More on Govt designed cars
 

Eisboch wrote:

"Johnson" wrote in message
...
jps wrote:

A heap for a truck definitely makes folks think twice about gettin'
too close. Before I had the exhaust redone it had a nasty hole
pre-muffler that was good for attracting attention and scaring the
crap out of nearby drivers and pedestrians.

Did it sound like a gunshot?

Johnson


Remember what we did as kids with new licenses? Drove Dad's car down
the street at speed and shut the ignition switch off for a few seconds,
then turned it back on.
The build up of fuel in the exhaust system usually blew a hole in the
muffler if you were successful. Instant hot rod.

Eisboch


I bought a glasspack muffler for my first car, which was either a 1948
Jeep station wagon or a 1952-53 AeroWillys, depending on what my father
would let me use when I was 16. He had rebuilt both. Anyway, the muffler
made the car louder. But either one of them still had almost no
horsepower! Do you remember that long hill - Amity Road, I think it was
called...and where it bottomed, it became Whalley Avenue? Got those cars
up to 55 mph going downhill there.

More on Govt designed cars
 

On May 1, 8:35*pm, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Johnson" wrote in message
m...
jps wrote:

A heap for a truck definitely makes folks think twice about gettin'
too close. *Before I had the exhaust redone it had a nasty hole
pre-muffler that was good for attracting attention and scaring the
crap out of nearby drivers and pedestrians.

Did it sound like a gunshot?

Johnson

Remember what we did as kids with new licenses? * Drove Dad's car down
the street at speed and shut the ignition switch off for a few seconds,
then turned it back on.
The build up of fuel in the exhaust system usually blew a hole in the
muffler if you were successful. *Instant hot rod.

Eisboch

I bought a glasspack muffler for my first car, which was either a 1948
Jeep station wagon or a 1952-53 AeroWillys, depending on what my father
would let me use when I was 16. He had rebuilt both. Anyway, the muffler
made the car louder. But either one of them still had almost no
horsepower! Do you remember that long hill - Amity Road, I think it was
called...and where it bottomed, it became Whalley Avenue? Got those cars
up to 55 mph going downhill there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pffffftttt.. Lobsta' boat!

More on Govt designed cars
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:

"Johnson" wrote in message
...
jps wrote:

A heap for a truck definitely makes folks think twice about gettin'
too close. Before I had the exhaust redone it had a nasty hole
pre-muffler that was good for attracting attention and scaring the
crap out of nearby drivers and pedestrians.

Did it sound like a gunshot?

Johnson


Remember what we did as kids with new licenses? Drove Dad's car down
the street at speed and shut the ignition switch off for a few seconds,
then turned it back on.
The build up of fuel in the exhaust system usually blew a hole in the
muffler if you were successful. Instant hot rod.

Eisboch


I bought a glasspack muffler for my first car, which was either a 1948
Jeep station wagon or a 1952-53 AeroWillys, depending on what my father
would let me use when I was 16. He had rebuilt both. Anyway, the muffler
made the car louder. But either one of them still had almost no
horsepower! Do you remember that long hill - Amity Road, I think it was
called...and where it bottomed, it became Whalley Avenue? Got those cars
up to 55 mph going downhill there.

I remember both well. I recently took a "Google Earth" trip down in that
area.
It's amazing with all the photographs that people have taken that you can
zoom in on and then get a 360 degree view of a particular area. Brought
back a lot of memories. I haven't physically visited the area for what,
about 40 years? But I remember it all because it's where I first got my
driver's license.

Eisboch

More on Govt designed cars
 

On Fri, 01 May 2009 18:49:21 -0400, Johnson
wrote:

jps wrote:

A heap for a truck definitely makes folks think twice about gettin'
too close. Before I had the exhaust redone it had a nasty hole
pre-muffler that was good for attracting attention and scaring the
crap out of nearby drivers and pedestrians.

Did it sound like a gunshot?

Johnson

No, it did not. I hope they have trucks wherever it is you live.

OT electric cars was govt cars
 

On Fri, 01 May 2009 15:49:28 -0400, wrote:

Smokey Yanuck

Smokey Yunick. He didn't invent cheating at NASCAR racing, but he held
most of the basic patents.

Casady

More on Govt designed cars
 

On Fri, 01 May 2009 18:49:21 -0400, Johnson
wrote:

A heap for a truck definitely makes folks think twice about gettin'
too close. Before I had the exhaust redone it had a nasty hole
pre-muffler that was good for attracting attention and scaring the
crap out of nearby drivers and pedestrians.

I had a 57 Volvo that had been painted flat black with a brush, and
had a channel iron front bumper. City busses were scared of it,

Casady

More on Govt designed cars
 

On Fri, 1 May 2009 19:39:14 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Remember what we did as kids with new licenses? Drove Dad's car down the
street at speed and shut the ignition switch off for a few seconds, then
turned it back on.
The build up of fuel in the exhaust system usually blew a hole in the
muffler if you were successful. Instant hot rod.

I wouldn't call them hot rodders, but... It started as you say and
progressed to a spark plug and a fuel nozzle in the tail pipe.
The arms race culminated in a propane tank in the trunk and twenty
five foot tongues of flame. Ultimate no go showboat.

Casady

More on Govt designed cars
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...

I had a 57 Volvo that had been painted flat black with a brush, and
had a channel iron front bumper. City busses were scared of it,

Casady


Reminds me of another adventure raising kids.

When my daughter was about 12 years old I had an old Chevy "Luv" pickup
truck that we kept in the backyard. Painted it black with a paintbrush and
used it as a motorized wheelbarrow while clearing some land area. It was a
wreck, but it ran.

Anyway, the yard was big and I let my daughter drive it around once in a
while figuring it was a good way for her to learn how to drive a manual
transmission. Problem was the engine had a leaky head gasket and the
radiator was always slowly losing water. I told my daughter that before
she used it to make sure she could see water in the radiator.

A few days later she announced that the truck wouldn't start anymore. We
went out to check it out. When I turned the key to start it, the engine
didn't budge. Meanwhile my daughter is yapping away telling me that she had
checked the water, didn't see any, so she filled it up.

I asked her *where* she put the water. Sure enough, she had removed the
air filter and filled the carburetor to the top.

One Chevy Luv off to the junkyard.

Eisboch

More on Govt designed cars
 

On Sat, 2 May 2009 07:51:31 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Richard Casady" wrote in message
.. .

I had a 57 Volvo that had been painted flat black with a brush, and
had a channel iron front bumper. City busses were scared of it,

Casady


Reminds me of another adventure raising kids.

When my daughter was about 12 years old I had an old Chevy "Luv" pickup
truck that we kept in the backyard. Painted it black with a paintbrush and
used it as a motorized wheelbarrow while clearing some land area. It was a
wreck, but it ran.

Anyway, the yard was big and I let my daughter drive it around once in a
while figuring it was a good way for her to learn how to drive a manual
transmission. Problem was the engine had a leaky head gasket and the
radiator was always slowly losing water. I told my daughter that before
she used it to make sure she could see water in the radiator.

A few days later she announced that the truck wouldn't start anymore. We
went out to check it out. When I turned the key to start it, the engine
didn't budge. Meanwhile my daughter is yapping away telling me that she had
checked the water, didn't see any, so she filled it up.

I asked her *where* she put the water. Sure enough, she had removed the
air filter and filled the carburetor to the top.

One Chevy Luv off to the junkyard.

Thata'll teach ya.
One of my sons is an engineer. General Engineer, University of
Illinois. Don't ask me what that is. I never could get it out of
him. But he's doing well with it.
He worked at Chicago Dryer doing summer factory work while in college
and made enough money to buy a used Hyundai.
He was real happy with the car, and that he paid for it himself.
About 6 months later the oil light was going on and we talked about it
on the phone.
He told me the oil level was fine, and I told him either the sender
was bad, the oil pump was bad, or the mains were shot.
I offered to have my mechanic check it out, but as usual he didn't
have the time, what with school and his socializing.
A few days later my daughter came over to visit, driving the son's car
because her car was down.
I walked her to driveway, chatting as she got in the car to leave.
Car sounded ok. Nice looking car. Oil light was going on and off.
Daughter was in a hurry to get the car back so son could take off for
Champagne and school, so I didn't check the car out.
Next day I heard the car stops halfway to Champagne, and the tow truck
driver pulls the dipstick and finds it's out of oil. Engine shot.
Son watches tow truck driver do this and realizes he's been pulling
the trans dipstick to check the oil.
My son, the Engineer.
Damn, did my heart sink when I thought about how I should have checked
that oil when my daughter was there.
I was so sorry for him losing that car for something so stupid.
And a bit sorry for myself in helping him get another car too (-:
But I trusted my son when he said the oil level was fine.
He stills know squat about cars.
Easier to excuse your 12 year old daughter.
We can call that one "cute." (-:

--Vic

More on Govt designed cars
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 May 2009 07:51:31 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Richard Casady" wrote in message
. ..

I had a 57 Volvo that had been painted flat black with a brush, and
had a channel iron front bumper. City busses were scared of it,

Casady


Reminds me of another adventure raising kids.

When my daughter was about 12 years old I had an old Chevy "Luv" pickup
truck that we kept in the backyard. Painted it black with a paintbrush
and
used it as a motorized wheelbarrow while clearing some land area. It was
a
wreck, but it ran.

Anyway, the yard was big and I let my daughter drive it around once in a
while figuring it was a good way for her to learn how to drive a manual
transmission. Problem was the engine had a leaky head gasket and the
radiator was always slowly losing water. I told my daughter that before
she used it to make sure she could see water in the radiator.

A few days later she announced that the truck wouldn't start anymore. We
went out to check it out. When I turned the key to start it, the engine
didn't budge. Meanwhile my daughter is yapping away telling me that she
had
checked the water, didn't see any, so she filled it up.

I asked her *where* she put the water. Sure enough, she had removed the
air filter and filled the carburetor to the top.

One Chevy Luv off to the junkyard.

Thata'll teach ya.
One of my sons is an engineer. General Engineer, University of
Illinois. Don't ask me what that is. I never could get it out of
him. But he's doing well with it.
He worked at Chicago Dryer doing summer factory work while in college
and made enough money to buy a used Hyundai.
He was real happy with the car, and that he paid for it himself.
About 6 months later the oil light was going on and we talked about it
on the phone.
He told me the oil level was fine, and I told him either the sender
was bad, the oil pump was bad, or the mains were shot.
I offered to have my mechanic check it out, but as usual he didn't
have the time, what with school and his socializing.
A few days later my daughter came over to visit, driving the son's car
because her car was down.
I walked her to driveway, chatting as she got in the car to leave.
Car sounded ok. Nice looking car. Oil light was going on and off.
Daughter was in a hurry to get the car back so son could take off for
Champagne and school, so I didn't check the car out.
Next day I heard the car stops halfway to Champagne, and the tow truck
driver pulls the dipstick and finds it's out of oil. Engine shot.
Son watches tow truck driver do this and realizes he's been pulling
the trans dipstick to check the oil.
My son, the Engineer.
Damn, did my heart sink when I thought about how I should have checked
that oil when my daughter was there.
I was so sorry for him losing that car for something so stupid.
And a bit sorry for myself in helping him get another car too (-:
But I trusted my son when he said the oil level was fine.
He stills know squat about cars.
Easier to excuse your 12 year old daughter.
We can call that one "cute." (-:

--Vic

Good reminder.
Our 07 Charger has a few years of warranty left and regular (3x per year)
oil/lube visits, but I'm going to show him the basics...or at least find a
good basic book on routine maintenance.

More on Govt designed cars
 

Jim wrote:
BAR wrote:
wrote:
Bull****. Obama is taking away property form their lawful owners and
giving it to who he believes should posses that property.

I see some lawsuits in the near future. The 4th Amendment comes to mind.

I'm no expert here, but, isn't this what bankruptcy courts do every day?

The courts are setup to legally handle bankruptcy. Obama is doing
outside of the law.

OT electric cars was govt cars
 

On May 2, 7:12*am, Richard Casady wrote:
On Fri, 01 May 2009 15:49:28 -0400, wrote:
Smokey Yanuck

Smokey Yunick. He didn't invent cheating at NASCAR racing, but he held
most of the basic patents.

Casady

As far as engines go, yes, he could bend the rules with the best of
them!

More on Govt designed cars
 

On May 1, 8:35*pm, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Johnson" wrote in message
m...
jps wrote:

A heap for a truck definitely makes folks think twice about gettin'
too close. *Before I had the exhaust redone it had a nasty hole
pre-muffler that was good for attracting attention and scaring the
crap out of nearby drivers and pedestrians.

Did it sound like a gunshot?

Johnson

Remember what we did as kids with new licenses? * Drove Dad's car down
the street at speed and shut the ignition switch off for a few seconds,
then turned it back on.
The build up of fuel in the exhaust system usually blew a hole in the
muffler if you were successful. *Instant hot rod.

Eisboch

I bought a glasspack muffler for my first car, which was either a 1948
Jeep station wagon or a 1952-53 AeroWillys, depending on what my father
would let me use when I was 16. He had rebuilt both. Anyway, the muffler
made the car louder. But either one of them still had almost no
horsepower! Do you remember that long hill - Amity Road, I think it was
called...and where it bottomed, it became Whalley Avenue? Got those cars
up to 55 mph going downhill there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Was that before or after your father's alleged fireboat welcome in NYC?

More on Govt designed cars
 

On May 1, 8:52*pm, wrote:
On May 1, 8:35*pm, HK wrote:





Eisboch wrote:

"Johnson" wrote in message
m...
jps wrote:

A heap for a truck definitely makes folks think twice about gettin'
too close. *Before I had the exhaust redone it had a nasty hole
pre-muffler that was good for attracting attention and scaring the
crap out of nearby drivers and pedestrians.

Did it sound like a gunshot?

Johnson

Remember what we did as kids with new licenses? * Drove Dad's car down
the street at speed and shut the ignition switch off for a few seconds,
then turned it back on.
The build up of fuel in the exhaust system usually blew a hole in the
muffler if you were successful. *Instant hot rod.

Eisboch

I bought a glasspack muffler for my first car, which was either a 1948
Jeep station wagon or a 1952-53 AeroWillys, depending on what my father
would let me use when I was 16. He had rebuilt both. Anyway, the muffler
made the car louder. But either one of them still had almost no
horsepower! Do you remember that long hill - Amity Road, I think it was
called...and where it bottomed, it became Whalley Avenue? Got those cars
up to 55 mph going downhill there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pffffftttt.. Lobsta' boat!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Fireboat welcome!

More on Govt designed cars
 

thunder wrote:
On Fri, 01 May 2009 08:26:44 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:


If you had a gasoline electric a 30 year old truck would be in the junk
by now because of the cost of replacing the battery. From what I have
heard they have to be replaced every 6 to 8 years depending on use. With
that rate of depreciation they become disposable. Every one know the
cost of replacing batteries in your old laptop.

Geez, if everyone was as negative about new technologies as you are, we
would still be driving horse and buggies, and forget computers. Still,
they are now getting 100,000 miles out of present battery technology, and
with standardization, and future innovations, battery life will improve
and cost will come down. Remember the cost of those older laptops?

What is the cost to produce the battery packs? What is the cost to
recycle the battery packs? Every time you buy a new car tire you pay a
recycling fee.

Nobody is arguing against the technology, it exists and it works. The
efficiency and cost of the manufacture and disposal of the batteries
need to improve.

What is the difference in energy cost between gasoline and electric
vehicles on a per mile basis? What is the cost of disposing of an
electric car? A gasoline fueled vehicle can be taken to a crushing
machine, inserted, crushed and sold for scrap. What has to be done to a
car with a battery pack?

If you want to talk about the carbon foot print of a gasoline powered
vehicle vs. an electric powered vehicle, with a battery pack, you
shouldn't be surprised who the loser is.

More on Govt designed cars
 

On Sat, 2 May 2009 10:35:55 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



Good reminder.
Our 07 Charger has a few years of warranty left and regular (3x per year)
oil/lube visits, but I'm going to show him the basics...or at least find a
good basic book on routine maintenance.

At least tell him what happened to my kid!

--Vic

More on Govt designed cars
 

Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...



What's really sad to me is that in the late 1970's, GM or Ford or
Chrysler could have decided to allocate enough funds to develop the
sort of batteries we need now to make "electric" cars affordable and
practical. Twenty five years of solid, advancing development would
have made a real difference for us by now.


Research and development of high density batteries for the automotive
market has been going on for at least that long Harry.

The USA only has one battery manufacturer. The EPA has been successful
in chasing all of the others out of the country.

Technical breakthroughs come from many sources other than the automobile
manufacturers, although they often help fund it.

Mass markets reduce the price of technology. The laptop you own today
out classes the super computer of the 1980's.

In the business I was in I visited two private research facilities that
were working on high output density lithium batteries for the automotive
market and promise of electric and hybrid cars. This was in the early
80's. One company was a relatively new start-up, the other an existing
large battery manufacturer.

I remember it well because the clean rooms in which the batteries were
made and assembled had to be kept at 5 percent relative humidity or less
because lithium is so reactive with water or water vapor. After putting
on the "bunny suit" and entering the clean room area, you involuntarily
gasped for a breath, the air was so dry.

The local fire department near my wife's job knows how to handle lithium
fires.

The scope of development is better done within organizations that
specialize in the technology.

Lithium batteries have come a long way, but they are still not really
practical unless we all radically change our driving habits. And they
still have to be charged which requires energy.

Lithium has a heat problem when being discharged. All of these Lion
laptop battery recalls are due to heat problems. Compare their size to
the size that would be in an automobile.

Fuel cell technology is the future.

Not with hydrogen, it costs too much.

More on Govt designed cars
 

"BAR" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:

Fuel cell technology is the future.



Not with hydrogen, it costs too much.




Plenty of hydrogen in water.

It may take a few more years to perfect, but I think it has real promise.
So does the government and the automobile manufacturers (what's left of
them)

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-e.../fuel-cell.htm

Eisboch

More on Govt designed cars
 

On Sat, 02 May 2009 09:58:20 -0400, BAR wrote:


If you want to talk about the carbon foot print of a gasoline powered
vehicle vs. an electric powered vehicle, with a battery pack, you
shouldn't be surprised who the loser is.

Whose talking about a carbon footprint? But there is the little thing
about oil, as in *foreign* oil. IMO, electric cars could aid in once
again making us energy independent.

More on Govt designed cars
 

On Sat, 02 May 2009 08:26:20 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Next day I heard the car stops halfway to Champagne, and the tow truck
driver pulls the dipstick and finds it's out of oil. Engine shot.
Son watches tow truck driver do this and realizes he's been pulling
the trans dipstick to check the oil.
My son, the Engineer.

Trans fluid is red and engine oil is black, and I thought that was
universal knowledge. Evidently not. If I designed it, the molded
plastic handles for the sticks would have a couple of meshed gears on
one and a piston and rod on the other. Not a new concept. I always got
by on obviousness.

Casady

More on Govt designed cars
 

On Sat, 02 May 2009 11:57:02 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Sat, 02 May 2009 08:26:20 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Next day I heard the car stops halfway to Champagne, and the tow truck
driver pulls the dipstick and finds it's out of oil. Engine shot.
Son watches tow truck driver do this and realizes he's been pulling
the trans dipstick to check the oil.
My son, the Engineer.

Trans fluid is red and engine oil is black, and I thought that was
universal knowledge. Evidently not. If I designed it, the molded
plastic handles for the sticks would have a couple of meshed gears on
one and a piston and rod on the other. Not a new concept. I always got
by on obviousness.

I think every car I've seen has the oil stick forward and the trans
stick aft. Even the FWD's. I don't recall ever being confused about
it. Might have let my eyes follow a tube to the crankcase once or
twice.
But there's lots of people who wouldn't even know how to open their
hood.
You just can't take anything for granted (-:

--Vic

More on Govt designed cars
 

On Sat, 2 May 2009 10:35:55 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 2 May 2009 07:51:31 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...

I had a 57 Volvo that had been painted flat black with a brush, and
had a channel iron front bumper. City busses were scared of it,

Casady


Reminds me of another adventure raising kids.

When my daughter was about 12 years old I had an old Chevy "Luv" pickup
truck that we kept in the backyard. Painted it black with a paintbrush
and
used it as a motorized wheelbarrow while clearing some land area. It was
a
wreck, but it ran.

Anyway, the yard was big and I let my daughter drive it around once in a
while figuring it was a good way for her to learn how to drive a manual
transmission. Problem was the engine had a leaky head gasket and the
radiator was always slowly losing water. I told my daughter that before
she used it to make sure she could see water in the radiator.

A few days later she announced that the truck wouldn't start anymore. We
went out to check it out. When I turned the key to start it, the engine
didn't budge. Meanwhile my daughter is yapping away telling me that she
had
checked the water, didn't see any, so she filled it up.

I asked her *where* she put the water. Sure enough, she had removed the
air filter and filled the carburetor to the top.

One Chevy Luv off to the junkyard.

Thata'll teach ya.
One of my sons is an engineer. General Engineer, University of
Illinois. Don't ask me what that is. I never could get it out of
him. But he's doing well with it.
He worked at Chicago Dryer doing summer factory work while in college
and made enough money to buy a used Hyundai.
He was real happy with the car, and that he paid for it himself.
About 6 months later the oil light was going on and we talked about it
on the phone.
He told me the oil level was fine, and I told him either the sender
was bad, the oil pump was bad, or the mains were shot.
I offered to have my mechanic check it out, but as usual he didn't
have the time, what with school and his socializing.
A few days later my daughter came over to visit, driving the son's car
because her car was down.
I walked her to driveway, chatting as she got in the car to leave.
Car sounded ok. Nice looking car. Oil light was going on and off.
Daughter was in a hurry to get the car back so son could take off for
Champagne and school, so I didn't check the car out.
Next day I heard the car stops halfway to Champagne, and the tow truck
driver pulls the dipstick and finds it's out of oil. Engine shot.
Son watches tow truck driver do this and realizes he's been pulling
the trans dipstick to check the oil.
My son, the Engineer.
Damn, did my heart sink when I thought about how I should have checked
that oil when my daughter was there.
I was so sorry for him losing that car for something so stupid.
And a bit sorry for myself in helping him get another car too (-:
But I trusted my son when he said the oil level was fine.
He stills know squat about cars.
Easier to excuse your 12 year old daughter.
We can call that one "cute." (-:

--Vic

Good reminder.
Our 07 Charger has a few years of warranty left and regular (3x per year)
oil/lube visits, but I'm going to show him the basics...or at least find a
good basic book on routine maintenance.

Routine maintainance on a late model car? Our Lincoln needed nothing
but oil changes every 5000 miles and spark plugs at 100 000.. New
glycol every two years. Brakes, tires, wiper blades last 50 000 or
so, but that is not routine maintainance, they are as needed items, no
brainers that announce themselves.
The complicated four cam 32 valve motor developed a leaking valve
guide at 175 000 miles so I put in an overhauled motor. If it hadn't
had a check engine light it probably would have gone at least another
25 000.

Casady

More on Govt designed cars
 

On Sat, 2 May 2009 10:36:30 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Plenty of hydrogen in water.

It may take a few more years to perfect, but I think it has real promise.
So does the

Water is burnt hydrogen. You can burn ten pounds of coal in a
efficient power plant and make a pound of hydrogen from the juice, and
water. It is nuts to make it from oil or natural gas. The hydro is in
use and there are no more good dam sites. In Iowa wind is supplying 5%
of the juice and they make most of the hardware right here. Hydrogen
is more promising than batteries, but what is going to actually
happen, is gasoline made from coal.

Casady

More on Govt designed cars
 

thunder wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2009 09:58:20 -0400, BAR wrote:


If you want to talk about the carbon foot print of a gasoline powered
vehicle vs. an electric powered vehicle, with a battery pack, you
shouldn't be surprised who the loser is.

Whose talking about a carbon footprint? But there is the little thing
about oil, as in *foreign* oil. IMO, electric cars could aid in once
again making us energy independent.

Every time someone says anything about foreign oil I think less of them.
Oil is oil it doesn't matter whether it is sucked out of the ground in
the middle east or off the coast of Florida. What does matter is who
gets the money If you want the USA to reduce its dependence on foreign
oil and keep the money at home then you are in favor of drilling for oil
in our own oil fields now.

We know how to produce energy. What we don't know how to do is to store
energy. How do we store energy from solar panels and wind? How do you
turn on the wind to produce energy on demand? How do you turn on solar
panels in the middle of the night in when demand goes up.

More on Govt designed cars
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 May 2009 10:36:30 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Plenty of hydrogen in water.

It may take a few more years to perfect, but I think it has real promise.
So does the

Water is burnt hydrogen. You can burn ten pounds of coal in a
efficient power plant and make a pound of hydrogen from the juice, and
water. It is nuts to make it from oil or natural gas. The hydro is in
use and there are no more good dam sites. In Iowa wind is supplying 5%
of the juice and they make most of the hardware right here. Hydrogen
is more promising than batteries, but what is going to actually
happen, is gasoline made from coal.

Casady


The hydrogen in water is still hydrogen. If efficient methods to
disassociate it from the oxygen are developed, it can be recovered as fuel.
The secret to success is finding the method.

http://www.lanl.gov/orgs/tt/license/...chnology&id=62

Eisboch

More on Govt designed cars
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...



The hydrogen in water is still hydrogen. If efficient methods to
disassociate it from the oxygen are developed, it can be recovered as
fuel. The secret to success is finding the method.

http://www.lanl.gov/orgs/tt/license/...chnology&id=62

Eisboch


For those interested in such things, here's another more practical
explanation of how hydrogen derived from water can be used, among other
things....

http://hypography.com/forums/science-projects-and-homework/895-new-way-extracting-hydrogen-water-great.html


Eisboch

More on Govt designed cars
 

On Sat, 2 May 2009 15:48:04 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Richard Casady" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 2 May 2009 10:36:30 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Plenty of hydrogen in water.

It may take a few more years to perfect, but I think it has real promise.
So does the

Water is burnt hydrogen. You can burn ten pounds of coal in a
efficient power plant and make a pound of hydrogen from the juice, and
water. It is nuts to make it from oil or natural gas. The hydro is in
use and there are no more good dam sites. In Iowa wind is supplying 5%
of the juice and they make most of the hardware right here. Hydrogen
is more promising than batteries, but what is going to actually
happen, is gasoline made from coal.

Casady


The hydrogen in water is still hydrogen. If efficient methods to
disassociate it from the oxygen are developed, it can be recovered as fuel.
The secret to success is finding the method.

You cannot repeal the law of conservation of energy. And all the
methods for making hydrogen were discovered more than a century ago.
There is no magic. hydrogen is only really good if electricity is
free. Gasoline is about fifteen times as dense as liquid hydrogen, and
that is without allowing for the bulk of the insulation. In compressed
form you can carry a couple of pounds in a 360 cu ft cylinder, such as
the standard size one used for oxygen by welders.

From an energy efficiency standpoint, making hydrogen from water is a
non starter. You can't make coal from carbon dioxide either.

Casady

More on Govt designed cars
 

Richard Casady wrote:
On Sat, 2 May 2009 15:48:04 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 May 2009 10:36:30 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Plenty of hydrogen in water.

It may take a few more years to perfect, but I think it has real promise.
So does the
Water is burnt hydrogen. You can burn ten pounds of coal in a
efficient power plant and make a pound of hydrogen from the juice, and
water. It is nuts to make it from oil or natural gas. The hydro is in
use and there are no more good dam sites. In Iowa wind is supplying 5%
of the juice and they make most of the hardware right here. Hydrogen
is more promising than batteries, but what is going to actually
happen, is gasoline made from coal.

Casady

The hydrogen in water is still hydrogen. If efficient methods to
disassociate it from the oxygen are developed, it can be recovered as fuel.
The secret to success is finding the method.

You cannot repeal the law of conservation of energy. And all the
methods for making hydrogen were discovered more than a century ago.
There is no magic. hydrogen is only really good if electricity is
free. Gasoline is about fifteen times as dense as liquid hydrogen, and
that is without allowing for the bulk of the insulation. In compressed
form you can carry a couple of pounds in a 360 cu ft cylinder, such as
the standard size one used for oxygen by welders.

From an energy efficiency standpoint, making hydrogen from water is a
non starter. You can't make coal from carbon dioxide either.

Casady

But this is a time of change and obama can do anything he wants. Pelosi,
obama and the other democrats can pass laws to change anything, and if
laws will not work they can throw a couple of trillion dollar to make it
happen.