Gunner's Status
 

On 02 Feb 2009 17:26:03 GMT, Curly Surmudgeon wrote:

On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 06:46:19 -0500, Cliff wrote:

On 01 Feb 2009 19:51:58 GMT, Curly Surmudgeon
wrote:

everything cost less than $100 usd

You have to look at the median wage to compare. How many hours worked
is that, as an example?
You are trading labor for specialized labor at the core of it, plus $$
imports at $$ for $$ rates.

Ok, that very, very complete physical, all xrays, lab tests and doctors
appointments was about a weeks salary in Argentina.

Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.
--
Cliff

Gunner's Status
 

Cliff wrote in news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@
4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and they were
begging for asylum in the US.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and they
were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated, kind and
anxious to help society.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrest Bush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunner's Status
 

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in news:4994f3e2$0$31588
:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and they
were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated, kind and
anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

It was all over the news a while back.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

D Murphy wrote:
Curly Surmudgeon wrote in news:4994f3e2$0$31588
:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and they
were begging for asylum in the US.
Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated, kind and
anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

It was all over the news a while back.

The "left-wing MSM" no doubt...

Dan

Gunner's Status
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 05:39:40 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:4994f3e2$0$31588 :

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and they
were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated, kind
and anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

It was all over the news a while back.

Yeah, in the year 2000...

And it was two doctors.

Nor did the _single_ doctor in the 2007 article mention slavery. Where
do you get your prejudice, World Nut Daily?

My statement stands as first-hand knowledge. The Cuban doctors I've
spoken to were proud of their profession and country while helping
others. It's amazing just how many and numerous they are. In many small
villages and towns there seems to be a Cuban doctor. You can't help but
run across them. I've seen them from the Northern jungles of Paraguay on
the Brazilian border to the remote Bolivian and Peruvian Andes.

Many are women.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrest Bush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunner's Status
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 05:39:40 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:4994f3e2$0$31588 :

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and they
were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated, kind
and anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

It was all over the news a while back.

From your google search string:


Cuban health professionals who defected apply for fast-track entry to...
Free with registration - Knight Ridder Washington Bureau -
AccessMyLibrary.com - Mar 9, 2007
Cuba has an estimated 40000 doctors, dentists, nurses and other medical
personnel working in 69 countries, including some 15000 in Venezuela. ...

Most go on to say that almost 100 medical personal, not doctors, have
applied for asylum in the U.S. under a program set up to lure
professionals from Cuba.

Whoop-de-****ing-do, 0.25% *medical* *personal,* not "doctors,"accepted
bribes amounting to hundreds of thousands of dollars. So, again, where
did you "hear[d] they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and
begging for asylum"?

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrest Bush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunner's Status
 

On 13 Feb 2009 05:39:40 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in news:4994f3e2$0$31588
:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and they
were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated, kind and
anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

And you found that BS.

It was all over the news a while back.

Right.
--
Cliff

Gunner's Status
 

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 05:39:40 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:4994f3e2$0$31588 :

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and
they were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated, kind
and anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

It was all over the news a while back.

From your google search string:


Cuban health professionals who defected apply for fast-track entry
to... Free with registration - Knight Ridder Washington Bureau -
AccessMyLibrary.com - Mar 9, 2007
Cuba has an estimated 40000 doctors, dentists, nurses and other
medical personnel working in 69 countries, including some 15000 in
Venezuela. ...

Most go on to say that almost 100 medical personal, not doctors, have
applied for asylum in the U.S. under a program set up to lure
professionals from Cuba.

Whoop-de-****ing-do, 0.25% *medical* *personal,* not
"doctors,"accepted bribes amounting to hundreds of thousands of
dollars. So, again, where did you "hear[d] they were being treated
like slaves in Venezuela and begging for asylum"?


I suppose if you think Cuban's are free and allowed to raom around
Venezuela unmonitored then what you just wrote makes sense.

The truth is that they are not. They can only apply for asylum if they
can escape across the border to Columbia.

Cuban health professionals are being traded for oil and some that have
escaped report to being forced to campaign and promote Chavez.

They aren't allowed to talk to the press. How many are in Venezuela
against their will? How many is too many? 5%? 50%?

Or doesn't their will matter just as long as they are treating poor
people for "free"?

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

Cliff wrote in
:

On 13 Feb 2009 05:39:40 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:4994f3e2$0$31588 :

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and
they were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated, kind
and anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

And you found that BS.

It was all over the news a while back.

Right.

More brilliant insight.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:57:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 05:39:40 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:4994f3e2$0$31588 :

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and
they were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated, kind
and anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

It was all over the news a while back.

Yeah, in the year 2000...

And it was two doctors.

Nor did the _single_ doctor in the 2007 article mention slavery. Where
do you get your prejudice, World Nut Daily?

Where is the slavery?

My statement stands as first-hand knowledge. The Cuban doctors I've
spoken to were proud of their profession and country while helping
others. It's amazing just how many and numerous they are. In many small
villages and towns there seems to be a Cuban doctor. You can't help but
run across them. I've seen them from the Northern jungles of Paraguay on
the Brazilian border to the remote Bolivian and Peruvian Andes.

Many, actually most I've encountered, are women.

From your google search string:


Cuban health professionals who defected apply for fast-track entry
to... Free with registration - Knight Ridder Washington Bureau -
AccessMyLibrary.com - Mar 9, 2007
Cuba has an estimated 40000 doctors, dentists, nurses and other medical
personnel working in 69 countries, including some 15000 in Venezuela.
...

Most go on to say that almost 100 medical personal, not doctors, have
applied for asylum in the U.S. under a program set up to lure
professionals from Cuba.

Whoop-de-****ing-do, 0.25% *medical* *personal,* not "doctors,"accepted
bribes amounting to hundreds of thousands of dollars. So, again, where
did you "hear[d] they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and
begging for asylum"?


I suppose if you think Cuban's are free and allowed to raom around
Venezuela unmonitored then what you just wrote makes sense.

What makes you think otherwise? Any first hand knowledge or just
unsubstantiated opinion?

The truth is that they are not. They can only apply for asylum if they
can escape across the border to Columbia.

Cite?

Cuban health professionals are being traded for oil and some that have
escaped report to being forced to campaign and promote Chavez.

Cite? Your own reports shows that only 0.25% accepted U.S. bribes to
relocate.

They aren't allowed to talk to the press.

Where do you get this stuff?

How many are in Venezuela against their will? How many is too many? 5%?
50%?

How many claims are you going to fabricate?

Or doesn't their will matter just as long as they are treating poor
people for "free"?

Let's see, Cubans working among the poor and indigenous without charge
are bad, much worse, than U.S. doctors denying health care to the poor
and elderly. What planet do you live on?

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrest Bush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunner's Status
 

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:58:16 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
:

On 13 Feb 2009 05:39:40 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:4994f3e2$0$31588 :

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and
they were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated, kind
and anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

And you found that BS.

It was all over the news a while back.

Right.

More brilliant insight.

Then provide a cite to your disproven claims.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrest Bush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunner's Status
 

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:57:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 05:39:40 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:4994f3e2$0$31588 :

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and
they were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia,
Paraguay, Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well
educated, kind and anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

It was all over the news a while back.

Yeah, in the year 2000...

There have been hundreds of defections.


And it was two doctors.

Nor did the _single_ doctor in the 2007 article mention slavery.
Where do you get your prejudice, World Nut Daily?

Where is the slavery?

I never claimed slavery. I made an analogy relating their poor working
conditions to slavery.


My statement stands as first-hand knowledge. The Cuban doctors I've
spoken to were proud of their profession and country while helping
others. It's amazing just how many and numerous they are. In many
small villages and towns there seems to be a Cuban doctor. You can't
help but run across them. I've seen them from the Northern jungles of
Paraguay on the Brazilian border to the remote Bolivian and Peruvian
Andes.

Many, actually most I've encountered, are women.

OK. All I said is that some want to defect. Many have been murdered, beaten
and robbed. They are poorly compensated and Venezuelan doctors claim that
they are poorly trained. Service can be compulsory:

Cuba - section 220 of the Labour Code: a sentence of imprisonment of from
six months to two years may be imposed on a person who, by breach of the
duties placed on him by his office, employment, occupation or profession in
a state economic unit (particularly of his duties relating to the
observance of the standards or standard-setting instructions and other
rules and instructions concerning technological discipline) causes harm or
substantial prejudice to the production output or to the rendering of
services by the unit or to its equipment, machines, machinery, tools or
other technical devices. The Committee has noted the information provided
by the Government in its report (including the documents annexed to the
report), to the effect that any sentences of correctional labour imposed
for violations of this provision are subject to the person sentenced being
willing to perform such labour.


http://www.ilo.org/public/english/st...6/pdf/rep-iii-
1b.pdf


From your google search string:


Cuban health professionals who defected apply for fast-track entry
to... Free with registration - Knight Ridder Washington Bureau -
AccessMyLibrary.com - Mar 9, 2007
Cuba has an estimated 40000 doctors, dentists, nurses and other
medical personnel working in 69 countries, including some 15000 in
Venezuela. ...

Most go on to say that almost 100 medical personal, not doctors,
have applied for asylum in the U.S. under a program set up to lure
professionals from Cuba.

Whoop-de-****ing-do, 0.25% *medical* *personal,* not
"doctors,"accepted bribes amounting to hundreds of thousands of
dollars. So, again, where did you "hear[d] they were being treated
like slaves in Venezuela and begging for asylum"?


I suppose if you think Cuban's are free and allowed to raom around
Venezuela unmonitored then what you just wrote makes sense.

What makes you think otherwise? Any first hand knowledge or just
unsubstantiated opinion?

I've read first hand accounts from defectors.


The truth is that they are not. They can only apply for asylum if
they can escape across the border to Columbia.

Cite?

Cuban health professionals are being traded for oil and some that
have escaped report to being forced to campaign and promote Chavez.

Cite? Your own reports shows that only 0.25% accepted U.S. bribes to
relocate.

They aren't allowed to talk to the press.

Where do you get this stuff?

Just open your eyes.

http://www.cubastudygroup.org/index.cfm?
FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=38 87&Month=8&Year=2008


How many are in Venezuela against their will? How many is too many?
5%? 50%?

How many claims are you going to fabricate?

Where is the fabrication? I asked a question.


Or doesn't their will matter just as long as they are treating poor
people for "free"?

Let's see, Cubans working among the poor and indigenous without charge
are bad, much worse, than U.S. doctors denying health care to the poor
and elderly. What planet do you live on?


Projection.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 01:00:21 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
:

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:57:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 05:39:40 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:4994f3e2$0$31588 :

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and
they were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia,
Paraguay, Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well
educated, kind and anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

It was all over the news a while back.

Yeah, in the year 2000...

There have been hundreds of defections.

Another claim you've failed to substantiate. Bribery is a better word in
this context, Cubans are bribed to defect with lives of luxury supported
by the U.S. Government for propaganda. Above your own link google links
claim on the average 100 defections. That's out out of 40,000 medical
personal or 0.25% who took the bribes offered. One quarter of one
percent.

And it was two doctors.

Nor did the _single_ doctor in the 2007 article mention slavery. Where
do you get your prejudice, World Nut Daily?

Where is the slavery?

I never claimed slavery. I made an analogy relating their poor working
conditions to slavery.

No, you said, "Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in
Venezuela..."

Where's the slavery?

My statement stands as first-hand knowledge. The Cuban doctors I've
spoken to were proud of their profession and country while helping
others. It's amazing just how many and numerous they are. In many
small villages and towns there seems to be a Cuban doctor. You can't
help but run across them. I've seen them from the Northern jungles of
Paraguay on the Brazilian border to the remote Bolivian and Peruvian
Andes.

Many, actually most I've encountered, are women.

OK. All I said is that some want to defect.

Cite?

Many have been murdered, beaten and robbed.

A new charge, any cites?

They are poorly compensated and Venezuelan doctors claim that they are
poorly trained.

Any cites to substantiate that claim?

Service can be compulsory:

Any cites to substantiate that claim?

Cuba - section 220 of the Labour Code: a sentence of imprisonment of
from six months to two years may be imposed on a person who, by breach
of the duties placed on him by his office, employment, occupation or
profession in a state economic unit (particularly of his duties relating
to the observance of the standards or standard-setting instructions and
other rules and instructions concerning technological discipline) causes
harm or substantial prejudice to the production output or to the
rendering of services by the unit or to its equipment, machines,
machinery, tools or other technical devices. The Committee has noted the
information provided by the Government in its report (including the
documents annexed to the report), to the effect that any sentences of
correctional labour imposed for violations of this provision are subject
to the person sentenced being willing to perform such labour.


http://www.ilo.org/public/english/st...6/pdf/rep-iii-
1b.pdf

What does that have to do with the 40,000 doctors Cuba sends all over the
world?

From your google search string:


Cuban health professionals who defected apply for fast-track entry
to... Free with registration - Knight Ridder Washington Bureau -
AccessMyLibrary.com - Mar 9, 2007
Cuba has an estimated 40000 doctors, dentists, nurses and other
medical personnel working in 69 countries, including some 15000 in
Venezuela. ...

Most go on to say that almost 100 medical personal, not doctors, have
applied for asylum in the U.S. under a program set up to lure
professionals from Cuba.

Whoop-de-****ing-do, 0.25% *medical* *personal,* not
"doctors,"accepted bribes amounting to hundreds of thousands of
dollars. So, again, where did you "hear[d] they were being treated
like slaves in Venezuela and begging for asylum"?


I suppose if you think Cuban's are free and allowed to raom around
Venezuela unmonitored then what you just wrote makes sense.

What makes you think otherwise? Any first hand knowledge or just
unsubstantiated opinion?

I've read first hand accounts from defectors.

In other words you really don't have a clue.

The truth is that they are not. They can only apply for asylum if they
can escape across the border to Columbia.

Cite?

Cuban health professionals are being traded for oil and some that have
escaped report to being forced to campaign and promote Chavez.

Cite? Your own reports shows that only 0.25% accepted U.S. bribes to
relocate.

Still no cites. Don't expect to bull**** your way through this.

They aren't allowed to talk to the press.

Where do you get this stuff?

Just open your eyes.

Better than opening my eyes, I've met the very people you're speaking
of. I've traveled with, dined with, socialized with Cuban doctors and
you're wrong. Don't believe the propaganda we've been fed for 50 years
and research the topic objectively. Better yet get off your couch and do
your own research.

http://www.cubastudygroup.org/index.cfm?
FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=38 87&Month=8&Year=2008


How many are in Venezuela against their will? How many is too many?
5%? 50%?

How many claims are you going to fabricate?

Where is the fabrication? I asked a question.

Your question was an implication just as mine was.

Or doesn't their will matter just as long as they are treating poor
people for "free"?

Let's see, Cubans working among the poor and indigenous without charge
are bad, much worse, than U.S. doctors denying health care to the poor
and elderly. What planet do you live on?


Projection.

To recap, you read a few websites and ran them through your prejudicial
filters then make assertions that don't exist in the real world.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrest Bush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunner's Status
 

On 15 Feb 2009 01:00:21 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cuba - section 220 of the Labour Code: a sentence of imprisonment of from
six months to two years may be imposed on a person who, by breach of the
duties placed on him by his office, employment, occupation or profession in
a state economic unit (particularly of his duties relating to the
observance of the standards or standard-setting instructions and other
rules and instructions concerning technological discipline) causes harm or
substantial prejudice to the production output or to the rendering of
services by the unit or to its equipment, machines, machinery, tools or
other technical devices. The Committee has noted the information provided
by the Government in its report (including the documents annexed to the
report), to the effect that any sentences of correctional labour imposed
for violations of this provision are subject to the person sentenced being
willing to perform such labour.

Bankers & brokers in jail for massive fraud instead of
getting about 9 trillion in "bailouts" plus huge bonuses
from bushco buddies?
How would that work out?
How about considering them as terrorists?

IIRC The UK has brought charges against some already ..
--
Cliff

Gunner's Status
 

On 15 Feb 2009 01:00:21 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

What makes you think otherwise? Any first hand knowledge or just
unsubstantiated opinion?

I've read first hand accounts from defectors.

IOW his unsubstantiated opinion.
--
Cliff

Gunner's Status
 

On 14 Feb 2009 16:58:16 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
:

On 13 Feb 2009 05:39:40 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:4994f3e2$0$31588 :

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and
they were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated, kind
and anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

And you found that BS.

It was all over the news a while back.

Right.

More brilliant insight.

And Curly nailed you.
With wingers where's the sport?
--
Cliff

Gunner's Status
 

Cliff wrote in
:

On 14 Feb 2009 16:58:16 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
m:

On 13 Feb 2009 05:39:40 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:4994f3e2$0$31588 :

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:48 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
news:hnv7p4d6k1srg5gl5v3r4n446cms9kfci7@ 4ax.com:


Send some of those Cuba-trained doctors to the US.


Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in Venezuela and
they were begging for asylum in the US.

Cites?

My conversations with Cuban doctors in Argentina, Bolivia,
Paraguay,
Venezuela and Peru said no such thing. All were well educated,
kind
and anxious to help society.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch...GLG,GGLG:2006-
16,GGLG:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=cuban+doctors+venezuela+asylum

Pick a source you trust.

And you found that BS.

It was all over the news a while back.

Right.

More brilliant insight.

And Curly nailed you.

Says you. At least he has a brain unlike yourself. Because of that I
might have learned a little more about the subject.

With wingers where's the sport?

Your contribution is name calling. Big surprise.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

On 16 Feb 2009 05:36:09 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

And Curly nailed you.

Says you. At least he has a brain unlike yourself. Because of that I
might have learned a little more about the subject.

And your claims & assumptions were wrong in the first place, right?
You buy winger propaganda in wholesale batches.
--
Cliff

Gunner's Status
 

On 16 Feb 2009 05:31:20 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

I've also read where they are monitored and their documents are
confiscated when they arrive.

Never been outside the US, eh?
Let's see your green card.
--
Cliff

Gunner's Status
 

On 16 Feb 2009 05:31:20 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

They also seek asylum in Venezuela, Canada, etc.

Thought Canada was now refusing it to some from the US.
--
Cliff

Gunner's Status
 

On 16 Feb 2009 05:31:20 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

They also seek asylum in Venezuela, Canada, etc.

Thought you said they were fleeing Venezuela in
droves ... now they want back in?
--
Cliff

Gunner's Status
 

On 16 Feb 2009 05:31:20 GMT, D Murphy wrote:


No, you said, "Last I heard they were being treated like slaves in
Venezuela..."

Where's the slavery?

"Like" meaning "analgous to". Refering to working very long hours in very
poor and dangerous neighborhoods at below poverty line wages.

Did I miss the AMA trying to recruit from Cuba?
--
Cliff

Gunner's Status
 

On 16 Feb 2009 05:31:20 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

However, since August of 2006 U.S. policy towards doctors and other
medical specialists has changed, resulting in as many as 500 medical
professionals and their dependents applying for entry to the U.S. from
the countries where they serve -- outside of Cuba. Other medical
professionals serving in Venezuela have crossed the border into Colombia
to seek asylum in that country as well as in foreign embassies located
there.]

So doctors & nurses like money?
--
Cliff

Gunner's Status
 

Cliff wrote in news:unojp4pd04kdckmuletgjrjr15rtgorm94@
4ax.com:

On 16 Feb 2009 05:31:20 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

I've also read where they are monitored and their documents are
confiscated when they arrive.

Never been outside the US, eh?
Let's see your green card.

I've filled more than one passport and took six years of Spanish, but it's
been a while, and while I'm sure I'd struggle I could probably get by.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

Cliff wrote in news:ssojp411u2mon0rs9p8q259d4qt42r673p@
4ax.com:

On 16 Feb 2009 05:31:20 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

They also seek asylum in Venezuela, Canada, etc.

Thought you said they were fleeing Venezuela in
droves ... now they want back in?

Not what I said.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

Cliff wrote in news:rkojp4la63r4e5h2jrbtmbdp9tn0fmatu0@
4ax.com:

On 16 Feb 2009 05:36:09 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

And Curly nailed you.

Says you. At least he has a brain unlike yourself. Because of that I
might have learned a little more about the subject.

And your claims & assumptions were wrong in the first place, right?
You buy winger propaganda in wholesale batches.

Nope.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in news:499931b3$0$31617
:

Many have been murdered, beaten and robbed.

A new charge, any cites?

A new charge, any cites?

They are poorly compensated and Venezuelan doctors claim that they are
poorly trained.

Any cites to substantiate that claim?

Start by reading the speech Chavez gave where he condemmed the murder of
a Cuban doctor.

It's your claim, you provide the cite.

Here is one I turned up in a quick search -

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/...-diplomacy.htm

I did read a report about Chavez mentioning a particular murder of a Cuban
doctor in a speech. It was newsworthy in that he rarely admits to any sort
of problems publicly.

Seriously, they aren't all serving in remote rural areas. Some are posted
in very dangerous urban neighborhoods, the likes of which don't exist in
Cuba, where violent crime is prevelent. And I'll wager that these Cuban
docs are far from street wise.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:28:32 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:499931b3$0$31617 :

Many have been murdered, beaten and robbed.

A new charge, any cites?

A new charge, any cites?

They are poorly compensated and Venezuelan doctors claim that they
are poorly trained.

Any cites to substantiate that claim?

Start by reading the speech Chavez gave where he condemmed the murder
of a Cuban doctor.

It's your claim, you provide the cite.

Here is one I turned up in a quick search -

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/...-diplomacy.htm

Ok, that's one in 72,000 or 0.001389%. All numbers taken from your
article.

I did read a report about Chavez mentioning a particular murder of a
Cuban doctor in a speech. It was newsworthy in that he rarely admits to
any sort of problems publicly.

Seriously, they aren't all serving in remote rural areas. Some are
posted in very dangerous urban neighborhoods, the likes of which don't
exist in Cuba, where violent crime is prevelent.

No doubt, there are, indeed, some very dangerous barrios in every large
town. Caracas has two really nasty ones that I was repeatedly advised to
stay clear of. Nor is it a surprise they exist.

150 years of foreign enslavement by the U.S. Government and corporations
have kept Venezuela in turmoil with repeated riots, military takeover,
dictators, and socialists. Read "Shock Doctrine" which focuses on
Chile. The policies were carried out in "Gran Columbia" a century before.

Are you aware that Venezuela, like Panama, was part of Gran Columbia
before the US shattered the nation to obtain a legal pretext for
ownership to build the canal?

Stop blaming the Latins for events caused, directly, by the United States.

And I'll wager that these Cuban docs are far from street wise.

I'm not a bookie.


--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrest Bush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunner's Status
 

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:28:32 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:499931b3$0$31617 :

Many have been murdered, beaten and robbed.

A new charge, any cites?

A new charge, any cites?

They are poorly compensated and Venezuelan doctors claim that
they are poorly trained.

Any cites to substantiate that claim?

Start by reading the speech Chavez gave where he condemmed the
murder of a Cuban doctor.

It's your claim, you provide the cite.

Here is one I turned up in a quick search -

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/...-diplomacy.htm

Ok, that's one in 72,000 or 0.001389%. All numbers taken from your
article.

Believe it or not I'm pretty good at math.

BTW, "one" being the cite, more cases were mentioned in the article which
is just one doctor's first hand account. And of course her experience
could be the worst of anyone elses, typical, or better. There's no way of
knowing.


I did read a report about Chavez mentioning a particular murder of a
Cuban doctor in a speech. It was newsworthy in that he rarely admits
to any sort of problems publicly.

Seriously, they aren't all serving in remote rural areas. Some are
posted in very dangerous urban neighborhoods, the likes of which
don't exist in Cuba, where violent crime is prevelent.

No doubt, there are, indeed, some very dangerous barrios in every
large town. Caracas has two really nasty ones that I was repeatedly
advised to stay clear of. Nor is it a surprise they exist.

150 years of foreign enslavement by the U.S. Government and
corporations have kept Venezuela in turmoil with repeated riots,
military takeover, dictators, and socialists. Read "Shock Doctrine"
which focuses on Chile. The policies were carried out in "Gran
Columbia" a century before.

Are you aware that Venezuela, like Panama, was part of Gran Columbia
before the US shattered the nation to obtain a legal pretext for
ownership to build the canal?

I doubt that has much to do with bad neighborhoods. They exist almost
everywhere.

The US also paid Columbia restitution and one could argue that the
construction effort eliminated a lot of disease in the area and improved
living conditions for many.

As far as Venezuela goes, they pulled out of Gran Columbia in 1830, long
before the building of the Panama Canal, which BTW, was originally
started by the French. But yeah, Roosevelt muscled his way in there and
sponsored revolution.

To say the United States "enslaved" the Venezuelan government in mid 19th
century has no basis in the reality of the situation there at that time
though.


Stop blaming the Latins for events caused, directly, by the United
States.

I never blamed anyone for anything. You are reading way too much into
this. But as long as we are looking for villians in Latin American
history, maybe we should start with Cortez? In the end we can no more
change that history as the rest, so maybe it's best to look forward.

It's always easy to look at the past with 20/20 hindsight and see the
mistakes. It's also easy to live in the past and blame it for every
percieved wrong in ones life. Blame is the life blood of populist
socialist governments. It deflects the critisism away from any of their
failings and points it toward some big imagined evil empire.


And I'll wager that these Cuban docs are far from street wise.

I'm not a bookie.


Just a figure of speech.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 06:43:42 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:28:32 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in
news:499931b3$0$31617 :

Many have been murdered, beaten and robbed.

A new charge, any cites?

A new charge, any cites?

They are poorly compensated and Venezuelan doctors claim that they
are poorly trained.

Any cites to substantiate that claim?

Start by reading the speech Chavez gave where he condemmed the
murder of a Cuban doctor.

It's your claim, you provide the cite.

Here is one I turned up in a quick search -

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/...-diplomacy.htm

Ok, that's one in 72,000 or 0.001389%. All numbers taken from your
article.

Believe it or not I'm pretty good at math.

BTW, "one" being the cite, more cases were mentioned in the article
which is just one doctor's first hand account. And of course her
experience could be the worst of anyone elses, typical, or better.
There's no way of knowing.


I did read a report about Chavez mentioning a particular murder of a
Cuban doctor in a speech. It was newsworthy in that he rarely admits
to any sort of problems publicly.

Seriously, they aren't all serving in remote rural areas. Some are
posted in very dangerous urban neighborhoods, the likes of which don't
exist in Cuba, where violent crime is prevelent.

No doubt, there are, indeed, some very dangerous barrios in every large
town. Caracas has two really nasty ones that I was repeatedly advised
to stay clear of. Nor is it a surprise they exist.

150 years of foreign enslavement by the U.S. Government and
corporations have kept Venezuela in turmoil with repeated riots,
military takeover, dictators, and socialists. Read "Shock Doctrine"
which focuses on Chile. The policies were carried out in "Gran
Columbia" a century before.

Are you aware that Venezuela, like Panama, was part of Gran Columbia
before the US shattered the nation to obtain a legal pretext for
ownership to build the canal?

I doubt that has much to do with bad neighborhoods. They exist almost
everywhere.

The US also paid Columbia restitution and one could argue that the
construction effort eliminated a lot of disease in the area and improved
living conditions for many.

As far as Venezuela goes, they pulled out of Gran Columbia in 1830, long
before the building of the Panama Canal, which BTW, was originally
started by the French. But yeah, Roosevelt muscled his way in there and
sponsored revolution.

True, 1830, but the point was that the U.S. broke up Gran Columbia.
Actually the U.S. never left the region for long with repeated "lessons"
to keep the region in line.

To say the United States "enslaved" the Venezuelan government in mid
19th century has no basis in the reality of the situation there at that
time though.

Economically enslaved, the United Fruit Company, Dole, and other U.S.
corporations used the U.S. military to stomp any locals who might
threaten their looting.

Stop blaming the Latins for events caused, directly, by the United
States.

I never blamed anyone for anything. You are reading way too much into
this. But as long as we are looking for villians in Latin American
history, maybe we should start with Cortez? In the end we can no more
change that history as the rest, so maybe it's best to look forward.

I'd begin with the Catholic Church, to which all the Conquistadors paid
homage and representatives did, literally, enslave the indigenous.

It's always easy to look at the past with 20/20 hindsight and see the
mistakes. It's also easy to live in the past and blame it for every
percieved wrong in ones life. Blame is the life blood of populist
socialist governments. It deflects the critisism away from any of their
failings and points it toward some big imagined evil empire.

I believe you began the blame game criticizing Chavez.

To understand the reality of Latin America one must comprehend the
history of the region. When you grasp where Chavez is coming from its a
lot easier to understand why he is vociferously protective of his people.

I find that a refreshing change from the dictators and puppets who
preceeded Hugo Chavez and a good omen for his successor. Just as Raul
Castro is improving Cuba after Fidel.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrest Bush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunner's Status
 

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in news:499bbdbe$0
:

It's always easy to look at the past with 20/20 hindsight and see the
mistakes. It's also easy to live in the past and blame it for every
percieved wrong in ones life. Blame is the life blood of populist
socialist governments. It deflects the critisism away from any of
their
failings and points it toward some big imagined evil empire.

I believe you began the blame game criticizing Chavez.

He deserves some. The problem with his populist style of socialism is
that eventually you run out of places to take money from. State run
businesses usually go into decline fairly quickly. The wealthy hurry
their money out of the country, and after what little wealth that is left
is redistributed, there's not enough to go around.

He has benefitted from ever rising oil prices. But that train has run off
the tracks. Venezuela once had more diversity in its economy. Nowadays a
little over 90% of GDP is related to oil.

Inflation is running at 30% right now and there are food shortages. It's
not good.


To understand the reality of Latin America one must comprehend the
history of the region. When you grasp where Chavez is coming from its
a
lot easier to understand why he is vociferously protective of his
people.

I find that a refreshing change from the dictators and puppets who
preceeded Hugo Chavez and a good omen for his successor. Just as Raul
Castro is improving Cuba after Fidel.

I hope you are right. But it looks to me like he is moving to make
himself dictator for life with the removal of term limits. Time will
tell. Right now he is facing a serious crisis and he's worn out his
welcome with people who would help him, with his constant empty,
inflammatory rhetoric. Humility has a place in leadership. Hopefully
he'll find some.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Gunner's Status
 

On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:32:30 +0000, D Murphy wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote in news:499bbdbe$0
:

It's always easy to look at the past with 20/20 hindsight and see the
mistakes. It's also easy to live in the past and blame it for every
percieved wrong in ones life. Blame is the life blood of populist
socialist governments. It deflects the critisism away from any of
their
failings and points it toward some big imagined evil empire.

I believe you began the blame game criticizing Chavez.

He deserves some. The problem with his populist style of socialism is
that eventually you run out of places to take money from. State run
businesses usually go into decline fairly quickly. The wealthy hurry
their money out of the country, and after what little wealth that is
left is redistributed, there's not enough to go around.

He has benefitted from ever rising oil prices. But that train has run
off the tracks. Venezuela once had more diversity in its economy.
Nowadays a little over 90% of GDP is related to oil.

Inflation is running at 30% right now and there are food shortages. It's
not good.

True but again you must look at where he began and the outside influences
he's fighting.

To understand the reality of Latin America one must comprehend the
history of the region. When you grasp where Chavez is coming from its
a
lot easier to understand why he is vociferously protective of his
people.

I find that a refreshing change from the dictators and puppets who
preceeded Hugo Chavez and a good omen for his successor. Just as Raul
Castro is improving Cuba after Fidel.

I hope you are right. But it looks to me like he is moving to make
himself dictator for life with the removal of term limits. Time will
tell. Right now he is facing a serious crisis and he's worn out his
welcome with people who would help him, with his constant empty,
inflammatory rhetoric. Humility has a place in leadership. Hopefully
he'll find some.

Hugo's time is passing. He did what he could and it's time for new
leadership. Let's just not ignore his accomplishments.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrest Bush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunner's Status
 

On 18 Feb 2009 03:28:32 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Seriously, they aren't all serving in remote rural areas. Some are posted
in very dangerous urban neighborhoods, the likes of which don't exist in
Cuba, where violent crime is prevelent. And I'll wager that these Cuban
docs are far from street wise.

Cuba sends doctors but the US would send bombs, eh?
And US teachers & doctors get their education costs
wiped off/forgiven in many cases for doing their jobs
... often in inner-city or rural areas.
--
Cliff