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Embracing Climate Change, or Why I Have Enjoyed the CoolerSummer
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:45:57 -0500, jpjccd wrote:
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:37:19 -0500, thunder wrote: On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:43:11 -0500, jpjccd wrote: While skinny dipping in the public domain, I stumbled across this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scien tific_assessment_of_global_warming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ List_of_authors_from_Climate_Change_2007:_The_Ph ysical_Science_Basis And this was posted to refute my claim that there were no scientists out there that subscribed Anthropogenic Climate Change... Oh no, it's just your list was so small, I thought those scientists might get lonely. |
Embracing Climate Change, or Why I Have Enjoyed the Cooler Summer
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:51:49 -0500, thunder
wrote: On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:45:57 -0500, jpjccd wrote: On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:37:19 -0500, thunder wrote: On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:43:11 -0500, jpjccd wrote: While skinny dipping in the public domain, I stumbled across this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scie ntific_assessment_of_global_warming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ List_of_authors_from_Climate_Change_2007:_The_P hysical_Science_Basis And this was posted to refute my claim that there were no scientists out there that subscribed Anthropogenic Climate Change... Oh no, it's just your list was so small, I thought those scientists might get lonely. Size is relative, and it's not my list, relatively speaking. It was posted to refute a claim that was stated as fact, a clear implication that such a list did not exist. -- Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service -------http://www.NewsDemon.com------ Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access |
Embracing Climate Change, or Why I Have Enjoyed the Cooler Summer
"Errol" wrote in message ... On Aug 25, 10:03 am, "Giga" "Giga" just(removetheseandaddmatthe end) wrote: wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:04:21 -0700 (PDT), BOfL wrote: How can there be an idea of perfection or a perfect state of being, if such a thing has never existed or been experienced previously? Such a concept can only come from an extrinsic source, something outside of the human experience, ergo the possibility of "God.") Perhaps someone sometime will provide some reasonable answers to this conundrum. No one has yet, to my satisfaction. -- Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service -------http://www.NewsDemon.com------ Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access And what answers would be adequate? Many want proof, but dont know what the proof should be. BOfL What I was hoping to do was to point out what seems to me to be a bit of an irony - a contradiction of dogmas of those that are wholesale subscribers to global warming alarmism and also adopt a stoic, clinical definition of evolution and death. It's difficult for me to imagine how the conflict of those perspectives can be reconciled. I'm more than willing to be enlightened if for some reason I'm confused in comprehending those perspectives. Some things can be changed by human beings and some things can't. If global warming is caused by human beings then presumably we can stop it as well. If global warming is likely to lead to consequences we don't want then we may want to stop it. Also we seem to have the means to stop it or alleviate it, by reducing co2 output, and maybe other techniques. So if we can and want to stop it why not? Its the same principle we apply to everything, for instance if you are uncomfortable, and you can change that, then why not? If you can forsee that leaving a pan on the stove is going to burn what you are cooking then turn down the heat or take it off the cooker?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - To continue with your stove metaphor; what if it takes 5 000 years to reduce the heat by 1 notch? 5 000 years of doing everything right. It's too much effort for most people and they are content to be bamboozled by the people who conduct tests (sponsored by fuel creation or fuel intensive industries) that show that mankind is innocent as a lamb and have had no effect on global warming This is an unpopular viewpoint however. I expect to be flamed for it. = If all this GW theory is true then its taken about 60 years to cause the problem, so hopefully a similar or shorter time period we can put it right. And if it took 5000 years to put it down one notch that would imply to me that if that effort hadn't been made it might well have gone up a lot, like 1000 notches. |
Embracing Climate Change, or Why I Have Enjoyed the Cooler Summer
"BAR" wrote in message ... Giga Giga wrote: wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:04:21 -0700 (PDT), BOfL wrote: How can there be an idea of perfection or a perfect state of being, if such a thing has never existed or been experienced previously? Such a concept can only come from an extrinsic source, something outside of the human experience, ergo the possibility of "God.") Perhaps someone sometime will provide some reasonable answers to this conundrum. No one has yet, to my satisfaction. -- Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service -------http://www.NewsDemon.com------ Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access And what answers would be adequate? Many want proof, but dont know what the proof should be. BOfL What I was hoping to do was to point out what seems to me to be a bit of an irony - a contradiction of dogmas of those that are wholesale subscribers to global warming alarmism and also adopt a stoic, clinical definition of evolution and death. It's difficult for me to imagine how the conflict of those perspectives can be reconciled. I'm more than willing to be enlightened if for some reason I'm confused in comprehending those perspectives. Some things can be changed by human beings and some things can't. If global warming is caused by human beings then presumably we can stop it as well. If global warming is likely to lead to consequences we don't want then we may want to stop it. Also we seem to have the means to stop it or alleviate it, by reducing co2 output, and maybe other techniques. So if we can and want to stop it why not? Its the same principle we apply to everything, for instance if you are uncomfortable, and you can change that, then why not? If you can forsee that leaving a pan on the stove is going to burn what you are cooking then turn down the heat or take it off the cooker? However, the more sun light that is shed on the actual "data" that is used as the basis for proponents of the human caused global warming the fewer the scientists who support human caused global warming become. I must admit I was shocked, surprised, even scandalised when I checked that graph that Al Gore shows with CO2 and Temp following each other over 100,000s of years. look at a slightly higher resolution and you see that temp goes up roughly 800 years *before* CO2 even starts to rise, and goes down hundreds of years *before* CO2 falls. I can't beleive he was unaware of how misleading the way he showed the graph was. It smells like a con-job. If this graph shows anything is that warming leads to more CO2 eventually, and when there is enough CO2 cooling will start eventually (this is absurd of course). What it actually seems to show is that they are not directly correlated at all. Also just heard that the famous 'hockey stick' graph was equally flawed. Apparently you can put any set of data into that model and it will come out pretty much that shape! Wow, amazing, what a bunch of loons! But do we hear about this from the mass media? Another guy I heard said that after 50ppm CO2 has litle extra blanketting effect on the Earth. Basically its like a dye, once its coloured the cloth you can add more but the colour doesn't increase, its already fully covered??? |
Embracing Climate Change, or Why I Have Enjoyed the Cooler Summer
"tg" wrote in message ... On Aug 25, 8:04 am, BAR wrote: tg wrote: On Aug 25, 7:07 am, BAR wrote: Giga Giga wrote: wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:04:21 -0700 (PDT), BOfL wrote: How can there be an idea of perfection or a perfect state of being, if such a thing has never existed or been experienced previously? Such a concept can only come from an extrinsic source, something outside of the human experience, ergo the possibility of "God.") Perhaps someone sometime will provide some reasonable answers to this conundrum. No one has yet, to my satisfaction. -- Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service -------http://www.NewsDemon.com------ Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access And what answers would be adequate? Many want proof, but dont know what the proof should be. BOfL What I was hoping to do was to point out what seems to me to be a bit of an irony - a contradiction of dogmas of those that are wholesale subscribers to global warming alarmism and also adopt a stoic, clinical definition of evolution and death. It's difficult for me to imagine how the conflict of those perspectives can be reconciled. I'm more than willing to be enlightened if for some reason I'm confused in comprehending those perspectives. Some things can be changed by human beings and some things can't. If global warming is caused by human beings then presumably we can stop it as well. If global warming is likely to lead to consequences we don't want then we may want to stop it. Also we seem to have the means to stop it or alleviate it, by reducing co2 output, and maybe other techniques. So if we can and want to stop it why not? Its the same principle we apply to everything, for instance if you are uncomfortable, and you can change that, then why not? If you can forsee that leaving a pan on the stove is going to burn what you are cooking then turn down the heat or take it off the cooker? However, the more sun light that is shed on the actual "data" that is used as the basis for proponents of the human caused global warming the fewer the scientists who support human caused global warming become. That's interesting. Could you please provide the data to support your claim? Yes, it is all in the public domain. If you keep up with current events you shouldn't have any problem finding the information on your own. OK. I'd just like to point out that there is absolute proof of Anthropogenic Climate Change. All of it is in the public domain. You shouldn't have trouble finding it on your own. And there are no scientists who disagree with it. +Thats not true by a really long long way! |
Embracing Climate Change, or Why I Have Enjoyed the Cooler Summer
wrote in message ... On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:03:33 +0100, "Giga" "Giga" just(removetheseandaddmatthe wrote: wrote in message . .. On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:04:21 -0700 (PDT), BOfL wrote: How can there be an idea of perfection or a perfect state of being, if such a thing has never existed or been experienced previously? Such a concept can only come from an extrinsic source, something outside of the human experience, ergo the possibility of "God.") Perhaps someone sometime will provide some reasonable answers to this conundrum. No one has yet, to my satisfaction. -- Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service -------http://www.NewsDemon.com------ Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access And what answers would be adequate? Many want proof, but dont know what the proof should be. BOfL What I was hoping to do was to point out what seems to me to be a bit of an irony - a contradiction of dogmas of those that are wholesale subscribers to global warming alarmism and also adopt a stoic, clinical definition of evolution and death. It's difficult for me to imagine how the conflict of those perspectives can be reconciled. I'm more than willing to be enlightened if for some reason I'm confused in comprehending those perspectives. Some things can be changed by human beings and some things can't. If global warming is caused by human beings then presumably we can stop it as well. If global warming is likely to lead to consequences we don't want then we may want to stop it. Also we seem to have the means to stop it or alleviate it, by reducing co2 output, and maybe other techniques. So if we can and want to stop it why not? Its the same principle we apply to everything, for instance if you are uncomfortable, and you can change that, then why not? If you can forsee that leaving a pan on the stove is going to burn what you are cooking then turn down the heat or take it off the cooker? I don't necessarily disagree with this. It is a point of contention, though, as to whether or not the pan is being left on the stove with the heat on. Even still, to elaborate on your analogy, if it is obvious that the pan is going to be warming by a measurable degree over the next 1000 years or so, who's to say that it won't be something that will bring about an adaptive evolutioinary change, perhaps even a desirable one, as local climate change has done for the ground finch; The desirable adaptive change, IMHO, will be better use of resources, such as recycling, alternative energy sources and greater protection for the natural enviroment. This is good whether AGW is real or not. http://books.google.com/books?id=8QR...age&q=&f=false Science has also determined that the sun will eventually exhaust its fuel to the point that it will bring about cataclysmic change, a deadly change for life is it is now. Should humankind also resist an inevitability which appears to be a part of the natural order of the universe, a matter of atrophy? Of course. I think this not likely to happen for billions of years. If we are not all over this and quite a few other galaxies, possibly in various dimensions by then, I would be shocked. Also we will almost certainly have the means to either relocate the Earth to another star or even repair Sol if we really want to. I'm not confessing this to be my view. I'm simply questioning current, popular thought. I personally think that if climate change could compel man to find a way to expand out across the universe, as it compels birds to evolve on a microevolutionary scale, climate change may not be such an alarming peril afterall. Not sure there is a need to compel human beings to explore, its naturally in us, and I'm sure it will happen. -- Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service -------http://www.NewsDemon.com------ Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access |
Embracing Climate Change, or Why I Have Enjoyed the Cooler Summer
On Aug 25, 11:19*am, "Giga" "Giga" just(removetheseandaddmatthe end)
wrote: "BAR" wrote in message ... Giga Giga wrote: wrote in message . .. On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:04:21 -0700 (PDT), BOfL wrote: How can there be an idea of perfection or a perfect state of being, if such a thing has never existed or been experienced previously? Such a concept can only come from an extrinsic source, something outside of the human experience, ergo the possibility of "God.") Perhaps someone sometime will provide some reasonable answers to this conundrum. No one has yet, to my satisfaction. -- Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service -------http://www.NewsDemon.com------ Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access And what answers would be adequate? Many want proof, but dont know what the proof should be. BOfL What I was hoping to do was to point out what seems to me to be a bit of an irony - a contradiction of dogmas of those that are wholesale subscribers to global warming alarmism and also adopt a stoic, clinical definition of evolution and death. *It's difficult for me to imagine how the conflict of those perspectives can be reconciled. *I'm more than willing to be enlightened if for some reason I'm confused in comprehending those perspectives. Some things can be changed by human beings and some things can't. If global warming is caused by human beings then presumably we can stop it as well. If global warming is likely to lead to consequences we don't want then we may want to stop it. Also we seem to have the means to stop it or alleviate it, by reducing co2 output, and maybe other techniques.. So if we can and want to stop it why not? Its the same principle we apply to everything, for instance if you are uncomfortable, and you can change that, then why not? If you can forsee that leaving a pan on the stove is going to burn what you are cooking then turn down the heat or take it off the cooker? However, the more sun light that is shed on the actual "data" that is used as the basis for proponents of the human caused global warming the fewer the scientists who support human caused global warming become. I must admit I was shocked, surprised, even scandalised when I checked that graph that Al Gore shows with CO2 and Temp following each other over 100,000s of years. look at a slightly higher resolution and you see that temp goes up roughly 800 years *before* CO2 even starts to rise, and goes down hundreds of years *before* CO2 falls. I can't beleive he was unaware of how misleading the way he showed the graph was. It smells like a con-job. If this graph shows anything is that warming leads to more CO2 eventually, and when there is enough CO2 cooling will start eventually (this is absurd of course). What it actually seems to show is that they are not directly correlated at all. Also just heard that the famous 'hockey stick' graph was equally flawed. Apparently you can put any set of data into that model and it will come out pretty much that shape! Wow, amazing, what a bunch of loons! But do we hear about this from the mass media? Another guy I heard said that after 50ppm CO2 has litle extra blanketting effect on the Earth. Basically its like a dye, once its coloured the cloth you can add more but the colour doesn't increase, its already fully covered??? If you rely on superficial reports and 'what some guy said' you will never get it right. Scientists aren't relying on the graphs that you mention. There has been lots of research in the last few years that was designed to answer valid questions like the saturation argument you cite. What's happened, contrary to what BAR said, is that scientists who started out skeptical about ACC have been convinced otherwise. But they have read the actual studies and have the background to interpret them. Science always is subject to change, and if there is new evidence, perhaps the consensus will change. But the current consensus is the best we have. It doesn't say the world will end, it just says that there will be disruptions of human life in various ways. And as you say, why not change that if we can? -tg |
Embracing Climate Change, or Why I Have Enjoyed the Cooler Summer
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Embracing Climate Change, or Why I Have Enjoyed the Cooler Summer
In article , "Giga"
says... "tg" wrote in message ... On Aug 25, 8:04 am, BAR wrote: tg wrote: On Aug 25, 7:07 am, BAR wrote: Giga Giga wrote: wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:04:21 -0700 (PDT), BOfL wrote: How can there be an idea of perfection or a perfect state of being, if such a thing has never existed or been experienced previously? Such a concept can only come from an extrinsic source, something outside of the human experience, ergo the possibility of "God.") Perhaps someone sometime will provide some reasonable answers to this conundrum. No one has yet, to my satisfaction. -- Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service -------http://www.NewsDemon.com------ Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access And what answers would be adequate? Many want proof, but dont know what the proof should be. BOfL What I was hoping to do was to point out what seems to me to be a bit of an irony - a contradiction of dogmas of those that are wholesale subscribers to global warming alarmism and also adopt a stoic, clinical definition of evolution and death. It's difficult for me to imagine how the conflict of those perspectives can be reconciled. I'm more than willing to be enlightened if for some reason I'm confused in comprehending those perspectives. Some things can be changed by human beings and some things can't. If global warming is caused by human beings then presumably we can stop it as well. If global warming is likely to lead to consequences we don't want then we may want to stop it. Also we seem to have the means to stop it or alleviate it, by reducing co2 output, and maybe other techniques. So if we can and want to stop it why not? Its the same principle we apply to everything, for instance if you are uncomfortable, and you can change that, then why not? If you can forsee that leaving a pan on the stove is going to burn what you are cooking then turn down the heat or take it off the cooker? However, the more sun light that is shed on the actual "data" that is used as the basis for proponents of the human caused global warming the fewer the scientists who support human caused global warming become. That's interesting. Could you please provide the data to support your claim? Yes, it is all in the public domain. If you keep up with current events you shouldn't have any problem finding the information on your own. OK. I'd just like to point out that there is absolute proof of Anthropogenic Climate Change. All of it is in the public domain. You shouldn't have trouble finding it on your own. And there are no scientists who disagree with it. What a laugh.... "No scientists"?? If I show you one, will you shut up and admit you are full of ****? +Thats not true by a really long long way! -- Wafa free since 2009 |
Embracing Climate Change, or Why I Have Enjoyed the Cooler Summer
thunder wrote:
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:43:11 -0500, jpjccd wrote: While skinny dipping in the public domain, I stumbled across this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scienti fic_assessment_of_global_warming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ List_of_authors_from_Climate_Change_2007:_The_Phys ical_Science_Basis There is no consensus. The debate must continue. The data must be made available for peer review. Anyone claiming that the science is settled is pursuing a political agenda and not involved in science. |
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