Real sailors don't need any electronics ! ! ! ! ! ! ! .! !
 

Real sailors will travel the seven seas without any technology, just a
boat made of wood and sails!

Your point?

"Hans-Marc Olsen" wrote in message
m...
Real sailors will travel the seven seas without any technology, just a
boat made of wood and sails!

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
. ..
(Hans-Marc Olsen) wrote in
m:

Real sailors will travel the seven seas without any technology, just a
boat made of wood and sails!

You're the same guy posting stupid comments in other groups. Did they let
you out for the night or did you just forget to take your meds?

-- Geoff

Just plonk him, he's just discovered internet.

--
Regards ........... Rheilly Phoull

Your absolutely right. I went to the Merchant Marine Academy. I'm a
liscensed Master Mariner. The people who reley strictly on electronics are
not real men. If their equipment went down they would be screwed. I helped
out a guy this year in the fog in Wilmington Canyon who didn't even have a
compass! Just hand held GPS with dead batteries! I told him to follow the
setting sun, then use the Big Dipper to find the North Star. He was
panicked. And he had teenagers on board. The ocean can and does bite
idiots in the ass! How about the guy off Beach Haven who ran down and
killed three guys on a beautiful day with unlimited visability because he
was farting around with his plotter diskettes. I also love the guys with the
radars turning in the Point Pleasant Canal. Same BS. What about the people
with searchlights mounted to the bow. They think they're on the Parkway I
guess. On the darkest night you can see fine without them, and they love
shining them into the eyes of boat operators whose running lights could
clearly be seen if they hadn't ruined their vision with the searchlight.
Know the water, have a compass, reduce speed in the fog and listen (as
opposed to music) for other traffic, don't take chances when the boat isn't
100%. Real captains know how to be safe and take care of their crew. There
is one exception. Real FISHERMEN need electronics. Just to zero in on
wrecks and reefs, not to go for fuel or dinner.
"Rheilly Phoull" wrote in message
...

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
. ..
(Hans-Marc Olsen) wrote in
m:

Real sailors will travel the seven seas without any technology, just a
boat made of wood and sails!

You're the same guy posting stupid comments in other groups. Did they
let
you out for the night or did you just forget to take your meds?

-- Geoff

Just plonk him, he's just discovered internet.

--
Regards ........... Rheilly Phoull

By your own "logic,", you are not condemning boat electronics, but
rather a few of their users and their abusive use. Substitute most
anything, i.e., bicycles, garden tools, hand drills, or autos and
airplanes, for boat electronics and you have the same argument. Sorry,
it doesn't wash.

"sCap66" wrote in message news:jP2qd.9$nq6.2@trndny09...
Your absolutely right. I went to the Merchant Marine Academy. I'm a
liscensed Master Mariner. The people who reley strictly on electronics are
not real men. If their equipment went down they would be screwed. I helped
out a guy this year in the fog in Wilmington Canyon who didn't even have a
compass! Just hand held GPS with dead batteries! I told him to follow the
setting sun, then use the Big Dipper to find the North Star. He was
panicked. And he had teenagers on board. The ocean can and does bite
idiots in the ass! How about the guy off Beach Haven who ran down and
killed three guys on a beautiful day with unlimited visability because he
was farting around with his plotter diskettes. I also love the guys with the
radars turning in the Point Pleasant Canal. Same BS. What about the people
with searchlights mounted to the bow. They think they're on the Parkway I
guess. On the darkest night you can see fine without them, and they love
shining them into the eyes of boat operators whose running lights could
clearly be seen if they hadn't ruined their vision with the searchlight.
Know the water, have a compass, reduce speed in the fog and listen (as
opposed to music) for other traffic, don't take chances when the boat isn't
100%. Real captains know how to be safe and take care of their crew. There
is one exception. Real FISHERMEN need electronics. Just to zero in on
wrecks and reefs, not to go for fuel or dinner.
"Rheilly Phoull" wrote in message
...

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
. ..
(Hans-Marc Olsen) wrote in
m:

Real sailors will travel the seven seas without any technology, just a
boat made of wood and sails!

You're the same guy posting stupid comments in other groups. Did they
let
you out for the night or did you just forget to take your meds?

-- Geoff

Just plonk him, he's just discovered internet.

--
Regards ........... Rheilly Phoull

Actually , a real sailor would have to use an uncarved log, and a stick with
bark. Now that's sailing!

I'll stick with stinkpotters, gps,and autopilots.

"Hans-Marc Olsen" wrote in message
m...
Real sailors will travel the seven seas without any technology, just a
boat made of wood and sails!

What about ropes?

"Himszy" LANDLUBBER wrote
"Hans-Marc Olsen" wrote
Real sailors will travel the seven seas without any technology, just a
boat made of wood and sails!

What about ropes?


There are no "ropes" on vessels. Boats use LINE.

I believe there can be two ropes on a boat, the rope bell, and any line that is
not being used? Am i right about that?

"Florida Keyz" wrote

I believe there can be two ropes on a boat, the rope bell, and any line
that is
not being used? Am i right about that?

OK maybe the pull on a bell clapper. ;-) All other is line (stowed,
standing, or running).

Jack

All other is line (stowed, standing, or running).

Should exclude sheets, halyards, and stays even if they were nylon or hemp,
as these are standing or running rigging. "Line" best used to describe rope
used for mooring, anchoring, and any other securing of items anywhere on the
boat. Including when the bell clapper is tied-off to prevent it's ringing in
heavy seas! ;-)

Cheers,

Jack

Jack Painter wrote:


There are no "ropes" on vessels. Boats use LINE.


The Navy has lots of rope on their ships. Rope is stranded wire "cable"
(for lack of a better word). This is the big serious stuff for towing
and lifting and the like.

Line is non-metallic and generally made from synthetic or organic
fibers. Line that was smaller than 1/4" or so is generally called small
stuff. But there are exceptions, like shot line.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

Subject: Real sailors don't need any electronics ! ! ! ! ! ! ! .! !
From: Me


Actually Jack, it is "Ropes are for Boats, Lines are for Ships,
and Boats are things, that can sit on decks of Ships."

The Blue Marlin makes a lot of ships, boats.

http://www.msc.navy.mil/N00p/pressre...00/press22.htm

Dennis

"Jack Erbes" wrote
Jack Painter wrote:


There are no "ropes" on vessels. Boats use LINE.


The Navy has lots of rope on their ships. Rope is stranded wire "cable"
(for lack of a better word). This is the big serious stuff for towing
and lifting and the like.

Line is non-metallic and generally made from synthetic or organic
fibers. Line that was smaller than 1/4" or so is generally called small
stuff. But there are exceptions, like shot line.

Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

Jack Erbes, you should know better! That's what you get for calling yourself
Navy when you were a spook, lol. Admirable work but a sailor it was not.
Cable is not the lack of a better word. Cable IS wire rope, and HAWSER is
another word used nautically. But rope is NOT.

A tow LINE, mooring LINES, towing HAWSER. Flaked lines, flemmed lines, line
locker. No rope.

Jack Painter
A Sailor in Virginia

after the third week of a stormy tasman sea voyage the ropes were the
only things talking to me, ....they looked pretty good too, but didnt
have names like you are suggesting...

bruce

A tow LINE, mooring LINES, towing HAWSER. Flaked lines, flemmed lines, line
locker. No rope.

Jack Painter
A Sailor in Virginia

Who realy give a damn except those who are trying to teach?

Those Who can't? etc. etc.

BOLT ROPE.

BOLT-ROPE, (ralingue, Fr.) a rope to which the edges or skirts of the
sails are sewed, to strengthen and prevent them from rending. Those
parts of the bolt-rope, which are on the perpendicular or sloping
edges, are called leech-ropes; that at the bottom, the foot-rope; and
that on the top or upper-edge, the head-rope. Stay-sails, whose heads
are formed like an acute angle, have no head-rope. To different parts
of the bolt-rope are fastened all the ropes employed to contract or
dilate the sails.

"Sailman" wrote

BOLT ROPE.

BOLT-ROPE, (ralingue, Fr.) a rope to which the edges or skirts of the
sails are sewed, to strengthen and prevent them from rending. Those
parts of the bolt-rope, which are on the perpendicular or sloping
edges, are called leech-ropes; that at the bottom, the foot-rope; and
that on the top or upper-edge, the head-rope. Stay-sails, whose heads
are formed like an acute angle, have no head-rope. To different parts
of the bolt-rope are fastened all the ropes employed to contract or
dilate the sails.

That's a pretty neat description, unfortunately it has nothing to do with
the use of lines on a boat or ship. Materials that a sailmaker uses in
construction that help to form a finished product and no longer functions in
any way as an individual component are not examples of which we speak.
Nonetheless it was a real landlubber who edited that dictionary and
described "contracting and dilating" the sails, with other ropes no less.
Figures it's a French word, lol. America owes its final victory for
independence to assistance from French warships, so we're bound to leave the
frogs alone on this one. But if there are some Brit's in the group,I'll bet
they could expose the French Navy for what they always were to Britain:
Target practice. Gilbert & Sullivan had to apologize to France when their
musical had a French Warship striking her colors to an unarmed British
merchant. Probably happened on a few occasions too ;-)

JP

Jack Painter wrote:

snip

Jack Erbes, you should know better! That's what you get for calling yourself
Navy when you were a spook, lol. Admirable work but a sailor it was not.
Cable is not the lack of a better word. Cable IS wire rope, and HAWSER is
another word used nautically. But rope is NOT.

A tow LINE, mooring LINES, towing HAWSER. Flaked lines, flemmed lines, line
locker. No rope.


Hmmm... You bubbleheads always think you know everything. :)

My knowledge on the subject goes back to NTC San Diego, 1964, Company
386. Standing at a chest-high pipe stanchion located abaft the beam of
the USS Recruit was a classroom for recruits. It was there that I
absorbed the basics of marlinspike seamanship from a somewhat weathered,
but entertaining, Chief Boatswain's Mate.

I clearly remember the Chief saying that we had to know and remember
that wire was called rope and that the stuff that $#@ing civilians and
Marines called rope was called line. I mentally cataloged that and,
sure enough, it got me a correct answer on the written exam we took a
few days later.

So I learned two things. One was that wire was rope and the second was
that the Chief is never wrong.

So at your prodding I decided that my knowledge could be affirmed by the
NAVEDTRA MILITARY REQUIREMENTS, BASIC (BMR) training manual. I quickly
found that online and went to Chapter 7 (Basic Seamanship):

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../12018_ch7.pdf

On page 7-12 under the topic of marlinspike Seamanship I found the
following elucidating statements:

"Rope is a general term and can include both fiber and wire rope.

In the Navy, Sailors generally refer to fiber rope as line, and wire
rope is referred to as rope, wire rope, or wire."

So even though I was clearly right once, by current standards nobody is
wrong.

And I also know how that came to be. Numerous revisions have occurred
since the Navy became an All Volunteer Force (which it already had been
except in time of war). Since 1975 or so it has busily engaged itself
in making itself a more pleasant and less challenging place to be.
Wondering what the date on the online manual was, I went back to the
Introduction and found it dates to 1999.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...c/12018_fm.pdf

And I also found this scalding reminder of the differences between the
Navy I joined in 1964 and the I retired from in 1990:

"Although the words "he," "him," and "his" are used sparingly in this
manual to enhance communication, they are not intended to be gender
driven nor to affront or discriminate against anyone reading this text."

I'm sure that eventually the manual will also include a statement that:

"An inability on the part of the anyone reading this text to correctly
recall specific details of information and terminology in subsequent
testing is not to be taken as an inference of mental or physical
inferiority. If the reader is traumatized by not being able to meet
required standards for evaluation of intelligence and ability, a waiver
of the standards can be obtained from the Command Career Counselor."

Oh yeah, one other small correction, the correct term is "flemished",
not flemmed.

I got pretty good on marlinspike seamanship at boot camp, I got really
good at it when I owned a Columbia 22 for two years in Hawaii. I was a
sailor!

Cheers,

Jack (A former sailor currently aground without a boat.)

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

"Jack Erbes" wrote

Hmmm... You bubbleheads always think you know everything. :)

we are good, roger that!


I'm sure that eventually the manual will also include a statement that:

"An inability on the part of the anyone reading this text to correctly
recall specific details of information and terminology in subsequent
testing is not to be taken as an inference of mental or physical
inferiority. If the reader is traumatized by not being able to meet
required standards for evaluation of intelligence and ability, a waiver
of the standards can be obtained from the Command Career Counselor."

God help us then. At least they did away with the "time out" cards in boot
camp, so I heard.


Oh yeah, one other small correction, the correct term is "flemished",
not flemmed.

I know, thank you. "flemmed" was used in slang only, just like the command
"flem", which rarely escapes a Chief's lips in proper vernacular ;-)

I forgot to include Rat Lines and Lead Line in my examples, there are
probably others.

We used to call steel cable "wire rope" in the Ironworkers also, but I don't
recall ever hearing that in the Navy. Must have been the sheltered life
aboard a Boomer ;-)

Cheers,

Jack
Sailing with the Coast Guard now

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:59:08 -0500, "Jack Painter" wrote:


"Himszy" LANDLUBBER wrote
"Hans-Marc Olsen" wrote
Real sailors will travel the seven seas without any technology, just
a
boat made of wood and sails!

What about ropes?


There are no "ropes" on vessels. Boats use LINE.


Very typical statement, usually associated with pedantic armchair sailing
lubbers, or someone whose sailing experience is that they once took a
guided
tour of a pirate ship at Disneyworld.

Let me guess. You also think that a "ship" is a boat that is too big to be
lifted onto another ship.

Bwhahahahahahahaha!

BB

I noticed the bubbleheads didn't jump on the earlier remark about boats
being hoisted aboard ship.
Will this thread now degenerate into discussions of "Pig" boats, "boomers",
etc?
Doug, K7ABX
A former spook, aircraft owner who just qualified 2 weeks ago as a USCG
Auxiliary Boatcrew "person". Lets see, the pointy end called a "bow".....

"Doug" wrote
wrote
"Jack Painter" wrote:

There are no "ropes" on vessels. Boats use LINE.
Very typical statement, usually associated with pedantic armchair
sailing
lubbers, or someone whose sailing experience is that they once took a
guided
tour of a pirate ship at Disneyworld.

Let me guess. You also think that a "ship" is a boat that is too big to
be
lifted onto another ship.

Bwhahahahahahahaha!

BB

I noticed the bubbleheads didn't jump on the earlier remark about boats
being hoisted aboard ship.
Will this thread now degenerate into discussions of "Pig" boats,
"boomers",
etc?
Doug, K7ABX
A former spook, aircraft owner who just qualified 2 weeks ago as a USCG
Auxiliary Boatcrew "person". Lets see, the pointy end called a "bow".....

Hi Doug, congrats on crew qual. I thought the thread has been a fun
diversion, and saw no need to allow it to "degenerate". My pleasure boating,
navy and coast guard experience need no embellishment, nor do yours of
course. I chose to ignore the "BinaryBill" poster above, that's all.

Best regards,
JP

On 2004-12-04, Jack Painter wrote:

"Sailman" wrote

BOLT ROPE.

BOLT-ROPE, (ralingue, Fr.) a rope to which the edges or skirts of the
sails are sewed, to strengthen and prevent them from rending. Those
parts of the bolt-rope, which are on the perpendicular or sloping
edges, are called leech-ropes; that at the bottom, the foot-rope; and
that on the top or upper-edge, the head-rope. Stay-sails, whose heads
are formed like an acute angle, have no head-rope. To different parts
of the bolt-rope are fastened all the ropes employed to contract or
dilate the sails.

That's a pretty neat description, unfortunately it has nothing to do with
the use of lines on a boat or ship. Materials that a sailmaker uses in
construction that help to form a finished product and no longer functions in
any way as an individual component are not examples of which we speak.

OK then, man-ropes and footropes (also, I discover, after some research,
called a "horse," but no matter). Both function as ropes. Neither
is installed by a sailmaker. (There *is* another item, called a
footrope, installed by a sailmaker along the foot of the sail. But
the footrope of which I speak is the one under the yard on which
a yardman might stand while furling or reefing a squaresail.)

So Jack's wrong. And I'm wrong too for following up with
a discussion of ropes in an alectronics newsgroup.

I *can* throw in a simple question for the electronics buffs,
though: what's your favorite way to wire a mast in which there
are things halfway up and things at the top (i.e., spreader-lights
and a steaming light about halfway up, masthead tricolor, anchor light,
maybe wind instruments, and VHF antenna at the top. In particular,
how do you handle the ground wiring. You can run a three-wire cable
up to the spreaders and a separate several wire cable up to the
masthead, where the 3-wire cable has GND, STEAM, and SPREADER,
and the masthead has GND, ANCHOR, TRICOLOR, ...

But that involves an extra gound wire. You could also run a "tap"
from a multi-wire cable at the midpoint to provide ground to the
spreader and anchor lights.

ANy thoughts?

--John

"John F. Hughes" wrote

I *can* throw in a simple question for the electronics buffs,
though: what's your favorite way to wire a mast in which there
are things halfway up and things at the top (i.e., spreader-lights
and a steaming light about halfway up, masthead tricolor, anchor light,
maybe wind instruments, and VHF antenna at the top. In particular,
how do you handle the ground wiring. You can run a three-wire cable
up to the spreaders and a separate several wire cable up to the
masthead, where the 3-wire cable has GND, STEAM, and SPREADER,
and the masthead has GND, ANCHOR, TRICOLOR, ...

But that involves an extra gound wire. You could also run a "tap"
from a multi-wire cable at the midpoint to provide ground to the
spreader and anchor lights.

ANy thoughts?

--John

What ground wires? DC lighting never uses a ground, what are you talking
about? One positive lead one negative lead, end of lighting story. Of course
in a large mast with thousands od tiny ss screws protruding into it, you
will discover what grounding DC lighting and instruments does unless you
protect the wiring in pvc conduit.

Jack
with never a rope on the boat

What ground wires? DC lighting never uses a ground, what are you talking
about? One positive lead one negative lead, end of lighting story. Of course
in a large mast with thousands od tiny ss screws protruding into it, you
will discover what grounding DC lighting and instruments does unless you
protect the wiring in pvc conduit.

Ah. I see your point. Very helpful. Manrope.