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2 kw radarbeam
There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar
(16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. |
2 kw radarbeam
Aron Tvedt wrote:
There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar (16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. Surely it depends on the voltage at which the 2KW beam is generated? Remove "nospam" from return address. |
2 kw radarbeam
Also consider that the radar sends a pulse of a couple of microseconds so
it's not continuous power drain. Regards Al "Aron Tvedt" wrote in message ... There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar (16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. |
2 kw radarbeam
aha, Amp=W/V?
"Dennis Pogson" skrev i melding news:EAi0c.974$vY.636@newsfe1-win... Aron Tvedt wrote: There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar (16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. Surely it depends on the voltage at which the 2KW beam is generated? Remove "nospam" from return address. |
2 kw radarbeam
Your radar is only transmitting 2000 watts for a very short time, maybe a
microsecond. It also is only transmitting for less than maybe 1% of the time, so the average power at 1% would only be 12 watts. "Aron Tvedt" wrote in message ... There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar (16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. |
2 kw radarbeam
doh....20 watts
"phil" wrote in message news:drm0c.439369$na.1050869@attbi_s04... Your radar is only transmitting 2000 watts for a very short time, maybe a microsecond. It also is only transmitting for less than maybe 1% of the time, so the average power at 1% would only be 12 watts. "Aron Tvedt" wrote in message ... There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar (16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. |
2 kw radarbeam
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:44:53 +0100, "Aron Tvedt"
wrote: There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar (16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. Radar uses a pulsed transmission, and the advertised power is the peak power during a pulse. Since a radar actually transmits for much less than 1% of the time, the average power consumption is much less than 1% of the advertised power - for one 2KW radar I had, I calculated that the average power used by the transmitter was only 1 watt! The fuse in the power feed to that set was only 2.1 amps, and I could run the radar for hours on a sailboat (while sailing) with no concern about running out of power. Most radars will use more power for the display, and to turn the antenna, that for the transmitter. -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb (at) interchange.ubc.ca new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
2 kw radarbeam
THe JRC 1500 has three pulse widths. The fastest is .08uS (.00000008
second) at 2,250 Hz (.000444 second). That means the pulse is about 1/5550 of the cycle. The slowest is .8 uS at 600 Hz or about 1/2000 of a cycle. Most of the rest of the time a capacitor/inductor circuit stores up power at a low rate and then blast it out all at one time. Aron Tvedt wrote: There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar (16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
2 kw radarbeam
I work on weather radars that have up to 250kiloWatts out.
this is a peak value. with the pulse widths we use it's actually only an average of 120Watts or so out. Now, don't think that since you have 200W speakers and are safe standing in front of them, that you are safe sitting in front of your 20W (average) radar. Just a note for safety...exposure times and all..... "Aron Tvedt" wrote in message ... There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar (16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. |
2 kw radarbeam
The 2KW is PEAK power, only during the very short radar pulse. The
average power is very low because the time in between pulses is very long, in comparison to the pulse. If you measure the DC power applied to the radar, you'll only get a few amps of DC power because of this. Power is stored in what is called a "pulse forming network" so the magnetron has a charged source of power to pull the big pulse of current from. This is why there are no big DC cables going up the mast to power it. The electronics fires the stored power through the magnetron, very quickly, producing a very narrow pulse time, which is why you can see that bouy so close to the boat. You'll have no problem powering even the 8KW radar from any alternator...... On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:44:53 +0100, "Aron Tvedt" wrote: There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar (16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. Larry W4CSC No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH! Kirk Out..... |
2 kw radarbeam
Yes, I am very aware of that after standing on the deck fishing. Forgot
about the radar, and got a headace. It got away when I switched it off. thanks "SB" skrev i melding e.rogers.com... I work on weather radars that have up to 250kiloWatts out. this is a peak value. with the pulse widths we use it's actually only an average of 120Watts or so out. Now, don't think that since you have 200W speakers and are safe standing in front of them, that you are safe sitting in front of your 20W (average) radar. Just a note for safety...exposure times and all..... "Aron Tvedt" wrote in message ... There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar (16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. |
2 kw radarbeam
Do these little guys use magnetrons??
not much for power....would this use some sort of tube?? "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... The 2KW is PEAK power, only during the very short radar pulse. The average power is very low because the time in between pulses is very long, in comparison to the pulse. If you measure the DC power applied to the radar, you'll only get a few amps of DC power because of this. Power is stored in what is called a "pulse forming network" so the magnetron has a charged source of power to pull the big pulse of current from. This is why there are no big DC cables going up the mast to power it. The electronics fires the stored power through the magnetron, very quickly, producing a very narrow pulse time, which is why you can see that bouy so close to the boat. You'll have no problem powering even the 8KW radar from any alternator...... On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:44:53 +0100, "Aron Tvedt" wrote: There is something I dont understand about radars. I have a JRC 1500 radar (16 miles), in according to the manual, the antenna is supposed to send out a radarbeam of 2000 watt. My engines (yanmar 4lha htp) generator produses 12v 80A (1120watt). I dont use the radar all the time, but if I did, would the engine be able to produse enough power to my batteries? Some experienced sailors say my radar cannot have an effect of 2000watt. It is the same effect of an electical owen. Larry W4CSC No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH! Kirk Out..... |
2 kw radarbeam
They use magnetrons in 1 KW to 10 KW range, depending on unit design.
Doug K7ABX "SB" wrote in message le.rogers.com... Do these little guys use magnetrons?? not much for power....would this use some sort of tube?? |
2 kw radarbeam
On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 23:01:21 GMT, "SB" wrote:
Do these little guys use magnetrons?? not much for power....would this use some sort of tube?? Yes, they do. Magnetrons are both oscillator and amplifier and frequency controller. They are extremely efficient at putting out a very narrow pulse of very high powered RF energy. Any FAA long-range radar site has another similar device on S-Band, the amplitron. It takes the powerful pulse of the magentron and amplifies it into the megawatt range! The magnetron in our 2KW Raymarine is a tiny little thing with a tiny little filament to hold down the power drain. Every microwave oven in the world has a magnetron firing 50 to 60 times per second into its cooking cavity. They are also dirt cheap, which is why the marine industry loves them....(c; Larry W4CSC No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH! Kirk Out..... |
2 kw radarbeam
What 'primes' the magnetron on these systems?
A maggie will do the work at ampin up the input and all, but I thought there was a certain threshold you had to achieve before it could to it's work properly. In some of our old systems we used thyrtrons to bring up the power a bit (volts/current?? not sure) and then the maggie would jack it up and kick it out. The cavity of our maggies can be adjusted for the frequency you are putting out, but we also have some external compnents that assist with that and with the firing rate. We've gone completely solid state in a black box...so that's a s much as I know about it!! haha Fun stuff though! I used to have to shave my head....might be age...or exposure...but if I keep working on these I won't have to anymore. OH, and my tan as gotten a lot better! j/k "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 23:01:21 GMT, "SB" wrote: Do these little guys use magnetrons?? not much for power....would this use some sort of tube?? Yes, they do. Magnetrons are both oscillator and amplifier and frequency controller. They are extremely efficient at putting out a very narrow pulse of very high powered RF energy. Any FAA long-range radar site has another similar device on S-Band, the amplitron. It takes the powerful pulse of the magentron and amplifies it into the megawatt range! The magnetron in our 2KW Raymarine is a tiny little thing with a tiny little filament to hold down the power drain. Every microwave oven in the world has a magnetron firing 50 to 60 times per second into its cooking cavity. They are also dirt cheap, which is why the marine industry loves them....(c; Larry W4CSC No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH! Kirk Out..... |
2 kw radarbeam
In article
ogers.com, "SB" wrote: Do these little guys use magnetrons?? not much for power....would this use some sort of tube?? ALL small boat Radars use Magnitrons. Yes, they are a Vacumn tube. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
2 kw radarbeam
In article gers.com,
"SB" wrote: The cavity of our maggies can be adjusted for the frequency you are putting out, but we also have some external compnents that assist with that and with the firing rate. Variable Frequency Magnitorns are not allowed in the Maritime Mobile Radio Service in the USA. All of the Type Accepted Radars in the US use fixed Frequency Magnitrons. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
2 kw radarbeam
Question:
In the days of yore, did early marine radars ever use klystrons? We used them in (very) early microwave communications systems. They were a bear to keep on frequency, and didn't last long. Maggies are interesting devices. If you've ever torn one apart, it mostly looks like a machined hunk of steel, which in fact it is, and surprisingly small. The magnets account for most of the weight. As to power, I recall that our airborne radar had a peak power output of 2 megaWatts, but the maggie current was only 18 - 20 milliamps. Of course the high voltage was 20 kV. What kind of maggie power supply (voltage & current) is normally found in small marine radars these days? Norm |
2 kw radarbeam
In article ,
engsol wrote: Question: In the days of yore, did early marine radars ever use klystrons? We used them in (very) early microwave communications systems. They were a bear to keep on frequency, and didn't last long. Maggies are interesting devices. If you've ever torn one apart, it mostly looks like a machined hunk of steel, which in fact it is, and surprisingly small. The magnets account for most of the weight. As to power, I recall that our airborne radar had a peak power output of 2 megaWatts, but the maggie current was only 18 - 20 milliamps. Of course the high voltage was 20 kV. What kind of maggie power supply (voltage & current) is normally found in small marine radars these days? Norm Back before Gunn Diode LO's, all radars used Klystrons as Receiver LO's. All the early Commercial Radars that came on the market after WWII used Klystrons as receiver LO's. 2K25 comes to mind but don't hold me to that. Now days the radar receivers use LNA/MMIC's for FrontEnds with intergrile solidstate LO's driving Double Balanced Active Mixers. This is why Radars these days can see 48 and 72 miles with less than 6Kw Maggies. Back in the bad old days it took 20 and sometimes 40Kw to see out 72 miles, because the receivers were KLystron feed Crystal Diode Mixers with Sky High Noise Figures. Receivers have become orders of Magnitude more sensitive than 2nd and 3rd generation receivers of the 70's and 80's. Your Tax dollars at work. (US MIlitary Electronics Development Dollars) V and A for common Maggies are in the 2Kv- 3Kv range with peak currents of an amp, and up to 2 amps PEAK. This all compes from the Pulse Forming Network that is usually feed by a switching powersupply up in the T/R Pan that runs on 10-40 VDC Ships Mains, or some such variation of Power supply for the Radar. 9M502 and 9M503 come to mind for common 3-5 Kw maggies, with the old 2J42 for the 9 - 10 Kw versions. Haven't kept up on the state of the art for the last 7 or so years, but the basic's haven't changed all that much in the Tx side of the Antenna Pan. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
2 kw radarbeam
Newer equipment having to meet tighter European spurious emission
requirements in the past couple years have seen some fightening of manufacturers tolerance on magnetrons or in some cases, even requiring equipment manufacturers to upgrade current model with new magnetrons, circulators, limiters, etc. Doug K7ABX "Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , engsol wrote: Question: In the days of yore, did early marine radars ever use klystrons? We used them in (very) early microwave communications systems. They were a bear to keep on frequency, and didn't last long. Maggies are interesting devices. If you've ever torn one apart, it mostly looks like a machined hunk of steel, which in fact it is, and surprisingly small. The magnets account for most of the weight. As to power, I recall that our airborne radar had a peak power output of 2 megaWatts, but the maggie current was only 18 - 20 milliamps. Of course the high voltage was 20 kV. What kind of maggie power supply (voltage & current) is normally found in small marine radars these days? Norm Back before Gunn Diode LO's, all radars used Klystrons as Receiver LO's. All the early Commercial Radars that came on the market after WWII used Klystrons as receiver LO's. 2K25 comes to mind but don't hold me to that. Now days the radar receivers use LNA/MMIC's for FrontEnds with intergrile solidstate LO's driving Double Balanced Active Mixers. This is why Radars these days can see 48 and 72 miles with less than 6Kw Maggies. Back in the bad old days it took 20 and sometimes 40Kw to see out 72 miles, because the receivers were KLystron feed Crystal Diode Mixers with Sky High Noise Figures. Receivers have become orders of Magnitude more sensitive than 2nd and 3rd generation receivers of the 70's and 80's. Your Tax dollars at work. (US MIlitary Electronics Development Dollars) V and A for common Maggies are in the 2Kv- 3Kv range with peak currents of an amp, and up to 2 amps PEAK. This all compes from the Pulse Forming Network that is usually feed by a switching powersupply up in the T/R Pan that runs on 10-40 VDC Ships Mains, or some such variation of Power supply for the Radar. 9M502 and 9M503 come to mind for common 3-5 Kw maggies, with the old 2J42 for the 9 - 10 Kw versions. Haven't kept up on the state of the art for the last 7 or so years, but the basic's haven't changed all that much in the Tx side of the Antenna Pan. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
2 kw radarbeam
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:47:59 GMT, Bruce in Alaska wrote:
In article , engsol wrote: Question: In the days of yore, did early marine radars ever use klystrons? We used them in (very) early microwave communications systems. They were a bear to keep on frequency, and didn't last long. Maggies are interesting devices. If you've ever torn one apart, it mostly looks like a machined hunk of steel, which in fact it is, and surprisingly small. The magnets account for most of the weight. As to power, I recall that our airborne radar had a peak power output of 2 megaWatts, but the maggie current was only 18 - 20 milliamps. Of course the high voltage was 20 kV. What kind of maggie power supply (voltage & current) is normally found in small marine radars these days? Norm Back before Gunn Diode LO's, all radars used Klystrons as Receiver LO's. All the early Commercial Radars that came on the market after WWII used Klystrons as receiver LO's. 2K25 comes to mind but don't hold me to that. Now days the radar receivers use LNA/MMIC's for FrontEnds with intergrile solidstate LO's driving Double Balanced Active Mixers. This is why Radars these days can see 48 and 72 miles with less than 6Kw Maggies. Back in the bad old days it took 20 and sometimes 40Kw to see out 72 miles, because the receivers were KLystron feed Crystal Diode Mixers with Sky High Noise Figures. Receivers have become orders of Magnitude more sensitive than 2nd and 3rd generation receivers of the 70's and 80's. Your Tax dollars at work. (US MIlitary Electronics Development Dollars) V and A for common Maggies are in the 2Kv- 3Kv range with peak currents of an amp, and up to 2 amps PEAK. This all compes from the Pulse Forming Network that is usually feed by a switching powersupply up in the T/R Pan that runs on 10-40 VDC Ships Mains, or some such variation of Power supply for the Radar. 9M502 and 9M503 come to mind for common 3-5 Kw maggies, with the old 2J42 for the 9 - 10 Kw versions. Haven't kept up on the state of the art for the last 7 or so years, but the basic's haven't changed all that much in the Tx side of the Antenna Pan. Bruce in alaska Thanks much Bruce...very helpful info. And I forgot about those diode mixers in the rx front end. 1N34? Was that the one? Norm |
2 kw radarbeam
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:52:46 -0800, engsol
wrote: Thanks much Bruce...very helpful info. And I forgot about those diode mixers in the rx front end. 1N34? Was that the one? Norm 1N60. Looked like a little white ceramic 22-cal cartridge. You could pull off the big end and have two pins to plug into some UHF applications. In the radar receivers, it plugged right into the waveguide, 1/4 wavelength from the end of the receiver cavity, protected by a gas tube that fired and shorted out the RF while the transmitter was on the air. Larry W4CSC No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH! Kirk Out..... |
2 kw radarbeam
In article ,
engsol wrote: On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:47:59 GMT, Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , engsol wrote: Thanks much Bruce...very helpful info. And I forgot about those diode mixers in the rx front end. 1N34? Was that the one? Norm Yep, 1N34, 1N34A, 1N914, 1N415A, B ,C and E just to name a few. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
2 kw radarbeam
|
2 kw radarbeam
And the R or reverse polarity ones. I must admit I replaced a few of those
with the normal ones and lost a few more hairs from my now bald head trying to figure what the new problem could be. Doug K7ABX "Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , engsol wrote: On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:47:59 GMT, Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , engsol wrote: Thanks much Bruce...very helpful info. And I forgot about those diode mixers in the rx front end. 1N34? Was that the one? Norm Yep, 1N34, 1N34A, 1N914, 1N415A, B ,C and E just to name a few. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
2 kw radarbeam
Hee hee....funny you should mention that, Bruce......
We did a REFTRA in Gitmo back in 66 aboard USS Everglades (AD-24). She was an old WW2/Korean War destroyer tender with a single screw turned by two steam turbines and 4 boilers. The inspectors came into my little cal lab and broke a tube marked "radioactive" on the deck and said, "Broken Radioactive Tube!", to which we were supposed to respond with this silly kit to put tape on the remnants and seal it all up in a can for disposal, probably with major reactor parts. Ol' Larry whips out his radiation counter from a nearby bin, passes it over the tube guts and declares it non-radioactive....sweeps it up and dumps it in the sh!tcan.....(c; "OK, smart boy, I'll be back!", declares the 1st class PO doing the test...... That poor guy broke half the tubes on the ship, all the way up to the major hydrogen thyratrons out of radars we didn't even have trying to find a tube that would make my geiger counter show SOME reaction.....NO-GO. He finally says, "Well, if we COULD have found a radioactive tube, what would you have done?" "Oh, now you ask. I'd have got out this kit (producing kit from its place) and done this.", I declared. I didn't have the heart to tell him NONE of the tube PARTS is radioactive....just the gas that WAS in it before he broke it. The gas was gone so it was a non-issue.....(c; Try it for yourself. Get a hydrogen thyratron that's been firing a 10MW beast for a few years and measure it for yourself. I don't know where NAV gets these crazy, paranoid ideas.....(sigh) The big klystrons and maggies stop radiating Xrays as soon as you turn 'em off, too. Asst Chief Engineer at WTAT-24, our Fox affiliate running 5MW ERP from a 160KW UHF transmitter has 2 klystrons over 7' tall to the top of the boiler that cools 'em. They run 'em until the filament fails at $32K/copy..... On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:58:27 GMT, Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , (Larry W4CSC) wrote: protected by a gas tube That had a tiny bit of Strontium 90 in it to set a bias for the Ionization of the T/R tube. Couldn't just toss those Bad Boys in the trash, as they were a Radiation Hazard if the were broke open. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ Larry W4CSC POWER is our friend! |
2 kw radarbeam
Be aware that both regulation agencies in Canada and the US have
de-regulated certain amounts of radioactive material. Our TR-limiters at work were de-regulated. We didn't have to worry about signage or breakage (leave the room for the day if you're worried). As far as I know they could be toss in the dump. I don't htink you could incinerate them though (don't know about that!). sb "Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , (Larry W4CSC) wrote: protected by a gas tube That had a tiny bit of Strontium 90 in it to set a bias for the Ionization of the T/R tube. Couldn't just toss those Bad Boys in the trash, as they were a Radiation Hazard if the were broke open. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
2 kw radarbeam
Oh ya....you have strontium 90 in those old watches who's hands glowed in
teh dark too! "Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , (Larry W4CSC) wrote: protected by a gas tube That had a tiny bit of Strontium 90 in it to set a bias for the Ionization of the T/R tube. Couldn't just toss those Bad Boys in the trash, as they were a Radiation Hazard if the were broke open. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
2 kw radarbeam
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
... Hee hee....funny you should mention that, Bruce...... Ol' Larry whips out his radiation counter from a nearby bin, passes it over the tube guts and declares it non-radioactive....sweeps it up and dumps it in the sh!tcan.....(c; / I didn't have the heart to tell him NONE of the tube PARTS is radioactive....just the gas that WAS in it before he broke it. The gas was gone so it was a non-issue.....(c; / I don't know where NAV gets these crazy, paranoid ideas.....(sigh) Larry, very funny story! ...but not at all accurate w/r to detection of radioactive material, the type and emissions of which your "geiger counter" was never designed to detect. While we could have played similar games with inspectors, the weapons and propulsion engineers that inspected my old missile submarine would probably have missed the humour. ;-) Jack in Virginia Beach |
2 kw radarbeam
In article .net,
"Doug" wrote: And the R or reverse polarity ones. I must admit I replaced a few of those with the normal ones and lost a few more hairs from my now bald head trying to figure what the new problem could be. Doug K7ABX "Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , engsol wrote: On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:47:59 GMT, Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , engsol wrote: Thanks much Bruce...very helpful info. And I forgot about those diode mixers in the rx front end. 1N34? Was that the one? Norm Yep, 1N34, 1N34A, 1N914, 1N415A, B ,C and E just to name a few. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ Most of the 1N415x series had reversable bases, so one can have both polarities with one product..... Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
2 kw radarbeam
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:24:25 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Hee hee....funny you should mention that, Bruce...... Ol' Larry whips out his radiation counter from a nearby bin, passes it over the tube guts and declares it non-radioactive....sweeps it up and dumps it in the sh!tcan.....(c; / I didn't have the heart to tell him NONE of the tube PARTS is radioactive....just the gas that WAS in it before he broke it. The gas was gone so it was a non-issue.....(c; / I don't know where NAV gets these crazy, paranoid ideas.....(sigh) Larry, very funny story! ...but not at all accurate w/r to detection of radioactive material, the type and emissions of which your "geiger counter" was never designed to detect. Which type of emissions is that? The Synctillation counter I had was the same one used on nuke subs at the time. Are there quarks or exotic isotopes of Cornucopium radiating from plain old thyratrons?? While we could have played similar games with inspectors, the weapons and propulsion engineers that inspected my old missile submarine would probably have missed the humour. ;-) Our ship was powered by sweat and bunker C oil you had to boil before you could spray it into the 1945 boilers. We had some clocks with radium dials, though...(c; Larry W4CSC POWER is our friend! |
2 kw radarbeam
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:12:13 GMT, "SB" wrote:
Oh ya....you have strontium 90 in those old watches who's hands glowed in teh dark too! Back in the 1960's, Moravia Central School (Moravia, NY) had an NRC-licensed tiny Cobalt 60 source kept in the school safe in a lead-lined box our physics teacher, Mr Dewey, used to use as a source to irradiate all the Junior classes. Mr Dewey was an old WW2 B-17 pilot who could tell us fascinated kids some real war stories of bombers and Germany. He had the schrapnel scars and Purple Hearts to prove it. The other fascinating thing he had was his flyer's radium-dial wris****ch, which was so "hot" he had to put it in the lead-lined box so you could detect the radiation from the NRC-licensed Cobalt 60 source. Mr Dewey died of old age, not from the burn spot on his wrist from the Gamma rays coming through the back of that watch. His arm looked slightly sunburned around the watch, but was still darker color right through the back of it..... I'll never forget all the great things he taught me in physics and chemistry....over 40 years later. Larry W4CSC POWER is our friend! |
2 kw radarbeam
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
... Hee hee....funny you should mention that, Bruce...... Ol' Larry whips out his radiation counter from a nearby bin, passes it over the tube guts and declares it non-radioactive....sweeps it up and dumps it in the sh!tcan.....(c; / I didn't have the heart to tell him NONE of the tube PARTS is radioactive....just the gas that WAS in it before he broke it. The gas was gone so it was a non-issue.....(c; / I don't know where NAV gets these crazy, paranoid ideas.....(sigh) Larry, very funny story! ...but not at all accurate w/r to detection of radioactive material, the type and emissions of which your "geiger counter" was never designed to detect. Which type of emissions is that? The Synctillation counter I had was the same one used on nuke subs at the time. Are there quarks or exotic isotopes of Cornucopium radiating from plain old thyratrons?? While we could have played similar games with inspectors, the weapons and propulsion engineers that inspected my old missile submarine would probably have missed the humour. ;-) Our ship was powered by sweat and bunker C oil you had to boil before you could spray it into the 1945 boilers. We had some clocks with radium dials, though...(c; Larry W4CSC POWER is our friend! They were slightly radioactive, even broken, but not so much that any "geiger counter" could detect anything. We used instrument hundreds of times more sensitive on submarines, and measured air, urine and swipe samples for alpha, beta and gamma detection, accordingly. Some of those processes involved superheating the pressurized samples in equipment that detected levels to small to be discussed. And of course we wore two different types of personal-detectors, according to the area of work performed on the boat. As to disposal of broken tubes, even today, your method seems acceptable to everyone except the frantic and frustrated emergency drill inspector, who I'm sure never forgot you. FAA radar tube disposure methods: I had a good laugh when I saw your idea here ;-) (1) Handling. There is no external radiation hazard due to normal handling of radioactive electron tubes. (2) Storage. Exercise judgment and caution to avoid large quantity storage and possible breakage. Under no condition shall random storage in boxes or bins be permitted. All storage areas for large quantities of radioactive tubes, such as the FAA Depot, shall be clearly marked with radiation warning signs as described in paragraph 24.d. (3) Decontamination. In the event of breakage, decontamination shall proceed as follows: (a) Dust. Avoid agitation of dust in order to minimize dispersion of the radioactive material. Internal exposure by ingestion and/or inhalation should be avoided. Should either or both occur, contact the cognizant Aviation Medicine Office. (b) Tube Fragments. Retrieve tube fragments with forceps or pliers and dispose of them as normal waste. Clean instruments with a dampened cloth. If forceps or pliers are not available, use gloves and dispose of them immediately after use. Do not handle tube fragments with bare hands. Jack former mushroom-cloud farmer |
2 kw radarbeam
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:12:13 GMT, "SB" wrote: Oh ya....you have strontium 90 in those old watches who's hands glowed in teh dark too! Back in the 1960's, Moravia Central School (Moravia, NY) had an NRC-licensed tiny Cobalt 60 source kept in the school safe in a lead-lined box our physics teacher, Mr Dewey, used to use as a source to irradiate all the Junior classes. Mr Dewey was an old WW2 B-17 pilot who could tell us fascinated kids some real war stories of bombers and Germany. He had the schrapnel scars and Purple Hearts to prove it. The other fascinating thing he had was his flyer's radium-dial wris****ch, which was so "hot" he had to put it in the lead-lined box so you could detect the radiation from the NRC-licensed Cobalt 60 source. Mr Dewey died of old age, not from the burn spot on his wrist from the Gamma rays coming through the back of that watch. His arm looked slightly sunburned around the watch, but was still darker color right through the back of it..... I'll never forget all the great things he taught me in physics and chemistry....over 40 years later. Larry W4CSC POWER is our friend! A quick overview of Radium dial-painting can be found at: http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr6/radiumdials.htm And here's a set of pictures of luminescent products. Wow, glow-in-the-dark buttons! http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/r...uminescent.htm Clearly, it was more hazardous to make these items than to use them. Ed |
2 kw radarbeam
Wow, I'm always amazed to hear stories from 'back in the day'.
The tools they gave us back in the day that we find today to have been...well...not all that healthy. Like the troops using depleted uranium shells....or the cops that didn't think much when they set their radar guns in their laps! sb "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:12:13 GMT, "SB" wrote: Oh ya....you have strontium 90 in those old watches who's hands glowed in teh dark too! Back in the 1960's, Moravia Central School (Moravia, NY) had an NRC-licensed tiny Cobalt 60 source kept in the school safe in a lead-lined box our physics teacher, Mr Dewey, used to use as a source to irradiate all the Junior classes. Mr Dewey was an old WW2 B-17 pilot who could tell us fascinated kids some real war stories of bombers and Germany. He had the schrapnel scars and Purple Hearts to prove it. The other fascinating thing he had was his flyer's radium-dial wris****ch, which was so "hot" he had to put it in the lead-lined box so you could detect the radiation from the NRC-licensed Cobalt 60 source. Mr Dewey died of old age, not from the burn spot on his wrist from the Gamma rays coming through the back of that watch. His arm looked slightly sunburned around the watch, but was still darker color right through the back of it..... I'll never forget all the great things he taught me in physics and chemistry....over 40 years later. Larry W4CSC POWER is our friend! |
2 kw radarbeam
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:59:54 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: I suppose my point to them was that the radioactivity in a "radioactive tube" wasn't any where near the radioactivity of the little counter check source on the side of its box. As noone was going to eat the "radioactive" parts of the tube, it was really no stretch of the imagination to believe it was a hazard to humans, as it was many times lower than the background radiation from the Big Bang we COULD easily measure.... Larry W4CSC POWER is our friend! |
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