ought to be the last form of comunication in an
emergency."

those of us who do watchstanding at CG stations know this ain't the
truth. don't forget there are several things, beyond the EPIRB to be
considered: liability and careers. if someone drowns, someone's gonna
hang for it. the CG has been successfully sued for neglect for
ignoring distress calls.

Those 3 guys sitting on an upturned hull in the Gulf for a week does
NOT inspire in me much confidence in the CG.

you mean just because the CG searched an area the size of the state of
minnesota? how much should they have searched?

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:20:23 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

On Aug 30, 10:10Â*pm, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:36:34 -0400, Wayne.B

wrote:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:55:38 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6593206.html

This is odd as hell.
Coast Guard had called off the search.
Something not right here.

What's not right is that they went at least 75 miles offshore without
a liferaft or an EPIRB, and in an unsuitable boat. Â* Other than that
everything went well.

"Unsinkable" so-called off-shore fishing boat, no wreckage found.
Flat sea conditions. Predictable currents put them where they were
found by a pleasure boater.
Coast Guard can't find them, and gives up.
You damn well better have an EPIRB or liferaft.
PLB's might be called for in some circumstances.
A sat phone in a ditch bag might be your best friend.
Looking for some clarity in state of art EPIRB versus PLB's I ran
across this:http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...o-plbs-one-epi...
"Just a quick note, not entirely helpful to the thread but might be
interesting: I took a tour of a Coast Guard Station last week on the
Maine coast. I was asking about response times, eperbs and such..I was
told that the Coast Guard gets so many eperb signals that they don't
do anything unless there's some other information to back it up.
Sounds like the eperb ought to be the last form of comunication in an
emergency."

those of us who do watchstanding at CG stations know this ain't the
truth. don't forget there are several things, beyond the EPIRB to be
considered: liability and careers. if someone drowns, someone's gonna
hang for it. the CG has been successfully sued for neglect for
ignoring distress calls.

So put the lie to rest. What do you do with EPIRB signals?

Those 3 guys sitting on an upturned hull in the Gulf for a week does
NOT inspire in me much confidence in the CG.

you mean just because the CG searched an area the size of the state of
minnesota? how much should they have searched?

No. I mean just what I said. One week, no find.
I do NOT intend to rely on the CG for offshore SAR without
a SAT phone notification that the EPIRB/PLB distress signal is legit.
Unless you tell me otherwise.
Then I'll think about it some more.

--Vic

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:31:11 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Those 3 guys sitting on an upturned hull in the Gulf for a week does
NOT inspire in me much confidence in the CG.

you mean just because the CG searched an area the size of the state of
minnesota? how much should they have searched?

No. I mean just what I said. One week, no find.
I do NOT intend to rely on the CG for offshore SAR without
a SAT phone notification that the EPIRB/PLB distress signal is legit.
Unless you tell me otherwise.
Then I'll think about it some more.

We recently listened on our marine VHF radio as USCG dispatched a
helicopter several hundred miles out into the Gulf in reponse to an
EPIRB signal. That is a major commitment of resources and exactly
the right response. An EPIRB broadcasts the exact lat/lon of its
location and a coded serial number registered to the owner. If the
owner has followed procedures, his contact information plus a
designated alternate is contained in a database accessible to USCG.
We are mailed a confirmation form every two years where I have to
certify that our contact information is still correct.

The procedure when USCG gets an EPIRB alert is that they attempt to
contact the registered owner or the alternate to determine if the
alert is legitimate. If they get an affirmitive response or no
response, they initiate a search at the reported location if resources
are available, and also broadcast a repeated information message on
both VHF and Single Side Band radios.

If we get into trouble offshore my money is on the EPIRB and USCG
assuming we are in US waters at the time. If elsewhere, USCG
attempts to contact the organization appropriate for that region,
Bahamian Search and Rescue for example.

I find it easy to understand why the boat was not located by the
search since they did not have an EPIRB. They were a long way out on
a small overturned fiberglass boat which probably had no effective
radar signature at all in that position. There's a good chance the
boat had a dark colored bottom, quite possibly blue. The men on top
would be virtually invisible from any altitude at all. Their VHF
radio (assuming they had one) would have been disabled by the capsize.
Given their overall lack of foresight and preparation they probably
had no handheld VHF either. In my opinion they were lucky to have
been found at all.

Just like the football players from St Pete Beach, they were a
disaster waiting for a place to happen.

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Aug 30, 10:31*pm, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:20:23 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:



those of us who do watchstanding at CG stations know this ain't the
truth. *don't forget there are several things, beyond the EPIRB to be
considered: liability and careers. if someone drowns, someone's gonna
hang for it. *the CG has been successfully sued for neglect for
ignoring distress calls.

So put the lie to rest. *What do you do with EPIRB signals?

the RCC contacts the nearest station to dispatch the resources
necessary for SAR. Generall CG stations themselves do not have the
capability to check EPIRB signals.

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:29:05 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:34:10 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6593206.html

This is odd as hell.
Coast Guard had called off the search.
Something not right here.


What's not right is that they went at least 75 miles offshore without
a liferaft or an EPIRB, and in an unsuitable boat. Other than that
everything went well.

smugglers??

Maybe but I doubt it. Most of the smuggling is back towards south
Florida and is done in stolen high speed boats, typically fast center
consoles.

Hmmmm - I have a fast center console. :)

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:06:51 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Maybe but I doubt it. Most of the smuggling is back towards south
Florida and is done in stolen high speed boats, typically fast center
consoles.

Hmmmm - I have a fast center console. :)

Yes. I'd keep it well locked, especially if you bring it to FL.

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:10:20 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:36:34 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:55:38 -0500, Vic Smith

Those 3 guys sitting on an upturned hull in the Gulf for a week does
NOT inspire in me much confidence in the CG.
Best not count on them, which is why personal preparation is so
important.
Not taking anything away from the CG, of course.
They can't be perfect.

That's not true at all - I don't know where you found that, but most
of it's bull****.

EPIRB signals initiate an immediate response - I know that for a fact
because I accidentaly set one off when I had my first Contender. The
CG will put out a call on 16 with Lat/Lon and ask any near by boats to
respond if able to do so - at least they do it in LIS and neighboring
waters. I was pretty freakin' embarrassed about the whole thing.

As it happened to me, they had a Falcon jet at New London, scrambled
that and they found me exactly where the EPIRB said I was - five miles
East of SW Ledge off Block Island.

The problem with air searches where there are no corresponding data
sets to work off of is that you have to cover a lot of terroritory at
low level against differing light conditions and you don't know what
you are looking for. Ever try to spot something from 700 feet, black
against the surface of the water? It's tough. It's hard on land. How
the hell do you miss four fire trucks, two ambulances in the middle of
a hay field? I've seen that happen first hand. I've been on SARs in
the air looking for lost hikers in the open desert and missed the
signals and signs. It sounds easy - it ain't.

These guys took a chance without having proper equipment or signaling
devices that they could get to quickly in case of emergency. It's not
the Coasties fault that these guys were morons.

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Aug 31, 11:09*am, Tom Francis - SWSports

EPIRB signals initiate an immediate response - I know that for a fact
because I accidentaly set one off when I had my first Contender. The
CG will put out a call on 16 with Lat/Lon and ask any near by boats to
respond if able to do so - at least they do it in LIS and neighboring
waters. *I was pretty freakin' embarrassed about the whole thing.

As it happened to me, they had a Falcon jet at New London, scrambled
that and they found me exactly where the EPIRB said I was - five miles
East of SW Ledge off Block Island.

The problem with air searches where there are no corresponding data
sets to work off of is that you have to cover a lot of terroritory at
low level against differing light conditions and you don't know what
you are looking for. Ever try to spot something from 700 feet, black
against the surface of the water? *It's tough. *It's hard on land. How
the hell do you miss four fire trucks, two ambulances in the middle of
a hay field? *I've seen that happen first hand. I've been on SARs in
the air looking for lost hikers in the open desert and missed the
signals and signs. It sounds easy - it ain't.

These guys took a chance without having proper equipment or signaling
devices that they could get to quickly in case of emergency. It's not
the Coasties fault that these guys were morons.

well said and exactly right. the CG works with a computer assisted
search pattern (CASP) that enables them to maintain pretty tight
control over a search. but the chances of finding an overturned boat
are pretty small on the open ocean. and the boat may have drifted
out of the search area due to wind and current conditions.

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:09:48 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:10:20 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:36:34 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:55:38 -0500, Vic Smith

Those 3 guys sitting on an upturned hull in the Gulf for a week does
NOT inspire in me much confidence in the CG.
Best not count on them, which is why personal preparation is so
important.
Not taking anything away from the CG, of course.
They can't be perfect.

That's not true at all - I don't know where you found that, but most
of it's bull****.

The quote with link I posted certainly was, as others have pointed
out, but there's no question that the CG isn't perfect.
That was my point in the beginning.
I've seen air photos of the eventual rescue now, and the white hull
stood out well in the flat blue sea.
I think the search pattern was wrong, or not enough resources were put
on this one.
Would have been a shame if that hull got to Clearwater Beach with
3 dried up bodies stuck to it.
Despite the lack of comm/signal gear in the boat, the CG got an early
start and last known position report of the boat.
I expect the CG is kicking itself in the ass, and working to find what
could have worked better.
There will be some fallout about missing these guys.

These guys took a chance without having proper equipment or signaling
devices that they could get to quickly in case of emergency. It's not
the Coasties fault that these guys were morons.

Agree. I like to look for gotchas, sometimes to the point of being
accused of being anal, but hey, it served me well in my profession.
For those interested in EPIRB/PLB signals, the Lady Mary incident
might be instructive.
http://www.thebassbarn.com/forum/sho....php?p=1952251

That's a forum, and I can't vouch for anything and I haven't dug in
much, but even with EPIRBs/PLBs there are gotchas that should be
analysed - if you're anal about that of course (-:
Seems safety gear is a good target for being anal about.
Did you EPIRB/PLB owners get the notice referred to here?

"July 17, 2009
Boaters urged to check beacon numbers

By WAYNE PARRY
Associated Press
Citing delays in identifying a scallop boat as it sank in the Atlantic
Ocean in March, the federal government is contacting nearly a quarter
of a million boaters, urging them to make sure their emergency
position locators are correctly registered in a rescue database.
The Coast Guard says an incorrectly recorded beacon number from the
Lady Mary delayed notification of rescue personnel as the boat
foundered off Cape May. Six of the seven crew members died.
As a result, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is
mailing and e-mailing all registered owners of the emergency beacons
across the country.
"I'm glad to see they are doing this; hopefully it will prevent a
similar delay in search and rescue operations in the future," said
Stevenson Weeks, the lawyer for the Lady Mary's owner."

--Vic

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:21:12 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Did you EPIRB/PLB owners get the notice referred to here?

I get a similar notice every two years requesting that I check the
EPIRB number against their records, recertify primary and secondary
contact information, sign and return the form. I've had my EPIRB
over 5 years and that has been the procedure all along.

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:32:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:21:12 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Did you EPIRB/PLB owners get the notice referred to here?

I get a similar notice every two years requesting that I check the
EPIRB number against their records, recertify primary and secondary
contact information, sign and return the form. I've had my EPIRB
over 5 years and that has been the procedure all along.

So do I. As does everybody who has an EPIRB.

The problem, as always, is that it's somebody else's fault if you
don't do what you are supposed to do.

3 Boaters Found By Pleasure Craft after 8 Days On capsized Cat
 

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:32:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:21:12 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Did you EPIRB/PLB owners get the notice referred to here?

I get a similar notice every two years requesting that I check the
EPIRB number against their records, recertify primary and secondary
contact information, sign and return the form. I've had my EPIRB
over 5 years and that has been the procedure all along.

Here's a good EPIRB doc. Might be a bit dry for some, but I found it
interesting.

http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Av..._EPIRB_Use.pdf

--Vic