Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Peter Hendra wrote:
Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra

No.

Chuck

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Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Peter,

You got one answer with no explanation.

A circuit breaker is a switch. - Period (Some used in vehicles are self
-resetting, they are still switches but with no manual control.)

The features note means that it is designed to be used as a manually
controlled disconnect under load. The manufacturer believes this device
can do that safely.

This is largely a moot point in your case. The windless switches are
the devices you use to control the actual motor. You will not be doing
that if your arrangement is at all like any I've ever seen.

The only time you will use this as a switch is if you choose to
disconnect the feed to the actual switching circuit for the windless.

Circuit breakers used to be certified to interrupt the current at rated
load or greater only five times, and came with instructions to replace
them if they had been tripped or manually operated more than twice.

Then along came the category called Switch Duty Breakers (SWB). These
are certified to pass UL, NFPA and NMEA requirements on matter how many
times they are cycled. Most still come with a note to replace if they
are opened by overcurrent - this is because the contact might be damaged.

I am paranoid (I find it serves me well) so I put Switch Duty Breakers
in my shop wiring to control the two banks of lights. Though I had
every intention of putting a pair of 3-way switches by the two doors, I
have been turning the lights on out there at least once a day for
fifteen years. When I tested them last (not something a normal person
can do), both were still within specification. I will put in the above
mentioned switches someday - if I don't kill my self getting to the
breaker box in the dark before that.

Matt Colie
Yachtman's Technical Support
www.yachtek.com



Peter Hendra wrote:
Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Matt Colie wrote:
Peter,

You got one answer with no explanation.

A circuit breaker is a switch. - Period (Some used in vehicles are self
-resetting, they are still switches but with no manual control.)

The features note means that it is designed to be used as a manually
controlled disconnect under load. The manufacturer believes this device
can do that safely.

This is largely a moot point in your case. The windless switches are
the devices you use to control the actual motor. You will not be doing
that if your arrangement is at all like any I've ever seen.

The only time you will use this as a switch is if you choose to
disconnect the feed to the actual switching circuit for the windless.

Circuit breakers used to be certified to interrupt the current at rated
load or greater only five times, and came with instructions to replace
them if they had been tripped or manually operated more than twice.

Then along came the category called Switch Duty Breakers (SWB). These
are certified to pass UL, NFPA and NMEA requirements on matter how many
times they are cycled. Most still come with a note to replace if they
are opened by overcurrent - this is because the contact might be damaged.

I am paranoid (I find it serves me well) so I put Switch Duty Breakers
in my shop wiring to control the two banks of lights. Though I had
every intention of putting a pair of 3-way switches by the two doors, I
have been turning the lights on out there at least once a day for
fifteen years. When I tested them last (not something a normal person
can do), both were still within specification. I will put in the above
mentioned switches someday - if I don't kill my self getting to the
breaker box in the dark before that.

Matt Colie
Yachtman's Technical Support
www.yachtek.com



Peter Hendra wrote:
Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra


Why not ask Blue Sea how many switch
operations you can expect their breaker
to perform with your anchor winch load?
Then you'll have an answer you can rely
on. It goes without saying that you'll
be installing the breaker in what is
euphemistically considered a "damp
environment". Be sure to mention that to
Blue Sea, so as to discourage
presentation of results from laboratory
testing in a pristine environment.

As a general rule, combining functions
tends to result in compromises to one or
more of the functions. The links below
examine this issue for breakers as
switches, but not specifically for Blue
Sea products.

You obviously are aware of that and are
questioning Blue Sea's advertising.
You're just asking the wrong people: not
one of us on this group has probably
developed credible statistical data on
Blue Sea breaker failure rates as a
function of number of cycles of
operation. Their web site seems mute on
the subject also. Some breakers have
been designed to perform well as
switches and manufacturers often quote
performance data to support their claims.

http://www.etk.ee.kth.se/personal/li...eSubmitted.pdf

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-CBsVsSwitches.html
Using Circuit Breakers as Switches

Good luck!

Chuck

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

I suppose that I should have been more specific. What I intended to
convey was that I already have a heavy duty switch that cuts off the
power to the anchor circuit. I did not mean that I would use it as an
"up" or "down" switch. I was wondering whether I could use the breaker
as an on/off switch to control the power from the batteries

Thanks
Peter

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:21:48 -0400, Chuck
wrote:

Matt Colie wrote:
Peter,

You got one answer with no explanation.

A circuit breaker is a switch. - Period (Some used in vehicles are self
-resetting, they are still switches but with no manual control.)

The features note means that it is designed to be used as a manually
controlled disconnect under load. The manufacturer believes this device
can do that safely.

This is largely a moot point in your case. The windless switches are
the devices you use to control the actual motor. You will not be doing
that if your arrangement is at all like any I've ever seen.

The only time you will use this as a switch is if you choose to
disconnect the feed to the actual switching circuit for the windless.

Circuit breakers used to be certified to interrupt the current at rated
load or greater only five times, and came with instructions to replace
them if they had been tripped or manually operated more than twice.

Then along came the category called Switch Duty Breakers (SWB). These
are certified to pass UL, NFPA and NMEA requirements on matter how many
times they are cycled. Most still come with a note to replace if they
are opened by overcurrent - this is because the contact might be damaged.

I am paranoid (I find it serves me well) so I put Switch Duty Breakers
in my shop wiring to control the two banks of lights. Though I had
every intention of putting a pair of 3-way switches by the two doors, I
have been turning the lights on out there at least once a day for
fifteen years. When I tested them last (not something a normal person
can do), both were still within specification. I will put in the above
mentioned switches someday - if I don't kill my self getting to the
breaker box in the dark before that.

Matt Colie
Yachtman's Technical Support
www.yachtek.com



Peter Hendra wrote:
Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra


Why not ask Blue Sea how many switch
operations you can expect their breaker
to perform with your anchor winch load?
Then you'll have an answer you can rely
on. It goes without saying that you'll
be installing the breaker in what is
euphemistically considered a "damp
environment". Be sure to mention that to
Blue Sea, so as to discourage
presentation of results from laboratory
testing in a pristine environment.

As a general rule, combining functions
tends to result in compromises to one or
more of the functions. The links below
examine this issue for breakers as
switches, but not specifically for Blue
Sea products.

You obviously are aware of that and are
questioning Blue Sea's advertising.
You're just asking the wrong people: not
one of us on this group has probably
developed credible statistical data on
Blue Sea breaker failure rates as a
function of number of cycles of
operation. Their web site seems mute on
the subject also. Some breakers have
been designed to perform well as
switches and manufacturers often quote
performance data to support their claims.

http://www.etk.ee.kth.se/personal/li...eSubmitted.pdf

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-CBsVsSwitches.html
Using Circuit Breakers as Switches

Good luck!

Chuck

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Peter Hendra wrote:
I suppose that I should have been more specific. What I intended to
convey was that I already have a heavy duty switch that cuts off the
power to the anchor circuit. I did not mean that I would use it as an
"up" or "down" switch. I was wondering whether I could use the breaker
as an on/off switch to control the power from the batteries

Thanks
Peter


Thanks for the clarification, Peter. It
really doesn't change anything though.
The point is that the more often you
switch a breaker on or off, the greater
the chance of failure. If you do it once
a week, the breaker may outlive your
boat. If you do it several times a day,
then depending on the breaker design and
a whole lot of other stuff, it may fail
before your boat does. Switches, on the
other hand, will usually sustain many
more operation cycles before failure.

Keep in mind that circuit breaker
deterioration and/or failure may not
even be evident in its use as a switch!
For all anyone knows, half the breakers
now in boats may not function in
accordance with their original
specifications. Who ever tests them?

For anything more specific, I think you
might want to consult Blue Sea.

In the end, it is all economics, broadly
defined.

Chuck

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
...
| I suppose that I should have been more specific. What I intended to
| convey was that I already have a heavy duty switch that cuts off the
| power to the anchor circuit. I did not mean that I would use it as an
| "up" or "down" switch. I was wondering whether I could use the breaker
| as an on/off switch to control the power from the batteries
|
| Thanks
| Peter
|
| On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:21:48 -0400, Chuck
| wrote:
|
| Matt Colie wrote:
| Peter,
|
| You got one answer with no explanation.
|
| A circuit breaker is a switch. - Period (Some used in vehicles are
self
| -resetting, they are still switches but with no manual control.)
|
| The features note means that it is designed to be used as a manually
| controlled disconnect under load. The manufacturer believes this
device
| can do that safely.
|
| This is largely a moot point in your case. The windless switches are
| the devices you use to control the actual motor. You will not be doing
| that if your arrangement is at all like any I've ever seen.
|
| The only time you will use this as a switch is if you choose to
| disconnect the feed to the actual switching circuit for the windless.
|
| Circuit breakers used to be certified to interrupt the current at rated
| load or greater only five times, and came with instructions to replace
| them if they had been tripped or manually operated more than twice.
|
| Then along came the category called Switch Duty Breakers (SWB). These
| are certified to pass UL, NFPA and NMEA requirements on matter how many
| times they are cycled. Most still come with a note to replace if they
| are opened by overcurrent - this is because the contact might be
damaged.
|
| I am paranoid (I find it serves me well) so I put Switch Duty Breakers
| in my shop wiring to control the two banks of lights. Though I had
| every intention of putting a pair of 3-way switches by the two doors, I
| have been turning the lights on out there at least once a day for
| fifteen years. When I tested them last (not something a normal person
| can do), both were still within specification. I will put in the above
| mentioned switches someday - if I don't kill my self getting to the
| breaker box in the dark before that.
|
| Matt Colie
| Yachtman's Technical Support
| www.yachtek.com
|
|
|
| Peter Hendra wrote:
| Larry,
| I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
| Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.
|
| Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
| circuit breaker function into one unit"
|
| Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?
|
| cheers
| Peter Hendra
|
|
| Why not ask Blue Sea how many switch
| operations you can expect their breaker
| to perform with your anchor winch load?
| Then you'll have an answer you can rely
| on. It goes without saying that you'll
| be installing the breaker in what is
| euphemistically considered a "damp
| environment". Be sure to mention that to
| Blue Sea, so as to discourage
| presentation of results from laboratory
| testing in a pristine environment.
|
| As a general rule, combining functions
| tends to result in compromises to one or
| more of the functions. The links below
| examine this issue for breakers as
| switches, but not specifically for Blue
| Sea products.
|
| You obviously are aware of that and are
| questioning Blue Sea's advertising.
| You're just asking the wrong people: not
| one of us on this group has probably
| developed credible statistical data on
| Blue Sea breaker failure rates as a
| function of number of cycles of
| operation. Their web site seems mute on
| the subject also. Some breakers have
| been designed to perform well as
| switches and manufacturers often quote
| performance data to support their claims.
|
|
http://www.etk.ee.kth.se/personal/li...4TommieSubmitt
ed.pdf
|
| http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-CBsVsSwitches.html
| Using Circuit Breakers as Switches
|
| Good luck!
|
| Chuck
|
| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
| ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----


On my previous boat I've used one of these as my anchor main switch to
isolate from the batteries for 10 years without a problem. Of course it is
not used to switch the high amps load for the anchor winch. It is used as an
isolation switch only. A load switch and an isolation switch are 2 different
things. Having said that, all the switches on the distribution/ switchboard
were also combined switches/circuit brakers. I never had a problem using
them for switching small loads (e.g. to turn the cabin lighting on or off).
Wout

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

On Apr 16, 10:21 am, Chuck wrote:
Matt Colie wrote:
Peter,

You got one answer with no explanation.

A circuit breaker is a switch. - Period (Some used in vehicles are self
-resetting, they are still switches but with no manual control.)

The features note means that it is designed to be used as a manually
controlled disconnect under load. The manufacturer believes this device
can do that safely.

This is largely a moot point in your case. The windless switches are
the devices you use to control the actual motor. You will not be doing
that if your arrangement is at all like any I've ever seen.

The only time you will use this as a switch is if you choose to
disconnect the feed to the actual switching circuit for the windless.

Circuit breakers used to be certified to interrupt the current at rated
load or greater only five times, and came with instructions to replace
them if they had been tripped or manually operated more than twice.

Then along came the category called Switch Duty Breakers (SWB). These
are certified to pass UL, NFPA and NMEA requirements on matter how many
times they are cycled. Most still come with a note to replace if they
are opened by overcurrent - this is because the contact might be damaged.

I am paranoid (I find it serves me well) so I put Switch Duty Breakers
in my shop wiring to control the two banks of lights. Though I had
every intention of putting a pair of 3-way switches by the two doors, I
have been turning the lights on out there at least once a day for
fifteen years. When I tested them last (not something a normal person
can do), both were still within specification. I will put in the above
mentioned switches someday - if I don't kill my self getting to the
breaker box in the dark before that.

Matt Colie
Yachtman's Technical Support
www.yachtek.com

Peter Hendra wrote:
Larry,
I have jusy puchased a "Blue Seal" brand - "Bussman series High Amp
Circuit Breaker" - 125 Amps; for my anchor winch circuit.

Stated on the packaging under "featuires" is "combines switching and
circuit breaker function into one unit"

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra

Why not ask Blue Sea how many switch
operations you can expect their breaker
to perform with your anchor winch load?
Then you'll have an answer you can rely
on. It goes without saying that you'll
be installing the breaker in what is
euphemistically considered a "damp
environment". Be sure to mention that to
Blue Sea, so as to discourage
presentation of results from laboratory
testing in a pristine environment.

As a general rule, combining functions
tends to result in compromises to one or
more of the functions. The links below
examine this issue for breakers as
switches, but not specifically for Blue
Sea products.

You obviously are aware of that and are
questioning Blue Sea's advertising.
You're just asking the wrong people: not
one of us on this group has probably
developed credible statistical data on
Blue Sea breaker failure rates as a
function of number of cycles of
operation. Their web site seems mute on
the subject also. Some breakers have
been designed to perform well as
switches and manufacturers often quote
performance data to support their claims.

http://www.etk.ee.kth.se/personal/li...PMAPS04TommieS...

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-CBsVsSwitches.html
Using Circuit Breakers as Switches

Good luck!

Chuck

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

You may get the answers you want regarding breaker statistics from
Blue Sea Systems but, since they don't manufacture them, Carling may
be the better source. While on the subject of circuit protection,
it's worth mentioning the DC Circuit Wizard at their website. They
just put on their site and it appears to be a good tool. Although it
helps to have some technical knowledge to answer all the questions
accurately I think this will help many do-it-yourselfers, based on the
number of questions on circuit protection and wire sizing I see at
various sailing groups.
Tim

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra



Yeah, it's ok. You won't own it long enough to wear it out. All the
sailboats I sail on use all the breakers as switches, anyways. They seem
fine. Make sure you have 125A WIRES to go with it....(c;

Larry
--

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Chuck wrote in news:1176743785_1169
@sp12lax.superfeed.net:

Thanks for the clarification, Peter. It
really doesn't change anything though.
The point is that the more often you
switch a breaker on or off, the greater
the chance of failure. If you do it once
a week, the breaker may outlive your
boat. If you do it several times a day,
then depending on the breaker design and
a whole lot of other stuff, it may fail
before your boat does. Switches, on the
other hand, will usually sustain many
more operation cycles before failure.



I disagree. The more you move them, the less likely you are going to
find them inoperative from being corroded up by the sea air and open.
Using them as a power switch, the regular movement of the wiping contact
surfaces and a little arcing on the DC circuit under load, keeps the
contacts clean and free of interfering corrosion that cause them to
nuisance-trip because the corroded contacts get hotter than normal,
causing the bimetal strip to trip the breaker when nothing is really
wrong.

I know lots of 60s sailboats that have no power switches for any of their
DC lights other than to flip the breakers on and off for everything.
Those breakers are over 40 years old and STILL functioning fine....from
being constantly cleaned by the arcing and metal scraping across metal as
they are opened and closed.

I DO wish the boat breaker companies would spend a little more money on a
better product and the damned boat manufacturers would stop putting
electrical components in FLAMMABLE WOODEN BOXES, not fire/flameproof
enclosures. You're not allowed to install the breakers in your house on
a piece of plastic or plywood and just screw it into the sheetrock. Why
is this acceptable by the standards authorities for installation in a
damned boat?! ALL boats should have NEMA-approved AC and DC breaker
panels in proper NEMA panel boxes. Hell, just carve out a hole in the
mahogany and screw a double AC outlet to it with some wood screws. You
all know exactly where these AC and DC outlets are installed with NO
HANDIBOX to prevent fires from overcurrents. I'll rant about the
FLAMMABLE WIREWAYS another time....I wanna see CONDUIT, DAMMIT!

Damned cheap boat crap.....(d^:)

Larry
--

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Thanks for this Chuck,
What you say makes sense. I shall thus retain the switch.

By the way, do you know how "Charles" became "Chuck"? We have always
wondered but nobody has been able to explain so far - a ridiculous
query I know, but somethings just irk you.
cheers
Peter

Thanks for the clarification, Peter. It
really doesn't change anything though.
The point is that the more often you
switch a breaker on or off, the greater
the chance of failure. If you do it once
a week, the breaker may outlive your
boat. If you do it several times a day,
then depending on the breaker design and
a whole lot of other stuff, it may fail
before your boat does. Switches, on the
other hand, will usually sustain many
more operation cycles before failure.

Keep in mind that circuit breaker
deterioration and/or failure may not
even be evident in its use as a switch!
For all anyone knows, half the breakers
now in boats may not function in
accordance with their original
specifications. Who ever tests them?

For anything more specific, I think you
might want to consult Blue Sea.

In the end, it is all economics, broadly
defined.

Chuck

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:48:50 +0000, Larry wrote:

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

Question: Is it good practice to use it as a switch?

cheers
Peter Hendra



Yeah, it's ok. You won't own it long enough to wear it out. All the
sailboats I sail on use all the breakers as switches, anyways. They seem
fine. Make sure you have 125A WIRES to go with it....(c;

Larry
Thanks again Larry and others.

I shall certainly miss having instant access to expertise such as
yours when i set off again - No, I'm not being patronising. I only
wish it was available when i built my boat.

regards
Peter

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Peter Hendra wrote:
Thanks for this Chuck,
What you say makes sense. I shall thus retain the switch.

By the way, do you know how "Charles" became "Chuck"? We have always
wondered but nobody has been able to explain so far - a ridiculous
query I know, but somethings just irk you.
cheers
Peter

google = name chuck origin

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Chuck

The boy's name Chuck \ch(u)-ck\. Pet form of Charles (Old German) "free
man". Originally a nickname from a term for endearment (from Middle
English "chukken", meaning "to chuck"). Chuck has 1 variant form: Chuckie.

Jack

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

I shall certainly miss having instant access to expertise such as
yours when i set off again - No, I'm not being patronising. I only
wish it was available when i built my boat.

r

Too bad for both of us. I've been to Oz, but never to NZ or Tasmania. I'd
probably be hard to get rid of and they'd have to deport me....

Larry
--

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:15:20 +0000, Larry wrote:

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

I shall certainly miss having instant access to expertise such as
yours when i set off again - No, I'm not being patronising. I only
wish it was available when i built my boat.

r

Too bad for both of us. I've been to Oz, but never to NZ or Tasmania. I'd
probably be hard to get rid of and they'd have to deport me....

Larry

Yes, but you'd have to learn English and to spell correctly, such as
"programme" and "colour" as well as learning the sensible and easier
metric system. But, you would get more litres in your gallon. Bloody
Gallons! I normally use about 2 x 5 litre cans of antifouling. Have to
do a calculation to order the stuff here in Trinidad and to ascertain
the coverage. Ordered a backstay with the eye to eye measurement in
sensible millimetres - don't have a tape with feet and inches - man
had to unroll his tape, get me to mark the metric length and transpose
it to the other side in imperial. Ridiculous system of measurement.

If you like to make things difficult, why don't you use cubits as a
measure of length - these are of differing lengths - The Egyptian
cubit, the royal cubit, the Assyrian cubit, the Babylonian cubit and
so on.

cheers
Peter

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

Yes, but you'd have to learn English and to spell correctly, such as
"programme" and "colour" as well as learning the sensible and easier
metric system. But, you would get more litres in your gallon. Bloody
Gallons!

I just bought four new tyres for my lorry. Is that OK?

I had to learn proper English back when I drove Morris Minors in the 60's.
One was a drophead coupe with a pointy bonnet and rounded boot that looked
like something out of the 1930's. Morris Minor 1000s were great motorcars.

Larry
--
America will convert to litres, some day. Instead of paying $3/gallon for
petrol, almost overnight, it will be $3/litre for petrol. Just watch it
happen....

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Be glad he had your do that exercise with the metric tape. That's much safer than counting on
someone who doesn't do it regulary to do the math right.


"Peter Hendra" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:15:20 +0000, Larry wrote:

Peter Hendra wrote in
m:

I shall certainly miss having instant access to expertise such as
yours when i set off again - No, I'm not being patronising. I only
wish it was available when i built my boat.

r

Too bad for both of us. I've been to Oz, but never to NZ or Tasmania. I'd
probably be hard to get rid of and they'd have to deport me....

Larry

Yes, but you'd have to learn English and to spell correctly, such as
"programme" and "colour" as well as learning the sensible and easier
metric system. But, you would get more litres in your gallon. Bloody
Gallons! I normally use about 2 x 5 litre cans of antifouling. Have to
do a calculation to order the stuff here in Trinidad and to ascertain
the coverage. Ordered a backstay with the eye to eye measurement in
sensible millimetres - don't have a tape with feet and inches - man
had to unroll his tape, get me to mark the metric length and transpose
it to the other side in imperial. Ridiculous system of measurement.

If you like to make things difficult, why don't you use cubits as a
measure of length - these are of differing lengths - The Egyptian
cubit, the royal cubit, the Assyrian cubit, the Babylonian cubit and
so on.

cheers
Peter

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:30:12 +0000, Larry wrote:

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

Yes, but you'd have to learn English and to spell correctly, such as
"programme" and "colour" as well as learning the sensible and easier
metric system. But, you would get more litres in your gallon. Bloody
Gallons!

I just bought four new tyres for my lorry. Is that OK?

I had to learn proper English back when I drove Morris Minors in the 60's.
One was a drophead coupe with a pointy bonnet and rounded boot that looked
like something out of the 1930's. Morris Minor 1000s were great motorcars.

Larry

Sorry Larry,
Nice try but I'm afraid that we don 't have any "lorries" - the
English have those. We only have "trucks".

On topic (yes, I know - for once); I bought 3 cans/tins (with the self
sealing mechanism that was invented by a NEW ZEALAND Post Office clerk
- pronounced correctly as Cl- Ar-k, not "Clurk" while the USA was
still doing its splendid isolation thing in the 1890s.

The Trinidad company gave me the price in gallons, the coverage in
gallons and the antifouling paint in gallons. I calculated and
estimated 3 gallons. I received 3 "1 gallon" cans with the advice that
they contained " a bit more than a gallon" - actually 5 litres - and
priced accordingly but their rate was "per gallon - why didn't they
say so in the first place?

Larry, even with your appalling ability in both the spoken and written
English language, you would be very welcome in my country. You are the
type of American we like as opposed to the monied ones (not at all
sour grapes) who arrive to live due to the lifestyle etc and then set
about trying to change it to the busy lifestyle they "escaped" (to use
their word) from. "You Kiwis shoiuld do things like we do in the US of
A" and buying beach and lakeside properties and trying to restrict
public access despite the "Queen's chain".

You'd like it down there.

The only thing you may miss is that neither you nor your offspring
will be likely to be able to die in a patriotic fashion for your
country in the near future at least. We buy our oil in the norm al
manner without the loss of our lower socioeconomic group's lives.

cheers
peter

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:26:02 -0700, "Chuck Tribolet"
wrote:

Be glad he had your do that exercise with the metric tape. That's much safer than counting on
someone who doesn't do it regulary to do the math right.

Yes, you are quite right but I still can't understand the benefits of
staying with the old imperial system.

Probably better than the Australian farmers' method of counting sheep
and cattle (one, anudderone, anudderone, annudderone and so on) but so
much harder to calculate with.

cheers
Peter Hendra

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Peter said:
Larry, even with your appalling ability in both the spoken and written
English language, you would be very welcome in my country. You are the
type of American we like as opposed to the monied ones (not at all
sour grapes) who arrive to live due to the lifestyle etc and then set
about trying to change it to the busy lifestyle they "escaped" (to use
their word) from. "You Kiwis shoiuld do things like we do in the US of
A" and buying beach and lakeside properties and trying to restrict
public access despite the "Queen's chain".

We have the same thing here in South Carolina. Our sleepy little laid back
town has been invaded bny northerners that love the easy living and then get
bored and try to change everything to the way it was up north. If they were
so in love with that, why don't they go back there and leave us alone.
dammyankees....... I admit that I am a transplant, Cape Cod are expat, but
first arrived here 50 years ago and returned to settle in retirement.

Leanne

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

You'd like it down there.

The only thing you may miss is that neither you nor your offspring
will be likely to be able to die in a patriotic fashion for your
country in the near future at least. We buy our oil in the norm al
manner without the loss of our lower socioeconomic group's lives.


I believe I would. I lived in Tehran and worked for the Iranian Air
Force, building them their first full electronic calibration laboratory
back in 1978-79, leaving 28 days before the Shahanshah was deposed. I
grew tired of the automatic weapons fire waking me up so early in the
morning.

There was a huge T-34 Russian-made tank on our street, loaded and with
crew, the American Embassy warned us never to take pictures of. Those
idiots, obviously, didn't hold an Iranian Air Force ID card....like I
did...(c; I asked the officer in charge of the tank if I could take some
pictures. He said a firm "NO!"...then followed up with "You bring your
camera back tomorrow about noon." He didn't tell me why. Those little
Russian burp guns his men carried are very convincing! Next noon, I
showed up with my camera all loaded. The reason he didn't want me taking
pictures of his tank and men was THEY WERE NOT IN FULL DRESS UNIFORM and
the tank had not been properly cleaned for pictures...(c; I had the
photo lab make a little ring-bound photo book out of the best pictures.
I presented one to the American Embassy assistant to the assistant
something or other. The look on his face when he saw the picture of ME
driving the tank around the neighborhood (without crushing any cars, by
the way) was just so PRICELESS. I gave a photo book to each tank crewman
and the officer in charge to thank them. I was always welcome at any
Iranian Army tank after that....a pretty safe haven if I got into
trouble. Russians make HUGE tanks....two lanes wide! Driving with
levers is very interesting with the big diesel roaring away behind you.
They wouldn't let me fire off a round at one of the taxi drivers, though,
even though they hated them as much as I did...(c;

The other Americans I worked with lived very isolated lives. I'd come to
work and tell of what little restaurant we ate Iranian food at last
night, meeting Iranians who never met an American before, always a great
joy while living in their country. Most Iranians thought we either lived
like John Wayne on a ranch in the 1870s fighting wild Indians...or lived
like Luke Skywalker in Star Wars, which had lines running around THREE
blocks waiting to get into the theatres (4 showed it at once) to see it.

I have many Iranian friends here in Charleston who have escaped Islamic
revolution. It's the only way I get to practice my Farsi, I learned
mostly from the Iranian Homafars (AF warrant officers) that worked in the
lab. Even at work I was not their usual American contractor. I ate
breakfast in the Army mess tent on the end of our building with the
drafted conscripts guarding the base. Breakfast was a pocket bread
stuffed with beef, fried onions and a sweet sauce I could never pry the
recipe of out of the mess sgt. This fraternization with the troops also
got me assigned to take electronics and parts and food out to
SIGINT/ELINT monitoring sites on the Iraqi border with those troops. The
other Americans were simply not invited. We had new Chevy Blazers with
huge tires to cover the awful roads, or non-roads, up in the mountains
along the border. The roads were never built because Iran was afraid of
Iraqi invasion with Saddam at the trigger. Don't say that I blamed them.
I'm one of the few Americans who hunted Ibex (mountain sheep) with an M16
I know. We also killed hundreds of wild dogs that attacked US in packs!
It wasn't altogether safe on those trips. The Iranian countryside is one
of the most beautiful places I've ever been....and simply HUGE! Most
Americans I meet have no idea that Iran is as big as the USA, East of the
Mississippi River. Vast areas are totally pristine and uninhabited in
6000 years.

By the way, I'd like to thank you, as a New Zealander, for the food and
booze served at your embassy parties in Tehran while I was there. I
wasn't allowed inside the American Embassy unless I was on official
business. But, my NZ girlfriend, Ann (which in Farsi means **** to
everyone's joy), always got us invitations to some really nice events,
there...or at the Oz Embassy....or the British Embassy. These girls
worked for Iran Air as English teachers for their pilots and crews. I
told them all that was just a transparent front as they all worked for
MI5 or 6 as British Spies...(c; I don't think English teachers could get
invited to Embassy parties with the elite.

I'd go back to Iran, by the way, as soon as invited by a new, more sane,
government. Iranians don't hate Americans, like most people across the
planet. They hate my Illuminati-controlled World Government. Me, too!

Larry
--

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Hi Larry,
Thanks for providing this further insight despite the heinous sin of
being completely off topic. For those that are not interested, it is
not compulsory reading. If one is not interested in Icom 710s. one
merely skips that posting.

What you have written further strengthens my belief that techos are
far more interesting people to be with. Though my normal role is as a
technical project manager which often extends into the business
management realm, it is a long time since I cut code or popped in a
circuit board. I have found over the years that really good techos, in
any field, have a number of similar personal qualities that make them
good at what they do and can also make them recognisable as strange
or nurdish to "normal" people.

Generally (and off the top of my head) these a
- enthusiastic about their field
- willing to share and impart their expertise to others
- honest and unafraid to admit they don't know something - but usually
will proceed to find out, find a solution or recommend someone who
does know.
- don't play office politics and cannot anyway.
- usually have another interest or expertise in a completely unrelated
field or hobby
- many are good lateral thinkers
- are often considered socially inept by their "normal" peers where
their honesty is seen as naivity. Although, like everyone else, they
want to be accepted into the social group, they are often not
interested in the topics of chat.
- they are recognised as being "harmless' and usually non-judgemental

I could go on to create a more definitive list but it would take moire
thinking and reflection. The last however is probably the most
important in your Iranian experiences which would not have been the
only time you have enjoyed such treatment by 'locals'.

People generally wish to behave well to others and those soldiers
would have recognised that you were harmless, genuine and
non-patronising. You would have similar expereinces as a cruising
yachtee, and be accorded hospitality and see things more than most
because you do not play the predator/prey role that most others do
when meeting people.

In Malaysia, when I meet someone like you, which is unfortunately
rather rare, I introduce them to my friends and colleagues and pass
them on to other bases where they can get water, secure mooring etc as
well as being able to meet local people in their homes and be taken
places. Apart from hospitality which is part of my culture, it
benefits the locals who can meet someone interesting, and gain
experience of and confidence with, foreigners - especially the kids.

You should visit. They would like you and you could perhaps assist in
developing better radio comms in the tropics.

Yesterday afternoon the crane finally arrived to lift my mast.
Positioned with the jib above the boat, the hydraulics ceased to
function and by the time repairs were made, it was too late.
Resheduled - between 7am and 8am this morning (God willing of course)

cheers
Peter



On Thu, 03 May 2007 01:30:24 +0000, Larry wrote:

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

You'd like it down there.

The only thing you may miss is that neither you nor your offspring
will be likely to be able to die in a patriotic fashion for your
country in the near future at least. We buy our oil in the norm al
manner without the loss of our lower socioeconomic group's lives.


I believe I would. I lived in Tehran and worked for the Iranian Air
Force, building them their first full electronic calibration laboratory
back in 1978-79, leaving 28 days before the Shahanshah was deposed. I
grew tired of the automatic weapons fire waking me up so early in the
morning.

There was a huge T-34 Russian-made tank on our street, loaded and with
crew, the American Embassy warned us never to take pictures of. Those
idiots, obviously, didn't hold an Iranian Air Force ID card....like I
did...(c; I asked the officer in charge of the tank if I could take some
pictures. He said a firm "NO!"...then followed up with "You bring your
camera back tomorrow about noon." He didn't tell me why. Those little
Russian burp guns his men carried are very convincing! Next noon, I
showed up with my camera all loaded. The reason he didn't want me taking
pictures of his tank and men was THEY WERE NOT IN FULL DRESS UNIFORM and
the tank had not been properly cleaned for pictures...(c; I had the
photo lab make a little ring-bound photo book out of the best pictures.
I presented one to the American Embassy assistant to the assistant
something or other. The look on his face when he saw the picture of ME
driving the tank around the neighborhood (without crushing any cars, by
the way) was just so PRICELESS. I gave a photo book to each tank crewman
and the officer in charge to thank them. I was always welcome at any
Iranian Army tank after that....a pretty safe haven if I got into
trouble. Russians make HUGE tanks....two lanes wide! Driving with
levers is very interesting with the big diesel roaring away behind you.
They wouldn't let me fire off a round at one of the taxi drivers, though,
even though they hated them as much as I did...(c;

The other Americans I worked with lived very isolated lives. I'd come to
work and tell of what little restaurant we ate Iranian food at last
night, meeting Iranians who never met an American before, always a great
joy while living in their country. Most Iranians thought we either lived
like John Wayne on a ranch in the 1870s fighting wild Indians...or lived
like Luke Skywalker in Star Wars, which had lines running around THREE
blocks waiting to get into the theatres (4 showed it at once) to see it.

I have many Iranian friends here in Charleston who have escaped Islamic
revolution. It's the only way I get to practice my Farsi, I learned
mostly from the Iranian Homafars (AF warrant officers) that worked in the
lab. Even at work I was not their usual American contractor. I ate
breakfast in the Army mess tent on the end of our building with the
drafted conscripts guarding the base. Breakfast was a pocket bread
stuffed with beef, fried onions and a sweet sauce I could never pry the
recipe of out of the mess sgt. This fraternization with the troops also
got me assigned to take electronics and parts and food out to
SIGINT/ELINT monitoring sites on the Iraqi border with those troops. The
other Americans were simply not invited. We had new Chevy Blazers with
huge tires to cover the awful roads, or non-roads, up in the mountains
along the border. The roads were never built because Iran was afraid of
Iraqi invasion with Saddam at the trigger. Don't say that I blamed them.
I'm one of the few Americans who hunted Ibex (mountain sheep) with an M16
I know. We also killed hundreds of wild dogs that attacked US in packs!
It wasn't altogether safe on those trips. The Iranian countryside is one
of the most beautiful places I've ever been....and simply HUGE! Most
Americans I meet have no idea that Iran is as big as the USA, East of the
Mississippi River. Vast areas are totally pristine and uninhabited in
6000 years.

By the way, I'd like to thank you, as a New Zealander, for the food and
booze served at your embassy parties in Tehran while I was there. I
wasn't allowed inside the American Embassy unless I was on official
business. But, my NZ girlfriend, Ann (which in Farsi means **** to
everyone's joy), always got us invitations to some really nice events,
there...or at the Oz Embassy....or the British Embassy. These girls
worked for Iran Air as English teachers for their pilots and crews. I
told them all that was just a transparent front as they all worked for
MI5 or 6 as British Spies...(c; I don't think English teachers could get
invited to Embassy parties with the elite.

I'd go back to Iran, by the way, as soon as invited by a new, more sane,
government. Iranians don't hate Americans, like most people across the
planet. They hate my Illuminati-controlled World Government. Me, too!

Larry

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

Generally (and off the top of my head) these a
- enthusiastic about their field

There is only one field....it's electromagnetic...(c;...and it's mine!

- willing to share and impart their expertise to others

It allows me to wheedle my way aboard the finest yachts, eat gourmet food
and drink the best booze...(c; A captain I know just got a new Jenneau.
We'll be heading out with his credit card to the marine electronics
places very soon. Icom will smile.

- honest and unafraid to admit they don't know something - but usually
will proceed to find out, find a solution or recommend someone who
does know.

Oh, I can't STAND not knowing how something works or why I can't fix it!
It just drives me crazy. I'm a technician, not an engineer, to my
financial dismay. The Vietnam War caused it. They needed technicians
and metrologists....so..here I am. I'm the guy they used to turn the
unrepairable dogs over to that noone could fix. I shine on those
projects...(c;

- don't play office politics and cannot anyway.

It's why I'm now self-employed. Just point me to what's broke and get
the hell out of the way. I used to stay on the road, a long distance
from the office and its politicians. I hated to call them on the phone.

- usually have another interest or expertise in a completely unrelated
field or hobby

boats...clocks...parrots...old Mercedes diesels...internet

- many are good lateral thinkers
- are often considered socially inept by their "normal" peers where
their honesty is seen as naivity. Although, like everyone else, they
want to be accepted into the social group, they are often not
interested in the topics of chat.

True. But, I don't mind being totally alone, either.

- they are recognised as being "harmless' and usually non-judgemental


Ooops...I'm very judgemental...and quite vindictive. Ask Yamaha when
they tried to screw me on a new jetski. I'm not nice when attacked.


Larry
--

Ping Larry - Circuit Breakers
 

WaIIy wrote in
:

You might be judgemental (we all are), but you're not vindictive.

Wally



Why, thank you, Wally. I have many good friends, so I might not be as bad
as I think...(c;

Larry
--
A building cannot freefall into its own footprint without
skilled demolition.