AIS hardware and software
 

I'm trying to figure out the best way to install an AIS system in our
cruising sailboat. It's largely used coastally off Mexico with
occasional longer passages of a few hundred miles. Night passages are
common.

Hardware questions:

There seem to be two price points..single channel, serial only for
about $190 from Milltech or dual channel USB capable from Safe Passage
for around $800. I'm thinking single channel is adequate but I my sole
serial port is occupied by the GPS and I've had problems in the past
with the serial/usb adapters. Anyone know of a single channel USB
output receiver?

I have an unused "emergency" VHF antenna on a pole about 12 feet above
the water. I could use that for the AIS or I could use a splitter on
the masthead antenna. I'm not inclined to do anything to reduce VHF
reception. Can someone tell me the formula for VHF "line of sight"
distance?

Software questions

I'm currently using MAptech Offshore Navigator which doesn't have AIS
support. I'd have to upgrade to their newer system or else buy
another. Fugawi seems attractive. I have a whole bunch of Maptech
formatted charts but Fugawi seems to be able to handle these OK.

In either case, I would lose my "tracks" of past passages. Those are
especially handy off the Mexican coast because the charts are hand
drawn in 1888 or so and the shore is a few miles further east than the
charts show...except when it isn't. Finding a way into an anchorage
or around a rock once during daylight gives me a track I can follow
next time. Maptech suggests converting tracks to routes, but I haven't
looked into that yet. Does anyone know how to get the track files out
of Maptech's program? If they have lat longs I might be able to bring
them into the new program.

I also think I could keep the old Maptech program and switch it on
when following a past track is essential. I wonder if I could run both
simultaneously and bring the old program on screen.when I need it.

Any comments or advice? I'm not at the boat now so can't experiment
very much.

Thanks
Dick Locke
S/V Tanoshii

AIS hardware and software
 

Ahoy Dick,

I was having the same problem, decisions decisions, decisions. I
happened upon Rosepoint software. Strange, the Rosepoint Coastal
Explorer is almost identical to the Maptec Offshore Navigator Pro.
The real neat thing is it is about $200.00 cheaper. I went to this
site
http://store.milltechmarine.com/index.html and they have a package
that contains the Costal Navigator and an AIS reciever fot the price
of the Offshore Navigator.

I bought it and am happy with it.

Fair Winds
Cap'n Dave

AIS hardware and software
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ahoy Dick,

I was having the same problem, decisions decisions, decisions. I
happened upon Rosepoint software. Strange, the Rosepoint Coastal
Explorer is almost identical to the Maptec Offshore Navigator Pro.
The real neat thing is it is about $200.00 cheaper. I went to this
site
http://store.milltechmarine.com/index.html and they have a package
that contains the Costal Navigator and an AIS reciever fot the price
of the Offshore Navigator.

I bought it and am happy with it.

Fair Winds
Cap'n Dave


I can second that - bought the Coastal Explorer software and an AIS receiver
from Milltech Marine here in Seattle and it has been working great for me.
The tricky part was to set up serial in/out connections to/from my Raymarine
GPS and chartplotters to the USB ports on my laptop.

So now, after planning a route on my laptop using the CE, I can transfer
the waypoints to my Raymarine equipment. And the laptop shows all AIS
transponders within a 10-12 mile radius of our boat - and issues audible
and/or visual warnings of any ships on a collision course. Since we have a
lot of commercial traffic on Puget Sound it serves as a good back up to our
visual lookout.

Claus

AIS hardware and software
 

Strange, the Rosepoint Coastal
Explorer is almost identical to the Maptec Offshore Navigator Pro.

Uh, not quite. Rosepoint makes Coastal Explorer. MapTech 'private
labels' this and resells it as Chart Navigator Pro along with a BUNCH of
charts. Offshore Navigator was an entirely different piece of software
from Maptech. I've used all of them.

Maptech's version includes nearly their entire US waters charts,
including pictures, topo, raster, vector, 3D and more.

The real neat thing is it is about $200.00 cheaper.

Defender.com has it pretty cheap at $375. Hard to beat getting both the
software AND the charts for that price.

-Bill Kearney

AIS hardware and software
 

On Sep 16, 5:35 pm, Bill Kearney wrote:
Strange, the Rosepoint Coastal

Explorer is almost identical to the Maptec Offshore Navigator Pro.

Uh, not quite. Rosepoint makes Coastal Explorer. MapTech 'private
labels' this and resells it as Chart Navigator Pro along with a BUNCH of
charts. Offshore Navigator was an entirely different piece of software
from Maptech. I've used all of them.

Maptech's version includes nearly their entire US waters charts,
including pictures, topo, raster, vector, 3D and more.

The real neat thing is it is about $200.00 cheaper.

Defender.com has it pretty cheap at $375. Hard to beat getting both the
software AND the charts for that price.

-Bill Kearney

Ahoy Bill,

If you would check The Rose Point Program, it includes all the U.S.
Charts not some of them and the URL I posted has a deal for an AIS
reciever to boot. Take that to Defender.

With the information you provided I doubt you have used them all. I
have played with a number of charting programs but I have not used
them all. Then again I leave the dock onec in awhile.

Fair Winds

Cap'n Dave

AIS hardware and software
 

If you would check The Rose Point Program, it includes all the U.S.
Charts not some of them and the URL I posted has a deal for an AIS
reciever to boot. Take that to Defender.

Adding an AIS receiver (sp) is certainly a nice thing. But go
double-check and compare what constitutes charts on the two packages.
Doubtless you'll find a rather big difference. But then I haven't
checked their website lately.

Ah, they're now including some vector charts. That's a nice
improvement. But that's nothing compared to having the vector, raster,
3D, topo, gazetteer (place names), satellite overhead views AND aerial
pictures. It's clear you just don't know what you're talking about, but
this is nothing new.

Bottom line, the core program in the two of them is fantastic (it should
be, it's the SAME program). And if you don't need (or want) any of the
additional chart data provided in the Maptech version then it's
certainly worth considering Coastal Explorer.

As for AIS, I'm waiting for the Class B device approval for use in the
US. I'd rather wait, for two reasons. One being there's not really
much need for AIS in the Chesapeake. Someone boating elsewhere might
have different demands. Secondly, there's a decent chance prices on the
class A devices will drop as the class B units become available. I'm
not that concerned about the pricing but I'd prefer to avoid wasting
money on something I don't immediately need when there's a chance of
something better in the near future. Of course the approval process
seems rather glacial so who knows for sure.

With the information you provided I doubt you have used them all. I
have played with a number of charting programs but I have not used
them all. Then again I leave the dock onec in awhile.

Uh, find someone else to insult you pathetic slob, and get a spell
checker.

AIS hardware and software
 

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 01:02:09 -0400, Jack Erbes
wrote:

Bill Kearney wrote:

snip
Ah, they're now including some vector charts. snip

A few vector charts are included with CE's trial version download.
After you install the trial version you can go online to NOAA (not to
Rosepoint software's web site) and download any or all of the NOAA
vector and raster charts that are available. Coastal Explorer has a
very nice interface for downloading and managing charts built into it.

The other stuff that is included with the CNP package is stuff that is
not available for public download, they are other MapTech commercial
products. Stuff like the 3D bottom contours and images of coastlines
and harbors.

I'm not participating in the ongoing ****ing contest here, just trying
to add some details that go to the topic under discussion.

I like Coastal Explorer very much based on my use of the trial version.
I do think that the Coastal Explorer software still needs some work on
the way it handles route and waypoint imports and exports, also in the
way that routes and waypoints can be copied, pasted, and edited from
within Coastal Explorer.

To continue with a discussion of the qualities of the software, have
either of you guys noticed anything that could use some improvement there?

Jack

Thanks Jack. Bill and Dave seem to have shared a girlfriend in high
school or something. Mellow out guys.

Price is one issue but functionality is the important issue. I did
have a couple of hardware and software questions.

Regarding price, the Fugawi package is $210 or so. The bundle
(Rosepoint and SR161) from Milltech is $499, compared to $189 for the
SR161 receiver. That's $310 for Rosepoint, or $100 more than Fugaw
Marine ENCi. Maptech Coastal Navigator Pro is $499 as far as I can
see. It has a bunch of US-centric charts I don't need. Sooo my
question is drifting into "how good is Fugawi?"

I did learn that Coastal Navigator Pro is the same software as
Rosepoint, thanks for that.

Cheers

Dick Locke
s/v Tanoshii

AIS hardware and software
 

"Dick Locke" wrote in message
...
There seem to be two price points..single channel, serial only for
about $190 from Milltech or dual channel USB capable from Safe Passage
for around $800. I'm thinking single channel is adequate but I my sole
serial port is occupied by the GPS and I've had problems in the past
with the serial/usb adapters. Anyone know of a single channel USB
output receiver?

You could use a MiniPlex-Lite, a small NMEA multiplexer with a USB interface
and one high speed input for your AIS receiver next to two normal NMEA
inputs (GPS, etc). And it comes without the typical problems found with
serial/usb adapters. This box simply works.

Meindert
www.shipmodul.com

AIS hardware and software
 

Meindert Sprang wrote:
"Dick Locke" wrote in message
...
There seem to be two price points..single channel, serial only for
about $190 from Milltech or dual channel USB capable from Safe Passage
for around $800. I'm thinking single channel is adequate but I my sole
serial port is occupied by the GPS and I've had problems in the past
with the serial/usb adapters. Anyone know of a single channel USB
output receiver?

You could use a MiniPlex-Lite, a small NMEA multiplexer with a USB interface
and one high speed input for your AIS receiver next to two normal NMEA
inputs (GPS, etc). And it comes without the typical problems found with
serial/usb adapters. This box simply works.

Meindert
www.shipmodul.com

Meindert,

No flame intended, really! What are the typical problems with USB hubs?
Thanks!
--

Larry
rapp at lmr dot com

AIS hardware and software
 

Dick Locke wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 01:02:09 -0400, Jack Erbes
wrote:

Bill Kearney wrote:

snip
Ah, they're now including some vector charts. snip
A few vector charts are included with CE's trial version download.
After you install the trial version you can go online to NOAA (not to
Rosepoint software's web site) and download any or all of the NOAA
vector and raster charts that are available. Coastal Explorer has a
very nice interface for downloading and managing charts built into it.

The other stuff that is included with the CNP package is stuff that is
not available for public download, they are other MapTech commercial
products. Stuff like the 3D bottom contours and images of coastlines
and harbors.

I'm not participating in the ongoing ****ing contest here, just trying
to add some details that go to the topic under discussion.

I like Coastal Explorer very much based on my use of the trial version.
I do think that the Coastal Explorer software still needs some work on
the way it handles route and waypoint imports and exports, also in the
way that routes and waypoints can be copied, pasted, and edited from
within Coastal Explorer.

To continue with a discussion of the qualities of the software, have
either of you guys noticed anything that could use some improvement there?

Jack

Thanks Jack. Bill and Dave seem to have shared a girlfriend in high
school or something. Mellow out guys.

Price is one issue but functionality is the important issue. I did
have a couple of hardware and software questions.

Regarding price, the Fugawi package is $210 or so. The bundle
(Rosepoint and SR161) from Milltech is $499, compared to $189 for the
SR161 receiver. That's $310 for Rosepoint, or $100 more than Fugaw
Marine ENCi. Maptech Coastal Navigator Pro is $499 as far as I can
see. It has a bunch of US-centric charts I don't need. Sooo my
question is drifting into "how good is Fugawi?"

I did learn that Coastal Navigator Pro is the same software as
Rosepoint, thanks for that.

Cheers

Dick Locke
s/v Tanoshii

The bottom contour maps are worthless, IMHO. I've seen them.
Gordon

AIS hardware and software
 

On Sep 16, 2:57 pm, Dick Locke wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the best way to install an AIS system in our
cruising sailboat. It's largely used coastally off Mexico with
occasional longer passages of a few hundred miles. Night passages are
common.

Hardware questions:

There seem to be two price points..single channel, serial only for
about $190 from Milltech or dual channel USB capable from Safe Passage
for around $800. I'm thinking single channel is adequate but I my sole
serial port is occupied by the GPS and I've had problems in the past
with the serial/usb adapters. Anyone know of a single channel USB
output receiver?

I have an unused "emergency" VHF antenna on a pole about 12 feet above
the water. I could use that for the AIS or I could use a splitter on
the masthead antenna. I'm not inclined to do anything to reduce VHF
reception. Can someone tell me the formula for VHF "line of sight"
distance?

Software questions

I'm currently using MAptech Offshore Navigator which doesn't have AIS
support. I'd have to upgrade to their newer system or else buy
another. Fugawi seems attractive. I have a whole bunch of Maptech
formatted charts but Fugawi seems to be able to handle these OK.

In either case, I would lose my "tracks" of past passages. Those are
especially handy off the Mexican coast because the charts are hand
drawn in 1888 or so and the shore is a few miles further east than the
charts show...except when it isn't. Finding a way into an anchorage
or around a rock once during daylight gives me a track I can follow
next time. Maptech suggests converting tracks to routes, but I haven't
looked into that yet. Does anyone know how to get the track files out
of Maptech's program? If they have lat longs I might be able to bring
them into the new program.

I also think I could keep the old Maptech program and switch it on
when following a past track is essential. I wonder if I could run both
simultaneously and bring the old program on screen.when I need it.

Any comments or advice? I'm not at the boat now so can't experiment
very much.

Thanks
Dick Locke
S/V Tanoshii

Full disclosu I have an ax to grind. I am with SeaCAS. We sell dual-
band receivers. Our receivers used to cost about $800 but are now on
sale for $499 and we include a USB power/data cable which makes
connection to a PC or Mac very easy. Also our connectors are
watertight and we offer optional "Direct-Connect" cable for FURUNO and
Raymarine. To circumvent Raymarine's limitation of a single NMEA port
on their C and E series we offer a very capable Multiplexer for $330
(see http://www.seacas.com/oscomm/product...roducts_id=47).

I maintain that single band receivers are too slow to be used for
collision avoidance. AIS information is transmitted alternating
between VHF Channel 87B and 88B. Single band recievers receive only
half of the information. Their update rate is twice what it should be.
In a close quarters crossing situation you want the best available
information to help you decide how to get out of a big ship's way. You
may have to wait as long as 12 minutes to find out a ships name so you
can hail it on VHF to make assing arrangements because the name (along
with other statis and voyage information) is sent our every 6 minutes
and it too alternates between 87B and 88B.

Fred Pot
SeaCAS, LLC

AIS hardware and software
 

He didn't say "USB hub". He said "serial/usb adapters". I've had problems with them -- the
first one I got didn't support Break (which is not a character, but rather pulling the
computer's Data In line low (or was it high) for an extended period of time (and of course
the first thing the box I bought it to use with needed was ..... a break, to wake it up.

Some of them don't support some of the other obscure corners of the serial port protocol.



"Larry" wrote in message ...
Meindert Sprang wrote:
"Dick Locke" wrote in message
...
There seem to be two price points..single channel, serial only for
about $190 from Milltech or dual channel USB capable from Safe Passage
for around $800. I'm thinking single channel is adequate but I my sole
serial port is occupied by the GPS and I've had problems in the past
with the serial/usb adapters. Anyone know of a single channel USB
output receiver?

You could use a MiniPlex-Lite, a small NMEA multiplexer with a USB interface
and one high speed input for your AIS receiver next to two normal NMEA
inputs (GPS, etc). And it comes without the typical problems found with
serial/usb adapters. This box simply works.

Meindert
www.shipmodul.com

Meindert,

No flame intended, really! What are the typical problems with USB hubs?
Thanks!
--

Larry
rapp at lmr dot com

AIS hardware and software
 

Fred Pot wrote in
ups.com:

On Sep 16, 2:57 pm, Dick Locke wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the best way to install an AIS system in our
cruising sailboat. It's largely used coastally off Mexico with
occasional longer passages of a few hundred miles. Night passages
are common.

Hardware questions:

There seem to be two price points..single channel, serial only for
about $190 from Milltech or dual channel USB capable from Safe
Passage for around $800. I'm thinking single channel is adequate but
I my sole serial port is occupied by the GPS and I've had problems in
the past with the serial/usb adapters. Anyone know of a single
channel USB output receiver?

I have an unused "emergency" VHF antenna on a pole about 12 feet
above the water. I could use that for the AIS or I could use a
splitter on the masthead antenna. I'm not inclined to do anything to
reduce VHF reception. Can someone tell me the formula for VHF "line
of sight" distance?

Software questions

I'm currently using MAptech Offshore Navigator which doesn't have AIS
support. I'd have to upgrade to their newer system or else buy
another. Fugawi seems attractive. I have a whole bunch of Maptech
formatted charts but Fugawi seems to be able to handle these OK.

In either case, I would lose my "tracks" of past passages. Those are
especially handy off the Mexican coast because the charts are hand
drawn in 1888 or so and the shore is a few miles further east than
the charts show...except when it isn't. Finding a way into an
anchorage or around a rock once during daylight gives me a track I
can follow next time. Maptech suggests converting tracks to routes,
but I haven't looked into that yet. Does anyone know how to get the
track files out of Maptech's program? If they have lat longs I might
be able to bring them into the new program.

I also think I could keep the old Maptech program and switch it on
when following a past track is essential. I wonder if I could run
both simultaneously and bring the old program on screen.when I need
it.

Any comments or advice? I'm not at the boat now so can't experiment
very much.

Thanks
Dick Locke
S/V Tanoshii

Full disclosu I have an ax to grind. I am with SeaCAS. We sell
dual- band receivers. Our receivers used to cost about $800 but are
now on sale for $499 and we include a USB power/data cable which makes
connection to a PC or Mac very easy. Also our connectors are
watertight and we offer optional "Direct-Connect" cable for FURUNO and
Raymarine. To circumvent Raymarine's limitation of a single NMEA port
on their C and E series we offer a very capable Multiplexer for $330
(see
http://www.seacas.com/oscomm/product...3&products_id=
47).

I maintain that single band receivers are too slow to be used for
collision avoidance. AIS information is transmitted alternating
between VHF Channel 87B and 88B. Single band recievers receive only
half of the information. Their update rate is twice what it should be.
In a close quarters crossing situation you want the best available
information to help you decide how to get out of a big ship's way. You
may have to wait as long as 12 minutes to find out a ships name so you
can hail it on VHF to make assing arrangements because the name (along
with other statis and voyage information) is sent our every 6 minutes
and it too alternates between 87B and 88B.

Fred Pot
SeaCAS, LLC


I have a single band Miltech receiver and agree that perhaps there's an
issue with not receiving the name of the ship for 12 minutes instead of
6 minutes. But who cares? Course data is transmitted every few
seconds. Until recently we only had radar and never knew the name of
the ship. With AIS we have a much better chance of knowing lots of
details and knowing them well before they get WAY too close. While I'd
love to know the name of the vessel that I'm on a collision course with,
I would much rather know in advance if and when we were going to
collide. I get all of that with single band AIS.

What I really want is a reasonably priced AIS transponder. No offense,
but this is not rocket science. Basically all that you need to do is
transmit position and course information and occasionally your ship
info. I suspect that you'll see reasonably priced units on the market in
a short period of time.


-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

AIS hardware and software
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Meindert,

No flame intended, really! What are the typical problems with USB hubs?
Thanks!

I suspect you mean serial/usb converters?

Many of them don't have an internal serial number so the created com port
changes when you plug it into a different USB port. All of them support the
M$ Plug & Play support for serial ports which means Windows thinks your GPS
is a mouse. Many of them don't work as supplied, wrong drivers and that sort
of stuff.

If you really meant USB hubs, then I don't know of any problems with them
apart from being able to be powered from 12V or 24V.

Meindert

AIS hardware and software
 

Meindert Sprang wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message
...
Meindert,

No flame intended, really! What are the typical problems with USB hubs?
Thanks!

I suspect you mean serial/usb converters?

Many of them don't have an internal serial number so the created com port
changes when you plug it into a different USB port. All of them support the
M$ Plug & Play support for serial ports which means Windows thinks your GPS
is a mouse. Many of them don't work as supplied, wrong drivers and that sort
of stuff.

If you really meant USB hubs, then I don't know of any problems with them
apart from being able to be powered from 12V or 24V.

Meindert



Sorry, I read it wrong. No, I did mean hubs. I'm well aware of the
problems with some USB - serial converters. I seem to have a problem
with my workstation. It has 2 separate USB outputs, plus a 4 port USB
card. Each of the two ports is plugged into 4 port hubs. The only
problem I have is that some devices are not recognized. (I use two
printers, flat plate and negative scanners, plus connections for the
Garmin 530, Motorola cellular phone, Western Digital "My Book", several
cameras, etc.)
--

Larry
rapp at lmr dot com

AIS hardware and software
 

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:18:15 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Meindert,

No flame intended, really! What are the typical problems with USB hubs?
Thanks!

I suspect you mean serial/usb converters?

Many of them don't have an internal serial number so the created com port
changes when you plug it into a different USB port. All of them support the
M$ Plug & Play support for serial ports which means Windows thinks your GPS
is a mouse. Many of them don't work as supplied, wrong drivers and that sort
of stuff.

If you really meant USB hubs, then I don't know of any problems with them
apart from being able to be powered from 12V or 24V.

Meindert



Amen to all that. My computer also thinks my serial-ported GPS is a
mouse if I boot the computer up with the GPS on. (I'm 99% sure it's
serial ported, if I was anywhere near the boat I'd go double-check
before sending this...)

I'm running XP home, original basic edition with no updates because
the boat computer isn't allowed to get on the Intenet. I guess it's
time to buy an update disc.

AIS hardware and software
 

You should really get a dual-channel RX since You want to use it for
navigation. You will get updates twice as often, which is very important
considering the new ClassB trasponders for smaller vessels only transmit
positions every 30 seconds. That means only every minute if You only have
one channel. I promise You, in that last minute You will want to know who
is turning where...

I can recommend the SR162, also available from Milltech at $439. The SR
series are made by a Chinese manufacturer but with engineering help from a
Swedish team of AIS engineers which has improved the product a lot.

The new ClassB transponders are not yet FCC approved but are available in
Europe for around $1200.

/Marcus

AIS hardware and software
 

On Oct 3, 1:05 pm, Ulrich G. Kliegis wrote:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:39:56 -0400, "MarcusAA"
wrote in rec.boats.electronics:

The new ClassB transponders are not yet FCC approved but are available in
Europe for around $1200.

If you speak of the SR transponders - they are not yet approved, and I
was informed that they will get impounded when found by british
authorities on a ship visited by them in a harbour or in their waters.

I am pretty sure, though, that the joint efforts of the chinese and
swedish egineers will get that solved. Other brands are available
already. Be sure to have the certificate of the BSH, the only approved
certifier worldwide so far, confirmed by your dealer.

Regards,

U.

I can recommend the SafePassageAIS 100 Dual-Band Receiver at $499
(until Monday Oct 8th). A little more expensive than the MillTech but
with a USB power data cable and with water tight connectors.

Fred Pot
SeaCAS, LLC