Crawl spaces
 

Don White wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 17, 11:25 am, "mmc" wrote:
What a novel idea:http://www.raisedfloorliving.com/
Like this is something new?
No, this is traditional "Cracker house" construction. My house is
built this way.

Not unusual in areas with high water tables...and gives the termites
something beefy - the posts - on which to chew.

The posts do not contact the ground. At least according to code. Seeing
the damage after Katrina, lots of the lost houses were because of
construction practices. A house on a concrete pad. Not bad, but they did
not bolt the house to the pad. You would see a house pad, and no nails,
no bolts sticking up from the pad. Bad union work?

More likely some shifty 'contractor' hiring illegals at the cheapest
possible wage and taking every shortcut imaginable.




That would be "Bilious Bill's Fly By Night Home Repairs," where every
worker is from the HomeDepot shape-up lot.

In this country, very, very few workers under a union contract are
involved on-site single family house construction. That sort of work
typically is done on a piece-work basis, and most of it these days is
done by semi-skilled foreign workers, who have displaced the
semi-skilled U.S. construction workers.

Crawl spaces
 

On Apr 17, 3:14 pm, "Don White" wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message

...





"HK" wrote in message
om...
Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 17, 11:25 am, "mmc" wrote:
What a novel idea:http://www.raisedfloorliving.com/
Like this is something new?

No, this is traditional "Cracker house" construction. My house is
built this way.

Not unusual in areas with high water tables...and gives the termites
something beefy - the posts - on which to chew.

The posts do not contact the ground. At least according to code. Seeing
the damage after Katrina, lots of the lost houses were because of
construction practices. A house on a concrete pad. Not bad, but they did
not bolt the house to the pad. You would see a house pad, and no nails,
no bolts sticking up from the pad. Bad union work?

More likely some shifty 'contractor' hiring illegals at the cheapest
possible wage and taking every shortcut imaginable.

Traditional cracker houses were built up off the ground for cooling
breezes and because it gave the dogs and chickens somewhere to go when
it rained.
My house was built that way but was later air conditioned so the
cooling effect is gone. The dogs and cats do go under there during
storms. It is on 6" X 6" PT posts about 3' off grade with latticework
around it. Building code was non-existent when it was built. When I
first bought it in 1988, it got to 8 degrees here in Tallahassee and I
had to learn to solder copper pipe on Christmas eve night. There was
no insulation on the pipes.
Our later addition was built with an amazing amount of steel in the
concrete piers for hurricane code with hurricane straps everywhere.
The later carport is a fortress compared to the rest of the house.
My parents house was also built this way but it was enclosed with
block underneath.
My neighbors all have houses on pads and have had trouble with
termites from under the pad, I have had no termite problems. Some
have also had pipes break under the pad, what a pain. I'd rather be
off grade.

Crawl spaces
 

On Apr 17, 3:14 pm, "Don White" wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message

...





"HK" wrote in message
om...
Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 17, 11:25 am, "mmc" wrote:
What a novel idea:http://www.raisedfloorliving.com/
Like this is something new?

No, this is traditional "Cracker house" construction. My house is
built this way.

Not unusual in areas with high water tables...and gives the termites
something beefy - the posts - on which to chew.

The posts do not contact the ground. At least according to code. Seeing
the damage after Katrina, lots of the lost houses were because of
construction practices. A house on a concrete pad. Not bad, but they did
not bolt the house to the pad. You would see a house pad, and no nails,
no bolts sticking up from the pad. Bad union work?

More likely some shifty 'contractor' hiring illegals at the cheapest
possible wage and taking every shortcut imaginable.

That pic is why FL natives dont believe in building on the beach, it
simply isn't permanent.

Crawl spaces
 

On Apr 17, 3:30*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 17, 3:14 pm, "Don White" wrote:





"Calif Bill" wrote in message

...

"HK" wrote in message
om...
Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 17, 11:25 am, "mmc" wrote:
What a novel idea:http://www.raisedfloorliving.com/
Like this is something new?

No, this is traditional "Cracker house" construction. My house is
built this way.

Not unusual in areas with high water tables...and gives the termites
something beefy - the posts - on which to chew.

The posts do not contact the ground. *At least according to code. *Seeing
the damage after Katrina, lots of the lost houses were because of
construction practices. *A house on a concrete pad. *Not bad, but they did
not bolt the house to the pad. *You would see a house pad, and no nails,
no bolts sticking up from the pad. *Bad union work?

More likely some shifty 'contractor' hiring illegals at the cheapest
possible wage and taking every shortcut imaginable.

Traditional cracker houses were built up off the ground for cooling
breezes and because it gave the dogs and chickens somewhere to go when
it rained.
My house was built that way but was later air conditioned so the
cooling effect is gone. *The dogs and cats do go under there during
storms. *It is on 6" X 6" PT posts about 3' off grade with latticework
around it. *Building code was non-existent when it was built. *When I
first bought it in 1988, it got to 8 degrees here in Tallahassee and I
had to learn to solder copper pipe on Christmas eve night. *There was
no insulation on the pipes.
Our later addition was built with an amazing amount of steel in the
concrete piers for hurricane code with hurricane straps everywhere.
The later carport is a fortress compared to the rest of the house.
My parents house was also built this way but it was enclosed with
block underneath.
My neighbors all have houses on pads and have had trouble with
termites from under the pad, I have had no termite problems. *Some
have also had pipes break under the pad, what a pain. *I'd rather be
off grade.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Slabs on grade are okay but they put both waste and fresh water
plumbing in the slab in a lot of places. Plumbing problem? Get out the
jackhammer!

Crawl spaces
 

On Apr 17, 3:08*pm, HK wrote:

I spent close to a month in south Florida after Andrew preparing a
booklet for a client on how various structures handled the storm and its
aftermath. Hope I still have a few copies of it somewhere.

Gee, I do too! I'd love to see a copy, liar!

It was pretty
decent, with lots of photos, a few drawings, explanations, all reviewed
by the proper sort of engineers. Codes and lack of code enforcement were
big issues in south Florida then.

No it wasn't "codes and lack of code enforcement". There were codes in
place. They were enforced. But things are learned by such events and
the subsequent testing. THEN the codes are revised.

I'll be waiting to see your thesis. Please, don't forget to list the
engineers that reviewed it. Did they stamp it? How was their review
done?

Crawl spaces
 

On Apr 17, 2:08*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:39:44 -0400, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:08:56 -0400, HK wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 17, 11:25 am, "mmc" wrote:
What a novel idea:http://www.raisedfloorliving.com/
Like this is something new?
No, this is traditional "Cracker house" construction. My house is
built this way.

Not unusual in areas with high water tables...and gives the termites
something beefy - the posts - on which to chew.

These houses usually use 2.5 CCA posts and there isn't much that can
eat them. I still have some cutoffs from a house built in 1980 on Pine
Island and I use one for a bunk for my jon boat on my dock. It still
looks brand new. I have couple more that I keep next to the garage (in
the grass) for blocking up my trailer when I am working on the boat.
Same thing, still look new.

There were a few in Jax where the posts either were rotted out or were
eaten. I have no idea how the posts were treated. Most of the raised
floor houses I saw there, though, were on short concrete piers.

A lot of construction in Florida was done before they really had an
effective building code. People would come down here and do things
like they did up north with disastrous results. Just simple things
like "where does the vapor barrier go?" can make for bad situations.
The whole wind code issue is virtually unknown once you get much north
of the Florida line. That is why some little dust devil gets called a
tornado up there in Md because *it rips off a bunch of shingles and
siding. We need engineered, stamped plans to build a shed these days.
You do see the difference after a storm though. Old, pre-code houses
still get blown up but the newer ones come out unscathed. One of my
best demonstrations is the Gilchrist house in Texas. That was built to
the same 150 MPH code *Florida requires south of Miami.
It speaks for itself.http://gfretwell.com/electrical/art....ouse.irpt.jpg- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's not just south of Miami. There's lots of coastal areas that are
in the 150 range. BUT, an engineer can still interpolate.

Crawl spaces
 

On Apr 17, 3:51*pm, wrote:
On Apr 17, 2:08*pm, wrote:



On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:39:44 -0400, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:08:56 -0400, HK wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 17, 11:25 am, "mmc" wrote:
What a novel idea:http://www.raisedfloorliving.com/
Like this is something new?
No, this is traditional "Cracker house" construction. My house is
built this way.

Not unusual in areas with high water tables...and gives the termites
something beefy - the posts - on which to chew.

These houses usually use 2.5 CCA posts and there isn't much that can
eat them. I still have some cutoffs from a house built in 1980 on Pine
Island and I use one for a bunk for my jon boat on my dock. It still
looks brand new. I have couple more that I keep next to the garage (in
the grass) for blocking up my trailer when I am working on the boat.
Same thing, still look new.

There were a few in Jax where the posts either were rotted out or were
eaten. I have no idea how the posts were treated. Most of the raised
floor houses I saw there, though, were on short concrete piers.

A lot of construction in Florida was done before they really had an
effective building code. People would come down here and do things
like they did up north with disastrous results. Just simple things
like "where does the vapor barrier go?" can make for bad situations.
The whole wind code issue is virtually unknown once you get much north
of the Florida line. That is why some little dust devil gets called a
tornado up there in Md because *it rips off a bunch of shingles and
siding. We need engineered, stamped plans to build a shed these days.
You do see the difference after a storm though. Old, pre-code houses
still get blown up but the newer ones come out unscathed. One of my
best demonstrations is the Gilchrist house in Texas. That was built to
the same 150 MPH code *Florida requires south of Miami.
It speaks for itself.http://gfretwell.com/electrical/art.....irpt.jpg-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's not just south of Miami. There's lots of coastal areas that are
in the 150 range. BUT, an engineer can still interpolate.

I heard from people who did re-roofing after Andrew that many of those
roofs were done with a nail gun and that there wouild be lines of
nails thru plywood where they completely missed the board underneath
so nothing was holding it on.

Crawl spaces
 

Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 17, 3:51 pm, wrote:
On Apr 17, 2:08 pm, wrote:



On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:39:44 -0400, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:08:56 -0400, HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 17, 11:25 am, "mmc" wrote:
What a novel idea:http://www.raisedfloorliving.com/
Like this is something new?
No, this is traditional "Cracker house" construction. My house is
built this way.
Not unusual in areas with high water tables...and gives the termites
something beefy - the posts - on which to chew.
These houses usually use 2.5 CCA posts and there isn't much that can
eat them. I still have some cutoffs from a house built in 1980 on Pine
Island and I use one for a bunk for my jon boat on my dock. It still
looks brand new. I have couple more that I keep next to the garage (in
the grass) for blocking up my trailer when I am working on the boat.
Same thing, still look new.
There were a few in Jax where the posts either were rotted out or were
eaten. I have no idea how the posts were treated. Most of the raised
floor houses I saw there, though, were on short concrete piers.
A lot of construction in Florida was done before they really had an
effective building code. People would come down here and do things
like they did up north with disastrous results. Just simple things
like "where does the vapor barrier go?" can make for bad situations.
The whole wind code issue is virtually unknown once you get much north
of the Florida line. That is why some little dust devil gets called a
tornado up there in Md because it rips off a bunch of shingles and
siding. We need engineered, stamped plans to build a shed these days.
You do see the difference after a storm though. Old, pre-code houses
still get blown up but the newer ones come out unscathed. One of my
best demonstrations is the Gilchrist house in Texas. That was built to
the same 150 MPH code Florida requires south of Miami.
It speaks for itself.http://gfretwell.com/electrical/art.....irpt.jpg-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
It's not just south of Miami. There's lots of coastal areas that are
in the 150 range. BUT, an engineer can still interpolate.

I heard from people who did re-roofing after Andrew that many of those
roofs were done with a nail gun and that there wouild be lines of
nails thru plywood where they completely missed the board underneath
so nothing was holding it on.

That's correct. And many of the roof lumber was not tied to the top
plates, and the bottom plates were not tied to the foundation. Lousy
inspectors were a big part of the problem.

Crawl spaces
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 17, 11:25 am, "mmc" wrote:
What a novel idea:http://www.raisedfloorliving.com/
Like this is something new?

No, this is traditional "Cracker house" construction. My house is
built this way.


Not unusual in areas with high water tables...and gives the termites
something beefy - the posts - on which to chew.


The posts do not contact the ground. At least according to code. Seeing
the damage after Katrina, lots of the lost houses were because of
construction practices. A house on a concrete pad. Not bad, but they
did not bolt the house to the pad. You would see a house pad, and no
nails, no bolts sticking up from the pad. Bad union work?

More likely some shifty 'contractor' hiring illegals at the cheapest
possible wage and taking every shortcut imaginable.


Oh, you are showing your prejudice now. Most of these homes were built way
before Illegals were doing construction. They were Union Built.

Crawl spaces
 

Don White wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 17, 11:25 am, "mmc" wrote:
What a novel idea:http://www.raisedfloorliving.com/
Like this is something new?
No, this is traditional "Cracker house" construction. My house is
built this way.

Not unusual in areas with high water tables...and gives the termites
something beefy - the posts - on which to chew.

The posts do not contact the ground. At least according to code. Seeing
the damage after Katrina, lots of the lost houses were because of
construction practices. A house on a concrete pad. Not bad, but they did
not bolt the house to the pad. You would see a house pad, and no nails,
no bolts sticking up from the pad. Bad union work?

More likely some shifty 'contractor' hiring illegals at the cheapest
possible wage and taking every shortcut imaginable.



Sure, dummy. And the building inspectors are getting paid off, too, right?