Bad fuel
 

I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

Bad fuel
 

Frogwatch wrote:
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first time
in the spring.


--
Palin & Bachmann in 2012 -
All Stupidity All the Time

Bad fuel
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Frogwatch wrote:
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first time
in the spring.




I had my first experience with gas going bad this past winter. The JD
Gator I use to plow the driveway had been filled at the beginning of last
summer (5 gals) but not used much all summer.
I usually add Stabil when I know an engine won't be used for a while but
this time I didn't.

During the winter, with the regular snowstorms, I noticed it was starting to
run poorly. Often it would only run on one cylinder (of 2) until it warmed
up. It was losing power and starting to stall often after a particularly
heavy pass of plowing. The exhaust also had a foul odor. I figured it was
time to have the engine serviced and tuned up.

Then we had yet another storm and since the fuel tank was almost empty, I
filled it up with fresh gas. Within 5 minutes it was running like new,
smooth idling and back to original power. All it took was some fresh gas.

Eisboch

Bad fuel
 

HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first time
in the spring.


What's your secret to successful gas storage?

Bad fuel
 

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:39:05 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

Do I get a prize for diagnosing it correctly?

Bad fuel
 

Jim22208 wrote:
HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first
time in the spring.


What's your secret to successful gas storage?

He gets special gas because he's a special guy!

Bad fuel
 

Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Frogwatch wrote:
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first
time in the spring.




I had my first experience with gas going bad this past winter. The JD
Gator I use to plow the driveway had been filled at the beginning of
last summer (5 gals) but not used much all summer.
I usually add Stabil when I know an engine won't be used for a while but
this time I didn't.


I always dump some Stabil in the gas engine tanks...outboards, tractor,
chainsaw, et cetera. Actually, the dealer puts the Stabil in the
outboard fuel tank.


--
Palin & Bachmann in 2012 -
All Stupidity All the Time

Bad fuel
 

On Apr 1, 8:08 pm, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
om...
Frogwatch wrote:
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first
time in the spring.

I had my first experience with gas going bad this past winter. The JD
Gator I use to plow the driveway had been filled at the beginning of
last summer (5 gals) but not used much all summer.
I usually add Stabil when I know an engine won't be used for a while but
this time I didn't.

I always dump some Stabil in the gas engine tanks...outboards, tractor,
chainsaw, et cetera. Actually, the dealer puts the Stabil in the
outboard fuel tank.

--
Palin & Bachmann in 2012 -
All Stupidity All the Time

I gotta admit to a slight suspicion that there could be more to this.

Bad fuel
 

Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 1, 8:08 pm, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Frogwatch wrote:
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.
I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first
time in the spring.
I had my first experience with gas going bad this past winter. The JD
Gator I use to plow the driveway had been filled at the beginning of
last summer (5 gals) but not used much all summer.
I usually add Stabil when I know an engine won't be used for a while but
this time I didn't.
I always dump some Stabil in the gas engine tanks...outboards, tractor,
chainsaw, et cetera. Actually, the dealer puts the Stabil in the
outboard fuel tank.

--
Palin & Bachmann in 2012 -
All Stupidity All the Time

I gotta admit to a slight suspicion that there could be more to this.

All the pumps I've seen here in Florida are labeled up to 10% ethanol.
I'd put stabil in every tank of boat fuel and make sure you have a water
separator fuel filter mounted in the boat.

Bad fuel
 

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

I just bought a used boat. It had a small 1.2hp trolling motor. There was
plastic gas compartment that would hold about two cups of gas. I
disassembled nearly the whole engine and cleaned and fixed. I poured the
gas into a shallow container to use as parts wash. It smelled strongly like
a can of paint varnish. The project took a couple of evenings, and the
smell just hung in the shop so bad I finally poured the gas into a sealed
can. My atvs get "bad gas" from time to time from gas setting.

It's just good to use gas up and not let it sit around for any length of
time. Stabil helps, but it changes over time.

Steve

Bad fuel
 

I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first time
in the spring.

Me, too. It's just that it smells like crap, and the engine barely runs.
But yes, it starts and runs. You're right.

Steve

Bad fuel
 

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:09:57 -0400, Jim22208
wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 1, 8:08 pm, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Frogwatch wrote:
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.
I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first
time in the spring.
I had my first experience with gas going bad this past winter. The JD
Gator I use to plow the driveway had been filled at the beginning of
last summer (5 gals) but not used much all summer.
I usually add Stabil when I know an engine won't be used for a while but
this time I didn't.
I always dump some Stabil in the gas engine tanks...outboards, tractor,
chainsaw, et cetera. Actually, the dealer puts the Stabil in the
outboard fuel tank.

--
Palin & Bachmann in 2012 -
All Stupidity All the Time

I gotta admit to a slight suspicion that there could be more to this.

All the pumps I've seen here in Florida are labeled up to 10% ethanol.
I'd put stabil in every tank of boat fuel and make sure you have a water
separator fuel filter mounted in the boat.

Sta-bil now has a dark colored "marine version" that is about double
the strength of the red stuff. Supposed to help somewhat with ethanol
problems, too. I doubt there is a way to completely avoid phase
separation if the gas sits more than 4 or 5 months, though.

Bad fuel
 

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:39:05 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

In Iowa, where they make the ethanol, every vendor offers three grades
of gas, one of which has ethanol. As for keeping fuel more than two
weeks, that is just insane. How long do you think it is in the
pipeline before it sits around the tank farm? The local small town
convenience store sells 100 octane gas during the racing season.
Very expensive it is, low lead 100 avgas is much cheaper.

Casady

Bad fuel
 

On Apr 1, 8:08*pm, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
om...
Frogwatch wrote:
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. *Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. *He verified spark and fuel
delivery. *He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. *Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. *Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first
time in the spring.

I had my first experience with gas going bad this past winter. *The *JD
Gator I use to plow the driveway had been filled at the beginning of
last summer (5 gals) *but not used much all summer.
I usually add Stabil when I know an engine won't be used for a while but
this time I didn't.

I always dump some Stabil in the gas engine tanks...outboards, tractor,
chainsaw, et cetera. Actually, the dealer puts the Stabil in the
outboard fuel tank.

--
Palin & Bachmann in 2012 -
All Stupidity All the Time- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why the dealer? Didn't you once claim to have a mechanical engineering
degree?

Bad fuel
 

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:36:01 -0400, wrote:

Storing gasoline above ground in a small tank (car, lawnmower,
outboard motor tank, etc) greatly increases the rate at which
moisture is absorbed. The underground tanks maintain a pretty constant
temperature.

Moisture has no particular effect on the formation of gum, which is
the issue under discussion.

Casady

Bad fuel
 

Bad fuel
 

Bad fuel
 

On Apr 3, 10:53*am, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:14:37 -0400, Jim22208
wrote:





wrote:
On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:22:26 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:36:01 -0400, wrote:

Storing gasoline above ground in a small tank (car, lawnmower,
outboard motor tank, etc) *greatly increases the rate at which
moisture is absorbed. The underground tanks maintain a pretty constant
temperature.
Moisture has no particular effect on the formation of gum, which is
the issue under discussion.

Casady

The subject, stated on the subject line, *is bad fuel. When talking
about problems with storing gas for long periods, water is a bigger
problem than formation of gum. You can retard or prevent the foramtion
of gum. You can't do much about phase separation of water in fuel.

Ah, but there is something tou can do. Look up a product called
Water-Zorb. It really works like magic.

That's just another *brand name for Dri-Gas. It's basically just
alcohol, like the alcohol that caused the problem. Adding more alcohol
may get you going in the short term, but will also likely shorten the
life of your engine.

There is no treatment you can add to gasoline that will eliminate
phase separation.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are products, however, that will protect against phase
separation happening in the first place.

Bad fuel
 

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:37:39 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:22:26 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:36:01 -0400, wrote:

Storing gasoline above ground in a small tank (car, lawnmower,
outboard motor tank, etc) greatly increases the rate at which
moisture is absorbed. The underground tanks maintain a pretty constant
temperature.

Moisture has no particular effect on the formation of gum, which is
the issue under discussion.

Casady

The subject, stated on the subject line, is bad fuel. When talking
about problems with storing gas for long periods, water is a bigger
problem than formation of gum. You can retard or prevent the foramtion
of gum. You can't do much about phase separation of water in fuel.

Good fuel that happens to be in the same container as water is still
good fuel, you can start a new thread about separating water from fuel
if you like, but good fuel floating on water is still good fuel. This
is normally found in all tankers and most storage tanks. They strain
out the dead shrimp before it gets to you tank.

As for preventing gum, they mostly do all that needs doing at the
refinery. We have been leaving gas over the winter in the same
runabout for fifty years without a trace of gum. No problems with
water either. The only gum I have ever seen was in a lawn mower from a
thrift shop, and for all I know the varnish and gas were thirty years
old. The mower was that old.

You might not want drain valves for gasoline possibly dripping into
the bilge, but Diesel tanks should have quick drains, same as all the
light airplanes. [I presume heavy planes have them as well.]

The references to phase separation that I have found refer to water
washing the ethanol from fuel. When you then remove the water layer,
in numerous ways the boating community seems not to use,
the gasoline will be a point or so lower in octane since ethanol rates
100+ octane, [as do methanol, propane, toluene, acetone, 2,2,5
trimethyl pentane]. That last I threw in because it is the reference
fuel for the octane scale.

Casady

Bad fuel
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:37:39 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:22:26 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:36:01 -0400, wrote:

Storing gasoline above ground in a small tank (car, lawnmower,
outboard motor tank, etc) greatly increases the rate at which
moisture is absorbed. The underground tanks maintain a pretty constant
temperature.

Moisture has no particular effect on the formation of gum, which is
the issue under discussion.

Casady

The subject, stated on the subject line, is bad fuel. When talking
about problems with storing gas for long periods, water is a bigger
problem than formation of gum. You can retard or prevent the foramtion
of gum. You can't do much about phase separation of water in fuel.

Good fuel that happens to be in the same container as water is still
good fuel, you can start a new thread about separating water from fuel
if you like, but good fuel floating on water is still good fuel. This
is normally found in all tankers and most storage tanks. They strain
out the dead shrimp before it gets to you tank.

As for preventing gum, they mostly do all that needs doing at the
refinery. We have been leaving gas over the winter in the same
runabout for fifty years without a trace of gum. No problems with
water either. The only gum I have ever seen was in a lawn mower from a
thrift shop, and for all I know the varnish and gas were thirty years
old. The mower was that old.

You might not want drain valves for gasoline possibly dripping into
the bilge, but Diesel tanks should have quick drains, same as all the
light airplanes. [I presume heavy planes have them as well.]

The references to phase separation that I have found refer to water
washing the ethanol from fuel. When you then remove the water layer,
in numerous ways the boating community seems not to use,
the gasoline will be a point or so lower in octane since ethanol rates
100+ octane, [as do methanol, propane, toluene, acetone, 2,2,5
trimethyl pentane]. That last I threw in because it is the reference
fuel for the octane scale.

Casady

My BIL took in an 8hp shredder to have it fixed, as it had sat for a couple
of years. The mechanic said that "the carburetor was so gummed up, he had
to replace it." And he did kindly with a USED one, which he charged $125
for including labor. I believe I could have soaked and brushed it into
usability.

Steve

Bad fuel
 

On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 09:49:31 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:

My BIL took in an 8hp shredder to have it fixed, as it had sat for a couple
of years. The mechanic said that "the carburetor was so gummed up, he had
to replace it." And he did kindly with a USED one, which he charged $125
for including labor. I believe I could have soaked and brushed it into
usability.

Replacing the carburetor is common practice in my experience.
Cleaning an old one is labor intensive and there is some risk that it
may take more than one cleaning/rebuilding to get it right. That's OK
if you are doing the work yourself and have lots of spare time but the
guys making a living at it like to turn the work around quickly and
get it right the first time.

Bad fuel
 

On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:25:03 -0500, wrote:

The EPA may have also banned the chemical they used in the carb "hot
tank". Back in the olden days a few hours in a hot tank would make
them look like brand new and all the varnish, gum or whatever was
gone. Blow it out with a little shop air, put a "kit" in it and you
were good to go.

The hot tank I know about is lye and is used by engine rebuilders to
soak the engine blocks and other parts. It will dissolve many non
ferrous metals, especially aluminum. I use the same stuff to dissolve
aluminum to make hydrogen for the UFO balloons. The stuff used for
carbs is similar to many paint removers, except it is not a gel.
Smells similar. Maybe methylene chloride, but I don't really know.
Used at room temperature. Some evil ****, whatever it is.

Casady

Bad fuel
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:25:03 -0500, wrote:

The EPA may have also banned the chemical they used in the carb "hot
tank". Back in the olden days a few hours in a hot tank would make
them look like brand new and all the varnish, gum or whatever was
gone. Blow it out with a little shop air, put a "kit" in it and you
were good to go.

The hot tank I know about is lye and is used by engine rebuilders to
soak the engine blocks and other parts. It will dissolve many non
ferrous metals, especially aluminum. I use the same stuff to dissolve
aluminum to make hydrogen for the UFO balloons. The stuff used for
carbs is similar to many paint removers, except it is not a gel.
Smells similar. Maybe methylene chloride, but I don't really know.
Used at room temperature. Some evil ****, whatever it is.

Casady


UFO balloons?
Do you have a secret hobby?

Eisboch

Bad fuel
 

On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 09:04:54 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:



UFO balloons?
Do you have a secret hobby?

You put the stuff in dry cleaning bags. About 1.2 oz of lift per cubic
foot. A one cell mag lite bulb, like the keychains size uses. Looks
like a grain of wheat with two wires sticking out. AAA Cell.three
inches of very light wire. It will look like a satellite, in the
unlikely event anyone notices.

Casady

Bad fuel
 

Richard Casady wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 09:04:54 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


UFO balloons?
Do you have a secret hobby?

You put the stuff in dry cleaning bags. About 1.2 oz of lift per cubic
foot. A one cell mag lite bulb, like the keychains size uses. Looks
like a grain of wheat with two wires sticking out. AAA Cell.three
inches of very light wire. It will look like a satellite, in the
unlikely event anyone notices.

Eisboch has a new hobby.