Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the IC-M800 to operate on Ham freqs ?

Any pointers to instructions ?

Thanks

Simon

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

"Larry W4CSC" wrote
We have the M-802 on Lionheart. To open its transmit up to 2-30 Mhz
transmit, simply hold down MODE and TX buttons together while pressing the
2 button. This toggles the radio between marine channels only and wide
open frequency transmit.

Nothing like a high-end radio for high-end features, eh?

Jack

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Steve wrote:

Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the IC-M800 to operate on Ham freqs ?

Any pointers to instructions ?



Yes Steve it can be modified.....and also Icom have an eprom at less
than 20 uk pounds that adds lsb so you get the works

To modify the radio it is the old fashioned way of cutting links and not
button pushing...this is OLD technology.


Find the logic unit which I believe is one of the circuit boards
underneath.

about mid point along on one of the short sides are 4 links and
these are marked w1 w3 w5 w6

cutting w1 gives free TX on all frequencies

The radio will not transmit below 2 mhz or above 24 mhz


To increase the frequency coverage

find the RF unit.


In one corner and running along the short edge is a row of diodes

could be as many as 10 You need to cut D25 to go over 24 mhz
you need to cut D24 to go below 2 mhz

D24 is nearest the corner and D25 is at the opposite end of the row!


the eprom is product code 119.o2 and gives USB and LSb however if it is
a USA radio this may already be fitted.

These are good bomb proof radios and all though not ideal for ham
operation work very well though you will get the odd snipe about being
off frequency :)


Hope this helps

John

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Larry W4CSC wrote in message ...
(Steve) wrote in
om:

Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the IC-M800 to operate on
Ham freqs ?

Any pointers to instructions ?

Thanks

Simon


We have the M-802 on Lionheart. To open its transmit up to 2-30 Mhz
transmit, simply hold down MODE and TX buttons together while pressing the
2 button. This toggles the radio between marine channels only and wide
open frequency transmit.

To keep my captain from being arrested, when I leave the boat, I toggle it
back to marine-channels-only transmit...(c;

73, Larry W4CSC/MM

Thanks for this, does that mean I can assume the M800 is the same as
your 802 ?

It would be great if it was 'toggleable' becuase like you we will have
a mix of people with different qualifications using the vessel and I
absolutely must ensure that we stay legal. Although it seems to me
that as a means of routine shore contact, a full ham licence at both
ends is virtually essential - is that correct ?

Thanks

Simon

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

What do you mean by a "full ham license"? To use most HF
frequencies a General class license is required. An Extra
class give you access to all ham frequencies but is really
not necessary. And yes, both ends need a license.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Steve" wrote in message
om...
Larry W4CSC wrote in message
...
(Steve) wrote in
om:

Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the IC-M800 to operate on
Ham freqs ?

Any pointers to instructions ?

Thanks

Simon


We have the M-802 on Lionheart. To open its transmit up to 2-30 Mhz
transmit, simply hold down MODE and TX buttons together while pressing
the
2 button. This toggles the radio between marine channels only and wide
open frequency transmit.

To keep my captain from being arrested, when I leave the boat, I toggle
it
back to marine-channels-only transmit...(c;

73, Larry W4CSC/MM

Thanks for this, does that mean I can assume the M800 is the same as
your 802 ?

It would be great if it was 'toggleable' becuase like you we will have
a mix of people with different qualifications using the vessel and I
absolutely must ensure that we stay legal. Although it seems to me
that as a means of routine shore contact, a full ham licence at both
ends is virtually essential - is that correct ?

Thanks

Simon

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message ...
What do you mean by a "full ham license"? To use most HF
frequencies a General class license is required. An Extra
class give you access to all ham frequencies but is really
not necessary. And yes, both ends need a license.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

...
...
...
The UK has a new 3-tier licence system, only the top tier - the
'advanced' license - allows transmission on all amateur freqs with
400W and is internationally acceptable.

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

We also have a new 3-tier system. The top 2 allow use of the HF
bands at 2000W.


Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Steve" wrote in message
om...
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
What do you mean by a "full ham license"? To use most HF
frequencies a General class license is required. An Extra
class give you access to all ham frequencies but is really
not necessary. And yes, both ends need a license.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

..
..
..
The UK has a new 3-tier licence system, only the top tier - the
'advanced' license - allows transmission on all amateur freqs with
400W and is internationally acceptable.

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

(Steve) wrote in
om:



Thanks for this, does that mean I can assume the M800 is the same as
your 802 ?

I don't think so. The M800 isn't listed on Icom's manuals website so must
be old. Sorry I can't help more.

It would be great if it was 'toggleable' becuase like you we will have
a mix of people with different qualifications using the vessel and I
absolutely must ensure that we stay legal. Although it seems to me
that as a means of routine shore contact, a full ham licence at both
ends is virtually essential - is that correct ?


Here I'll give you some help. The ONLY people who should operate the HF
SSB radio are those who are WELL EDUCATED in its use. Each operator in the
USA is REQUIRED to have a "Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit" to
be legal.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/rp.html

This is a nothing license that simply gives the FCC someone to prosecute
who is under their jurisdiction because of how the Communications Act of
1934 is written. There's no skills test at all.


To operate GMDSS/DSC, you are required to be a licensed GMDSS OPERATOR,
having passed elements 1 and 7 of the General Radio Operator's License
examinations (GROL).

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html

(I'll probably get slammed for pointing this out, but you can read it for
yourself on the webpages.) Radio salesmen selling GMDSS equipment to
yachties never mention any of this, of course, as it would stop sales of
expensive equipment. It's NOT a cellphone.

To repair GMDSS equipment, there's a repairman's license, too. I hold both
so have an operator/maintainer's license (elements 1,3,7 and 9) called a DB
license.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/dm.html

As to the ham license, everyone who's going to operate the radio should go
get his General Class ham radio license. The code testing that turned
everyone off has NEARLY gone away and you only have to learn 5 wpm Morse
code, now, to get the General and have HF/SSB priviledges on the choice ham
bands. If you're gonna be at sea, having ham buddies ashore to handle
message traffic is well worth the effort. Local ham radio clubs in your
area hold classes to teach code and the written tests. I've gotten
children as young as 9 to pass the General tests, but that's no where near
the record of 4 or 5 years old. I recently lost $10 betting a 12-year-old
he couldn't pass his Extra Class ham license test before he became a
teenager. Losing that $10 was such a pleasure just to see the beaming
smile on his face....(c;

Now, IN AN EMERGENCY WHERE LIVES ARE IN DANGER....there are NO RADIO LAWS
in force! While I was helping the local mechanic figure out where the
water came from that flooded Lionheart's Perkins 4-108 diesel down in
Daytona Beach, I had our M-802 tuned to the Maritime Service Net on 14.300
Mhz. (RECORD THAT FREQUENCY...VERY IMPORTANT). This net runs nearly
24/7/365 on 14.300 Mhz USB to help boaters at sea. As we were working on
the engine, the captain of a Honduran commercial fishing vessel contacted
the hams on the net to try to get help for one of his crewmen who had been
in a fight and had a 7" knife stuck in his back between some vital organs.
He was in shock, of course, and his life was threatened. This captain was
NOT A HAM RADIO OPERATOR...which is FINE WHEN LIFE IS IN DANGER! Do not
hesitate to let ANYONE operate the radio during these emergencies,
especially on 14.300 Mhz where the hams will work day and night to save
lives and boats! A Canadian ham who is very active on this net contacted
the USCG to try to get help to the boat. USCG contacted the Honduran Air
Force who subsequently got a boat out to this slow fishing boat to get the
injured crewman off and to a hospital in Honduras. HE SURVIVED!! Makes ya
feel proud to be a ham...(c;

Hope this info and the webpages helps you get it all running. You really
need to learn the Element 1 practices and procedures for using HF radio
before getting on HF/SSB.

By the way, if you're interested in getting your GMDSS operator's license
or more, we make it SO easy because we give you all the questions and
answers to all the tests, now, instead of making you sit in front of the
steely-eyed FCC examiner from the Radio Gestapo WRITING out your answers to
the old tests back when the First Class FCC Radiotelephone License proudly
displayed on my wall meant you knew what you were doing. You can download
all these commercial test elements from:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/eqp.html
memorize the answers and just go take the test from a volunteer examiner,
who is probably a local ham operator in your area.

Larry W4CSC and other fine old calls since 1957 (I was 11 when I got my ham
license.)

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:

We also have a new 3-tier system. The top 2 allow use of the HF
bands at 2000W.


Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista


2000 watts? You mean I have to turn it DOWN?!!

73, Larry W4CSC

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

"Steve (another one)" wrote:

John Howell wrote:

Steve wrote:

Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the IC-M800 to operate on Ham freqs ?
snip
These are good bomb proof radios and all though not ideal for ham
operation work very well though you will get the odd snipe about being
off frequency :)


Hope this helps

John

Thanks that's very helpful, but prompts another question....

I also have responsibility for a boat with an M700, it is annoying that
it cannot receive down to 518KHz for Navtex. It had not ocured to me
that this could be easily 'fixed' do you know of a way to allow that ??

Thanks

Steve


Sorry Steve...I got this info from Icom UK who are very helpfull..They
also gave me info on modifying other rigs so maybe they could give
this...I shall see.


Regards John

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

John Howell wrote:

Steve wrote:

Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the IC-M800 to operate on Ham freqs ?

Any pointers to instructions ?




Yes Steve it can be modified.....and also Icom have an eprom at less
than 20 uk pounds that adds lsb so you get the works

To modify the radio it is the old fashioned way of cutting links and not
button pushing...this is OLD technology.


Find the logic unit which I believe is one of the circuit boards
underneath.

about mid point along on one of the short sides are 4 links and
these are marked w1 w3 w5 w6

cutting w1 gives free TX on all frequencies

The radio will not transmit below 2 mhz or above 24 mhz


To increase the frequency coverage

find the RF unit.


In one corner and running along the short edge is a row of diodes

could be as many as 10 You need to cut D25 to go over 24 mhz
you need to cut D24 to go below 2 mhz

D24 is nearest the corner and D25 is at the opposite end of the row!


the eprom is product code 119.o2 and gives USB and LSb however if it is
a USA radio this may already be fitted.

These are good bomb proof radios and all though not ideal for ham
operation work very well though you will get the odd snipe about being
off frequency :)


Hope this helps

John

Thanks that's very helpful, but prompts another question....

I also have responsibility for a boat with an M700, it is annoying that
it cannot receive down to 518KHz for Navtex. It had not ocured to me
that this could be easily 'fixed' do you know of a way to allow that ??

Thanks

Steve

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:

To operate GMDSS/DSC, you are required to be a licensed GMDSS OPERATOR,
having passed elements 1 and 7 of the General Radio Operator's License
examinations (GROL).

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html

(I'll probably get slammed for pointing this out, but you can read it for
yourself on the webpages.) Radio salesmen selling GMDSS equipment to
yachties never mention any of this, of course, as it would stop sales of
expensive equipment. It's NOT a cellphone.

Larry, where do you get the stuff you post? Is there an exhaust leak on
your old bread truck or something?

For American recreational vessels under 20 meters operating only in
American waters, no license of any sort is required to operate a DSC
equipped VHF radio. For those who travel abroad a simple no test
Restricted ticket and a ship station license is still all that is needed.

Just because a VHF with DSC is part of the suite of equipment that makes
up a GMDSS installation does not mean that a GMDSS operator's ticket is
needed to own or use one. Perhaps you should read your own links.Those
radio salesmen know more than you do about their customers and their needs.

There is not even a requirement for a ship station license for that
vessel. The MMSI will be issued without a station or operators license.

I am sure we are all impressed to no end that you hold GMDSS operator
and maintainer tickets but that obviously has no bearing on how much you
know about the rules for using them. Besides, 99.999 percent of small
boaters probably could care less about "maintaining" their DSC radios.

Rick

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

"Rick" wrote
Larry W4CSC wrote:

To operate GMDSS/DSC, you are required to be a licensed GMDSS OPERATOR,
having passed elements 1 and 7 of the General Radio Operator's License
examinations (GROL).

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html


Just because a VHF with DSC is part of the suite of equipment that makes
up a GMDSS installation does not mean that a GMDSS operator's ticket is
needed to own or use one. Perhaps you should read your own links.Those
radio salesmen know more than you do about their customers and their
needs.

There is not even a requirement for a ship station license for that
vessel. The MMSI will be issued without a station or operators license.

Rick

I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is
required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue come
up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed equipment. I
can say that the equipment is certainly different where HF is concerned, but
not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with your position and channel
on VHF-DSC.

Jack

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

"Larry W4CSC" wrote

To operate GMDSS/DSC, you are required to be a licensed GMDSS OPERATOR,
having passed elements 1 and 7 of the General Radio Operator's License
examinations (GROL).

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html



Larry, all I could find was information regarding compulsory GMDSS ships. Is
there a listing you are aware of for voluntary-equipped GMDSS? HF is the
issue, of course ;-)

http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/gmdss.html

Jack

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Jack Painter wrote:


I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is
required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue come
up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed equipment. I
can say that the equipment is certainly different where HF is concerned, but
not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with your position and channel
on VHF-DSC.

There is no requirement for a commercial radio operator's license to
carry or use an HF or a VHF set on a US recreational vessel. In the US a
restricted radio operator's permit and a ship station license is all
that is required to operate HF. If the recreational vessel makes no
international voyages then no license of any sort is required for
VHF/DSC installations or use.

Like I wrote earlier, just because a radio incorporates one of the
features that comprise part of a GMDSS suite does not mean that the
operator hold a GMDSS license.

Rick

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Jack Painter wrote:

Larry, all I could find was information regarding compulsory GMDSS ships. Is
there a listing you are aware of for voluntary-equipped GMDSS? HF is the
issue, of course ;-)

Unless Larry holds, and is required to hold, a current USCG license as a
merchant marine officer with an STCW certificate endorsed as a radio
operator he only holds the GMDSS tickets for ego purposes. No one else
needs one unless they work for a shorebased maintenance firm doing work
on GMDSS equipment on ships. He obviously doesn't understand the GMDSS
system concept and is posting nonsense.

If you want reliable information that applies to you and your particular
circumstances just Google "gmdss voluntary station operator license"

There are plenty of pages. Here is a link that pretty much states what
Larry would have known if he had any training and held the license for
anything other than some kind of redneck ham radio bragging rights:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/cvib-2.doc

Training, Licensing and Certification

The Master and all Mates on SOLAS vessels are now required to hold the
FCC GMDSS Radio Operator?s License (GOC) for Sea Areas A2, A3 (Inmarsat
coverage), and A4 (polar regions) or the Restricted GMDSS Radio
Operator?s License (ROC) for operations in Sea Area A1. They must also
hold a Coast Guard STCW 95 GMDSS endorsement. The STCW endorsement
requires mandatory training and demonstrated ability to operate all
GMDSS systems. Most small commercial vessels are not required to be STCW
compliant, however, and are permitted to use any GMDSS equipment without
mandated GMDSS training. Small commercial vessels mandated to carry
radio for safety reasons are required to hold a radio station license
and the appropriate operator permits. Vessels subject to the
Bridge-to-Bridge act are also required to hold a radio station license.

Rick

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:

To repair GMDSS equipment, there's a repairman's license, too. I hold both
so have an operator/maintainer's license (elements 1,3,7 and 9) called a DB
license.

Really? The FCC ULS database must have missed you somehow. All they have
is your ham license. Maybe you changed your name?

Rick

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

"Rick" wrote

If you want reliable information that applies to you and your particular
circumstances just Google "gmdss voluntary station operator license"
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/cvib-2.doc

Thanks. I used the search-engine inside the FCC pages, and it had the same
info, except the part about voluntary equipped stations, which we now know
is open to any owner/operator etc.

Jack

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

"Jack Painter" wrote in
news:_nKGc.8282$pY2.8013@lakeread01:



I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is
required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue
come up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed
equipment. I can say that the equipment is certainly different where
HF is concerned, but not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with
your position and channel on VHF-DSC.

Jack


I was referring to the HF GMDSS system, which goes along with the Icom M800
HF/SSB rig of this thread, although it does not have GMDSS.....

NOT UNLICENSED VHF....

To operate HF GMDSS aboard your sailboat, a GMDSS OPERATORS license IS
required, no matter what the Waste Marine salesman told you...

Larry

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

"Larry W4CSC" wrote
"Jack Painter" wrote in
I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is
required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue
come up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed
equipment. I can say that the equipment is certainly different where
HF is concerned, but not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with
your position and channel on VHF-DSC.

Jack


I was referring to the HF GMDSS system, which goes along with the Icom
M800
HF/SSB rig of this thread, although it does not have GMDSS.....

NOT UNLICENSED VHF....

To operate HF GMDSS aboard your sailboat, a GMDSS OPERATORS license IS
required, no matter what the Waste Marine salesman told you...

Larry, it's a confusing matter, and I don't want in the middle of something
I cannot offer evidence for. So I will just add that when Rick quoted or
refeernced the NavCenter pages, I will caution that we have not done a
bang-up job of maintainng that website. I have had to clairify boater's
questions there about watchstanding before as it is very confusing in some
areas.

Like this (NavCenter)
For MF Radios the watch is maintained on 2182 kHz and for MF-DSC radios on
2187.5 kHz. There are similar requirements that voluntary vessels with
HF-DSC radios and Inmarsat Satellite terminals cruise with the radios turned
on and watching the emergency channels
--
Realize that 5 years after that was published, we STILL don't have a Sea
Area A-2 yet! And we do a somewhat less than credible job of monitoring 2182
from lousy whips antennas at Groups. And where I work, we missed the 2187.5
GMDSS distress call sent by the exploded T/V Bow Mariner some 80 miles away
from our main DSC antenna.. So if it's an FCC rule we are talking about,
then I would recommend avoiding the USCG websites as a source of conclusive
information. We'll try to answer questions about our own rules, not the
FCC's thank you.

Best,

jack

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Rick wrote in
ink.net:

Jack Painter wrote:


I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license
is required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue
come up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed
equipment. I can say that the equipment is certainly different where
HF is concerned, but not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with
your position and channel on VHF-DSC.

There is no requirement for a commercial radio operator's license to
carry or use an HF or a VHF set on a US recreational vessel. In the US
a restricted radio operator's permit and a ship station license is all
that is required to operate HF. If the recreational vessel makes no
international voyages then no license of any sort is required for
VHF/DSC installations or use.

Like I wrote earlier, just because a radio incorporates one of the
features that comprise part of a GMDSS suite does not mean that the
operator hold a GMDSS license.

Rick



The use of ANY HF equipment aboard ANY recreational boat DOES require a
Ship Station License, even if it's in a backyard pond....because the HF
station is INTERNATIONAL on any channel, as required by ITU.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/gmdss.html


http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html
Another note of interest from this website:
"If your vessel requires licensing by the FCC after you have obtained an
MMSI from BoatUS, MariTEL or Sea Tow Service that MMSI cannot be used
during the application/licensing process when you file FCC Form 159 and 605
with the FCC. MMSIs issued by other authorized entities are valid only for
ship stations that do not have FCC-issued licenses. Since the ULS will not
accept the MMSI that was issued by another entity, you should not enter
anything in item 10 on FCC Form 605, Schedule B. Leave this field blank and
the FCC will issue you a new MMSI."

Boat/US MMSIs are useless with FCC licensed stations.....(sigh)

Also from this fctsht14 website is an answer about your unlicensed VHF
walkie talkie being used as a CB on the dock, home, car, etc.:
"MAY I USE MY HAND-HELD MARINE VHF RADIO ON LAND?

You must have a special license, called a marine utility station license,
to operate a hand-held marine radio from land -- a ship station license IS
NOT sufficient. You may apply for this license by filing FCC Form 601 with
the FCC. To be eligible for a marine utility station license, you must
generally provide some sort of service to ships or have control over a
bridge or waterway. Additionally, you must show a need to communicate using
hand-held portable equipment from both a ship and from coast locations.
Each unit must be capable of operation while being hand-carried by an
individual. The station operates under the rules applicable to ship
stations when the unit is aboard a ship, and under the rules applicable to
private coast stations when the unit is on land."

You CANNOT, legally, call your boat from your VHF marine radio on the
beach. You don't have a "Marine Utility License"....

As to the rules about the Commercial Operator's Licenses (GROL with GMDSS
operator's endorsement), the rules are on:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr13_00.html

You'll need, also, a copy of the maritime mobile radio service rules:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_00.html

Voluntary ship license operators under 400 W PEP (all the SSB radios at
150W PEP you guys have), need Restricted Radio Telephone Operator Permits
to operate VOICE on HF.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-
cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=80&SECTION=165&YEAR=2000&TYP E=TEXT

Now......about the GMDSS operator on your LICENSED SHIP STATION.....

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-
cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=80&SECTION=1073&YEAR=2000&TY PE=TEXT

IT says, and I quote:

"[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5, Parts 80 to End]
[Revised as of October 1, 2000]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR80.1073]

[Page 170-171]

TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 80--STATIONS IN THE MARITIME SERVICES--Table of Contents

Subpart W--Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS)

Sec. 80.1073 Radio operator requirements for ship stations.

(a) Ships must carry at least two persons holding GMDSS Radio
Operator's Licenses as specified in Sec. 13.2 of this chapter for
distress and safety radiocommunications purposes. The GMDSS Radio
Operator's License qualifies personnel as GMDSS radio operator for the
purposes of operating GMDSS radio installation, including basic
equipment adjustments as denoted in knowledge requirements specified in
Sec. 13.21 of this chapter.
(1) One of the qualified GMDSS radio operators must be designated to
have

[[Page 171]]

primary responsiblility for radiocommunications during distress
incidents.
(2) A second qualified GMDSS radio operator must be designated as
backup for distress and safety radiocommunications.
(b) A qualified GMDSS radio operator, and a qualified backup, as
specified in paragraph (a) of this section must be:
(1) Available to act as the dedicated radio operator in cases of
distress as described in Sec. 80.1109(a);
(2) Designated to perform as part of normal routine each of the
applicable communications described in Sec. 80.1109(b);
(3) Responsible for selecting HF DSC guard channels and receiving
scheduled maritime safety information broadcasts;
(4) Designated to perform communications described in
Sec. 80.1109(c);
(5) Responsible for ensuring that the watches required by
Sec. 80.1123 are properly maintained; and
(6) Responsible for ensuring that the ship's navigation position is
entered, either manually or automatically through a navigation receiver,
into all installed DSC equipment at least every four hours while the
ship is underway."

Notice that NO PLEASURE BOAT exemptions of any kind exist for the casual
captain with an HF/SSB radio that has GMDSS/DSC radio equipment on the HF
bands (below 30 Mhz) with a Ship License, which is MANDATORY for every boat
with HF/SSB marine band equipment.

'Tis not to poopoo, "Oh, we don't need that because we are a little
sailboat with a GMDSS-equipped HF/SSB radio." By international agreement,
and ITU regulations, ALL GMDSS-EQUIPPED HF/SSB radios are REQUIRED to have,
not one, but TWO LICENSED GMDSS OPERATORS aboard, one of which is, and I
quote once again,

"Available to act as the dedicated radio operator in cases of
distress as described in Sec. 80.1109(a)"

No mention in the GMDSS regulations says anything about a casual "voluntary
ship" (your sailboat) being exempt that I can find. Please quote it if you
find it to enlighten us all.

In the GMDSS question section, it says:

"Can I use my current FCC operator license aboard GMDSS ships?

No. Any person who wants to become a GMDSS radio operator must pass a new
examination to receive the GMDSS license."

This would, also, include the yachtie with a Restricted Radio Telephone
Operator's Permit. GMDSS must NOT be operated by anyone UNTIL he has taken
the element exams for GMDSS operator and has that license in his hands.

Conclusion - Unless you are willing to go to this extreme, do NOT buy an
HF/SSB radio with GMDSS/DSC capabilities for your yacht. You cannot
operate it until two of you have GMDSS Operator Licenses.

Larry

Still interested in getting your GMDSS Operator's License? It's not rocket
science:

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html

Don't press the red button without it....(c;

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

"Jack Painter" wrote in
news:PxKGc.8284$pY2.2932@lakeread01:



Larry, all I could find was information regarding compulsory GMDSS
ships. Is there a listing you are aware of for voluntary-equipped
GMDSS? HF is the issue, of course ;-)

http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/gmdss.html

Jack

See my long other post I just sent.....

There is no differences in voluntary and compulsory ships operating GMDSS
in any regulation I can find, except your voluntary ship isn't required to
have it in the first place.

If you want to operate it, you must comply with all the ship regulations
for it....TWO licensed GMDSS ops, REDUNDANT equipment and all!!

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Rick wrote in
ink.net:

Jack Painter wrote:

Larry, all I could find was information regarding compulsory GMDSS
ships. Is there a listing you are aware of for voluntary-equipped
GMDSS? HF is the issue, of course ;-)

Unless Larry holds, and is required to hold, a current USCG license as
a merchant marine officer with an STCW certificate endorsed as a radio
operator he only holds the GMDSS tickets for ego purposes. No one else
needs one unless they work for a shorebased maintenance firm doing
work on GMDSS equipment on ships. He obviously doesn't understand the
GMDSS system concept and is posting nonsense.

You are posting the nonsense. See my other post and READ THE REGS I posted
there. You must NOT operate any GMDSS on a LICENSED SHIP STATION until you
have the GMDSS Operator's License, even if your boat is a goddamn rowboat!

You must also read the regulations to understand that you do NOT have to be
a STCW radio operator to be a licensed GMDSS operator. READ THE REGS in
references I posted to another responder.....it's all there.

The old unionized radio operators are now a dead issue once compulsory
ships get rid of their Morse equipment. Most ROs are not being renewed in
their cushy union jobs.


If you want reliable information that applies to you and your
particular circumstances just Google "gmdss voluntary station operator
license"

There are plenty of pages. Here is a link that pretty much states what
Larry would have known if he had any training and held the license for
anything other than some kind of redneck ham radio bragging rights:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/cvib-2.doc

Training, Licensing and Certification

The Master and all Mates on SOLAS vessels are now required to hold the
FCC GMDSS Radio Operator?s License (GOC) for Sea Areas A2, A3
(Inmarsat coverage), and A4 (polar regions) or the Restricted GMDSS
Radio Operator?s License (ROC) for operations in Sea Area A1. They
must also hold a Coast Guard STCW 95 GMDSS endorsement. The STCW
endorsement requires mandatory training and demonstrated ability to
operate all GMDSS systems. Most small commercial vessels are not
required to be STCW compliant, however, and are permitted to use any
GMDSS equipment without mandated GMDSS training. Small commercial
vessels mandated to carry radio for safety reasons are required to
hold a radio station license and the appropriate operator permits.
Vessels subject to the Bridge-to-Bridge act are also required to hold
a radio station license.


Old information. CG has turned GMDSS operator and maintainer licensing
over to the FCC. There's a reference to just this point on the FCC
webpages I quoted to another responder.

Larry

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

"Larry W4CSC" wrote
"Jack Painter" wrote in
news:PxKGc.8284$pY2.2932@lakeread01:

Larry, all I could find was information regarding compulsory GMDSS
ships. Is there a listing you are aware of for voluntary-equipped
GMDSS? HF is the issue, of course ;-)

There is no differences in voluntary and compulsory ships operating GMDSS
in any regulation I can find, except your voluntary ship isn't required to
have it in the first place.

If you want to operate it, you must comply with all the ship regulations
for it....TWO licensed GMDSS ops, REDUNDANT equipment and all!!

Larry,

Noting the apparent lack of exception in FCC comments or rulemaking (and
they are indeed the authority on this subject, not the USCG as you pointed
out), there is nonetheless an interesting comment or two by the Ret. USCG
Capt, Chmn of the Implementaton Task Force at
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/rvib-4.doc which states in parts:

GMDSS AND THE RECREATIONAL BOATER 16 May 2002

The FCC action has thus begun a very gradual shift to DSC by requiring new
models of MF and VHF radios sold in the U.S. to have at least a simplified
DSC capability.

Recreational vessels are not required to use DSC in the MF/HF bands and may
continue to use non-DSC MF radios and make voice calls on 2182 kHz if they
hold the necessary Ship Station License issued by the FCC.

(there's a key no-exception point - whether by omission or not, we cannot
assume that no mention of license exception for GMDSS means that they might
have intended one - but it MAY be included in the new
no-questions-asked-all-equipment restricted operators license!)

The new DSC calling identity is the nine digit Maritime Mobile Service
Identity (MMSI) that is
assigned by the FCC to vessels desiring or required to use DSC in the VHF,
MF, and HF maritime radio bands. The way to get an MMSI number assigned is
to apply to the FCC for a radio station license. Station licenses are no
longer required for recreational vessels less that 65 feet in length
operating on VHF exclusively in U.S. waters

(another no-exception for HF GMDSS comment - looking more like they either
missed the boat on this part entirely, or they never meant to exempt it. It
remains confusing , which is in keeping with what I said about NavCenter et
al before.

Anyway, the new operator licenses do "imply" that any equipment volutarily
carried (radar, HF, VHF, etc) does NOT have to be listed, therefore no
license mods are required when equipment is added. THAT implies GMDSS could
be part of the license-suite w/o special GMDSS quals.It is an interesting
issue that salesman and yachtsman alike should be very clear on before
selling owning or operating the equipment.

Jack

GMDSS any type
 

"Larry W4CSC" wrote
There is no differences in voluntary and compulsory ships operating GMDSS
in any regulation I can find, except your voluntary ship isn't required to
have it in the first place.

If you want to operate it, you must comply with all the ship regulations
for it....TWO licensed GMDSS ops, REDUNDANT equipment and all!!


Larry and group:

The same task force letter I quoted from 1992 says:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/rvib-4.doc

False Alerts in GMDSS Systems
/cut/
Compulsory ships are required to carry certified GMDSS operators but
recreational vessels are permitted to use any GMDSS system appropriate for
their operations without any operator qualification.

Since the large percentage of false alerts is attributed to a lack of
operator competence, it is especially important that recreational boaters
receive instruction in the proper operation of GMDSS equipment

Looks pretty clear there - but that is not an authoritatve document of any
kind, just advisory in nature by the Task Force for GMDSS Implementation.
The FCC would be expected to act on those recomendations accordingly, and
may or may not have done so by now. The USCG Auxiliary and US Power
Squadrons are expected by this task force to develop and make instruction
available on GMDSS systems for recreational vessels.

Jack

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:

There is no differences in voluntary and compulsory ships operating GMDSS
in any regulation I can find, except your voluntary ship isn't required to
have it in the first place.

If you want to operate it, you must comply with all the ship regulations
for it....TWO licensed GMDSS ops, REDUNDANT equipment and all!!

I don't know what you have been smoking but you have strange ideas about
radio regs on ships and pleasure boats.

Do you have a GMDSS license of any sort? The FCC seems to think otherwise.

Rick

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:

You are posting the nonsense. See my other post and READ THE REGS I posted
there. You must NOT operate any GMDSS on a LICENSED SHIP STATION until you
have the GMDSS Operator's License, even if your boat is a goddamn rowboat!

Sorry, larry, you missed again. Read the regs or talk to a West Marine
salesman. They know more than you do.

You must also read the regulations to understand that you do NOT have to be
a STCW radio operator to be a licensed GMDSS operator. READ THE REGS in
references I posted to another responder.....it's all there.

If you don't sail as a licensed officer on a ship that requires a GMDSS
installation by international treaty and stand a bridge watch, you do
not need a GMDSS license. If you want to repair GMDSS equipment you need
a maintainer's license. If you are a watchstanding officer who is
required by the Coast Guard to hold a GMDSS license you must also have a
GMDSS endorsement on your STCW certificate.

Any fool can get a GMDSS license, very few NEED one.

The old unionized radio operators are now a dead issue once compulsory
ships get rid of their Morse equipment. Most ROs are not being renewed in
their cushy union jobs.

A little bit jealous are you?

Old information. CG has turned GMDSS operator and maintainer licensing
over to the FCC. There's a reference to just this point on the FCC
webpages I quoted to another responder.

If you knew anything about GMDSS you would know that the FCC has always
handled the licensing. The CG is charge with enforcing the IMO
regulations that established the GMDSS requirements for SOLAS vessels.

And the FCC still doesn't seem to list you as anything other than a ham
radio operator. That would explain why you seem so confused about this
issue.

Rick

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Jack Painter wrote:

Anyway, the new operator licenses do "imply" that any equipment volutarily
carried (radar, HF, VHF, etc) does NOT have to be listed, therefore no
license mods are required when equipment is added. THAT implies GMDSS could
be part of the license-suite w/o special GMDSS quals.It is an interesting
issue that salesman and yachtsman alike should be very clear on before
selling owning or operating the equipment.

An MMSI is an integral part of DSC and the GMDSS, it is kind of hard to
work without a unique indentifier and any vessel will get one for the
asking, licensed, cumpulsory, voluntary, or just a Bayliner with a VHF
DSC unit on an inland lake in Kansas. It will hardly be a Global system
if all vessels are not similarly equipped and any requirement for
commercial licensing would negate all of the benefits of such a valuable
system as GMDSS.

There is no requirement by the FCC or the CG for an operator to hold an
FCC license to operate GMDSS equipment on noncompulsary vessels.

For vessels which are compelled by IMO regulations to carry GMDSS
equipment there is a parallel requirement that watchtstanding officers
aretrained and certified as GMDSS operators. That training is documented
by an endorsement on the officer's STCW certificate.

There are no such rules for pleasure boaters regardless of the type of
equipment installed.

Larry has no clue what he is talking about. The FCC, the only American
authority to issue GMDSS licenses does not list him as a licensed
operator other than in the amateur radio service.

Rick

MMSI
 

"Rick" wrote
An MMSI is an integral part of DSC and the GMDSS, it is kind of hard to
work without a unique indentifier and any vessel will get one for the
asking, licensed, cumpulsory, voluntary, or just a Bayliner with a VHF
DSC unit on an inland lake in Kansas. It will hardly be a Global system
if all vessels are not similarly equipped and any requirement for
commercial licensing would negate all of the benefits of such a valuable
system as GMDSS.

Rick,

Unfortunately, the entire database maintained by BoatUS/West etc turned out
to be useless. It was a great idea and encouraged boaters to be instantly
registered with an MMSI. But that database went nowhere and is of no use to
a Rescue Coordination Center. I do not know what went wrong with that plan,
but only the FCC issued MMSI are considered international, and we certainly
can't maintain dual-systems. If a boater already has a BoatUS MMSI they
should apply to the FCC for a new one.

Jack

MMSI
 

Jack Painter wrote:

Unfortunately, the entire database maintained by BoatUS/West etc turned out
to be useless. It was a great idea and encouraged boaters to be instantly
registered with an MMSI. But that database went nowhere and is of no use to
a Rescue Coordination Center. I do not know what went wrong with that plan,
but only the FCC issued MMSI are considered international, and we certainly
can't maintain dual-systems. If a boater already has a BoatUS MMSI they
should apply to the FCC for a new one.

It must have seemed like a good idea to someone (in WM marketing
probably) but I agree that unless the info is maintained by one
governmental entity it is difficult to see how the system can work properly.

GMDSS has been a bit of a mess since day one in many ways but I cannot
fault the FCC for making the issuance of an MMSI part of the vessel
station license.

It seems like many users do not bother to license a voluntary ship
station so perhaps the manufacturer should preprogram the MMSI in each
unit and the seller would then mail in a card with the purchaser's
information to the FCC.

Rick

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:

To repair GMDSS equipment, there's a repairman's license, too. I hold both
so have an operator/maintainer's license (elements 1,3,7 and 9) called a DB
license.

So how about posting the License number of that "DB" ticket. We can then
go to: http://wireless.fcc.gov/uls/ and select "search licenses" then
"advanced license search" and enter your license number in the
"callsign" block, hit "submit" and see what happens.

Or we could enter W4CSC to get the other info and use that to search for
all license held ...

Rick

MMSI
 

"Rick" wrote
Jack Painter wrote:

Unfortunately, the entire database maintained by BoatUS/West etc turned
out
to be useless. It was a great idea and encouraged boaters to be
instantly
registered with an MMSI. But that database went nowhere and is of no use
to
a Rescue Coordination Center. I do not know what went wrong with that
plan,
but only the FCC issued MMSI are considered international, and we
certainly
can't maintain dual-systems. If a boater already has a BoatUS MMSI they
should apply to the FCC for a new one.

It must have seemed like a good idea to someone (in WM marketing
probably) but I agree that unless the info is maintained by one
governmental entity it is difficult to see how the system can work
properly.

GMDSS has been a bit of a mess since day one in many ways but I cannot
fault the FCC for making the issuance of an MMSI part of the vessel
station license.

It seems like many users do not bother to license a voluntary ship
station so perhaps the manufacturer should preprogram the MMSI in each
unit and the seller would then mail in a card with the purchaser's
information to the FCC.

That's the best idea I agree. And it's so simple that it must confuse the
FCC. Along with that, should be a preventer to retain that MMSI in the
radio, changeable only if the radio was no longer on that registered vessel.
At least a maintainer could be required to seal and date his entry into the
unit, and log why he was there. That might discourage some of the
unauthorized mods to a transmitted MMSI.

It is a common trick for ships to alter the number (for whatever reason we
do not know) and inundate the HF distress frequencies with safety tests (and
USCG reply requested) using all zeroes or 23456789 etc as their ID. If
pleasure boaters on VHF behave anywhere near as badly as professionals have
on HF, then the GMDSS system may be doomed.

Jack

MMSI
 

I think current radios will shut down that function if you enter an MMSI
number more than three times. It just won't let you enter it the fourth
time.

--


Keith
__
"Bachelors know more about women than married men; if they didn't, they'd be
married too." - H. L. Mencken
"Jack Painter" wrote in message
news:D0gHc.498$sj.110@lakeread02...

"Rick" wrote
Jack Painter wrote:

Unfortunately, the entire database maintained by BoatUS/West etc
turned
out
to be useless. It was a great idea and encouraged boaters to be
instantly
registered with an MMSI. But that database went nowhere and is of no
use
to
a Rescue Coordination Center. I do not know what went wrong with that
plan,
but only the FCC issued MMSI are considered international, and we
certainly
can't maintain dual-systems. If a boater already has a BoatUS MMSI
they
should apply to the FCC for a new one.

It must have seemed like a good idea to someone (in WM marketing
probably) but I agree that unless the info is maintained by one
governmental entity it is difficult to see how the system can work
properly.

GMDSS has been a bit of a mess since day one in many ways but I cannot
fault the FCC for making the issuance of an MMSI part of the vessel
station license.

It seems like many users do not bother to license a voluntary ship
station so perhaps the manufacturer should preprogram the MMSI in each
unit and the seller would then mail in a card with the purchaser's
information to the FCC.

That's the best idea I agree. And it's so simple that it must confuse the
FCC. Along with that, should be a preventer to retain that MMSI in the
radio, changeable only if the radio was no longer on that registered
vessel.
At least a maintainer could be required to seal and date his entry into
the
unit, and log why he was there. That might discourage some of the
unauthorized mods to a transmitted MMSI.

It is a common trick for ships to alter the number (for whatever reason we
do not know) and inundate the HF distress frequencies with safety tests
(and
USCG reply requested) using all zeroes or 23456789 etc as their ID. If
pleasure boaters on VHF behave anywhere near as badly as professionals
have
on HF, then the GMDSS system may be doomed.

Jack

MMSI
 

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:56:58 -0400, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

inundate the HF distress frequencies with safety tests

Which reminds me to ask...is there any way to test the distress button
capability on my VHF? I mean a legal way...

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:

You are posting the nonsense. See my other post and READ THE REGS I posted
there. You must NOT operate any GMDSS on a LICENSED SHIP STATION until you
have the GMDSS Operator's License, even if your boat is a goddamn rowboat!

I did read your posts, Larry ... including the ones where you claimed to
have a "DB" license, and how you get all goggle-eyed looking at the
"First Class Radiotelephone" license above your desk, and disgusted you
are at how easy it is for anyone to get a license these days.

You are making your claims in a glass house, Larry.

So how come the FCC database that lists all licenses held, operator and
station, only lists a ham license when I enter:

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsS...chAdvanced.jsp

and type in BUTLER, LARRY E in the name block?

That
Rick

MMSI
 

"Dick Locke" wrote
Which reminds me to ask...is there any way to test the distress button
capability on my VHF? I mean a legal way...

Hi Dick,

The one word answer is Never. But when Rescue-21 is fully implemented, there
may be a way to send a safety test message w/reply requested to a particular
MMSI (ie: USCG, or any ID) on VHF. But pressing and holding the "DISTRESS"
button alone will never be allowed for "testing". That will initiate
callouts on Ch-16 and start a SAR case rolling. It already happens in my
local area once or twice a month, and the operator inevitably claims "the
thing just went off, sorry". The thing will go off when the plastic cover
is lifted, and the distress button held down for at least three seconds. I
guess we wll always here about how guns "just went off" too... ;-)

Best regards,

Jack

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:

To keep my captain from being arrested, when I leave the boat, I toggle it
back to marine-channels-only transmit...(c;


Hey, Larry, who keeps you from being arrested? According to the FCC
license database neither you nor "your captain" hold any kind of license
that allows you to operate that Icom.

The boat has a station license (WDB6254) but if "your captain" is also
the owner and licensee Geoffrey you guys had better have someone aboard
who is licensed to operate that radio ...

Did the FCC miss something Larry?

Rick

Modifying Icom IC-M800
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:

Here I'll give you some help. The ONLY people who should operate the HF
SSB radio are those who are WELL EDUCATED in its use. Each operator in the
USA is REQUIRED to have a "Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit" to
be legal.

So who has one of those on "Lionheart"? According to the FCC the owner
doesn't and neither do you ...

There seems to be something missing here, Larry. For all your talk about
following the rules and requirements and moaning about how it is now too
easy to get a worthless piece of paper compared to what you have, how
come the FCC doesn't list you as having anything besides a ham license?

Is the FCC missing something?

Rick