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getting a survey on a used boat
The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this
useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. I know they're legally on the hook for certain things, but most surveyors I've talked to don't do mechanical surveys apart from a sea trial. (On my first boat, I had a mechanic do a compression check on the engine). They have enough caveats built into the report to enable them to avoid unpleasantness. Having the boat pulled from the water and looking at the hull seems to be their main focus, along with tapping the hull with a small hammer looking for soft spots. I have seen blistering and patching on hulls, etc.. The also turn on and off various systems...but so what? opinions? |
getting a survey on a used boat
On Jul 17, 11:20*am, wf3h wrote:
The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) *boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. I know they're legally on the hook for certain things, but most surveyors I've talked to don't do mechanical surveys apart from a sea trial. (On my first boat, I had a mechanic do a compression check on the engine). They have enough caveats built into the report to enable them to avoid unpleasantness. Having the boat pulled from the water and looking at the hull seems to be their main focus, along with tapping the hull with a small hammer looking for soft spots. *I have seen blistering and patching on hulls, etc.. *The also turn on and off various systems...but so what? opinions? The answer depends on your level of expertise and if $10,000 is a lot of money for you to take a reasonable risk. Some insurance companies, even for liability only insurance will require some level of survey although this may cost a lot less than a full survey. To insure my homebuilt 20' Tolman cost only $100 and he did very little except to verify I had the coast guard minimum requirements. A survey on my 28' S2 years ago when I bought her for $19,000 was about $300 and although it did not uncover anything I did not know was a confidence builder for me. I would wonder, Why is the boat cheap? is it cheap because it was originally poor construction? Is it cheap because of damage? Is it cheap because it is simply worn out? |
getting a survey on a used boat
wf3h wrote:
The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. I know they're legally on the hook for certain things, but most surveyors I've talked to don't do mechanical surveys apart from a sea trial. (On my first boat, I had a mechanic do a compression check on the engine). They have enough caveats built into the report to enable them to avoid unpleasantness. Having the boat pulled from the water and looking at the hull seems to be their main focus, along with tapping the hull with a small hammer looking for soft spots. I have seen blistering and patching on hulls, etc.. The also turn on and off various systems...but so what? opinions? I don't think it worthwhile to get a survey done on a $10,000 boat. What would be worthwhile is taking along a boating/mechanic friend for a boat ride during which he or she checks out *all* the systems to find out what is working and what is now, and also spend some time checking out the engine, transmission and exhaust, and if you can get to it, the fuel tank. Repairing any of the latter may cost big bucks. If there is structural wood in the boat (in the transom, under the decks, et cetera) you need to check for rot. What can go wrong on a boat? Everything. |
getting a survey on a used boat
On Jul 17, 11:30*am, Frogwatch wrote:
On Jul 17, 11:20*am, wf3h wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) *boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. I know they're legally on the hook for certain things, but most surveyors I've talked to don't do mechanical surveys apart from a sea trial. (On my first boat, I had a mechanic do a compression check on the engine). They have enough caveats built into the report to enable them to avoid unpleasantness. Having the boat pulled from the water and looking at the hull seems to be their main focus, along with tapping the hull with a small hammer looking for soft spots. *I have seen blistering and patching on hulls, etc.. *The also turn on and off various systems...but so what? opinions? The answer depends on your level of expertise and if $10,000 is a lot of money for you to take a reasonable risk. *Some insurance companies, even for liability only insurance will require some level of survey although this may cost a lot less than a full survey. *To insure my homebuilt 20' Tolman cost only $100 and he did very little except to verify I had the coast guard minimum requirements. *A survey on my 28' S2 years ago when I bought her for $19,000 was about $300 and although it did not uncover anything I did not know was a confidence builder for me. I would wonder, Why is the boat cheap? *is it cheap because it was originally poor construction? *Is it cheap because of damage? *Is it cheap because it is simply worn out?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - it's basically an old boat...1996. new engine which is a great feature. but it's 13 years old...and getting older, like the rest of us! |
getting a survey on a used boat
On Jul 17, 11:34*am, H the K wrote:
wf3h wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) *boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. I know they're legally on the hook for certain things, but most surveyors I've talked to don't do mechanical surveys apart from a sea trial. (On my first boat, I had a mechanic do a compression check on the engine). They have enough caveats built into the report to enable them to avoid unpleasantness. Having the boat pulled from the water and looking at the hull seems to be their main focus, along with tapping the hull with a small hammer looking for soft spots. *I have seen blistering and patching on hulls, etc.. *The also turn on and off various systems...but so what? opinions? I don't think it worthwhile to get a survey done on a $10,000 boat. What would be worthwhile is taking along a boating/mechanic friend for a boat ride during which he or she checks out *all* the systems to find out what is working and what is now, and also spend some time checking out the engine, transmission and exhaust, and if you can get to it, the fuel tank. Repairing any of the latter may cost big bucks. If there is structural wood in the boat (in the transom, under the decks, et cetera) you need to check for rot. What can go wrong on a boat? Everything.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - good points. it has a new fuel tank since it was replaced under warranty, but having a mechanic check it out would be worth it. |
getting a survey on a used boat
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:20:07 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. Well, let me put it this way. I'm pretty familiar with problems and such as far as the hull goes and I'm handy around engines - know what to look for in a general sense. A few years back, I became really interested in a early model Topaz 28' sportfisherman - twin 350s. I looked that boat over for three days before I committed to buy it - put the 10% down and called a surveyor, set up an appointment and off we went. He spent a whole five minutes before the $13,000 deal was off. That should tell you something. Do what you will, but it can be money well spent. And they aren't as vague as you seem to believe - their rep is on the line and they have to tell it like it is or they are going to get insurance companies on their asses if something happens. |
getting a survey on a used boat
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:34:58 -0400, H the K
wrote: wf3h wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. I know they're legally on the hook for certain things, but most surveyors I've talked to don't do mechanical surveys apart from a sea trial. (On my first boat, I had a mechanic do a compression check on the engine). They have enough caveats built into the report to enable them to avoid unpleasantness. Having the boat pulled from the water and looking at the hull seems to be their main focus, along with tapping the hull with a small hammer looking for soft spots. I have seen blistering and patching on hulls, etc.. The also turn on and off various systems...but so what? opinions? I don't think it worthwhile to get a survey done on a $10,000 boat. What would be worthwhile is taking along a boating/mechanic friend for a boat ride during which he or she checks out *all* the systems to find out what is working and what is now, and also spend some time checking out the engine, transmission and exhaust, and if you can get to it, the fuel tank. Repairing any of the latter may cost big bucks. If there is structural wood in the boat (in the transom, under the decks, et cetera) you need to check for rot. What can go wrong on a boat? Everything. And that's really the point isn't it. $10K is $10K and is it's a mispent and totally blown $10K, that ain't a hell of a lot of fun. 6% of the purchase price isn't a high price to pay. Plus, he might need it for insurance if it's older than 10 years old - I had to have the Halman surveyed to insure it and next year, the Ranger will have to be surveyed to insure it on renewal. |
getting a survey on a used boat
Captain Yogi of Woodstock wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:34:58 -0400, H the K wrote: wf3h wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. I know they're legally on the hook for certain things, but most surveyors I've talked to don't do mechanical surveys apart from a sea trial. (On my first boat, I had a mechanic do a compression check on the engine). They have enough caveats built into the report to enable them to avoid unpleasantness. Having the boat pulled from the water and looking at the hull seems to be their main focus, along with tapping the hull with a small hammer looking for soft spots. I have seen blistering and patching on hulls, etc.. The also turn on and off various systems...but so what? opinions? I don't think it worthwhile to get a survey done on a $10,000 boat. What would be worthwhile is taking along a boating/mechanic friend for a boat ride during which he or she checks out *all* the systems to find out what is working and what is now, and also spend some time checking out the engine, transmission and exhaust, and if you can get to it, the fuel tank. Repairing any of the latter may cost big bucks. If there is structural wood in the boat (in the transom, under the decks, et cetera) you need to check for rot. What can go wrong on a boat? Everything. And that's really the point isn't it. $10K is $10K and is it's a mispent and totally blown $10K, that ain't a hell of a lot of fun. 6% of the purchase price isn't a high price to pay. Plus, he might need it for insurance if it's older than 10 years old - I had to have the Halman surveyed to insure it and next year, the Ranger will have to be surveyed to insure it on renewal. Do you need a survey to get liability coverage? When I sold my 25' Parker a few years ago for a price above $50,000, I asked the buyer if he wanted to arrange for a surveyor. He didn't. Whatever happened to that Halman...that was one sweet boat. |
getting a survey on a used boat
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:36:20 -0400, H K
wrote: Captain Yogi of Woodstock wrote: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:34:58 -0400, H the K wrote: wf3h wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. I know they're legally on the hook for certain things, but most surveyors I've talked to don't do mechanical surveys apart from a sea trial. (On my first boat, I had a mechanic do a compression check on the engine). They have enough caveats built into the report to enable them to avoid unpleasantness. Having the boat pulled from the water and looking at the hull seems to be their main focus, along with tapping the hull with a small hammer looking for soft spots. I have seen blistering and patching on hulls, etc.. The also turn on and off various systems...but so what? opinions? I don't think it worthwhile to get a survey done on a $10,000 boat. What would be worthwhile is taking along a boating/mechanic friend for a boat ride during which he or she checks out *all* the systems to find out what is working and what is now, and also spend some time checking out the engine, transmission and exhaust, and if you can get to it, the fuel tank. Repairing any of the latter may cost big bucks. If there is structural wood in the boat (in the transom, under the decks, et cetera) you need to check for rot. What can go wrong on a boat? Everything. And that's really the point isn't it. $10K is $10K and is it's a mispent and totally blown $10K, that ain't a hell of a lot of fun. 6% of the purchase price isn't a high price to pay. Plus, he might need it for insurance if it's older than 10 years old - I had to have the Halman surveyed to insure it and next year, the Ranger will have to be surveyed to insure it on renewal. Do you need a survey to get liability coverage? I believe you do - I'm not sure. I do know you have to have it surveyed for other insurance. Whatever happened to that Halman...that was one sweet boat. Sold it to a guy up Maine - he bought it sight unseen, no questions asked as is. Hey, I offered to have it surveyed for him - said it wasn't a problem. |
getting a survey on a used boat
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:20:07 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. I know they're legally on the hook for certain things, but most surveyors I've talked to don't do mechanical surveys apart from a sea trial. (On my first boat, I had a mechanic do a compression check on the engine). They have enough caveats built into the report to enable them to avoid unpleasantness. Having the boat pulled from the water and looking at the hull seems to be their main focus, along with tapping the hull with a small hammer looking for soft spots. I have seen blistering and patching on hulls, etc.. The also turn on and off various systems...but so what? opinions? You may have difficulty getting insurance without. |
getting a survey on a used boat
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:27:25 -0400, Captain Wizard of Woodstock
wrote: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:20:07 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. Well, let me put it this way. I'm pretty familiar with problems and such as far as the hull goes and I'm handy around engines - know what to look for in a general sense. A few years back, I became really interested in a early model Topaz 28' sportfisherman - twin 350s. I looked that boat over for three days before I committed to buy it - put the 10% down and called a surveyor, set up an appointment and off we went. He spent a whole five minutes before the $13,000 deal was off. That should tell you something. Do what you will, but it can be money well spent. And they aren't as vague as you seem to believe - their rep is on the line and they have to tell it like it is or they are going to get insurance companies on their asses if something happens. What did he catch? |
getting a survey on a used boat
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:48:43 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote: On Jul 17, 11:30*am, Frogwatch wrote: On Jul 17, 11:20*am, wf3h wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) *boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. I know they're legally on the hook for certain things, but most surveyors I've talked to don't do mechanical surveys apart from a sea trial. (On my first boat, I had a mechanic do a compression check on the engine). They have enough caveats built into the report to enable them to avoid unpleasantness. Having the boat pulled from the water and looking at the hull seems to be their main focus, along with tapping the hull with a small hammer looking for soft spots. *I have seen blistering and patching on hulls, etc.. *The also turn on and off various systems...but so what? opinions? The answer depends on your level of expertise and if $10,000 is a lot of money for you to take a reasonable risk. *Some insurance companies, even for liability only insurance will require some level of survey although this may cost a lot less than a full survey. *To insure my homebuilt 20' Tolman cost only $100 and he did very little except to verify I had the coast guard minimum requirements. *A survey on my 28' S2 years ago when I bought her for $19,000 was about $300 and although it did not uncover anything I did not know was a confidence builder for me. I would wonder, Why is the boat cheap? *is it cheap because it was originally poor construction? *Is it cheap because of damage? *Is it cheap because it is simply worn out?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - it's basically an old boat...1996. new engine which is a great feature. but it's 13 years old...and getting older, like the rest of us! Geez, my last boat was 1987 and I thought it was pretty new. |
getting a survey on a used boat
On Jul 17, 2:27*pm, Captain Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:20:07 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) *boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. Well, let me put it this way. *I'm pretty familiar with problems and such as far as the hull goes and I'm handy around engines - know what to look for in a general sense. A few years back, I became really interested in a early model Topaz 28' sportfisherman - twin 350s. *I looked that boat over for three days before I committed to buy it - put the 10% down and called a surveyor, set up an appointment and off we went. He spent a whole five minutes before the $13,000 deal was off. That should tell you something. Do what you will, but it can be money well spent. And they aren't as vague as you seem to believe - their rep is on the line and they have to tell it like it is or they are going to get insurance companies on their asses if something happens. interesting comment...and good observation, thanks |
getting a survey on a used boat
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:12:25 -0700, jps wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:27:25 -0400, Captain Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:20:07 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. Well, let me put it this way. I'm pretty familiar with problems and such as far as the hull goes and I'm handy around engines - know what to look for in a general sense. A few years back, I became really interested in a early model Topaz 28' sportfisherman - twin 350s. I looked that boat over for three days before I committed to buy it - put the 10% down and called a surveyor, set up an appointment and off we went. He spent a whole five minutes before the $13,000 deal was off. That should tell you something. Do what you will, but it can be money well spent. And they aren't as vague as you seem to believe - their rep is on the line and they have to tell it like it is or they are going to get insurance companies on their asses if something happens. What did he catch? No baffles in the exhaust, sea water had gotten up into the engines and they were siezed solid. Never got beyond the stern. :) |
getting a survey on a used boat
Wizard of Woodstock wrote in
: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:12:25 -0700, jps wrote: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:27:25 -0400, Captain Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:20:07 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. Well, let me put it this way. I'm pretty familiar with problems and such as far as the hull goes and I'm handy around engines - know what to look for in a general sense. A few years back, I became really interested in a early model Topaz 28' sportfisherman - twin 350s. I looked that boat over for three days before I committed to buy it - put the 10% down and called a surveyor, set up an appointment and off we went. He spent a whole five minutes before the $13,000 deal was off. That should tell you something. Do what you will, but it can be money well spent. And they aren't as vague as you seem to believe - their rep is on the line and they have to tell it like it is or they are going to get insurance companies on their asses if something happens. What did he catch? No baffles in the exhaust, sea water had gotten up into the engines and they were siezed solid. While I'm not debating that a survey is a good idea, if you couldn't tell both engines were siezed in three days of looking, without a survey, you should pick a different hobby. Maybe you have money to burn, but to me, that's like spending $600 for somebody to tell me there's a foot-sized hole in the hull. Survey or no, I would do my own preliminary check of the obvious before I shelled out for a pro. At a minimum, that would include starting all engines. |
getting a survey on a used boat
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getting a survey on a used boat
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:05:43 -0700, jps wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:52:22 -0400, Captain Zombie of Woodstock wrote: On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:22:14 +0000 (UTC), wrote: Wizard of Woodstock wrote in : On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:12:25 -0700, jps wrote: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:27:25 -0400, Captain Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:20:07 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: The gospel is that one gets a survey done. Has anyone found this useful, apart from your own experience looking at a boat, especially for cheap ($10K) boat? Is it worth it to get a survey done since on a 28' boat this costs about $600 in the NY area. Well, let me put it this way. I'm pretty familiar with problems and such as far as the hull goes and I'm handy around engines - know what to look for in a general sense. A few years back, I became really interested in a early model Topaz 28' sportfisherman - twin 350s. I looked that boat over for three days before I committed to buy it - put the 10% down and called a surveyor, set up an appointment and off we went. He spent a whole five minutes before the $13,000 deal was off. That should tell you something. Do what you will, but it can be money well spent. And they aren't as vague as you seem to believe - their rep is on the line and they have to tell it like it is or they are going to get insurance companies on their asses if something happens. What did he catch? No baffles in the exhaust, sea water had gotten up into the engines and they were siezed solid. While I'm not debating that a survey is a good idea, if you couldn't tell both engines were siezed in three days of looking, without a survey, you should pick a different hobby. Maybe you have money to burn, but to me, that's like spending $600 for somebody to tell me there's a foot-sized hole in the hull. Survey or no, I would do my own preliminary check of the obvious before I shelled out for a pro. At a minimum, that would include starting all engines. Ok genius - you start your engines on the hard - I'll wait. It makes sense to have the hull and systems checked before doing the mechanical. But you could certainly check compression on the hard. Imagine pulling a plug might have told the story... Probably, but that's the job for the surveyor. I did a external check, did the bilges, nothing appeared out of place and the engines didn't look abused in any sense - clean, fairly new. When I pulled the dip sticks, the oil was dark, not milky - that seemed to be sufficient. With no batteries on the boat, it also would have been a problem. If it had been an outboard, probably a little different. I never even thought of looking at the exhaust to check for baffle problems. I just learned something new the other day about inboards - one of the mechanics at the dealership I'm associated with was working on a Mercruiser - 5.7 and when he fired up the engine, I heard this clacking noise - asked him was it was, it was the exhaust baffles. Don't mess with things you don't know about. |
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