Sober thoughts on health care
 

thunder wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 17:06:00 -0400, H the K wrote:

thunder wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:03:02 -0400, BAR wrote:


I thought they weren't allowed to deny you care if you couldn't or
wouldn't pay for it.
Yeah, but what is care? It may vary by state, but I believe they only
have to stabilize you.

That is correct...if that.

It's also true that many hospitals go beyond the requirement, regardless
of the cost. Still, I wouldn't want to be in an emergency room without
insurance. Hell, even with insurance, a major sickness is a leading
cause of personal bankruptcy.

Very few *private* hospitals go above and beyond, since profit is their
motive.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

Sober thoughts on health care
 

Sober thoughts on health care
 

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 10:38:58 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 07:21:55 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:37:40 -0700, jps wrote:

snipped for brevity

There's a ton of small businesses like mine that are already stressed
by the cost of providing health care. Expect there are a lots having
to drop coverage because of cost. Ours has been going up at more than
10% a year and we've had to opt for inferior coverage to what we had
originally to keep it within our means.

I suppose if you're not currently operating a business, you might be
unaware how challenging the situation is...

If the business is stressed by providing health care, why provide it?
There is no governmental mandate that you do so. The only mandate in
most states is for the provisioin of Workman's Comp.

It's standard in our industry where I'm a small player. Large
employers provide and I compete in the same market for expert
employess.

Are your
employees incapable of providing thier own? Is the compensation given
your employees inadequate for their needs? Do you pay full cost of
their insurance? It is a common practice for businesses to help
relieve the (voluntary) stress of coverage by putting part or all of
the cost of coverage on the employee, even if their coverage is a
group.

We cover employee only and deduct for spouse and dependents. There's
no way we could cover families.

Have you explored HSA's, HRA's, FSA's?

We have an FSA in place.

Are you aware that
insurance companies compete for you business?

Yes, painfully.

Are you aware that
HDHP's are desgined to keep premiums low?

Yes, we're considering a move to one.

If your insurance is a
group, is it a PPO?

Yes, Regence.

If you are genuinely concerned about covering
your employees, have you earnestly explored all insurance options?

Abso-****ing-lutely.

(I owned a manufacturing concern for more than a decade. It wouldn't
in your best interest to complain about any naivete on my part, in
asking these questions. (And I am also a licensed insurance agent.))

When I moved my company from CA to WA we enjoyed significantly lower
premiums. CA had already started the steep climb. After double digit
hikes in rates, it has become painful.

I identified the problem to a state representative 5 years ago at a
small dinner reception. And while it was a known problem, it wasn't
the state's only problem nor high on the priority list. I expect it's
higher now.

Do you think that health insurance reform legislation won't require
that employers pay for health insurance, in some measure, for all of
their employees?

So, I answered all your questions and narry a syllable retort. You
seem only to want to take pot shots.

My sincere hope is that the public option represents a competitive bid
against the scammers that currently make profit through health care.

I take it you're among the profiteers whose living comes from taxing
our access to proper health care?

Why should I waste energy and time on tired ad hominem? I've worked
my myself silly today (a Sunday, no less), and I haven't had time to
enjoy a persistent, johnny-on-the-spot debate to prove my polemical
prowess to you or anyone else. It's an unfortunate risk I take when
I engage these discussions. I've spent the day mowing a yard that has
been too long neglected. I helped my sister (who is blind by virtue
of diabetic retinopathy) apply her lettering of her windows to her law
office. I took my sister shopping, as she is handicapped. I tended
to my garden. I worked on following up on insurance inquiry leads.
And I've done some other various, sundry things that needed attention.
And do you care to know what my current commissions are? I suspect
the issue is pointless, as you are demonstrably dogmatic. My
commssions are nil. Are you empathetic (less condescending to those
that don't share your political persuasion)? Then you have no problem
expressing your empathy for those thousands and hundred of thousands
of people who are involved in providing a means to finance health care
who are facing the prospect of losing their respective livelihoods to
a failed idealogy, I take it? The actuaries, the secretaries, the
managers, the general agents, the marketing specialists, the risk
specialists, the accountants, the producers, the CE providers, et al,
should thank the heavens above that the government will be there to
help their transition to their new lives. And what is "proper health
care"? Who in this government-take-all world determines what proper
health care is? Get your damnable government out of my life. And take
your red-herring arguments with you.

I want my freedom back, the freedom the government was originally
structured to protect.

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

Sober thoughts on health care
 

Eisboch wrote:
"thunder" wrote in message
t...
It's also true that many hospitals go beyond the requirement, regardless
of the cost. Still, I wouldn't want to be in an emergency room without
insurance. Hell, even with insurance, a major sickness is a leading
cause of personal bankruptcy.

You've touched on the forbidden facet of health care.
At what point is someone's life worth destroying the lives of loved ones by
putting them in hopeless debt or bankrupcy?

Eisboch




Why should a family have to go into hopeless debt or bankruptcy for
medical care for a loved one, so long as there is a chance of prolonging
some sort of reasonable life for someone already here?

That's such an anti-life position...be careful or the crazies will soon
be picketing outside your store, calling you an anti-lifer.


Oh, wait...*they* only care about fetuses...once you're here, they don't
give a **** whether you live or die...


:)

Sober thoughts on health care
 

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:



There is no access to health care
problem.


We've been hearing that b.s. from conservatives for decades. It
wasn't true then and it isn't true today.

Provide examples of the problem you allege people have accessing
health care in the USA?


Oh, please. Do some reading on other than reich-wing sites. Why do
you righties always try to insist that everyone else do your homework
for you?

Talking out of your ass again Harry. You can't support your assertions
again.



Wrong, Bertie. Like many non-intellectual and anti-intellectual
righties, you tend to believe what your right-wing sources and your
prejudices tell you to believe.

Prejudices, right. Receiving goods and services without the intention of
paying for them or paying for them is theft.

I see no purpose served in handing you and others like you information
you can find on your own, if you are interested.

You consistently make assertions that are tenuous at best and easy for
your to weasel out of. When you are pushed for facts and figures to
backup your assertions you hurl personal insults.

You were colossally wrong just yesterday on Maryland gun laws, but that
didn't stop you from posting your b.s, and getting defensive about it,
and you were too lazy to find the facts for yourself, even though they
are readily available.

I wasn't wrong about anything regarding Maryland's gun laws. I asked a
couple of questions.

I don't do homework for other people.

Sure you do, you've told us it is your job.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:40:26 -0400, Eisboch wrote:

"thunder" wrote in message
t...

It's also true that many hospitals go beyond the requirement,
regardless of the cost. Still, I wouldn't want to be in an emergency
room without insurance. Hell, even with insurance, a major sickness is
a leading cause of personal bankruptcy.

You've touched on the forbidden facet of health care. At what point is
someone's life worth destroying the lives of loved ones by putting them
in hopeless debt or bankrupcy?

If someone has a terminal illness, I might balk at spending hundreds of
thousands of dollars, for a few weeks more life. Short of that, I value
life far more than dollars. I understand your point. The last few
months of a life, probably cost more, medically, than the entire rest of
that life, but ...

Both of my folks, both in their nineties, are still going *relatively*
strong. My Mom just had a carpal tunnel operation. Now, some people
might say that's excessive. Not me, I saw the pain she was in.
Fortunately, they have good insurance, but if they hadn't, I wouldn't
have hesitated to pick up the tab.

Personally, I don't want to be calling those shots. Nor do I want the
insurance companies, nor the government calling them. I'll leave those
calls in the hands of a doctor. Anything short of that, smacks of
eugenics.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:04:33 -0400, H the K wrote:


It's also true that many hospitals go beyond the requirement,
regardless of the cost. Still, I wouldn't want to be in an emergency
room without insurance. Hell, even with insurance, a major sickness is
a leading cause of personal bankruptcy.

Very few *private* hospitals go above and beyond, since profit is their
motive.

Not true, Harry. Roughly 62% of our hospitals are non-profit, an
additional 20% are government hospitals. Only 18% are for profit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-profit_hospital

Sober thoughts on health care
 

Gene wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:21:50 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:24:22 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:02:37 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:15:00 -0400, Gene
wrote:

been in a state where the government is the only one to sell alcohol?
Sure, I live in one. How do the prices compare?
http://www.ncabc.com/pricing/pricebook.aspx

That is interesting. The price for Booker (single barrel whiskey) is
about the same but Johnnie Walker Scotch (black) is almost $25 more a
1.75l bottle.
Some of that may be that you have a tax of about $6.50/gal. and I
think ours is more like $10.00/gal.
Yeah those taxes will kill you, which brings us back to the topic.

It would seem to, but those taxes were enacted when the NC General
Assembly was stuffed full of fundie Baptists who successfully imposed
socially engineered behaviors on those less "of the body."

Commercially motivated interests, compelled by their need to
successfully entertain high powered buyers "from out of town", locked
horns with the fundies and finally won the battle, but with scars of
taxes and other bizarre restrictions. Those scars are still evident,
today....


I am in favor of assigning one of our 50 states to religious
fundamentals of any stripe who want to impose their beliefs on those who
either are of other faiths or no faith.

Once the state is assigned, the fundies should relocate to that state,
and engage in whatever kind of religious nonsense they wish, with the
understanding that the residents of that state will be free to terminate
them with extreme prejudice if they step over the lines of
community-city-state acceptibility.

Naturally, I'm thinking Texas would be the appropriate state for the
fundies, perhaps a decently sized section of it.

It's only the fundies who want to control those outside of their faith
that would have to move.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to
go to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk
in doctors office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc.
Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major
equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the hospital, where
I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and
Urgent Care clinics.

I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcomes that drives you
Harry?

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests
or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have
passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their
educations during their professional life.

RN's are not required to have a college degree. Medical corpsman do not
have college degrees nor do Army medics. Most EMTs and Phlebotomists do
not have college degrees either. Why are you shunning highly trained,
certified and licensed working stiffs? Hell some of them are in unions.
Nice of you to screw over the union guys you elitist snob.

I have a sister who started out as an LPN, became an RN, received her
BSN and now is an NP.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

thunder wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:04:33 -0400, H the K wrote:


It's also true that many hospitals go beyond the requirement,
regardless of the cost. Still, I wouldn't want to be in an emergency
room without insurance. Hell, even with insurance, a major sickness is
a leading cause of personal bankruptcy.
Very few *private* hospitals go above and beyond, since profit is their
motive.

Not true, Harry. Roughly 62% of our hospitals are non-profit, an
additional 20% are government hospitals. Only 18% are for profit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-profit_hospital


I don't see where your stat interferes with mine.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

H the K wrote:
Calif Bill wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a
long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the
insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to
go to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a
walk in doctors office. There were people there with hurting
ankle, etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no
major equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the
hospital, where I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than
our E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.
I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.

And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for
tests or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses
who have passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue
their educations during their professional life.





You may know about Maryland gun laws, but you know little about the
medical world. Rare is it an RN taking blood for your tests. They
are normally a phlebotomist. 4-8 months course.


Sorry, the nurses at my doctor's office are RN's or Nurse Practitioners.
Says so on their badges, on the office directories, on the diplomas
hanging on the walls of the various offices.

Ok. The last thing my sister, the Nurse Practicioner, does is draw blood
when there are RNs of any flavor or phlebotomists around. The scutt work
rolls down hill quickly.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to
go to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a
walk in doctors office. There were people there with hurting ankle,
etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major
equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the hospital, where
I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and
Urgent Care clinics.

I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcomes that drives you
Harry?

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for
tests or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses
who have passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue
their educations during their professional life.

RN's are not required to have a college degree. Medical corpsman do not
have college degrees nor do Army medics. Most EMTs and Phlebotomists do
not have college degrees either. Why are you shunning highly trained,
certified and licensed working stiffs? Hell some of them are in unions.
Nice of you to screw over the union guys you elitist snob.

I have a sister who started out as an LPN, became an RN, received her
BSN and now is an NP.


I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's
officesare college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's
who the doctors at our PPO hire.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

On Jul 19, 9:30*am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:



Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. *But now I understand that you're both "retired", with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. *Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. *And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager.

Sounds like she's getting the short end of the stick, in more than one
way. Good for you, though. :-)


I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. *However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. *Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic

But the people that can afford it are already paying into it, and you
know that when the gov gets involved, that percentage will not go
down. The care that's there will drop, will be rationed, and the
payees will pay more. Only problem is, unlike Mexico and Canada, we
have nowhere to go to get the care. Screwed again. Movement in the
job market is a non-starter... modern lack of company loyalty and
commitment is part of our problem. Few employees care about where
they work, and we wonder why the products and work ethics are crap?

Don't get me started about SS. Hope you aren't planning to pull out
more than you paid in, right? Government run ponzi scheme. Cash in
now and bankrupt our future generations... oh wait, that's already
happening, just through other means.

Tired, been boating all day. Later.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:19:38 -0400, Gene wrote:


Also true of the outlying dozen towns or so.... a total of over 500,000
people.... one hospital.

The national average is 2 hospitals per 100,000, but you'll note the
rural states have more hospitals per capita. Presumably, the hospitals
have fewer beds.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/hea...-health-total-
hospitals-per-capita

Sober thoughts on health care
 

BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
Calif Bill wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired",
with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost
25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a
long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the
insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and
I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some*
pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and
puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told
to go to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso"
entrance. Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc.
Was like a walk in doctors office. There were people there with
hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big
tests, no major equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to
the hospital, where I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup
than our E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.
I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.

And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for
tests or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses
who have passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue
their educations during their professional life.





You may know about Maryland gun laws, but you know little about the
medical world. Rare is it an RN taking blood for your tests. They
are normally a phlebotomist. 4-8 months course.


Sorry, the nurses at my doctor's office are RN's or Nurse
Practitioners. Says so on their badges, on the office directories, on
the diplomas hanging on the walls of the various offices.

Ok. The last thing my sister, the Nurse Practicioner, does is draw blood
when there are RNs of any flavor or phlebotomists around. The scutt work
rolls down hill quickly.


So?

Sober thoughts on health care
 

Jack wrote:



modern lack of company loyalty and
commitment is part of our problem. Few employees care about where
they work, and we wonder why the products and work ethics are crap?


Company loyalty? Commitment to the company? Give your life to the
company so that you can be laid off two years before your retirement or
your job is shifted overseas?

The only loyalty as a worker a working person should have is to
himself/herself and the family.

It used to be different...but that was before greed became the most
important corporate goal.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:23:05 -0400, H the K wrote:


It's only the fundies who want to control those outside of their faith
that would have to move.

There was a similar project several years ago, although I don't believe
it was fundamentalists. Might have been an anti-tax group. Anyway, they
were all going to move to a state so that there votes would control the
state. They picked New Hampshire.

Texas has to large a population to make any kind of dent in.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

thunder wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:23:05 -0400, H the K wrote:


It's only the fundies who want to control those outside of their faith
that would have to move.

There was a similar project several years ago, although I don't believe
it was fundamentalists. Might have been an anti-tax group. Anyway, they
were all going to move to a state so that there votes would control the
state. They picked New Hampshire.

Texas has to large a population to make any kind of dent in.


There was also some talk about fundies moving en masse to one of the
Carolinas, I think. What is it with these religious nutcases?

Sober thoughts on health care
 

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:40:14 -0500, thunder wrote:


There was a similar project several years ago, although I don't believe
it was fundamentalists. Might have been an anti-tax group. Anyway,
they were all going to move to a state so that there votes would control
the state. They picked New Hampshire.

Texas has to large a population to make any kind of dent in.

Found it:

http://www.freestateproject.org/intro

Sober thoughts on health care
 

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
Calif Bill wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired",
with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost
25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for
a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the
insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The
high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except
the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that
others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and
I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem
with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple
tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only
*some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and
puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while
in Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was
told to go to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso"
entrance. Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc.
Was like a walk in doctors office. There were people there with
hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big
tests, no major equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to
the hospital, where I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup
than our E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.
I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.

And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for
tests or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses
who have passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue
their educations during their professional life.





You may know about Maryland gun laws, but you know little about the
medical world. Rare is it an RN taking blood for your tests. They
are normally a phlebotomist. 4-8 months course.


Sorry, the nurses at my doctor's office are RN's or Nurse
Practitioners. Says so on their badges, on the office directories, on
the diplomas hanging on the walls of the various offices.

Ok. The last thing my sister, the Nurse Practicioner, does is draw
blood when there are RNs of any flavor or phlebotomists around. The
scutt work rolls down hill quickly.


So?

You are lying again! Or, they just don't want you fainting in the Quest
Diagnostics Lab and having an ambulance come and take you to the
hospital and then have to deal you being admitted for 24 hours worth of
observation.

Take your pick.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a
long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the
insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to
go to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a
walk in doctors office. There were people there with hurting
ankle, etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no
major equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the
hospital, where I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than
our E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.

I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcomes that drives you
Harry?

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for
tests or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses
who have passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue
their educations during their professional life.

RN's are not required to have a college degree. Medical corpsman do
not have college degrees nor do Army medics. Most EMTs and
Phlebotomists do not have college degrees either. Why are you
shunning highly trained, certified and licensed working stiffs? Hell
some of them are in unions. Nice of you to screw over the union guys
you elitist snob.

I have a sister who started out as an LPN, became an RN, received her
BSN and now is an NP.


I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's
officesare college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's
who the doctors at our PPO hire.

Your doctors are not good businessmen.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

H the K wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"thunder" wrote in message
t...
It's also true that many hospitals go beyond the requirement, regardless
of the cost. Still, I wouldn't want to be in an emergency room without
insurance. Hell, even with insurance, a major sickness is a leading
cause of personal bankruptcy.

You've touched on the forbidden facet of health care.
At what point is someone's life worth destroying the lives of loved
ones by
putting them in hopeless debt or bankrupcy?

Eisboch



Why should a family have to go into hopeless debt or bankruptcy for
medical care for a loved one, so long as there is a chance of prolonging
some sort of reasonable life for someone already here?

Your real issue is not with access it is with cost. The solution is not
insurance but with addressing the reason that the cost of health care is
increasing at such a steep rate.

That's such an anti-life position...be careful or the crazies will soon
be picketing outside your store, calling you an anti-lifer.

People fall down and hit there heads and die every day. It is noones
fault but there own.

Oh, wait...*they* only care about fetuses...once you're here, they don't
give a **** whether you live or die...

Right. Kill the innocent and let those guilty of killing others live.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
Calif Bill wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired",
with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost
25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for
a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her
unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the
insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The
high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch
except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that
others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work
and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem
with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple
tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only
*some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles
and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while
in Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was
told to go to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso"
entrance. Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc.
Was like a walk in doctors office. There were people there with
hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No
big tests, no major equipment. If you needed more, they sent
you to the hospital, where I would have had to pay. Much cheaper
setup than our E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.
I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the
government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front
"Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a
Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she
can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.

And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for
tests or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate
nurses who have passed board exams, are licensed, and required to
continue their educations during their professional life.





You may know about Maryland gun laws, but you know little about the
medical world. Rare is it an RN taking blood for your tests. They
are normally a phlebotomist. 4-8 months course.


Sorry, the nurses at my doctor's office are RN's or Nurse
Practitioners. Says so on their badges, on the office directories,
on the diplomas hanging on the walls of the various offices.

Ok. The last thing my sister, the Nurse Practicioner, does is draw
blood when there are RNs of any flavor or phlebotomists around. The
scutt work rolls down hill quickly.


So?

You are lying again! Or, they just don't want you fainting in the Quest
Diagnostics Lab and having an ambulance come and take you to the
hospital and then have to deal you being admitted for 24 hours worth of
observation.

Take your pick.


What are you crazy boys raving about?

Sober thoughts on health care
 

BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired",
with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost
25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a
long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the
insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and
I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some*
pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and
puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told
to go to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso"
entrance. Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc.
Was like a walk in doctors office. There were people there with
hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big
tests, no major equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to
the hospital, where I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup
than our E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.

I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcomes that drives you
Harry?

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for
tests or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses
who have passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue
their educations during their professional life.

RN's are not required to have a college degree. Medical corpsman do
not have college degrees nor do Army medics. Most EMTs and
Phlebotomists do not have college degrees either. Why are you
shunning highly trained, certified and licensed working stiffs? Hell
some of them are in unions. Nice of you to screw over the union guys
you elitist snob.

I have a sister who started out as an LPN, became an RN, received her
BSN and now is an NP.


I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's
officesare college grads who have passed exams and are licensed.
That's who the doctors at our PPO hire.

Your doctors are not good businessmen.

Really? My guess is that every one of them makes a lot more than you do.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

"H the K" wrote in message
...

Why should a family have to go into hopeless debt or bankruptcy for
medical care for a loved one, so long as there is a chance of prolonging
some sort of reasonable life for someone already here?

That's such an anti-life position...be careful or the crazies will soon be
picketing outside your store, calling you an anti-lifer.


Oh, wait...*they* only care about fetuses...once you're here, they don't
give a **** whether you live or die...


:)

I hardly think anyone will be picketing outside my shop. At least not about
that subject.
The answer lies in the fact that most people make private, responsible
decisions.
I have. Have you?

Eisboch

Sober thoughts on health care
 

"thunder" wrote in message
t...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:40:26 -0400, Eisboch wrote:

"thunder" wrote in message
t...

It's also true that many hospitals go beyond the requirement,
regardless of the cost. Still, I wouldn't want to be in an emergency
room without insurance. Hell, even with insurance, a major sickness is
a leading cause of personal bankruptcy.

You've touched on the forbidden facet of health care. At what point is
someone's life worth destroying the lives of loved ones by putting them
in hopeless debt or bankrupcy?

If someone has a terminal illness, I might balk at spending hundreds of
thousands of dollars, for a few weeks more life. Short of that, I value
life far more than dollars. I understand your point. The last few
months of a life, probably cost more, medically, than the entire rest of
that life, but ...

Both of my folks, both in their nineties, are still going *relatively*
strong. My Mom just had a carpal tunnel operation. Now, some people
might say that's excessive. Not me, I saw the pain she was in.
Fortunately, they have good insurance, but if they hadn't, I wouldn't
have hesitated to pick up the tab.

Personally, I don't want to be calling those shots. Nor do I want the
insurance companies, nor the government calling them. I'll leave those
calls in the hands of a doctor. Anything short of that, smacks of
eugenics.


I certainly don't think a carpal tunnel operation qualifies for the
decisions I alluded to.
Good for her.

I was thinking more of terminal conditions and the costs associated with
keeping people alive for a relatively short period of time. My father
developed stomach cancer back in 1998. He knew, as did I, what the
prognosis was and although he had health insurance coverage for all kinds of
treatment attempts, he made the decision to forego them and lived his final
months with some dignity.

Like I mentioned to Harry, it becomes a personal, responsible decision.

Eisboch

Sober thoughts on health care
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...


I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's officesare
college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's who the
doctors at our PPO hire.


Harry, we can only take you for your word, but your experience is very much
in the minority.
Almost elitist in a way.

In this dismal economy and rising unemployment, some of the few bright spots
for careers are in the fields of medical technicians, EMT's, nurses and
aids that do not require a college education. They require training and
certification of course, but they are fully qualified to perform many basic
procedures, leaving the RNs and Doctors free to deal with more important
activities.

With the shortage of RN's, we should be encouraging it.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...


Company loyalty? Commitment to the company? Give your life to the company
so that you can be laid off two years before your retirement or your job
is shifted overseas?

The only loyalty as a worker a working person should have is to
himself/herself and the family.

It used to be different...but that was before greed became the most
important corporate goal.


Y A W N

The more you keep repeating this mantra, the more you sound like someone who
consistantly got their ass kicked over the years.

You snooze, you lose.

Eisboch

Sober thoughts on health care
 

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:14:16 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


I was thinking more of terminal conditions and the costs associated with
keeping people alive for a relatively short period of time.

I understand that, and that's where decisions get very difficult. As
national policy, however, I would be looking to save costs in other
places, rather than life and death decisions. I have yet to hear a valid
reason our health costs are nearly twice that of other industrial
nations. There has to be considerable savings to be found in that 7-8%
GDP.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:29:16 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

The more you keep repeating this mantra, the more you sound like someone who
consistantly got their ass kicked over the years.


Doesn't play well with others.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a
long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance,
so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go
to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk
in doctors office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc.
Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major
equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the hospital, where I
would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and Urgent
Care clinics.

I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcomes that drives you
Harry?

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests
or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have
passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their
educations during their professional life.

RN's are not required to have a college degree. Medical corpsman do not
have college degrees nor do Army medics. Most EMTs and Phlebotomists do
not have college degrees either. Why are you shunning highly trained,
certified and licensed working stiffs? Hell some of them are in unions.
Nice of you to screw over the union guys you elitist snob.

I have a sister who started out as an LPN, became an RN, received her BSN
and now is an NP.


I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's officesare
college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's who the
doctors at our PPO hire.





Your doctors hire the nurse if she has a state license. As an RN (who later
got her degree) my mom stated one time we see if they are breathing before
we hire them. Shortage of nurses. Most nurses now get a degree. As the
nursing schools partner up with colleges. My mom went to school for 3
years, 11 months a year for a total of 33 months to get her RN. This was
1932. Which is almost the same time it takes for a 4 year college degree.
There is a nursing shortage. My mom at 90 years old, and still having a
valid registration (she worked until she was 91) got lots of offers for the
Registry. Fill in nurses.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"H the K" wrote in message
m...


Company loyalty? Commitment to the company? Give your life to the company
so that you can be laid off two years before your retirement or your job
is shifted overseas?

The only loyalty as a worker a working person should have is to
himself/herself and the family.

It used to be different...but that was before greed became the most
important corporate goal.


Y A W N

The more you keep repeating this mantra, the more you sound like someone
who consistantly got their ass kicked over the years.

You snooze, you lose.

Eisboch


Actually sounds more like greed of the employee. Give me the money and I
might help the company. Or maybe not.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

Eisboch wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's officesare
college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's who the
doctors at our PPO hire.


Harry, we can only take you for your word,

LOL


--
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.

This Newsgroup post is a natural product. The slight variations in
spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in
no way are to be considered flaws or defects

Sober thoughts on health care
 

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:30:25 -0400, gfretwell wrote:


There are lots of reasons why we have higher health costs. We generally
have less healthy lifestyles and diet. We invented "extreme sports" and
generally stupid human tricks people do, that result in a lot of
expensive injuries. We have a lot more violence in our cities that clogs
ERs every night and we have a big appetite for elective procedures.
We also have a huge lawyer tax. Ask your doctor what his insurance bill
is. Compare that to a Canadian doctor. Add in all the extra tests to
show "due diligence" that causes and you start to understand why we are
#1 in cost.

All of the above sound reasonable, although it does smack of blaming the
victim. I found this report that was made for Congress. It seems well
balanced, and contained several surprises for me.

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf

There are two main cost savings that jump out at me. Administrative
costs, we spent 20-25% of our health care dollars on administration. The
second would be, more professional health care workers, supply and
demand. I would also consider reducing the educational debt load that is
carried by our health care professionals. Perhaps even a free education,
for doctors.

One of the surprises was pharmaceuticals. We tend to pay more for new
drugs, but considerably less as the drugs get older. Overall, our
pharmaceutical spending, as a percentage of total health spending is
relatively low.

A second surprise, more visits to doctors, tend to keep the overall cost
of health care down. On first glance, perhaps counter-intuitive, but not
after thinking about it.

This country's obesity, as you pointed out above, is a problem.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

Eisboch wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's officesare
college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's who the
doctors at our PPO hire.


Harry, we can only take you for your word, but your experience is very much
in the minority.
Almost elitist in a way.

In this dismal economy and rising unemployment, some of the few bright spots
for careers are in the fields of medical technicians, EMT's, nurses and
aids that do not require a college education. They require training and
certification of course, but they are fully qualified to perform many basic
procedures, leaving the RNs and Doctors free to deal with more important
activities.

With the shortage of RN's, we should be encouraging it.




It's elitist to "accept" the health care providers my doctor's office
provides to its patients. I'll have to tell my doctor that the next time
I see him...I'm sure he'll have a good laugh over it.

I don't select the staff there...the doctors who own the practice do.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a
long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance,
so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go
to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk
in doctors office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc.
Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major
equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the hospital, where I
would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and Urgent
Care clinics.
I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.

And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."
Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcomes that drives you
Harry?

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests
or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have
passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their
educations during their professional life.
RN's are not required to have a college degree. Medical corpsman do not
have college degrees nor do Army medics. Most EMTs and Phlebotomists do
not have college degrees either. Why are you shunning highly trained,
certified and licensed working stiffs? Hell some of them are in unions.
Nice of you to screw over the union guys you elitist snob.

I have a sister who started out as an LPN, became an RN, received her BSN
and now is an NP.

I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's officesare
college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's who the
doctors at our PPO hire.





Your doctors hire the nurse if she has a state license. As an RN (who later
got her degree) my mom stated one time we see if they are breathing before
we hire them. Shortage of nurses. Most nurses now get a degree. As the
nursing schools partner up with colleges. My mom went to school for 3
years, 11 months a year for a total of 33 months to get her RN. This was
1932. Which is almost the same time it takes for a 4 year college degree.
There is a nursing shortage. My mom at 90 years old, and still having a
valid registration (she worked until she was 91) got lots of offers for the
Registry. Fill in nurses.




Now you are telling me *who* the doctors at the practice I utilize hire?

You boys are something else. What, I don't know.

Sober thoughts on health care
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...

It's elitist to "accept" the health care providers my doctor's office
provides to its patients. I'll have to tell my doctor that the next time I
see him...I'm sure he'll have a good laugh over it.

I don't select the staff there...the doctors who own the practice do.


When you were a kid did you also pedal your bicycle backwards?

Eisboch

My first experience with our system
 

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 10:55:55 -0700, Jim wrote:

Jack wrote:
Reformers' Claims Just Don't Add Up
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT

Health Reform: Many extravagant claims have been made on behalf of the
various health care "reforms" now emerging from Congress and the White
House. But on closer inspection, virtually all prove to be false.


I have what is continually described as "Gold Plated Health Care," by
those who tell me I have have the best and how happy I am, and get the
best health care in the world.

My hearing changed one afternoon, lost all high frequency hearing in the
right ear. This is "Sudden Hearing loss." According to what I have
read, immediate treatment (within one week) might restore the lost hearing.

The first Ear, Nose and Throat specialist insisted it was long term
hearing loss and isn't treatable.

Second opinion, second doctor, several days later, recognized it as
sudden hearing loss and sent me for an MRI, but no treatment was offered.

Got a referral to a good specialist, had to wait two months for an
appointment. I'm still waiting.

Now, just why is it that the Canadian system would be worse?

Look at our own rendition in Massachusetts"

"The current average wait time to see a primary care physician in
Massachusetts is 36 days, up from 34 days in 2007, according to the
report."

http://tinyurl.com/mdtvxq

And,
http://www.boston.com/news/health/ar...doctors_grows/

How long did it take you to see the first doctor?
--

John H

Sober thoughts on health care
 

Eisboch wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
It's elitist to "accept" the health care providers my doctor's office
provides to its patients. I'll have to tell my doctor that the next time I
see him...I'm sure he'll have a good laugh over it.

I don't select the staff there...the doctors who own the practice do.


When you were a kid did you also pedal your bicycle backwards?

Eisboch




Only when I shifted gears.

I'm sure my doc will get a kick out it when I tell him he has to hire
less qualified staff so the jackoffs on rec.boats will be happier with
the way he and his partners run their business.