GPS Plotters - discussion
 

I am sure that this has already been done but new models are constantly
being produced so... why not?
Your experience is very appreciated regarding:
1) screen dimension
2) Color or B/W
3) speed of screen refreshing
4) different cartographic systems/media
5) reliability
....
all points vs price, of course.

Thanks
Daniel

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

Daniel wrote:
I am sure that this has already been done but new models are
constantly being produced so... why not?
Your experience is very appreciated regarding:
1) screen dimension
2) Color or B/W
3) speed of screen refreshing
4) different cartographic systems/media
5) reliability
...
all points vs price, of course.

Thanks
Daniel

Most serious digital navigation officioados use laptops or PC's with TFT
panels. These plotters are so puny in comparison, and you pay the earth for
a dedicated device that will do nothing else but show an almost invisible
arrow on a screen barely bigger than your hand, And the resolution is total
crap!

Wiil this do for starters?

Remove "nospam" from return address.

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

Well I don't know if I would go as far as Dennis.
I have a Garmin 182C at my steering pedestal for instant reference. Kind of
hard to do with a laptop. I also have a connection down below so that I can
use it to plan while anchored/tied.
Screen resolution is excellent, just as good as a laptop. Colour is very
good but I wouldn't say it was essential. I would say the 182 has the
minimum useable screen size. I don't know how anyone navigates on a PDA.
Bigger is always better. Screen refresh is not instantaneous but I don't
find it a problem, maybe 1 second.
If you don't have a good laptop, and I don't, by the time you buy one and
purchase the navigation software I think you are up into the chartplotter
price range (not for the same size screen I have to admit).

"Dennis Pogson" wrote in message
news:1XCtc.4$984.2@newsfe5-win...
Daniel wrote:
I am sure that this has already been done but new models are
constantly being produced so... why not?
Your experience is very appreciated regarding:
1) screen dimension
2) Color or B/W
3) speed of screen refreshing
4) different cartographic systems/media
5) reliability
...
all points vs price, of course.

Thanks
Daniel

Most serious digital navigation officioados use laptops or PC's with TFT
panels. These plotters are so puny in comparison, and you pay the earth
for
a dedicated device that will do nothing else but show an almost invisible
arrow on a screen barely bigger than your hand, And the resolution is
total
crap!

Wiil this do for starters?

Remove "nospam" from return address.

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

"Dennis Pogson" wrote in message
news:1XCtc.4$984.2@newsfe5-win...
Daniel wrote:
I am sure that this has already been done but new models are
constantly being produced so... why not?
Your experience is very appreciated regarding:
1) screen dimension
2) Color or B/W
3) speed of screen refreshing
4) different cartographic systems/media
5) reliability
...
all points vs price, of course.

Thanks
Daniel

Most serious digital navigation officioados use laptops or PC's with TFT
panels.

Lowrance uses TFT panels on their Chartplotters.

These plotters are so puny in comparison,

Up to 10.4" versus 14.1" for the average laptop panel. Not to far off.

and you pay the earth for
a dedicated device

And with the laptop you will also have to purchase some "dedicated" hardware
and software just to make it useable in this capacity.

that will do nothing else but show an almost invisible
arrow on a screen barely bigger than your hand,

If you are trying to view from 5' away then I totally agree with you. But
when located and mounted properly, even a handheld GPS/Plotter with a 3.5"
screen is perfectly viewable. Always mount the unit where you need it, and
this is hard to do with a laptop unless you purchase a special waterproof
unit for even more bucks. Most, but by no means all, of your "serious
digital navigation afficioados"(sic) will use the laptop for planning
purposes in a controlled environment (i.e. the cabin or at home), rather
than in an exposed area for the actual running, and load the data to the
dedicated Chartplotter for use.

And the resolution is total
crap!

See your previous statement and my answer! (Funny thing is that my old high
school teachers would have determined that these two sentances consist of a
double negative, and was therefore a false statement that actually proved
the opposite!)

Wiil this do for starters?

No.

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

"Daniel" wrote in message
...
I am sure that this has already been done but new models are constantly
being produced so... why not?
Your experience is very appreciated regarding:

My experience consists of inland waters fishing use only, so with that out
of the way:

1) screen dimension
2) Color or B/W

I'll answer both of these at the same time. I am currently using a 5" B/W
unit that I have had for several years, Lowrance 4800m, and find this to be
a very tractable unit that more than meets any of my needs. My best fishing
bud recieved a Lowrance 3300c, 5" screen, for Christmas. This is essentially
the color version of the 4800m, with the only real difference being screen
resolution. The 4800m has a 480Vx480H display for a total pixel count of
over 230,000, while his 3300c has a 320Vx240H display for a total of over
76,000 pixels.
When we put the units side by side, we both can see that my B/W unit has the
much sharper display, but his appears to be just as good because of the
inclusion of color. After all, we see in color, so we interpret images
better when seen in color, even when the resolution is a bit lower.
Answer - I now want a color unit, but the budget and the wife have nixed
that idea. So I will be keeping my ancient B/W for at least a couple of
years, and I know that it will continue to preform perfectly during that
time.

3) speed of screen refreshing

Owning or using, with friends, units by Lowrance, RayMarine, Garmin, Eagle
and Humminbird, they mostly seem to use an approx. 1 second screen refresh.
This has proven to be more than needed, even on a high speed run across any
lake that we have been on, including Lake Michigan.

4) different cartographic systems/media

Have only used Navionics HotMaps for inland waters, with MapCreate software
as a backup for lakes that are not in the HotMaps digital media memory
cards. There are others out there, but I have no experience with them. My
two tier system has worked out very well for my purposes.

5) reliability

Stay away from Eagle, period. Even though Eagle is a division of Lowrance,
they seem to have major problems with reliability in all areas from
waterproofness through screen problems, and even their electronics, that
Lowrance does not have. Everyone I know, no matter what brand they own,
except the Eagle owners, are happy with them, with the possible exception of
the Humminbird owners. They cannot tell me what real problems they have, but
none of them seem real happy with their units. The two RayMarine owners
(both have the RC435 with a 6" screen) that I know are extremely pleased
with their units, even happier than I am with my Lowrance.
Just taking into account how people talk about their units, I would rate
them as follows;
1 - RayMarine
2 - Lowrance
3 - Garmin
4 - Humminbird
5 - Eagle
(Note: I know of no one with a Furuno, but I would expect this brand to be
somewhere above the Garmin brand on this list)
There are other brands than these, but no matter what your usage I would
recommend a brand with as far reaching sales/service system, just in case
:-)

...
all points vs price, of course.

As a comparison, current street price for;
Lowrance 4800m = $400.00
Lowrance 3300c = $500.00
RayMarine RC435 = $900.00


Thanks
Daniel

Bob
A day without being on the water is just like being at work!

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

Lowrance and Eagle are the same company.
Doug K7ABX
"Bob" wrote in message
news:2IOtc.2554$3x.1026@attbi_s54...

"Daniel" wrote in message
...
I am sure that this has already been done but new models are constantly
being produced so... why not?
Your experience is very appreciated regarding:

My experience consists of inland waters fishing use only, so with that out
of the way:

1) screen dimension
2) Color or B/W

I'll answer both of these at the same time. I am currently using a 5" B/W
unit that I have had for several years, Lowrance 4800m, and find this to
be
a very tractable unit that more than meets any of my needs. My best
fishing
bud recieved a Lowrance 3300c, 5" screen, for Christmas. This is
essentially
the color version of the 4800m, with the only real difference being screen
resolution. The 4800m has a 480Vx480H display for a total pixel count of
over 230,000, while his 3300c has a 320Vx240H display for a total of over
76,000 pixels.
When we put the units side by side, we both can see that my B/W unit has
the
much sharper display, but his appears to be just as good because of the
inclusion of color. After all, we see in color, so we interpret images
better when seen in color, even when the resolution is a bit lower.
Answer - I now want a color unit, but the budget and the wife have nixed
that idea. So I will be keeping my ancient B/W for at least a couple of
years, and I know that it will continue to preform perfectly during that
time.

3) speed of screen refreshing

Owning or using, with friends, units by Lowrance, RayMarine, Garmin, Eagle
and Humminbird, they mostly seem to use an approx. 1 second screen
refresh.
This has proven to be more than needed, even on a high speed run across
any
lake that we have been on, including Lake Michigan.

4) different cartographic systems/media

Have only used Navionics HotMaps for inland waters, with MapCreate
software
as a backup for lakes that are not in the HotMaps digital media memory
cards. There are others out there, but I have no experience with them. My
two tier system has worked out very well for my purposes.

5) reliability

Stay away from Eagle, period. Even though Eagle is a division of Lowrance,
they seem to have major problems with reliability in all areas from
waterproofness through screen problems, and even their electronics, that
Lowrance does not have. Everyone I know, no matter what brand they own,
except the Eagle owners, are happy with them, with the possible exception
of
the Humminbird owners. They cannot tell me what real problems they have,
but
none of them seem real happy with their units. The two RayMarine owners
(both have the RC435 with a 6" screen) that I know are extremely pleased
with their units, even happier than I am with my Lowrance.
Just taking into account how people talk about their units, I would rate
them as follows;
1 - RayMarine
2 - Lowrance
3 - Garmin
4 - Humminbird
5 - Eagle
(Note: I know of no one with a Furuno, but I would expect this brand to be
somewhere above the Garmin brand on this list)
There are other brands than these, but no matter what your usage I would
recommend a brand with as far reaching sales/service system, just in case
:-)

...
all points vs price, of course.

As a comparison, current street price for;
Lowrance 4800m = $400.00
Lowrance 3300c = $500.00
RayMarine RC435 = $900.00


Thanks
Daniel

Bob
A day without being on the water is just like being at work!

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

I think that I already knew that.

"Doug" wrote in message
ink.net...
Lowrance and Eagle are the same company.
Doug K7ABX


5) reliability

Stay away from Eagle, period. Even though Eagle is a division of
Lowrance,
they seem to have major problems with reliability in all areas from


Bob

Bob
(again)

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

Gordon Wedman wrote:
Well I don't know if I would go as far as Dennis.
I have a Garmin 182C at my steering pedestal for instant reference.
Kind of hard to do with a laptop. I also have a connection down
below so that I can use it to plan while anchored/tied.
Screen resolution is excellent, just as good as a laptop. Colour is
very good but I wouldn't say it was essential. I would say the 182
has the minimum useable screen size. I don't know how anyone
navigates on a PDA. Bigger is always better. Screen refresh is not
instantaneous but I don't find it a problem, maybe 1 second.
If you don't have a good laptop, and I don't, by the time you buy one
and purchase the navigation software I think you are up into the
chartplotter price range (not for the same size screen I have to
admit).

Maybe the chartplotters I have seen are not the latest technology, and I am
therefore biased in my views, but it seems to me that with a huge range of
available software, with a laptop you can choose the best, or what is best
for you personally, and discard the rest.

Ideally, the screen should be the same size as the paper chart, but even
with plasma screens this is impossible, if not prohibitively expensive, but
with modern laptop screens available in wide-angle, now up to 17" diagonal,
and the fantastic resolutions now available, it is possible to view a
full-size reproduction digital chart without a vast amount of panning, and
the zoom facility allows more of the chart to be displayed and seen at one
viewing.

Dedicated chartplotters will always have their enthusiasts, but to me the
technology tends to follow, rather than lead the laptop/tft/plasma
technology, and with laptops prices now falling to unprecedented levels,
this seems the way to go.

I need hardly mention the ability to take the laptop off the boat at the end
of each trip, which does decrease the risk of having one's navigation system
stolen!

Dennis.

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

Well, thank you, you gave me some new ideas.
In particular the possibility to use a laptop. I have an old HP with
W95 which would actually be available for sailing with me!
Does anyone ave suggestions on how to read NEMEA through the serial port
and which kind of cartography would be better?

Daniel

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

Well, thank you, you gave me some new ideas.
In particular the possibility to use a laptop. I have an old HP with
W95 which would actually be available for sailing with me!
Does anyone ave suggestions on how to read NEMEA through the serial port
and which kind of cartography would be better?

Daniel

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

On Thu, 27 May 2004 08:09:17 GMT, Daniel wrote:

I am sure that this has already been done but new models are constantly
being produced so... why not?
Your experience is very appreciated regarding:
1) screen dimension
2) Color or B/W
3) speed of screen refreshing
4) different cartographic systems/media
5) reliability
...
all points vs price, of course.

Thanks
Daniel

I currnetly have two - a Garmin 168 combo unit and a Bottom Line 1200 fish
finder. The Garmin is in a small runabout and provides GPS and navigation
information along with bottom soundings. The Bottom Line is battery
operated and provides a normal down transducer along with a pointable side
shooting transducer.

The Garmin is a decent unit, but suffers, as do most from poor readability
in direct sunlight. If I shield it, it is a bit better, but it still
suffers from poor contrast as do most units. The GPS section is pretty
good and the navigation information is actually rather good - you can buy
CDROMs and program the unit from them. Since, I think, all GPS units
provide you with location coordinates, you can plot your course on a chart
if you feel more comfortable doing so. I differ from Dennis, in that I
don't think the wheel is a place where you need a large screen - I think a
pilot needs to keep his eyes ahead and use bottom & nav info as an aid
only. Bear in mind, my current little boat is a jet boat with 12" draft
and no screw, so I can set a warning on the Garmin at 3' and not worry too
much about it. If there were underwater hazards, I'd probably ride right
over them without sustaining a lot of damage, although I try to be careful.


For fishing, nothing beats a side shooter. That little unit is really
amazing - you can point it where you want to cast and it tells you if there
are any fish there. The display has poor contrast in direct sunlight, but
it's usable.

If I ever get a larger boat, I'll probably replace the Garmin, but I don't
think color is as important as is legibility and contrast. Whichever unit
is easiest to read without reflections and in direct sunlight, that's what
I'll get. I couldn't see the screen on the Garmin before I bought it, but
I will the next one.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

On Sat, 29 May 2004 20:07:41 GMT, Daniel
wrote:

Well, thank you, you gave me some new ideas.
In particular the possibility to use a laptop. I have an old HP with
W95 which would actually be available for sailing with me!
Does anyone ave suggestions on how to read NEMEA through the serial port
and which kind of cartography would be better?

Daniel


I use Ozi Explorer - it will use the common BSB-format nautical
charts, or you can scan your paper charts and calibrate them in Ozi
(it handles most graphic formats).

There is a free mapping program called "SeaClear" - there are links to
both programs, and info on the NMEA-0183 data format, on my GPS/NMEA
web site listed below.


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

I need hardly mention the ability to take the laptop off the boat at the
end
of each trip, which does decrease the risk of having one's navigation
system
stolen!

Well I have my Garmin on a RAM mount and put it below after each sail. I
could easily take it home but since I live on my boat its already home g.

Another thing about having the plotter at the helm, you get nav info like
VMG, ETA, etc. Pushing 3 buttons brings up a tide chart and gives me a
quick indication of where thats at. I'm not fussy about leaving the wheel
and going down below every time I want to check postion, speed, etc.
Someone else mentioned they didn't like chart plotters at the helm because
of the distraction. This is true, I've found myself studying the plotter
when I should be paying attention to other boats around me. Having said
this, how distracting would it be to go down below to study a laptop?


"Dennis Pogson" wrote in message
news:QNYtc.24$wk7.0@newsfe2-win...
Gordon Wedman wrote:
Well I don't know if I would go as far as Dennis.
I have a Garmin 182C at my steering pedestal for instant reference.
Kind of hard to do with a laptop. I also have a connection down
below so that I can use it to plan while anchored/tied.
Screen resolution is excellent, just as good as a laptop. Colour is
very good but I wouldn't say it was essential. I would say the 182
has the minimum useable screen size. I don't know how anyone
navigates on a PDA. Bigger is always better. Screen refresh is not
instantaneous but I don't find it a problem, maybe 1 second.
If you don't have a good laptop, and I don't, by the time you buy one
and purchase the navigation software I think you are up into the
chartplotter price range (not for the same size screen I have to
admit).

Maybe the chartplotters I have seen are not the latest technology, and I
am
therefore biased in my views, but it seems to me that with a huge range of
available software, with a laptop you can choose the best, or what is best
for you personally, and discard the rest.

Ideally, the screen should be the same size as the paper chart, but even
with plasma screens this is impossible, if not prohibitively expensive,
but
with modern laptop screens available in wide-angle, now up to 17"
diagonal,
and the fantastic resolutions now available, it is possible to view a
full-size reproduction digital chart without a vast amount of panning, and
the zoom facility allows more of the chart to be displayed and seen at one
viewing.

Dedicated chartplotters will always have their enthusiasts, but to me the
technology tends to follow, rather than lead the laptop/tft/plasma
technology, and with laptops prices now falling to unprecedented levels,
this seems the way to go.

I need hardly mention the ability to take the laptop off the boat at the
end
of each trip, which does decrease the risk of having one's navigation
system
stolen!

Dennis.

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

Daniel wrote in message ...
I am sure that this has already been done but new models are constantly
being produced so... why not?
Your experience is very appreciated regarding:
1) screen dimension
2) Color or B/W
3) speed of screen refreshing
4) different cartographic systems/media
5) reliability
...
all points vs price, of course.

Thanks
Daniel


I have been considering the options for chartplotting from a different
perspective. I am building a 40' sailboat with outboard power and will
be very limited in battery charging potential. I am trying to control
electrical power demands in all ways. While a laptop PC based system
is attractive to me the power demands appear to be too large.
Investigating stand alone plotters the power demands vary quite a bit.
I suppose this is related to screen size and how fast the processors
are running, this would apply to laptops also. I have seen a range of
from less than an amp to a couple amps for large plotters and laptops.
A couple amps for a day long passage would be excessive. I will have
solar panels and a wind generator but I need to conserve power where I
can. PC based systems now can incorporate everything including radar,
fishfinders, plotting, engine instruments etc but it might be more
energy efficient to have small independant systems that can be
switched on or not depending on need. Just thinking outloud here.

my boatbuilding website:

www.thegreatsea.com

GPS Plotters - discussion
 

Heres my 2p worth:

I navigated from Italy to Singapore using a ARCS charts on a laptop PC
'installed' at the chart table... and loved it. However, I also recorded
my position on a paper chart at each watch change as a backup (and I needed
to). I also entered all my PC way points manually into my GPS so that a
helm repeater could display bearings, cross track error, etc..

Halfway down the Red Sea my laptop hard drive failed. I discovered that
regular backups are no help if you don't carry a spare hard drive. My PC
setup was out of action for over a thousand miles and, because my backup
regime was not good enough, I lost all my chartplotter records of the first
part of the trip.

I particularly enjoyed being able to see my position on a screen when coming
into unknown anchorages (taking care to compare what it displayed with what
I could see and with a paper chart). My biggest dislike was having to leave
the wheel and go below to do that:

Go below.. choose a feature on the chart... go up... find it visually...
take a bearing... go below... plot it... choose a second feature... go
up...take a bearing... go down... plot it ... etc, etc.... (but faster than
plotting on paper)

Summing up, its only real advantages we a) to help passage planning; and
b) to reduce the need to transfer a GPS position to a paper chart... but I
still loved it!

Since then I have installed a GPS Chartplotter at the helm (Standard Horizon
CP150 mono). It has a small monochrome display which I find perfectly
adequate, and it saves me the regular trips below. I still use the PC for
planning and to record my position logs and, on my next long trip, I will
still record positions on a paper chart..

However, if I had to choose only one, then in the light of experience I
would go with the chartplotter at the helm. Having the information that
electronic navigation can give you really comes into it's own when available
at the helm!

Good Luck, fair winds

Twig