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AIS anyone ?
Does someone knows what AIS is about and what kind of apparatus is required
to be able to display commercial trafic on the screen using Fugawi 4 ENC ? http://207.181.106.97/robin/news_ca_...otation_hr.jpg AIS - Automatic Identification System Plug in a third party AIS radio receiver to view commercial vessel traffic directly on top of your ENC or other chart. |
AIS is what commercial ships use instead of DSC to identify themselves.
If you get connect a Class D VHF radio to a newer chart plotter, you will see a cursor marking the position of a vessel broadcasting a DSC signal. Shippers have been doing this with AIS. I recently saw a manufacturer advertise an add on AIS receiver for about $600. I don't remember what other equipment you need to display the position information. "André Langevi" wrote in message ... Does someone knows what AIS is about and what kind of apparatus is required to be able to display commercial trafic on the screen using Fugawi 4 ENC ? http://207.181.106.97/robin/news_ca_...otation_hr.jpg AIS - Automatic Identification System Plug in a third party AIS radio receiver to view commercial vessel traffic directly on top of your ENC or other chart. |
"André Langevin" wrote in message ... Does someone knows what AIS is about and what kind of apparatus is required to be able to display commercial trafic on the screen using Fugawi 4 ENC ? http://207.181.106.97/robin/news_ca_...otation_hr.jpg AIS - Automatic Identification System Plug in a third party AIS radio receiver to view commercial vessel traffic directly on top of your ENC or other chart. André, Look here www.aislive.com, to see it live, or if you want to buy one, here is what it looks like http://www.allgadgets.co.uk/ag/produ...pf%5Fid=AG3928 regards, Philip. |
"William Andersen" wrote in
: I recently saw a manufacturer advertise an add on AIS receiver for about $600. My captain asked me where we'd put it when it's delivered from England....display and all....(sigh). It's my fault. I sent him the webpages....(c; I hear signals on the two channels in Charleston Harbor on my scanner, now. Can't wait to see how they look on the new AIS radar... -- Larry |
Quote:
You may have a look at www.yacht-ais.com Best regards Holger |
How many people here think AIS is a good idea? It just seems like jack-booted thuggary to require it on the bigger boats. Me's be thinkin thar be some mighty happy pirates. |
-Name Withheld For Security Concerns wrote in
: How many people here think AIS is a good idea? If it saves one sailor's life, if it saves one ship from a collision, it's got my vote. The ability to see the ship in the channel around that bend up ahead on a busy waterway, alone, is more than enough incentive to have it. It just seems like jack-booted thuggary to require it on the bigger boats. The ONLY way to get a shipping company to install anything that doesn't make a direct profit, regardless of its safety-at-sea function, is to make it MANDATORY. Ships sometimes seem "disposable" to them. We also require them to have certain other safety equipments, like lifeboats. That's thuggery, too. Compliance is the only way to get it installed in a reasonable length of time on the fleets. Me's be thinkin thar be some mighty happy pirates. I've thought of that, too. What a great way for terrorists to target a ship, having all this information about it right on their laptops. The pirates know where the ships are and when they leave, anyways. It's published in the newspaper in Charleston and doesn't seem to be a problem. We'll install the receiving system on Lionheart when it's delivered. The transponder will come, once shipping has their $4000 units and prices drop to something reasonable for a low-powered VHF FM transceiver and a ROM- based modem the hams have had for years. This system is a modification of APRS, Automatic Packet Reporting System, invented by Bob Bruninga, WB4APR, at the Naval Academy. He let the hams have it and it's really neat. AIS' ability to time slot, not just broadcast in the blind, is a vast improvement. Time slot is what your cellphone does to share channels with other cellphones. The cellphone has more digital technology than AIS at a much higher frequency, with much more miniturization. It sells for $250, which I figure would be a fair price for an AIS transponder that didn't have a display, just a NMEA 0183/NMEA-whatever-is-new data output jack so we can see the AIS targets on the various chartplotters/radar displays we already have installed in the boats' networks. The pleasure boat market for AIS is much larger than the APRS market for hams, so this price point should be doable. Of course, boaters will be paying double or triple this price because it will be a "marine" unit from your local marine ripoff theives....just like their plumbing parts. When these units become available at more reasonable prices, every yacht not engaged in drug smuggling should get one. Your little worthless radar reflector's blip on the containership's radar is NOTHING compared to your yacht showing up as a HARD target with all that information on the bridge of the containership's AIS system. How great that will be....instead of being run down in the middle of the night, of course. Price 'em cheap and make 'em mandatory for EVERY boat that leaves the harbor for sea is a great idea.....and make them RUN them all the time. Sure would make the ship's watches a lot easier. |
On 9/22/05 8:32 AM, in article , "Larry" wrote: -Name Withheld For Security Concerns wrote in : How many people here think AIS is a good idea? If it saves one sailor's life, if it saves one ship from a collision, it's got my vote. The ability to see the ship in the channel around that bend up ahead on a busy waterway, alone, is more than enough incentive to have it. Me's be thinkin thar be some mighty happy pirates. I've thought of that, too. What a great way for terrorists to target a ship, having all this information about it right on their laptops. The .... You make some good points Larry. I was mainly thinking of the piracy angle, but I guess the master could just turn off the transponder in areas where he has to be concerned. I thing the self organizing TDMA is kind of neat. I had no idea that HAMs created the system's. Prices will come down. -Regards |
-Name Withheld For Security Concerns wrote:
How many people here think AIS is a good idea? It just seems like jack-booted thuggary to require it on the bigger boats. Me's be thinkin thar be some mighty happy pirates. Arrrrr! We pirates don't need no AIS to find you! Blackbeard -- Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
Dave Baker wrote in
: http://smartradio.ebigchina.com/sdp/...369-74856.html Wow! Thanks for the information, Dave! I wonder if this isn't one of the companies the AIS inventors in Sweden are warning about. There seems to be a lot of unlicensed (read that royalty- free) manufacturing going on across the planet. I don't see any reference to FCC type-approval or acceptance for this VHF transmitter, so be informed without it and putting it on the air you are opening yourself up to $10K/day FCC prosecution and probably import prosecutions from the US Attorney for importing an unapproved unit....assuming, of course, you are in the USA. Other countries have similar, if not even more stringent, regulations to prevent competition with the bigboy NMEA members. Is it FCC approved that you know of? -- Larry |
-Name Withheld For Security Concerns wrote in
: Prices will come down. If this Chinese unit can be legally imported and used in our respective countries, it appears prices have dropped like an anchor the rode broke loose from...already...(c; -- Larry |
Dave Baker wrote in
: Around this neck of the woods I doubt that they care too much about the NMEA - the application we are looking at is for vessels that don't legally need AIS anyway, so we don't need to get Class approval, etc. We can just submit the units locally & get local approval & that's it - only takes a couple of weeks & not much money & we'll be out using them. I'm sure there is some kind of RADIO authority in Denmark, like our FCC, that decides what radios are and are not allowed on the air in Denmark, though, right? FCC doesn't care about NMEA, either. They DO care about RF interference from dirty transmitters, harmonic radiation, interference with other services which is why the radio will have to undergo certain tests and pass them to be allowed into the USA. I'm sure Denmark has similar regulations to protect its RF environment. -- Larry |
Jack Erbes wrote:
-Name Withheld For Security Concerns wrote: How many people here think AIS is a good idea? It just seems like jack-booted thuggary to require it on the bigger boats. Me's be thinkin thar be some mighty happy pirates. Arrrrr! We pirates don't need no AIS to find you! Blackbeard What would happen if I transmit on AIS that I'm USS Enterprise with 100 fighter planes??? -- Kees |
Kees Verruijt wrote:
snip What would happen if I transmit on AIS that I'm USS Enterprise with 100 fighter planes??? The pirates would already know the following from AIS: # Ship's position. # Ship's name. # Call sign. # MMSI number for tracking. # Speed, course, and heading. # Navigational status. # Type of ship. # Position sensor indication. # Antenna location. # Rate of turn. # Rudder angle. # Vessel's maximum draught. # Air draught. # Ship's length and breadth. # Angle of heel. # Angle of roll. # List of ports of call. # List of hazardous cargo. I guess if the pirates wanted to take you on it would be their choice, you would be a nice prize if they pulled it off a takeover. But it would be like an ant trying to rape an elephant. Navy vessels maintain a very thorough surface plot down in CIC. They are tracking the location projected course, CPA, etc., on everything that shows up on a number of different passive and active sensors. Hard to sneak up on them. Jack -- Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
Dave Baker wrote in
: In fact I tested out some AIS receivers from the same company in China that is selling the transceivers & found them to be better than the Nauticast units that we also use. Better range of reception. Dave This is great news. Thanks for any information you can give us on them. I'm sure lots of lurkers not posting are very interested in information about them. -- Larry |
Dave Baker wrote in
: well, apart from the USS Cole.... :-( Dave They don't plot them when they're tied to the dock... -- Larry |
"Larry" wrote in message
... This is great news. Thanks for any information you can give us on them. I'm sure lots of lurkers not posting are very interested in information about them. http://smartradio.ebigchina.com/sdp/...pl-149552.html Meindert |
Dave Baker wrote:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:44:28 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote: The pirates would already know the following from AIS: # Ship's position. Not always correct... Okay, I expected that but was not sure how it actually goes. Thanks for the "real world" feedback. I probably should have said "On a best case basis...", it was only a running joke. well, apart from the USS Cole.... :-( That was a sad one. The blame for that should probably be attributed to allowing her to go there and do that while presenting a politically correct facade (as far as in port security measures) that was inconsistent with the real world threat. Jack -- Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
Dave Baker wrote in
: They didn't, but I'll bet they do now. Naw, the locals get all excited when you leave the gigawatt radar running at the dock. Every time the beam passes a building and all the flourescent lights come on on their own, it seems to upset them....(c; -- Larry |
Dave Baker wrote in
: Yeah, true. I guess the lesson has been learnt, though the other side will of course already be planning new tactics. Dave I don't think we learned any lessons. The Japanese took advantage of our stupidity of putting most all the ships on the dock at Pearl Harbor at one time, right? They were just sitting ducks. If you watch the fleet operations, nothing has changed that. They all come and go pretty much together, all still sitting ducks at Pearl, Norfolk, or wherever. Of course, pretty moot in 2005. The Bubbleheads call them all "targets"...(c; -- Larry |
"Larry" wrote in message
... Dave Baker wrote in : They didn't, but I'll bet they do now. Naw, the locals get all excited when you leave the gigawatt radar running at the dock. Every time the beam passes a building and all the flourescent lights come on on their own, it seems to upset them....(c; -- Larry Gigawatt radar? Thats the power of a nuclear powerstation. Your not confusing the radar with the phasers? /Lars J |
"Lars Johansson" wrote in
: Gigawatt radar? Thats the power of a nuclear powerstation. Your not confusing the radar with the phasers? /Lars J No, many military radars operate with gigawatt (effective radiated power in the narrow beam) power levels. I've seen them cut a seagull out of the air at 100 yards. Stay out of the beam! We used to have one when I was in the Navy that could easily see the Moon. You had to pulse the display manually so the trace would keep running but there it was....the return from the Moon...very plainly seen. -- Larry |
"Larry" wrote in message ... We used to have one when I was in the Navy that could easily see the Moon. You had to pulse the display manually so the trace would keep running but there it was....the return from the Moon...very plainly seen. -- Larry The Navy used moonbounce communications back in the 70s...a dish on a modified gun mount with a TV camera pointed at the moonlight at the feedhorn...the gun mount moved to keep the camera on the brightest light and the dish remained on target for moonbounce regardless of ship rolls. Off course when the moon went below the horizon, communications ceased. I bet Jack in Maine remembers this system. 73 Doug K7ABX |
AIS anyone ?
Doug wrote:
The Navy used moonbounce communications back in the 70s...a dish on a modified gun mount with a TV camera pointed at the moonlight at the feedhorn...the gun mount moved to keep the camera on the brightest light and the dish remained on target for moonbounce regardless of ship rolls. Off course when the moon went below the horizon, communications ceased. I bet Jack in Maine remembers this system. Let's see, in the 70's I was on shore duty in The Philippines, then Spain, and then California. Did some sea duty during those times but don't think I ever saw that system. Some OF THE things from the "good old days" are not as good as what we have now. I guess nostalgia is the only thing that is as good as it used to be. Jack -- Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
AIS anyone ?
Jack,
It was the TRSCOM system, like on the USS Libery, etc. Unaffectionately known as Trashcom. Doug "Jack Erbes" wrote in message ... Doug wrote: The Navy used moonbounce communications back in the 70s...a dish on a modified gun mount with a TV camera pointed at the moonlight at the feedhorn...the gun mount moved to keep the camera on the brightest light and the dish remained on target for moonbounce regardless of ship rolls. Off course when the moon went below the horizon, communications ceased. I bet Jack in Maine remembers this system. Let's see, in the 70's I was on shore duty in The Philippines, then Spain, and then California. Did some sea duty during those times but don't think I ever saw that system. Some OF THE things from the "good old days" are not as good as what we have now. I guess nostalgia is the only thing that is as good as it used to be. Jack -- Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
AIS anyone ?
"Doug" wrote in
ink.net: 73 Doug K7ABX You ever work moonbounce, Doug? I used to be active as WB4THE back in the 70s with eight 12 element KLM beams with KLM power dividers and a homebrew KW 2m linear using P-P 4CX250Bs in the plumber's special amp out of the ARRL handbook. Worked great, better after we silver-plated the plate tank and output plumbing. I had a great time with it. -- Larry |
AIS anyone ?
Doug wrote:
Jack, It was the TRSCOM system, like on the USS Libery, etc. Unaffectionately known as Trashcom. Doug Okay, trashcom, now I remember it. I remember the later "Whiskey 3" satcom rig too. I was out on a destroyer with a WSC-3 one time and heard one of the experts that gathered on the fantail after the evening meal telling all his buddies that it was finding and pointing out the Russian spy satellites. Jack -- Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
AIS anyone ?
"Larry" wrote in message
... "Lars Johansson" wrote in : Gigawatt radar? Thats the power of a nuclear powerstation. Your not confusing the radar with the phasers? /Lars J No, many military radars operate with gigawatt (effective radiated power in the narrow beam) power levels. I've seen them cut a seagull out of the air at 100 yards. Stay out of the beam! What is the duty cycle of such a radar? /Lars J |
AIS anyone ?
"Lars Johansson" wrote in
: What is the duty cycle of such a radar? /Lars J Hmm....It was an airsearch, so had quite a rapid rep rate and narrow pulse width for good multiplane detection. I don't remember the specifications...but it would have been quite low. I remember it was in S- band. Power came from an Amplitron fed by a Magnetron with Thyratron pulser. The pulse forming network was a cabinet to itself. It was quite loud in the radar room. -- Larry |
AIS anyone ?
Hey Larry,
How about a missle detection radar with waveguide the size of air conditioning ducts, klystrons changed with an overhead crane, a capacitor bank for the pfn filling a 10' x 10' x 12' room and an antenna larger than a football field. We had moon bounce from that one also. krj Larry wrote: "Lars Johansson" wrote in : What is the duty cycle of such a radar? /Lars J Hmm....It was an airsearch, so had quite a rapid rep rate and narrow pulse width for good multiplane detection. I don't remember the specifications...but it would have been quite low. I remember it was in S- band. Power came from an Amplitron fed by a Magnetron with Thyratron pulser. The pulse forming network was a cabinet to itself. It was quite loud in the radar room. |
AIS anyone ?
krj wrote in
: Hey Larry, How about a missle detection radar with waveguide the size of air conditioning ducts, klystrons changed with an overhead crane, a capacitor bank for the pfn filling a 10' x 10' x 12' room and an antenna larger than a football field. We had moon bounce from that one also. krj Was that Dewline? Lotsa guys died from trying to get warm standing in front of the fixed antennas cooking from the inside out. I bet it had no trouble seeing the moon. But, alas, we would have had trouble fitting it on a DDG...(c; -- Larry |
AIS anyone ?
No, It was BMEWS. Each of the three antennas was 165' x 400' and weighed
2 million pounds. Operated at 425 mhz with 5 megawatts. krj Larry wrote: krj wrote in : Hey Larry, How about a missle detection radar with waveguide the size of air conditioning ducts, klystrons changed with an overhead crane, a capacitor bank for the pfn filling a 10' x 10' x 12' room and an antenna larger than a football field. We had moon bounce from that one also. krj Was that Dewline? Lotsa guys died from trying to get warm standing in front of the fixed antennas cooking from the inside out. I bet it had no trouble seeing the moon. But, alas, we would have had trouble fitting it on a DDG...(c; |
AIS anyone ?
krj wrote in
: No, It was BMEWS. Each of the three antennas was 165' x 400' and weighed 2 million pounds. Operated at 425 mhz with 5 megawatts. krj 425 Mhz I can handle....The chirping of the OTH radars on HF is awful. For years I've been using NAVSPASUR CW radar on 217 Mhz to monitor meteor scatter blips during meteor showers. This thing runs 3 transmitters in the megawatt range for space surveillance. http://www.fas.org/spp/military/prog.../spasur_at.htm http://www.k5kj.net/meteor.htm When the moon is overhead, you can hear its 800KW (Alabama) signal all the time bouncing off the moon. Nasa has a receiver on the net using SPASUR in, of all places, Roswell, NM. It's address is: http://science.nasa.gov/audio/meteor/navspasur.m3u But I couldn't get winamp to connect to it just now.... Low-band VHF TV is good for meteor scatter reception, but Charleston has 316KW transmitters on channels 2, 4 and 5 so that puts out so much noise on the bad as to be useless, here. -- Larry |
AIS anyone ?
"Larry" wrote in message ... "Doug" wrote in ink.net: 73 Doug K7ABX You ever work moonbounce, Doug? I used to be active as WB4THE back in the 70s with eight 12 element KLM beams with KLM power dividers and a homebrew KW 2m linear using P-P 4CX250Bs in the plumber's special amp out of the ARRL handbook. Worked great, better after we silver-plated the plate tank and output plumbing. I had a great time with it. -- Larry Not on the ham bands. Perhaps some of the "long delayed echo" signals I encountered on 20 meters back in the late 50s could have been moonbounce. But since you brought up Roswell, NM, perhaps it was just a alien transponder such as the book 2001 mentions near the beginning. The movie version shows it with the apes around it, but doesn't explain to the non-techie that it is a communications device. This ought to get another way off the subject chain going...LOL 73 Doug K7ABX |
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