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Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. “There’s no evidence that authorities found the threats bona-fide,” Gonzalez said, questioning whether the group was trading in and out of Chrysler’s debt. He was told the group is a mix of original debt holders and parties who bought the debt at different prices. Hedge funds have been denied bids to keep their identities confidential in other cases, amid concerns about whether short- term trading interests or credit default swaps give them conflicts of interest in bankruptcy proceedings. Gonzalez compared his ruling to a 2007 decision from U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Allan Gropper, who forced a group of hedge funds that invested in Northwest Airlines Corp. to fully disclose the size of its members’ stakes in the carrier. - - - Heads on pikes... |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
"HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. - - - Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Eisboch |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
On Wed, 6 May 2009 07:09:17 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote: Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Yes. The bankruptcy court is bound by limits of law, but the judge does have some discretion. He may rule for those that Obama showed disdain for. We don't want the executive unduly influencing the judiciary, as has happened in past Presidencies. Not naming names here. I wonder if any of the creditors are insured against these losses. By AIG, or is it AIU, or have they renamed it again. --Vic |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
On May 6, 7:09*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. *- - - Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? * *For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. * It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. *It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. *Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". *In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. * This will be interesting to watch. Eisboch- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's obvious that Harry knows nothing about business. His idea of big business is letting the government do anything and everything. And no, that's not necessarily liberal thinking, it's dark ages thinking. |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. - - - Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Eisboch Sorry, I have no sympathy for wealthy hedge funders, currency manipulators and their ilk. |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. - - - Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Eisboch Which is really what is going on here. Government and the corrupt are trying to screw the bond holders. That is, welch on the debt. If the courts don't uphold the bond holders right to secured property and a fair shake, then you might as well hang a shingle out saying "In America we don't pay our debts" and get the sub-zero credit rating cast in stone. There isn't a liquidity crisis, there is a shortage of people paying their debts dropping the nations credit rating. Government needs to support and not try to end run debt laws. But then, government is the biggest default debtor in the land. Scary thought. |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Wed, 6 May 2009 07:09:17 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Yes. The bankruptcy court is bound by limits of law, but the judge does have some discretion. He may rule for those that Obama showed disdain for. We don't want the executive unduly influencing the judiciary, as has happened in past Presidencies. Not naming names here. I wonder if any of the creditors are insured against these losses. By AIG, or is it AIU, or have they renamed it again. --Vic I don't think the judge has much of a choice, bond holders deserve a better shake. The debtors can't just wave a wand and forget about the money they owe and the prperties they pleged to bond holders. They should be told their fanatasies are sociopathic and corrupt. It is also why as an investor I will not touch an instrument in North America that involves mortgages, debt, loaning, bonds you name it. Even money markets, I stear clear. As GM & Chrysler are not the only ones in default, governments too are increasingly in this pickle. They should just roll GM & Chrysler into chapter 7, sell everything off and pay out the debts per common everyday bankruptcy law. Someone will buy GM & Chrysler without the baggage and turn it around. Debtors need a wakeup call. Lets hope the courts stick up for decency and Obama does not sell out the taxpayer too much in the process. |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
Canuck57 wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. - - - Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Eisboch Which is really what is going on here. Government and the corrupt are trying to screw the bond holders. That is, welch on the debt. Money, property, and investments are no more valuable than life, liberty, access to health care and a decent job. American workers have been getting screwed for decades by the monied interests. Where's *their* ownership/equity? Where? The monied interests destroyed it. |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
Canuck57 wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Wed, 6 May 2009 07:09:17 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Yes. The bankruptcy court is bound by limits of law, but the judge does have some discretion. He may rule for those that Obama showed disdain for. We don't want the executive unduly influencing the judiciary, as has happened in past Presidencies. Not naming names here. I wonder if any of the creditors are insured against these losses. By AIG, or is it AIU, or have they renamed it again. --Vic I don't think the judge has much of a choice, bond holders deserve a better shake. Why should bond holders deserve better than workers who have been turned out of their jobs because of the crooks on wall street and in banking? |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
On May 6, 7:09*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. *- - - Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? * *For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. * It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. *It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. *Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". *In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. * This will be interesting to watch. Eisboch Maybe if they hadn't put their goofy-looking mustachioed leader in the ads, and built something earlier that people actually LIKED...this " might " have not happened. Their designers were grasping at straws. The only thing people seem to want, is the retro Challenger R/T. I've heard a rumour that people are paying 10,000 OVER list " just to get one ". |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. - - - Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Eisboch Sorry, I have no sympathy for wealthy hedge funders, currency manipulators and their ilk. Do you have any sympathy (or understanding) of contract law? Eisboch |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
HK wrote:
Canuck57 wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. - - - Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Eisboch Which is really what is going on here. Government and the corrupt are trying to screw the bond holders. That is, welch on the debt. Money, property, and investments are no more valuable than life, liberty, access to health care and a decent job. American workers have been getting screwed for decades by the monied interests. Where's *their* ownership/equity? Where? The monied interests destroyed it. You are such a socialist ass. Someone has to pay for health care and provide jobs. By "jobs", are you implying work. They are two different things, you know. Liberty has associated costs too. This push for socialism is going to be the end of the good ole U S of A if it isn't stopped. Wake up America. And F. Y. Harry. |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
"HK" wrote in message m... Money, property, and investments are no more valuable than life, liberty, access to health care and a decent job. American workers have been getting screwed for decades by the monied interests. Where's *their* ownership/equity? Where? The monied interests destroyed it. In this case, it really doesn't matter. Other than the Jeep line, (which will probably be sold off as a whole entity, either by the bankruptcy court or by Fiat if they prevail) Chrysler really doesn't have a product worth salvaging. The soccer mom Caravan is long in the tooth and due for a replacement. Fiat is interested primarily in reestablishing a market in the USA. They have already announced plans to introduce the Fiat 500 to compete with other fuel efficient vehicles. They also are not putting up much (if any) money to gain the 20 percent ownership of Chrysler. The unions will control 55 percent and the US government the rest. As the operational arm of Chrysler, Fiat will basically restructure the entire company as a marketing arm for their products. They may eventually do some minor assembly of their products here like Toyota and Honda, but there's no way the company will survive as it now exists. Obama's promise was to guaranty union pension benefits using taxpayer's money. Chrysler has been dead for years ... since before Mercedes tried to revive it. Didn't work. No pulse. Eisboch |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
HK wrote:
Canuck57 wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Wed, 6 May 2009 07:09:17 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Yes. The bankruptcy court is bound by limits of law, but the judge does have some discretion. He may rule for those that Obama showed disdain for. We don't want the executive unduly influencing the judiciary, as has happened in past Presidencies. Not naming names here. I wonder if any of the creditors are insured against these losses. By AIG, or is it AIU, or have they renamed it again. --Vic I don't think the judge has much of a choice, bond holders deserve a better shake. Why should bond holders deserve better than workers who have been turned out of their jobs because of the crooks on wall street and in banking? It's pretty hard to motivate "workers" to do work when there is little incentive to do so. You know, Socialistic tendencies of collective bargaining. |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
On May 6, 9:29*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
Obama's promise was to guaranty union pension benefits using taxpayer's money. Eisboch Yup, pay back for the election. |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
"jim78565" wrote in message ... HK wrote: Canuck57 wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. - - - Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Eisboch Which is really what is going on here. Government and the corrupt are trying to screw the bond holders. That is, welch on the debt. Money, property, and investments are no more valuable than life, liberty, access to health care and a decent job. American workers have been getting screwed for decades by the monied interests. Where's *their* ownership/equity? Where? The monied interests destroyed it. You are such a socialist ass. Someone has to pay for health care and provide jobs. By "jobs", are you implying work. They are two different things, you know. Liberty has associated costs too. This push for socialism is going to be the end of the good ole U S of A if it isn't stopped. Wake up America. And F. Y. Harry. It amazes me how some people can quickly disregard the notion of a binding, lawful contract when their purposes are no longer served. I wonder how those of Harry's thinking would feel if they lost a significant amount of money, say the bulk of their retirement funds, due to a company going belly-up and, instead of liquidating the assets and distributing them equally to the stockholders, the assets were instead "given" to another entity and the stockholders got nothing or next to nothing. They'd be screaming bloody murder. But that's basically what is being attempted in the case of Chrysler. Eisboch |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
On May 6, 9:29*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Money, property, and investments are no more valuable than life, liberty, access to health care and a decent job. American workers have been getting screwed for decades by the monied interests. Where's *their* ownership/equity? Where? The monied interests destroyed it. In this case, it really doesn't matter. Other than the Jeep line, (which will probably be sold off as a whole entity, either by the bankruptcy court or by Fiat if they prevail) *Chrysler really doesn't have a product worth salvaging. * The soccer mom Caravan is long in the tooth and due for a replacement. Fiat is interested primarily in reestablishing a market in the USA. * They have already announced plans to introduce the Fiat 500 to compete with other fuel efficient vehicles. * They also are not putting up much (if any) money to gain the 20 percent ownership of Chrysler. * The unions will control 55 percent and the US government the rest. * As the operational arm of Chrysler, Fiat will basically restructure the entire company as a marketing arm for their products. * They may eventually do some minor assembly of their products here like Toyota and Honda, but there's no way the company will survive as it now exists. Obama's promise was to guaranty union pension benefits using taxpayer's money. Chrysler has been dead for years ... since before Mercedes tried to revive it. * Didn't work. *No pulse. Eisboch They have already announced plans to introduce the Fiat 500 to compete with other fuel efficient vehicles. Have you seen the crash tests at 40 MPH....SCARY to say the least. They better make it beefier than the Euro models. After looking at the Smart for 2 crash into a heavy Mercedes ( drivers side impact on both, head on ) , I'd trust a Smart before a Fiat 500. If you want to see REAL scary crash tests...go look up the Chery Amulet, a total DEATH-TRAP. The Russian junk fares no better. There's an awesome crash simulation of the Smart (radio-controlled) hitting an angled cement barrier at 70 MPH. The occupants would survive. They could still open the passenger door. I wonder if they'll try to resurect the Isetta. God help us....... |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
wrote in message ... Have you seen the crash tests at 40 MPH....SCARY to say the least. They better make it beefier than the Euro models. After looking at the Smart for 2 crash into a heavy Mercedes ( drivers side impact on both, head on ) , I'd trust a Smart before a Fiat 500. If you want to see REAL scary crash tests...go look up the Chery Amulet, a total DEATH-TRAP. The Russian junk fares no better. There's an awesome crash simulation of the Smart (radio-controlled) hitting an angled cement barrier at 70 MPH. The occupants would survive. They could still open the passenger door. I wonder if they'll try to resurect the Isetta. God help us....... --------------------------------------- I've owned three Fiats, a 500, a 850 Spider and a 850 coupe. The first two were in Italy and I couldn't ship them back to the US because they didn't meet safety standards, even back in the 70's. I bought the coupe in the US and kept it for a while. None were exactly "quality" cars, but we survived by not crashing into anything. The early Fiat 500s were basically disposable cars. I think they had 20 hp. In Italy, back in the 60's, you could buy a brand new one for about $700 and they were driven for about 30K miles then thrown away. We used to get a big kick out of seeing three generations of an Italian family, all cram-packed into a Fiat 500 heading off to the soccer stadium in Naples. The one we had looked like this: http://www.happyrent.com/hrincentive...l-fiat-500.htm Eisboch |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
On Wed, 6 May 2009 07:09:17 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. What has happened to the American taxpayer, you, me, the liberal Sob Brothers Group who post here is this - Obama and his minions buried the fact that they don’t expect repayment on any of the TARP funds granted to Chrysler and won’t even keep a position in the company for any extended period of time. The American taxpayer will get nothing for the billions of dollars showered on Chrysler from which the UAW and FIAT will benefit the most. Obama's administration said just yesterday that the $8 billion in “bridge loans” the U.S. taxpayer has given to Chrysler over the past six months, including $4 billion in bankruptcy financing, won’t be paid back. Taxpayers also won’t be getting a big slug of Chrysler stock in exchange. http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news...oans/index.htm Chrysler will be divided up among Fiat, Chrysler’s unions, and Chrysler’s debtholders. Which means that the taxpayers’ $8 billion was a gift to these three consitituencies. I wonder whether the Obama administration will explain its “gift” to the saps who paid for it. I’d say that the explanation is obvious. The White House wanted to pay off the UAW and used the shell of Chrysler to do it. How do you like your boy now? |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2009 07:09:17 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. What has happened to the American taxpayer, you, me, the liberal Sob Brothers Group who post here is this - Obama and his minions buried the fact that they don’t expect repayment on any of the TARP funds granted to Chrysler and won’t even keep a position in the company for any extended period of time. The American taxpayer will get nothing for the billions of dollars showered on Chrysler from which the UAW and FIAT will benefit the most. Obama's administration said just yesterday that the $8 billion in “bridge loans” the U.S. taxpayer has given to Chrysler over the past six months, including $4 billion in bankruptcy financing, won’t be paid back. Taxpayers also won’t be getting a big slug of Chrysler stock in exchange. http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news...oans/index.htm Chrysler will be divided up among Fiat, Chrysler’s unions, and Chrysler’s debtholders. Which means that the taxpayers’ $8 billion was a gift to these three consitituencies. I wonder whether the Obama administration will explain its “gift” to the saps who paid for it. I’d say that the explanation is obvious. The White House wanted to pay off the UAW and used the shell of Chrysler to do it. How do you like your boy now? If you mean Obama, just fine. I think it entirely appropriate for the government to take steps, including blowing if necessary some billions of dollars to try to save a significant U.S. industry. I've seen a number of estimates of $2 trillion plus as the ultimate cost of Bush's trumped up war against Iraq. What will we taxpayers have to show for that, aside from 4000+ bodies of U.S. service personnel, tens of thousands of seriously ill or injured service personnel, and for the Iraqis, tens of thousands dead, maybe hundreds of thousands. I'll bet Halliburton and other contractors in Iraq cost us more than the Chrysler bailouts. I don't recall you or the other righties whining about the hundreds of billions we blew in Iraq under Bush. |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
"HK" wrote in message m... Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: The American taxpayer will get nothing for the billions of dollars showered on Chrysler from which the UAW and FIAT will benefit the most. Obama's administration said just yesterday that the $8 billion in “bridge loans” the U.S. taxpayer has given to Chrysler over the past six months, including $4 billion in bankruptcy financing, won’t be paid back. Taxpayers also won’t be getting a big slug of Chrysler stock in exchange. http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news...oans/index.htm Chrysler will be divided up among Fiat, Chrysler’s unions, and Chrysler’s debtholders. Which means that the taxpayers’ $8 billion was a gift to these three consitituencies. I wonder whether the Obama administration will explain its “gift” to the saps who paid for it. I’d say that the explanation is obvious. The White House wanted to pay off the UAW and used the shell of Chrysler to do it. How do you like your boy now? If you mean Obama, just fine. I think it entirely appropriate for the government to take steps, including blowing if necessary some billions of dollars to try to save a significant U.S. industry. Problem is, Chrysler was DOA. Has been for years. Chrysler knew that. Daimler knew that. The financial group that bought it from Dampier knew that. It should have been allowed to go to Chapter 11 or 7 peacefully and not have cost another $8B. Tom's is right. The taxpayer can kiss 8 billion away for an eventuality that would have been exactly the same for nothing. Here's another good one ..... Bank of America: http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/242096/Stress-Test-Shocker-BofA-Needs-34B-But-That%27s-%22Good-News%22-for-Ken-Lewis-&-Co.?tickers=BAC,C,XLF,SKF,FAS,FAZ,^DJI Good thing those printing presses are humming. Eisboch |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: The American taxpayer will get nothing for the billions of dollars showered on Chrysler from which the UAW and FIAT will benefit the most. Obama's administration said just yesterday that the $8 billion in “bridge loans” the U.S. taxpayer has given to Chrysler over the past six months, including $4 billion in bankruptcy financing, won’t be paid back. Taxpayers also won’t be getting a big slug of Chrysler stock in exchange. http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news...oans/index.htm Chrysler will be divided up among Fiat, Chrysler’s unions, and Chrysler’s debtholders. Which means that the taxpayers’ $8 billion was a gift to these three consitituencies. I wonder whether the Obama administration will explain its “gift” to the saps who paid for it. I’d say that the explanation is obvious. The White House wanted to pay off the UAW and used the shell of Chrysler to do it. How do you like your boy now? If you mean Obama, just fine. I think it entirely appropriate for the government to take steps, including blowing if necessary some billions of dollars to try to save a significant U.S. industry. Problem is, Chrysler was DOA. Has been for years. Chrysler knew that. Daimler knew that. The financial group that bought it from Dampier knew that. It should have been allowed to go to Chapter 11 or 7 peacefully and not have cost another $8B. Tom's is right. The taxpayer can kiss 8 billion away for an eventuality that would have been exactly the same for nothing. Here's another good one .... Bank of America: http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/242096/Stress-Test-Shocker-BofA-Needs-34B-But-That%27s-%22Good-News%22-for-Ken-Lewis-&-Co.?tickers=BAC,C,XLF,SKF,FAS,FAZ,^DJI Good thing those printing presses are humming. Eisboch Thanks to bush, the taxpayers are throwing away TWO TRILLION DOLLARS on Iraq. Old Tom didn't object to that waste of money. |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: The American taxpayer will get nothing for the billions of dollars showered on Chrysler from which the UAW and FIAT will benefit the most. Obama's administration said just yesterday that the $8 billion in “bridge loans” the U.S. taxpayer has given to Chrysler over the past six months, including $4 billion in bankruptcy financing, won’t be paid back. Taxpayers also won’t be getting a big slug of Chrysler stock in exchange. http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news...oans/index.htm Chrysler will be divided up among Fiat, Chrysler’s unions, and Chrysler’s debtholders. Which means that the taxpayers’ $8 billion was a gift to these three consitituencies. I wonder whether the Obama administration will explain its “gift” to the saps who paid for it. I’d say that the explanation is obvious. The White House wanted to pay off the UAW and used the shell of Chrysler to do it. How do you like your boy now? If you mean Obama, just fine. I think it entirely appropriate for the government to take steps, including blowing if necessary some billions of dollars to try to save a significant U.S. industry. Problem is, Chrysler was DOA. Has been for years. Chrysler knew that. Daimler knew that. The financial group that bought it from Dampier knew that. It should have been allowed to go to Chapter 11 or 7 peacefully and not have cost another $8B. Tom's is right. The taxpayer can kiss 8 billion away for an eventuality that would have been exactly the same for nothing. Here's another good one .... Bank of America: http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/242096/Stress-Test-Shocker-BofA-Needs-34B-But-That%27s-%22Good-News%22-for-Ken-Lewis-&-Co.?tickers=BAC,C,XLF,SKF,FAS,FAZ,^DJI Good thing those printing presses are humming. Eisboch Thanks to bush, the taxpayers are throwing away TWO TRILLION DOLLARS on Iraq. Old Tom didn't object to that waste of money. One of the many frustrating things about discussing things with you is that you can't seem to focus on the subject. Whenever a legitimate point is made that you don't agree with, you counter with something totally not germane to the subject matter. Like you just did. Bush, Iraq and it's cost have absolutely nothing to do with giving away $8 billion to unions. Eisboch |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: The American taxpayer will get nothing for the billions of dollars showered on Chrysler from which the UAW and FIAT will benefit the most. Obama's administration said just yesterday that the $8 billion in “bridge loans” the U.S. taxpayer has given to Chrysler over the past six months, including $4 billion in bankruptcy financing, won’t be paid back. Taxpayers also won’t be getting a big slug of Chrysler stock in exchange. http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news...oans/index.htm Chrysler will be divided up among Fiat, Chrysler’s unions, and Chrysler’s debtholders. Which means that the taxpayers’ $8 billion was a gift to these three consitituencies. I wonder whether the Obama administration will explain its “gift” to the saps who paid for it. I’d say that the explanation is obvious. The White House wanted to pay off the UAW and used the shell of Chrysler to do it. How do you like your boy now? If you mean Obama, just fine. I think it entirely appropriate for the government to take steps, including blowing if necessary some billions of dollars to try to save a significant U.S. industry. Problem is, Chrysler was DOA. Has been for years. Chrysler knew that. Daimler knew that. The financial group that bought it from Dampier knew that. It should have been allowed to go to Chapter 11 or 7 peacefully and not have cost another $8B. Tom's is right. The taxpayer can kiss 8 billion away for an eventuality that would have been exactly the same for nothing. Here's another good one .... Bank of America: http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/242096/Stress-Test-Shocker-BofA-Needs-34B-But-That%27s-%22Good-News%22-for-Ken-Lewis-&-Co.?tickers=BAC,C,XLF,SKF,FAS,FAZ,^DJI Good thing those printing presses are humming. Eisboch Thanks to bush, the taxpayers are throwing away TWO TRILLION DOLLARS on Iraq. Old Tom didn't object to that waste of money. One of the many frustrating things about discussing things with you is that you can't seem to focus on the subject. Whenever a legitimate point is made that you don't agree with, you counter with something totally not germane to the subject matter. Like you just did. Bush, Iraq and it's cost have absolutely nothing to do with giving away $8 billion to unions. Eisboch Ohhhhhh....*unions* Now I get it. Halliburton, Blackwater, goooooood. Unions...baaaaaaaaad. Now it makes sense. P.S. I thought we were discussing wasting taxpayer dollars. I can't think of a bigger waste in recent years than Bush's war against Iraq. Two trillion dollars down the toilet. |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
"HK" wrote in message m... P.S. I thought we were discussing wasting taxpayer dollars. I can't think of a bigger waste in recent years than Bush's war against Iraq. Two trillion dollars down the toilet. Time to change your answering machine message. And by the way .... that two trillion dollars is not a fact. It's somebody's wild assed guess. The fact is that Obama has spent more money in bailouts and stimulus checks in 3 and a half months than Bush spent on the Iraq war in 8 years. Eisboch |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
On May 6, 6:02*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... P.S. I thought we were discussing wasting taxpayer dollars. I can't think of a bigger waste in recent years than Bush's war against Iraq. Two trillion dollars down the toilet. Time to change your answering machine message. And by the way .... that two trillion dollars is not a fact. *It's somebody's wild assed guess. The fact is that Obama has spent more money in bailouts and stimulus checks in 3 and a half months than Bush spent on the Iraq war in 8 years. Eisboch More to the point, he had handed his supporters more money in three months than Bush spent on the Iraq war in 8 years... He just gave 55% of the Chrysler company to the unions, and a major stake in the board room. Bank of America gave 2 billion of "stimulous" money to ACORN, and now he is trying to pay MSNBC (GE) billions on the cap and trade scam... It's nothing but a power grab, period... |
Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Chrysler Lenders Must Reveal Identities Today, Judge Rules By Tiffany Kary May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC dissident lenders have until 10 a.m. today to reveal their identities after a bankruptcy judge rejected claims that their safety was at risk because of anger over the automaker’s bankruptcy. U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Arthur Gonzalez in New York forced the group to file a list of its members publicly, denying their request to reveal their identities only to the bankruptcy court. Gonzalez said yesterday the lenders have no evidence that keeping their identities private would help protect them. The group seeks to block an auction of most company assets to an entity managed by Fiat SpA, an outcome Chrysler said would force it to liquidate, costing thousands of jobs. - - - Heads on pikes... Heads on pikes? For what, wanting to be anonymous due to reactions like yours? Although I agree the lender's names should be public, since it's a public legal action, but I also agree that the secured lenders have a legitimate claim to the assets. It's up to the BK judge to try to work out any compromise or agreement, according to law. Chrysler has unfortunately been dead for years. It's being kept alive by artificial means and financial manipulation. Daimler/Mercedes tried to resuscitate it to no avail and dumped it. Legitimate secured lenders have as much right to claim the assets as Fiat does, regardless of how you may feel about "saving jobs". In fact, any interference or manipulation of the bankruptcy court's proceedings by the Fed may be illegal. This will be interesting to watch. Eisboch Sorry, I have no sympathy for wealthy hedge funders, currency manipulators and their ilk. Do you have any sympathy (or understanding) of contract law? Eisboch Maybe Obama is trying to set a legal precedent. Then all those E bonds, Savings bonds, and T bills will be able to be settled for pennies on the dollar. Think China may go to war over that? |
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