Eisboch wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message
...

Reformers' Claims Just Don't Add Up
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT


• America has a health care crisis.

---------------------------------

America does not have a health care crisis.

America has a welfare crisis.

Eisboch




Spoken like a "true Republican have."
"I've got mine, screw the poor, eh?"

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:24:20 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message
...

Reformers' Claims Just Don't Add Up
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT


• America has a health care crisis.

---------------------------------

America does not have a health care crisis.

America has a welfare crisis.

Eisboch


Spoken like a "true Republican have."
"I've got mine, screw the poor, eh?"

There's a ton of small businesses like mine that are already stressed
by the cost of providing health care. Expect there are a lots having
to drop coverage because of cost. Ours has been going up at more than
10% a year and we've had to opt for inferior coverage to what we had
originally to keep it within our means.

I suppose if you're not currently operating a business, you might be
unaware how challenging the situation is...

jps wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:24:20 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message
...

Reformers' Claims Just Don't Add Up
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT


• America has a health care crisis.

---------------------------------

America does not have a health care crisis.

America has a welfare crisis.

Eisboch

Spoken like a "true Republican have."
"I've got mine, screw the poor, eh?"

There's a ton of small businesses like mine that are already stressed
by the cost of providing health care. Expect there are a lots having
to drop coverage because of cost. Ours has been going up at more than
10% a year and we've had to opt for inferior coverage to what we had
originally to keep it within our means.

I suppose if you're not currently operating a business, you might be
unaware how challenging the situation is...


All the more reason to provide a reasonable way for those whose coverage
has been dropped to obtain same.

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:11:16 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:24:20 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message
...

Reformers' Claims Just Don't Add Up
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT


• America has a health care crisis.

---------------------------------

America does not have a health care crisis.

America has a welfare crisis.

Eisboch


Spoken like a "true Republican have."
"I've got mine, screw the poor, eh?"

There's a ton of small businesses like mine that are already stressed
by the cost of providing health care. Expect there are a lots having
to drop coverage because of cost. Ours has been going up at more than
10% a year and we've had to opt for inferior coverage to what we had
originally to keep it within our means.

I suppose if you're not currently operating a business, you might be
unaware how challenging the situation is...

If the business is stressed by providing health care, why provide it?
There is no governmental mandate that you do so. The only mandate in
most states is for the provisioin of Workman's Comp. Are your
employees incapable of providing thier own? Is the compensation given
your employees inadequate for their needs? Do you pay full cost of
their insurance? It is a common practice for businesses to help
relieve the (voluntary) stress of coverage by putting part or all of
the cost of coverage on the employee, even if their coverage is a
group. Have you explored HSA's, HRA's, FSA's? Are you aware that
insurance companies compete for you business? Are you aware that
HDHP's are desgined to keep premiums low? If your insurance is a
group, is it a PPO? If you are genuinely concerned about covering
your employees, have you earnestly explored all insurance options?

(I owned a manufacturing concern for more than a decade. It wouldn't
in your best interest to complain about any naivete on my part, in
asking these questions. (And I am also a licensed insurance agent.))

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
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On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:48:34 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:11:16 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:24:20 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message
...

Reformers' Claims Just Don't Add Up
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT


• America has a health care crisis.

---------------------------------

America does not have a health care crisis.

America has a welfare crisis.

Eisboch


Spoken like a "true Republican have."
"I've got mine, screw the poor, eh?"

There's a ton of small businesses like mine that are already stressed
by the cost of providing health care. Expect there are a lots having
to drop coverage because of cost. Ours has been going up at more than
10% a year and we've had to opt for inferior coverage to what we had
originally to keep it within our means.

I suppose if you're not currently operating a business, you might be
unaware how challenging the situation is...

If the business is stressed by providing health care, why provide it?
There is no governmental mandate that you do so. The only mandate in
most states is for the provisioin of Workman's Comp.

It's standard in our industry where I'm a small player. Large
employers provide and I compete in the same market for expert
employess.

Are your
employees incapable of providing thier own? Is the compensation given
your employees inadequate for their needs? Do you pay full cost of
their insurance? It is a common practice for businesses to help
relieve the (voluntary) stress of coverage by putting part or all of
the cost of coverage on the employee, even if their coverage is a
group.

We cover employee only and deduct for spouse and dependents. There's
no way we could cover families.

Have you explored HSA's, HRA's, FSA's?

We have an FSA in place.

Are you aware that
insurance companies compete for you business?

Yes, painfully.

Are you aware that
HDHP's are desgined to keep premiums low?

Yes, we're considering a move to one.

If your insurance is a
group, is it a PPO?

Yes, Regence.

If you are genuinely concerned about covering
your employees, have you earnestly explored all insurance options?

Abso-****ing-lutely.

(I owned a manufacturing concern for more than a decade. It wouldn't
in your best interest to complain about any naivete on my part, in
asking these questions. (And I am also a licensed insurance agent.))

When I moved my company from CA to WA we enjoyed significantly lower
premiums. CA had already started the steep climb. After double digit
hikes in rates, it has become painful.

I identified the problem to a state representative 5 years ago at a
small dinner reception. And while it was a known problem, it wasn't
the state's only problem nor high on the priority list. I expect it's
higher now.

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:37:40 -0700, jps wrote:

snipped for brevity

There's a ton of small businesses like mine that are already stressed
by the cost of providing health care. Expect there are a lots having
to drop coverage because of cost. Ours has been going up at more than
10% a year and we've had to opt for inferior coverage to what we had
originally to keep it within our means.

I suppose if you're not currently operating a business, you might be
unaware how challenging the situation is...

If the business is stressed by providing health care, why provide it?
There is no governmental mandate that you do so. The only mandate in
most states is for the provisioin of Workman's Comp.

It's standard in our industry where I'm a small player. Large
employers provide and I compete in the same market for expert
employess.

Are your
employees incapable of providing thier own? Is the compensation given
your employees inadequate for their needs? Do you pay full cost of
their insurance? It is a common practice for businesses to help
relieve the (voluntary) stress of coverage by putting part or all of
the cost of coverage on the employee, even if their coverage is a
group.

We cover employee only and deduct for spouse and dependents. There's
no way we could cover families.

Have you explored HSA's, HRA's, FSA's?

We have an FSA in place.

Are you aware that
insurance companies compete for you business?

Yes, painfully.

Are you aware that
HDHP's are desgined to keep premiums low?

Yes, we're considering a move to one.

If your insurance is a
group, is it a PPO?

Yes, Regence.

If you are genuinely concerned about covering
your employees, have you earnestly explored all insurance options?

Abso-****ing-lutely.

(I owned a manufacturing concern for more than a decade. It wouldn't
in your best interest to complain about any naivete on my part, in
asking these questions. (And I am also a licensed insurance agent.))

When I moved my company from CA to WA we enjoyed significantly lower
premiums. CA had already started the steep climb. After double digit
hikes in rates, it has become painful.

I identified the problem to a state representative 5 years ago at a
small dinner reception. And while it was a known problem, it wasn't
the state's only problem nor high on the priority list. I expect it's
higher now.

Do you think that health insurance reform legislation won't require
that employers pay for health insurance, in some measure, for all of
their employees?

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 07:21:55 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:37:40 -0700, jps wrote:

snipped for brevity

There's a ton of small businesses like mine that are already stressed
by the cost of providing health care. Expect there are a lots having
to drop coverage because of cost. Ours has been going up at more than
10% a year and we've had to opt for inferior coverage to what we had
originally to keep it within our means.

I suppose if you're not currently operating a business, you might be
unaware how challenging the situation is...

If the business is stressed by providing health care, why provide it?
There is no governmental mandate that you do so. The only mandate in
most states is for the provisioin of Workman's Comp.

It's standard in our industry where I'm a small player. Large
employers provide and I compete in the same market for expert
employess.

Are your
employees incapable of providing thier own? Is the compensation given
your employees inadequate for their needs? Do you pay full cost of
their insurance? It is a common practice for businesses to help
relieve the (voluntary) stress of coverage by putting part or all of
the cost of coverage on the employee, even if their coverage is a
group.

We cover employee only and deduct for spouse and dependents. There's
no way we could cover families.

Have you explored HSA's, HRA's, FSA's?

We have an FSA in place.

Are you aware that
insurance companies compete for you business?

Yes, painfully.

Are you aware that
HDHP's are desgined to keep premiums low?

Yes, we're considering a move to one.

If your insurance is a
group, is it a PPO?

Yes, Regence.

If you are genuinely concerned about covering
your employees, have you earnestly explored all insurance options?

Abso-****ing-lutely.

(I owned a manufacturing concern for more than a decade. It wouldn't
in your best interest to complain about any naivete on my part, in
asking these questions. (And I am also a licensed insurance agent.))

When I moved my company from CA to WA we enjoyed significantly lower
premiums. CA had already started the steep climb. After double digit
hikes in rates, it has become painful.

I identified the problem to a state representative 5 years ago at a
small dinner reception. And while it was a known problem, it wasn't
the state's only problem nor high on the priority list. I expect it's
higher now.

Do you think that health insurance reform legislation won't require
that employers pay for health insurance, in some measure, for all of
their employees?

So, I answered all your questions and narry a syllable retort. You
seem only to want to take pot shots.

My sincere hope is that the public option represents a competitive bid
against the scammers that currently make profit through health care.

I take it you're among the profiteers whose living comes from taxing
our access to proper health care?

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 10:38:58 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 07:21:55 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:37:40 -0700, jps wrote:

snipped for brevity

There's a ton of small businesses like mine that are already stressed
by the cost of providing health care. Expect there are a lots having
to drop coverage because of cost. Ours has been going up at more than
10% a year and we've had to opt for inferior coverage to what we had
originally to keep it within our means.

I suppose if you're not currently operating a business, you might be
unaware how challenging the situation is...

If the business is stressed by providing health care, why provide it?
There is no governmental mandate that you do so. The only mandate in
most states is for the provisioin of Workman's Comp.

It's standard in our industry where I'm a small player. Large
employers provide and I compete in the same market for expert
employess.

Are your
employees incapable of providing thier own? Is the compensation given
your employees inadequate for their needs? Do you pay full cost of
their insurance? It is a common practice for businesses to help
relieve the (voluntary) stress of coverage by putting part or all of
the cost of coverage on the employee, even if their coverage is a
group.

We cover employee only and deduct for spouse and dependents. There's
no way we could cover families.

Have you explored HSA's, HRA's, FSA's?

We have an FSA in place.

Are you aware that
insurance companies compete for you business?

Yes, painfully.

Are you aware that
HDHP's are desgined to keep premiums low?

Yes, we're considering a move to one.

If your insurance is a
group, is it a PPO?

Yes, Regence.

If you are genuinely concerned about covering
your employees, have you earnestly explored all insurance options?

Abso-****ing-lutely.

(I owned a manufacturing concern for more than a decade. It wouldn't
in your best interest to complain about any naivete on my part, in
asking these questions. (And I am also a licensed insurance agent.))

When I moved my company from CA to WA we enjoyed significantly lower
premiums. CA had already started the steep climb. After double digit
hikes in rates, it has become painful.

I identified the problem to a state representative 5 years ago at a
small dinner reception. And while it was a known problem, it wasn't
the state's only problem nor high on the priority list. I expect it's
higher now.

Do you think that health insurance reform legislation won't require
that employers pay for health insurance, in some measure, for all of
their employees?

So, I answered all your questions and narry a syllable retort. You
seem only to want to take pot shots.

My sincere hope is that the public option represents a competitive bid
against the scammers that currently make profit through health care.

I take it you're among the profiteers whose living comes from taxing
our access to proper health care?

Why should I waste energy and time on tired ad hominem? I've worked
my myself silly today (a Sunday, no less), and I haven't had time to
enjoy a persistent, johnny-on-the-spot debate to prove my polemical
prowess to you or anyone else. It's an unfortunate risk I take when
I engage these discussions. I've spent the day mowing a yard that has
been too long neglected. I helped my sister (who is blind by virtue
of diabetic retinopathy) apply her lettering of her windows to her law
office. I took my sister shopping, as she is handicapped. I tended
to my garden. I worked on following up on insurance inquiry leads.
And I've done some other various, sundry things that needed attention.
And do you care to know what my current commissions are? I suspect
the issue is pointless, as you are demonstrably dogmatic. My
commssions are nil. Are you empathetic (less condescending to those
that don't share your political persuasion)? Then you have no problem
expressing your empathy for those thousands and hundred of thousands
of people who are involved in providing a means to finance health care
who are facing the prospect of losing their respective livelihoods to
a failed idealogy, I take it? The actuaries, the secretaries, the
managers, the general agents, the marketing specialists, the risk
specialists, the accountants, the producers, the CE providers, et al,
should thank the heavens above that the government will be there to
help their transition to their new lives. And what is "proper health
care"? Who in this government-take-all world determines what proper
health care is? Get your damnable government out of my life. And take
your red-herring arguments with you.

I want my freedom back, the freedom the government was originally
structured to protect.

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:11:16 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:24:20 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message
...

Reformers' Claims Just Don't Add Up
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT


. America has a health care crisis.

---------------------------------

America does not have a health care crisis.

America has a welfare crisis.

Eisboch


Spoken like a "true Republican have."
"I've got mine, screw the poor, eh?"

There's a ton of small businesses like mine that are already stressed
by the cost of providing health care. Expect there are a lots having
to drop coverage because of cost. Ours has been going up at more than
10% a year and we've had to opt for inferior coverage to what we had
originally to keep it within our means.

I suppose if you're not currently operating a business, you might be
unaware how challenging the situation is...

If the business is stressed by providing health care, why provide it?
There is no governmental mandate that you do so. The only mandate in
most states is for the provisioin of Workman's Comp. Are your
employees incapable of providing thier own? Is the compensation given
your employees inadequate for their needs? Do you pay full cost of
their insurance? It is a common practice for businesses to help
relieve the (voluntary) stress of coverage by putting part or all of
the cost of coverage on the employee, even if their coverage is a
group. Have you explored HSA's, HRA's, FSA's? Are you aware that
insurance companies compete for you business? Are you aware that
HDHP's are desgined to keep premiums low? If your insurance is a
group, is it a PPO? If you are genuinely concerned about covering
your employees, have you earnestly explored all insurance options?

(I owned a manufacturing concern for more than a decade. It wouldn't
in your best interest to complain about any naivete on my part, in
asking these questions. (And I am also a licensed insurance agent.))



One of the weaknesses of your arguement is the competitive nature of
attracting desireable employees for your small business. In my experience,
employer health plans is a major consideration in the eyes of people
accepting positions in a company.

My state, (MA) also has had some screwy insurance laws over the years.
Things like requirements for 100 percent employee participation in the group
plan your company offers. I couldn't have multiple plans. If we had a Blue
Cross plan, I couldn't also offer a Tufts or Harvard plan as well.
This presented problems when a prospective employee's family doctor was
affiliated with one plan, but not with the company's plan. We had
situation once, early in the company's beginnings, where a key employee had
a youngster with a medical problem that was being managed by a doctor who
was affiliated with Harvard but not with Blue Cross. We ended up having to
change the whole company plan over to Harvard to make sure his kid and
family remained covered.

Eisboch

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 03:57:10 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:11:16 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:24:20 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message
...

Reformers' Claims Just Don't Add Up
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT


. America has a health care crisis.

---------------------------------

America does not have a health care crisis.

America has a welfare crisis.

Eisboch


Spoken like a "true Republican have."
"I've got mine, screw the poor, eh?"

There's a ton of small businesses like mine that are already stressed
by the cost of providing health care. Expect there are a lots having
to drop coverage because of cost. Ours has been going up at more than
10% a year and we've had to opt for inferior coverage to what we had
originally to keep it within our means.

I suppose if you're not currently operating a business, you might be
unaware how challenging the situation is...

If the business is stressed by providing health care, why provide it?
There is no governmental mandate that you do so. The only mandate in
most states is for the provisioin of Workman's Comp. Are your
employees incapable of providing thier own? Is the compensation given
your employees inadequate for their needs? Do you pay full cost of
their insurance? It is a common practice for businesses to help
relieve the (voluntary) stress of coverage by putting part or all of
the cost of coverage on the employee, even if their coverage is a
group. Have you explored HSA's, HRA's, FSA's? Are you aware that
insurance companies compete for you business? Are you aware that
HDHP's are desgined to keep premiums low? If your insurance is a
group, is it a PPO? If you are genuinely concerned about covering
your employees, have you earnestly explored all insurance options?

(I owned a manufacturing concern for more than a decade. It wouldn't
in your best interest to complain about any naivete on my part, in
asking these questions. (And I am also a licensed insurance agent.))



One of the weaknesses of your arguement is the competitive nature of
attracting desireable employees for your small business. In my experience,
employer health plans is a major consideration in the eyes of people
accepting positions in a company.

My state, (MA) also has had some screwy insurance laws over the years.
Things like requirements for 100 percent employee participation in the group
plan your company offers. I couldn't have multiple plans. If we had a Blue
Cross plan, I couldn't also offer a Tufts or Harvard plan as well.
This presented problems when a prospective employee's family doctor was
affiliated with one plan, but not with the company's plan. We had
situation once, early in the company's beginnings, where a key employee had
a youngster with a medical problem that was being managed by a doctor who
was affiliated with Harvard but not with Blue Cross. We ended up having to
change the whole company plan over to Harvard to make sure his kid and
family remained covered.

Eisboch


If the insurance provided was a PPO based group plan, the
consideration would be one of whether to remain in network or not.
There are benefits to encourage an insured to stay in network; but,
it's not necessary for the insured to do so. Still, a doctor
in-network can recommend a specialist outside of the network in a
circumstance that would allow the insured in-network benefits, 80/20
co-insurance, low out-of-pocket maximums, etc.
Too, the workforce, for the most part, is not ignorant of the
fact that coverage with the majority of employers will be with the
understanding that the prospective employee will have to participate
in paying for the coverage. Even still, those costs of doing business
that don't qualify as business expenses are ultimately passed onto the
consumer. If a business struggles to compete in the marketplace,
whether it's in the SOA or manufacturing, it competes in offering
product at competitive prices. Offering to pay for an employee's
health insurance may impact the cost of the final product. However,
one of the noted qualities of competition is that it leads to
innovation, and innovation can lead to discovering ways to lower costs
in all areas of the business unit. If a business finds it necessary
to offer a premium health insurance to attract key employees, then it
has the potential to lower costs elsewhere. Also, an enterprising
business can be innovative in attracting quality employees, within the
confines of the law, without the necessity of offering to provide
health insurance.

--
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