Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

At the end of March, I will be taking my 20' Tolman to the Keys for a
few days. Mostly this is because we will also visit the in-laws in Ft
Lauderdale and I insisted we go to the Keys too.
So, what to do and see? The Tolman is not a blue water boat and I do
not have enough experience to try to take her all the way to Dry
Tortugas (68 miles west of key West) although the Marquesas may be
reasonable (20 miles west of key West and near several other
islands). I'll prob take the kids snorkelling at Loue Key and others
but I keep putting off getting prescription goggles so I cannot see
under water. Can I rent a prescription mask to get some correction?
I once rented a prescription mask for a guided snorkel trip but the
rental was from the dive business.
I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 17, 12:34 pm, Frogwatch wrote:
At the end of March, I will be taking my 20' Tolman to the Keys for a
few days. Mostly this is because we will also visit the in-laws in Ft
Lauderdale and I insisted we go to the Keys too.
So, what to do and see? The Tolman is not a blue water boat and I do
not have enough experience to try to take her all the way to Dry
Tortugas (68 miles west of key West) although the Marquesas may be
reasonable (20 miles west of key West and near several other
islands). I'll prob take the kids snorkelling at Loue Key and others
but I keep putting off getting prescription goggles so I cannot see
under water. Can I rent a prescription mask to get some correction?
I once rented a prescription mask for a guided snorkel trip but the
rental was from the dive business.
I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

Googled some dive shopps in the keys, they do rent prescription masks.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

At the end of March, I will be taking my 20' Tolman to the Keys for a
few days. Mostly this is because we will also visit the in-laws in Ft
Lauderdale and I insisted we go to the Keys too.
So, what to do and see? The Tolman is not a blue water boat and I do
not have enough experience to try to take her all the way to Dry
Tortugas (68 miles west of key West) although the Marquesas may be
reasonable (20 miles west of key West and near several other
islands). I'll prob take the kids snorkelling at Loue Key and others
but I keep putting off getting prescription goggles so I cannot see
under water. Can I rent a prescription mask to get some correction?
I once rented a prescription mask for a guided snorkel trip but the
rental was from the dive business.
I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

Are you looking for suggestions for the cruise south, or for things to
do in the Keys? Either way, there are lots of things to do but
you'll have to prioritize based on how much time you've got.

At the very least you should get Claiborne Young's "Cruising Guide to
Western Florida" and the "Southern Waterway Guide".

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Cruising-Guide-Western-Florida-Seventh&x=14&y=22

The best way to get to the Dry Tortugas is to take the daily dive boat
tour from Key West. The Marquesas are doable on the right day but the
charts are worthless when you get there. Take a look with Google
Earth first.

Some of the best small boat cruising in Florida is in the vicinity of
Pine Island Sound: Sanibel, Captiva, Cayo Costa, Cabbage Key, Boca
Grande, Caloosahatchie River, etc. Further south you've got Fort
Myers Beach, Estero Bay, Estero River, Naples, Marco Island,
Everglades City, Little Shark River, Wilderness Waterway, etc. It
would take over a month to do it all and you still wouldn't have
arrived at the Keys yet.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 17, 3:53 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
At the end of March, I will be taking my 20' Tolman to the Keys for a
few days. Mostly this is because we will also visit the in-laws in Ft
Lauderdale and I insisted we go to the Keys too.
So, what to do and see? The Tolman is not a blue water boat and I do
not have enough experience to try to take her all the way to Dry
Tortugas (68 miles west of key West) although the Marquesas may be
reasonable (20 miles west of key West and near several other
islands). I'll prob take the kids snorkelling at Loue Key and others
but I keep putting off getting prescription goggles so I cannot see
under water. Can I rent a prescription mask to get some correction?
I once rented a prescription mask for a guided snorkel trip but the
rental was from the dive business.
I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

Are you looking for suggestions for the cruise south, or for things to
do in the Keys? Either way, there are lots of things to do but
you'll have to prioritize based on how much time you've got.

At the very least you should get Claiborne Young's "Cruising Guide to
Western Florida" and the "Southern Waterway Guide".

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-key...

The best way to get to the Dry Tortugas is to take the daily dive boat
tour from Key West. The Marquesas are doable on the right day but the
charts are worthless when you get there. Take a look with Google
Earth first.

Some of the best small boat cruising in Florida is in the vicinity of
Pine Island Sound: Sanibel, Captiva, Cayo Costa, Cabbage Key, Boca
Grande, Caloosahatchie River, etc. Further south you've got Fort
Myers Beach, Estero Bay, Estero River, Naples, Marco Island,
Everglades City, Little Shark River, Wilderness Waterway, etc. It
would take over a month to do it all and you still wouldn't have
arrived at the Keys yet.

Thanx, however, I am trailering her to the Keys. I do have the
cruising guide too.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:59:32 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Thanx, however, I am trailering her to the Keys. I do have the
cruising guide too.

OK, so it's just the Keys. There are probably people over on
"rec.boats.cruising" that know more about the Keys than I do but we
make the trip every year and have learned a few things along the way.
Some of the best small boat opportunities are up in the so called back
country north of the US 1 highway. There is good fishing up there,
mostly flat water and interesting scenery among the smaller islands.
One of the best spots I've found is Niles Channel east of Summerland
Key. A little further west is Kemp Channel east of Cudjoe Key.
Both of these channels take you all the way north to the Gulf and are
very protected and scenic. Navigation marks are few and far between
but the water is so clear that you can mostly eyeball it if you have
the chart, a depth sounder, good overhead sunlight and polarized sun
glasses. If you see white PVC pipes in the water they are usually
marking a shoal.

The best diving is south of Hawk Channel near Key Largo. This is
mostly big boat country on all but the calmest days. Your best bet
is to take one of the commercial dive boats out of John Pennekamp
Park.

http://www.pennekamppark.com/

There is a very cool waterfront restaurant called Snapper's near Key
Largo.

http://www.snapperskeylargo.com/

You can go there by boat and tie up at their dock if you choose but
the channel is shallow and difficult to find without local knowledge.
We took our dinghy in there by following some folks that we'd met
earlier in the day.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Like this one?

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4503/cave.jpg

:-)

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 18, 11:19 am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Richard:
Are you a caver? Do you go to the TAG party in October? If so, we
should meet there.
Am a long time caver. Now my kids are cavers and my 12 yr old
daughter pesters me every day about "When can we go caving again".
She looks over every bit of land we go near trying to decide if it is
"cavish". My 23 yr old daughter has been going to TAG and to local
caver meetings for a couple of years too.
My days of "hard core" caving are past but I still do easier trips.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:19:38 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Mar 18, 11:19 am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Richard:
Are you a caver? Do you go to the TAG party in October? If so, we
should meet there.
Am a long time caver. Now my kids are cavers and my 12 yr old
daughter pesters me every day about "When can we go caving again".
She looks over every bit of land we go near trying to decide if it is
"cavish". My 23 yr old daughter has been going to TAG and to local
caver meetings for a couple of years too.
My days of "hard core" caving are past but I still do easier trips.

Not a caver, but I have been far enough into one, on a 100 degree day,
to really really enjoy the 55 F. This was before factory air in cars.
There was a limestone formation that was almost pure Crinoid stem
fragments. They sold sawn blocks of it for bookends.

I read about three brothers from Iowa in a magazine. I guess caves are
mostly flooded in Florida, but, in any case, the three of them swam
into a cave until they had used more than half their air. They had a
camera and were taking pictures after it was already too late to make
it to the entrance. Their first cave dive. Any fool can figure air is
like air combat fuel. 1/4 to get there, 1/4 to party, 1/4, to get
home. That leaves 1/4 for contingencies. Something like that.

I saw in the paper, I think it was, that some kid had found his very
own narrow place in a cave, and gotten wedged. They were using power
tools to get him out. The one thing the kid did right was to be in a
group.

There is a museum in Chicago that has a coal mine underneath. You just
take an elevator, same as any shaft mine. It isn't a cave, but there
is lots of rock over your head. Museum of Science and Industry. The
place with the Stuka and the U-boat.

Casady

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

Richard Casady wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:19:38 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Mar 18, 11:19 am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:
I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. Suggestions?
If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.
Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.
Richard:
Are you a caver? Do you go to the TAG party in October? If so, we
should meet there.
Am a long time caver. Now my kids are cavers and my 12 yr old
daughter pesters me every day about "When can we go caving again".
She looks over every bit of land we go near trying to decide if it is
"cavish". My 23 yr old daughter has been going to TAG and to local
caver meetings for a couple of years too.
My days of "hard core" caving are past but I still do easier trips.

Not a caver, but I have been far enough into one, on a 100 degree day,
to really really enjoy the 55 F. This was before factory air in cars.
There was a limestone formation that was almost pure Crinoid stem
fragments. They sold sawn blocks of it for bookends.

I read about three brothers from Iowa in a magazine. I guess caves are
mostly flooded in Florida, but, in any case, the three of them swam
into a cave until they had used more than half their air. They had a
camera and were taking pictures after it was already too late to make
it to the entrance. Their first cave dive. Any fool can figure air is
like air combat fuel. 1/4 to get there, 1/4 to party, 1/4, to get
home. That leaves 1/4 for contingencies. Something like that.

I saw in the paper, I think it was, that some kid had found his very
own narrow place in a cave, and gotten wedged. They were using power
tools to get him out. The one thing the kid did right was to be in a
group.

There is a museum in Chicago that has a coal mine underneath. You just
take an elevator, same as any shaft mine. It isn't a cave, but there
is lots of rock over your head. Museum of Science and Industry. The
place with the Stuka and the U-boat.

Casady



I went into a couple of coal mines when I worked for The AP. It was
damned scary being down under all that rock. I did not get the same
feelings of fear in the natural caves tourists like me visit near the
Shenandoah River.


--
The morality police - the bloviating gas bags of the religious right -
have fallen lower than the stock market. It has truly been an amazing
(and amusing) thing to watch these so-called "spokesmen of Christ"
defending their morally indefensible positions these days. Finally -
they're going away. It seems an answer to a prayer. Thank you, Lord.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 18, 11:19*am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. *Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. *Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for awhile, eh?

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 20, 2:04 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:19 am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for awhile, eh?

???

I consider cave diving an elaborate form of suicide although I can
sure understand the desire to do it. Had a good friend who died cave
diving, he was 280' down breathing what was an experimental mix at
that time (1985) but is currently known as trinox. His suit inflated
carrying him very quickly to the top of a dome over 150' high. When
they got him back down, he was acting strangely and would not swim
through the serious constriction. They waited as long as they could
and then went for more air. When they got back, he was dead of
course. Autopsy later revealed brain embolism due to the rapid
ascent.
We actually do have dry caves in FL. There are large dry caves nearby
in South Georgia too.
Many people think thye are claustrophobic but I have never seen it in
a cave even in novices. Being a caver, I have no problem crawling
into my sailboat engine compartment and actually crawling under the
engine.
One thing caving has in common with sailing is the type of rope used.
Sailors want no stretch halyards and cavers want no stretch ropes.
When you are on the end of a 600' rope, stretchy bouncy rope will make
you sick. When I was really into vertical caving, climbing my halyard
was no biggie but I am now afraid of heights.
A few times I have been able to combine caving and boating by canoeing
into a cave entrance. A few caves here in Fl can only be reached from
canoe or kayak. My dream is to sail to that river in Guatemala that
has huge limestone cliffs where sailors use as a hurricane hole and
explore the caves in said cliffs.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 20, 2:04*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:19*am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. *Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. *Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for awhile, eh?

???- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Newsgroups: alt.tv.american-idol
From:
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: Caroline Kennedy Collapses
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:01:51 -0400, Bob Rudd
wrote:




- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:33:23 -0700, Bigolhomo wrote:
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:54:20 -0400, wrote:
This wasn't a hard news story, and clearly they fabricated the whole
thing. I'm quite sure that the Kennedy's didn't invite the press in
for this event. The Enquirer may have reported what happened
completely accurately, but it was still without benefit of any
witnesses. They were guessing, and reporting their guess as facts.
You obviously have no idea how the tabloids work. Of course there was
no Enquirer reporter in the house at the time. But there might have
been a housekeeper, a gardener, a doctor, a driver, a personal
trainer, a pizza delivery boy, a cable guy, etc. who did happen to be
there and witness it and was either approached by, or called the
Enquirer to sell the information.
You obviously have no idea about how THAT tabloid operates. They don't
need to pay anybody for that kind of story. They just create it out of
nothing. It was a fairy tale. As a fairy yourself, you should have
been able to spot that.
I doubt seriously that BOH will object to your calling him a fairy but I
will as I think its a derogatory term that has no place among us as
friends, acquaintances and even when we're enemies.


Oh, brother! Lighten up, Bob. Really.


BOH is my friend, same as greg and most all of the gay folks in the ng
I'd be happy to have them as my next door neighbor and would enjoy going
out to dinner etc. with them (including Nathan, who cannot stand me).


Proving what, exactly? I have marched in gay pride demonstrations. So
what?


Salty, I do have an idea how The Enquirer operates.


Yes, I figured that out.


It's not how it
operated 20 years ago. Most of the time, they get to the smoke and
fire, but in ways that a traditional newspaper would not do, such as
with the checkbook or just seeking out disgruntled employees who will
tell what they know to get even, so to speak.


Like all good businesses, they never spend money if they don't have
to. If they can fill the paper without doing so, you can be sure that
they will every time.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:50:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Mar 20, 2:04*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:19*am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. *Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. *Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for awhile, eh?

???- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Newsgroups: alt.tv.american-idol
From:
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: Caroline Kennedy Collapses
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:01:51 -0400, Bob Rudd
wrote:


Pretty pathetic following me around, but I guess I'm pretty important
to you!

Thanks for the adoration.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 21, 3:06*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:50:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 20, 2:04*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:19*am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. *Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. *Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for awhile, eh?

???- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Newsgroups: alt.tv.american-idol
From:
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: Caroline Kennedy Collapses
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:01:51 -0400, Bob Rudd
wrote:

Pretty pathetic following me around, but I guess I'm pretty important
to you!

Thanks for the adoration.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

pssst.....Hey, dummy, don't flatter yourself. I didn't follow you
anywhere. Someone else posted that right here in rec.boats. Too stupid
to figure that out?

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Mar 21, 3:06*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:50:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 20, 2:04*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:19*am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. *Mostly, I like to
explore cool places. *Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for awhile, eh?

???- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Newsgroups: alt.tv.american-idol
From:
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: Caroline Kennedy Collapses
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:01:51 -0400, Bob Rudd
wrote:

Pretty pathetic following me around, but I guess I'm pretty important
to you!

Thanks for the adoration.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

pssst.....Hey, dummy, don't flatter yourself. I didn't follow you
anywhere. Someone else posted that right here in rec.boats. Too stupid
to figure that out?

I don't read the bulk of what gets posted here. Only lame homos such
as yourself are still doing that.

I was about ready to unsubscribe, but now that I know how much you
would miss me, I guess I'll have to stay!

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Mar 21, 3:06 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:50:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 20, 2:04 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:19 am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT,
(Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like
to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at
the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for awhile,
eh?

???- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Newsgroups: alt.tv.american-idol
From:
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: Caroline Kennedy Collapses
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:01:51 -0400, Bob Rudd
wrote:

Pretty pathetic following me around, but I guess I'm pretty important
to you!

Thanks for the adoration.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

pssst.....Hey, dummy, don't flatter yourself. I didn't follow you
anywhere. Someone else posted that right here in rec.boats. Too stupid
to figure that out?

I don't read the bulk of what gets posted here. Only lame homos such
as yourself are still doing that.

I was about ready to unsubscribe, but now that I know how much you
would miss me, I guess I'll have to stay!

Looney is desperate for friends...even ones who think he's...well. looney.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:47:26 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Mar 21, 3:06 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:50:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 20, 2:04 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:19 am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT,
(Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like
to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at
the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for awhile,
eh?

???- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Newsgroups: alt.tv.american-idol
From:
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: Caroline Kennedy Collapses
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:01:51 -0400, Bob Rudd
wrote:

Pretty pathetic following me around, but I guess I'm pretty important
to you!

Thanks for the adoration.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

pssst.....Hey, dummy, don't flatter yourself. I didn't follow you
anywhere. Someone else posted that right here in rec.boats. Too stupid
to figure that out?

I don't read the bulk of what gets posted here. Only lame homos such
as yourself are still doing that.

I was about ready to unsubscribe, but now that I know how much you
would miss me, I guess I'll have to stay!

Looney is desperate for friends...even ones who think he's...well. looney.



If he hadn't decided to open his yap, I was getting ready to stop even
reading here, much less posting. I'm sure his friends will thank him
profusely for his good deed in retaining me!

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:13:12 -0400, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:47:26 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Mar 21, 3:06 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:50:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 20, 2:04 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:19 am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT,
(Richard
Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:
I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like
to
explore cool places. Suggestions?
If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at
the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.
Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.
Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for awhile,
eh?
???- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Newsgroups: alt.tv.american-idol
From:
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: Caroline Kennedy Collapses
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:01:51 -0400, Bob Rudd
wrote:
Pretty pathetic following me around, but I guess I'm pretty important
to you!

Thanks for the adoration.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
pssst.....Hey, dummy, don't flatter yourself. I didn't follow you
anywhere. Someone else posted that right here in rec.boats. Too stupid
to figure that out?
I don't read the bulk of what gets posted here. Only lame homos such
as yourself are still doing that.

I was about ready to unsubscribe, but now that I know how much you
would miss me, I guess I'll have to stay!
Looney is desperate for friends...even ones who think he's...well. looney.

If he hadn't decided to open his yap, I was getting ready to stop even
reading here, much less posting. I'm sure his friends will thank him
profusely for his good deed in retaining me!



Loogy picks a "target" or two, and then perseverates...he's just another
usenet idiot, the left-wing counterpart of, say, John Herring.

He's my buddy now. I'm here just for his sake. In case you hadn't
noticed, I've hardly been posting here lately. I was getting ready to
move on. Loogy has turned things around for me. I love him like a
brother now.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

wrote in message
...

He's my buddy now. I'm here just for his sake. In case you hadn't
noticed, I've hardly been posting here lately. I was getting ready to
move on. Loogy has turned things around for me. I love him like a
brother now.



Well...just don't drop your soap if he's in the vicinity.
All this warm & fuzzy talk must be making his head get all swelled & fuzzy.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...
He's my buddy now. I'm here just for his sake. In case you hadn't
noticed, I've hardly been posting here lately. I was getting ready to
move on. Loogy has turned things around for me. I love him like a
brother now.



Well...just don't drop your soap if he's in the vicinity.
All this warm & fuzzy talk must be making his head get all swelled & fuzzy.



You really know how to make a fella puke... :)

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 21, 6:47*pm, "Don White" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Mar 21, 3:06 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:50:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 20, 2:04 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:19 am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT,
(Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I like
to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are at
the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for awhile,
eh?

???- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Newsgroups: alt.tv.american-idol
From:
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: Caroline Kennedy Collapses
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:01:51 -0400, Bob Rudd
wrote:

Pretty pathetic following me around, but I guess I'm pretty important
to you!

Thanks for the adoration.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

pssst.....Hey, dummy, don't flatter yourself. I didn't follow you
anywhere. Someone else posted that right here in rec.boats. Too stupid
to figure that out?

I don't read the bulk of what gets posted here. Only lame homos such
as yourself are still doing that.

I was about ready to unsubscribe, but now that I know how much you
would miss me, I guess I'll have to stay!

Looney is desperate for friends...even ones who think he's...well. *looney.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hey, Don, go back to the thread where you claimed to have "facts" that
I grow pot, I smoke pot, and I broke my daughters arms. Please post
those facts, that is if you want even a tiny bit of credibility.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:10:54 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

He's my buddy now. I'm here just for his sake. In case you hadn't
noticed, I've hardly been posting here lately. I was getting ready to
move on. Loogy has turned things around for me. I love him like a
brother now.



Well...just don't drop your soap if he's in the vicinity.
All this warm & fuzzy talk must be making his head get all swelled & fuzzy.


More 'independent thinking' Don?
--

John H

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government
results from too much government."

Thomas Jefferson

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:10:54 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..

He's my buddy now. I'm here just for his sake. In case you hadn't
noticed, I've hardly been posting here lately. I was getting ready to
move on. Loogy has turned things around for me. I love him like a
brother now.



Well...just don't drop your soap if he's in the vicinity.
All this warm & fuzzy talk must be making his head get all swelled &
fuzzy.


More 'independent thinking' Don?
--

John H


Naw...copied this 'thinking' from you and your Dopey Army.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

wrote in message
...
On Mar 21, 6:47 pm, "Don White" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Mar 21, 3:06 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:50:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 20, 2:04 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:19 am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT,
(Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I
like
to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are
at
the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into
flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for
awhile,
eh?

???- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Newsgroups: alt.tv.american-idol
From:
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: Caroline Kennedy Collapses
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:01:51 -0400, Bob Rudd
wrote:

Pretty pathetic following me around, but I guess I'm pretty important
to you!

Thanks for the adoration.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

pssst.....Hey, dummy, don't flatter yourself. I didn't follow you
anywhere. Someone else posted that right here in rec.boats. Too stupid
to figure that out?

I don't read the bulk of what gets posted here. Only lame homos such
as yourself are still doing that.

I was about ready to unsubscribe, but now that I know how much you
would miss me, I guess I'll have to stay!

Looney is desperate for friends...even ones who think he's...well. looney.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hey, Don, go back to the thread where you claimed to have "facts" that
I grow pot, I smoke pot, and I broke my daughters arms. Please post
those facts, that is if you want even a tiny bit of credibility.

************************************************** *****

I have to be careful Looney,
I could be called as a witness in any case against you if the authorities
get wind of any 'proof' I might have.
It's all for your own protection.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 22, 1:41*pm, "Don White" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Mar 21, 6:47 pm, "Don White" wrote:





wrote in message

.. .

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Mar 21, 3:06 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:50:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Mar 20, 2:04 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:19 am, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:26 GMT,
(Richard

Casady) wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:34:26 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I'll try fishing although I am a poor fisherman. Mostly, I
like
to
explore cool places. Suggestions?

If you want to explore cool places, take up caving. Caves are
at
the
annual average temperature, 55 F or so. Do not swim into
flooded
caves. If you do, you will die in one sooner or later.

Froggy knows a lot more about caves than you do.

Hey! I guess you're done watching American Idol re-runs for
awhile,
eh?

???- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Newsgroups: alt.tv.american-idol
From:
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: Caroline Kennedy Collapses
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:01:51 -0400, Bob Rudd
wrote:

Pretty pathetic following me around, but I guess I'm pretty important
to you!

Thanks for the adoration.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

pssst.....Hey, dummy, don't flatter yourself. I didn't follow you
anywhere. Someone else posted that right here in rec.boats. Too stupid
to figure that out?

I don't read the bulk of what gets posted here. Only lame homos such
as yourself are still doing that.

I was about ready to unsubscribe, but now that I know how much you
would miss me, I guess I'll have to stay!

Looney is desperate for friends...even ones who think he's...well. looney.

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hey, Don, go back to the thread where you claimed to have "facts" that
I grow pot, I smoke pot, and I broke my daughters arms. Please post
those facts, that is if you want even a tiny bit of credibility.

************************************************** *****

I have to be careful Looney,
I could be called as a witness in any case against you if the authorities
get wind of any 'proof' I might have.
It's all for your own protection.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pssssst, dummy! How could that possibly be? You don't even know who I
am, how could you possibly be "protecting" me? Let 'er rip. I really
want you to show everyone here your credibility or lack of........
"Facts" please......

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

wrote in message
...

Pssssst, dummy! How could that possibly be? You don't even know who I
am, how could you possibly be "protecting" me? Let 'er rip. I really
want you to show everyone here your credibility or lack of........
"Facts" please......

************************************************** ***********

Of course I know who you are.
You're Kevin.....the LooneyTune guy.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...

Pssssst, dummy! How could that possibly be? You don't even know who I
am, how could you possibly be "protecting" me? Let 'er rip. I really
want you to show everyone here your credibility or lack of........
"Facts" please......

************************************************** ***********

Of course I know who you are.
You're Kevin.....the LooneyTune guy.




AKA, Asskisser, if memory serves. The guy who holds the highway
construction sign that says "SLOW."

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 22, 5:38*pm, "Don White" wrote:
wrote in message

...

Pssssst, dummy! How could that possibly be? You don't even know who I
am, how could you possibly be "protecting" me? Let 'er rip. I really
want you to show everyone here your credibility or lack of........
"Facts" please......

************************************************** ***********

Of course I know who you are.
You're Kevin.....the LooneyTune guy.

How about those "facts" please? Do you have ANY credibility?

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 22, 5:43*pm, HK wrote:
Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...

Pssssst, dummy! How could that possibly be? You don't even know who I
am, how could you possibly be "protecting" me? Let 'er rip. I really
want you to show everyone here your credibility or lack of........
"Facts" please......

************************************************** ***********

Of course I know who you are.
You're Kevin.....the LooneyTune guy.

AKA, Asskisser, if memory serves. The guy who holds the highway
construction sign that says "SLOW."

Well then, your memory doesn't serve you very well.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:02:26 -0400, HK wrote:

I went into a couple of coal mines when I worked for The AP. It was
damned scary being down under all that rock. I did not get the same
feelings of fear in the natural caves tourists like me visit near the
Shenandoah River.

A cave is stable, short term, and the rock usually won't move, short
of an earthquake. In a mine, the support has been removed, and
sometimes replaced with not enough costly timber shoring. Or in the
case of coal, they would leave too small and too widely spaced pillars
of coal that they would rather sell. Then they tease it with constant
blasting or digging. It can take a while for things to reach
equilibrium after a blast, and sometimes you can hear the timbers
groaning. The trifecta of dangerous trades: Farming, fishing, and
mining.

Casady

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mar 23, 9:20 am, Richard Casady
wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:02:26 -0400, HK wrote:
I went into a couple of coal mines when I worked for The AP. It was
damned scary being down under all that rock. I did not get the same
feelings of fear in the natural caves tourists like me visit near the
Shenandoah River.

A cave is stable, short term, and the rock usually won't move, short
of an earthquake. In a mine, the support has been removed, and
sometimes replaced with not enough costly timber shoring. Or in the
case of coal, they would leave too small and too widely spaced pillars
of coal that they would rather sell. Then they tease it with constant
blasting or digging. It can take a while for things to reach
equilibrium after a blast, and sometimes you can hear the timbers
groaning. The trifecta of dangerous trades: Farming, fishing, and
mining.

Casady

Casady:

Very true. Natural rockfalls in caves are very rare. Most of the
rocks that could fall already did so long ago. In all my years of
caving, I only saw one rock fall by itself. I know of only 1 fatality
due to rockfall. in N Alabama in War Eagle pit in 1983 when a bus
sized rock fell on 3 cavers.
Mines OTOH are supposed to be unstable so they can get ore out.
Look at the formations in caves, those things take centuries to form
and wouldnt be there if the place was unstable.
The greatest danger in caves is from falling.
Dont get me started talking about caving, i won't be able to stop.

Taking the Tolman to the Keys
 

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:42:55 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Very true. Natural rockfalls in caves are very rare. Most of the
rocks that could fall already did so long ago. In all my years of
caving, I only saw one rock fall by itself.

Some mountain climbing involves walls, that is more than 60 deg.
Water will seep into cracks in the rock and freeze at night, expanding
the crack. It stays in place for the time being, glued in place by the
ice. Next day, when the climbers are on it, the ice melts, and the
rocks loosened the night before come down in a steady shower.
The Eiger, in the Alps, is notorious in the literature, and a movie,
for deadly falling rock. Caves don't usually have freeze/thaw. And,
while you can get seriously wet in a cave, there is no wind.

Casady