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Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Has anyone seen any used AIS class A transponders for sale? I do enough
off-shore sailing to want a class A instead of a class B. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
John Navas wrote in
: On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:34:49 -0500, Geoff Schultz wrote in : Has anyone seen any used AIS class A transponders for sale? I do enough off-shore sailing to want a class A instead of a class B. Class A is probably going to cost you at least $3,000 http://store.milltechmarine.com/acrglaistr.html, versus less than half of that for Class B: http://www.wmjmarine.com/ait250.html http://www.consumersmarine.com/modpe...gi?r=view&i=98 0030 Why do you think it's worth the additional cost? Up until today I was one of those under the false impression that AIS displays would be able to filter out class B information. According to something that I just read on Panbo.com, this impression is common, but false. The last thing that I wanted to do was to be doing an off-shore passage and have my information filtered by an approaching ship. Here's a link to the article: http://www.panbo.com/archives/2009/04/ais_solas- style_class_b_is_not_ignorable.html#more I am also a bit concerned about ships not upgrading their software to include class B messages. I know that until I recently upgraded my RayMarine software, that it didn't understand class B messages. However, after reading the article on Panbo, I feel much better about class B and will probably get a class B. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Geoff Schultz wrote:
John Navas wrote in : On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:34:49 -0500, Geoff Schultz wrote in : Has anyone seen any used AIS class A transponders for sale? I do enough off-shore sailing to want a class A instead of a class B. Class A is probably going to cost you at least $3,000 http://store.milltechmarine.com/acrglaistr.html, versus less than half of that for Class B: http://www.wmjmarine.com/ait250.html http://www.consumersmarine.com/modpe...gi?r=view&i=98 0030 Why do you think it's worth the additional cost? Up until today I was one of those under the false impression that AIS displays would be able to filter out class B information. According to something that I just read on Panbo.com, this impression is common, but false. The last thing that I wanted to do was to be doing an off-shore passage and have my information filtered by an approaching ship. Here's a link to the article: http://www.panbo.com/archives/2009/04/ais_solas- style_class_b_is_not_ignorable.html#more I am also a bit concerned about ships not upgrading their software to include class B messages. I know that until I recently upgraded my RayMarine software, that it didn't understand class B messages. However, after reading the article on Panbo, I feel much better about class B and will probably get a class B. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org I have a class B unit (ACR) and the big guys see me. Of course I see them from farther away, but that is an antenna height issue and would be true of class A also. Michael Porter Michael Porter Marine Design mporter at mp-marine dot com www.mp-marine.com |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
On Jun 11, 3:34*am, Geoff Schultz wrote:
Has anyone seen any used AIS class A transponders for sale? *I do enough off-shore sailing to want a class A instead of a class B. -- Geoffwww.GeoffSchultz.org I bought a brand new ACR/Nauticast class A AIS transponder on ebay for $1100. It was sold by a seller in Singapore who lists high end commercial marine gear from time to time. He had a high reserve ($1800?) in the first auction and nobody bid high enough. I made him the $1100 offer and he eventually took it. Shipping was expensive, about $75. http://www.acrelectronics.com/global...balwatch2.html At $1100 it was not cheap but still way lower than list price. It lacked cables and GPS antenna, but I found a 5 VDC amplified GPS antenna on eBay for $10 that was plug and play (SMA connector). I saw a nearly new Furuno class A AIS go for about $900 on ebay a while back. My ACR AIS Xponder runs on 24 VDC and my boat is 12 VDC, but I can find a bunch of easy ways to convert 12 to 24, including a cheap inverter and AC supply. I am sure there is a linear regulator insdie that probably knocks down 24 to 12 VDC, but I dont want to modify anything in case I need factory service. My boat is a commercial fishing boat but small enough that AIS is not mandatory. I sometimes fish in foggy crowded waters off San Francisco and wanted the best AIS I could afford. The more frequent transmissions of class A and the large number of message options appealed to me. I also wanted a self contained unit that didnt need a laptop or anything else. Mark |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
John Navas wrote in
: On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:04:48 -0500, Geoff Schultz wrote in : I'm also considering an active radar reflector. Choose with care, because some do more harm than good. I've been looking at the See-Me active radar reflector. Any comments on it would be appreciated. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Geoff Schultz wrote:
377 wrote in news:e862609d-7bee-4afa-be3c- : On Jun 11, 3:34 am, Geoff Schultz wrote: Has anyone seen any used AIS class A transponders for sale? I do enoug h off-shore sailing to want a class A instead of a class B. -- Geoffwww.GeoffSchultz.org I bought a brand new ACR/Nauticast class A AIS transponder on ebay for $1100. It was sold by a seller in Singapore who lists high end commercial marine gear from time to time. He had a high reserve ($1800?) in the first auction and nobody bid high enough. I made him the $1100 offer and he eventually took it. Shipping was expensive, about $75. http://www.acrelectronics.com/global...balwatch2.html At $1100 it was not cheap but still way lower than list price. It lacked cables and GPS antenna, but I found a 5 VDC amplified GPS antenna on eBay for $10 that was plug and play (SMA connector). I saw a nearly new Furuno class A AIS go for about $900 on ebay a while back. My ACR AIS Xponder runs on 24 VDC and my boat is 12 VDC, but I can find a bunch of easy ways to convert 12 to 24, including a cheap inverter and AC supply. I am sure there is a linear regulator insdie that probably knocks down 24 to 12 VDC, but I dont want to modify anything in case I need factory service. My boat is a commercial fishing boat but small enough that AIS is not mandatory. I sometimes fish in foggy crowded waters off San Francisco and wanted the best AIS I could afford. The more frequent transmissions of class A and the large number of message options appealed to me. I also wanted a self contained unit that didnt need a laptop or anything else. Mark I've been watching for used AIS transponders on Ebay for a while and haven't seen any. That's why I asked here. I agree with your reasoning for wanting one. I just ordered a Comar CSB-200 class B transponder based upon my research. I'm also considering an active radar reflector. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org Panbo discussion http://www.panbo.com/archives/2007/0...ally_work.html G |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Geoff Schultz wrote:
377 wrote in news:e862609d-7bee-4afa-be3c- : On Jun 11, 3:34 am, Geoff Schultz wrote: Has anyone seen any used AIS class A transponders for sale? I do enoug h off-shore sailing to want a class A instead of a class B. -- Geoffwww.GeoffSchultz.org I bought a brand new ACR/Nauticast class A AIS transponder on ebay for $1100. It was sold by a seller in Singapore who lists high end commercial marine gear from time to time. He had a high reserve ($1800?) in the first auction and nobody bid high enough. I made him the $1100 offer and he eventually took it. Shipping was expensive, about $75. http://www.acrelectronics.com/global...balwatch2.html At $1100 it was not cheap but still way lower than list price. It lacked cables and GPS antenna, but I found a 5 VDC amplified GPS antenna on eBay for $10 that was plug and play (SMA connector). I saw a nearly new Furuno class A AIS go for about $900 on ebay a while back. My ACR AIS Xponder runs on 24 VDC and my boat is 12 VDC, but I can find a bunch of easy ways to convert 12 to 24, including a cheap inverter and AC supply. I am sure there is a linear regulator insdie that probably knocks down 24 to 12 VDC, but I dont want to modify anything in case I need factory service. My boat is a commercial fishing boat but small enough that AIS is not mandatory. I sometimes fish in foggy crowded waters off San Francisco and wanted the best AIS I could afford. The more frequent transmissions of class A and the large number of message options appealed to me. I also wanted a self contained unit that didnt need a laptop or anything else. Mark I've been watching for used AIS transponders on Ebay for a while and haven't seen any. That's why I asked here. I agree with your reasoning for wanting one. I just ordered a Comar CSB-200 class B transponder based upon my research. I'm also considering an active radar reflector. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org Seeing as how the ais xponder has to be programmed with your ships info when you buy it, it wouldn't seem you will find any used ones about or if you did, how would you get it reprogrammed?. G |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Geof,
I bought a 1 year old Class A Simrad unit used as a demo unit for marine shows on eBay for $1300. Please note, there are substantial differences between Class A and Class B. One of which is the Class A has its own internal GPS among many others. Steve "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . Has anyone seen any used AIS class A transponders for sale? I do enough off-shore sailing to want a class A instead of a class B. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
"Steve Lusardi" wrote in news:h25jht$484$01$1
@news.t-online.com: Geof, I bought a 1 year old Class A Simrad unit used as a demo unit for marine shows on eBay for $1300. Please note, there are substantial differences between Class A and Class B. One of which is the Class A has its own internal GPS among many others. Steve "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . Has anyone seen any used AIS class A transponders for sale? I do enough off-shore sailing to want a class A instead of a class B. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org Don't you have to have a Class A ship to use that? I didn't think pleasure boats were supposed to be on Class A's turf.....or have the GMDSS Operator's License from the FCC to operate it. Bruce in Alaska? Which license does he need ship and operator for Class A?? -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
"Steve Lusardi" wrote:
Geof, I bought a 1 year old Class A Simrad unit used as a demo unit for marine shows on eBay for $1300. Please note, there are substantial differences between Class A and Class B. One of which is the Class A has its own internal GPS among many others. Steve "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message . .. Has anyone seen any used AIS class A transponders for sale? I do enough off-shore sailing to want a class A instead of a class B. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org I have found that my class B (ACR) works fine offshore. The big guys see me and I see them. Class B transponders also have GPS built in. Michael Porter Michael Porter Marine Design mporter at mp-marine dot com www.mp-marine.com |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Larry wrote:
Don't you have to have a Class A ship to use that? I didn't think pleasure boats were supposed to be on Class A's turf.....or have the GMDSS Operator's License from the FCC to operate it. Bruce in Alaska? Which license does he need ship and operator for Class A?? In the Carib. I saw several pleasure boats (admittedly mostly bigger than us) with class A units. Don't know about the licensing, but it's just another VHF radio. Michael Porter Michael Porter Marine Design mporter at mp-marine dot com www.mp-marine.com |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Michael Porter wrote in
: Don't know about the licensing, but it's just another VHF radio. Well, yes and no, it's not...... For US boats, the FCC says: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm? job=licensing&id=ship_stations "Who Needs a Ship Station License You do not need a license to operate a marine VHF radio, radar, or EPIRBs aboard voluntary ships operating domestically. The term "voluntary ships" refers to ships that are not required by law to carry a radio. Generally, this term applies to recreation or pleasure craft. The term "voluntary ships" does not apply to the following: 1. Cargo ships over 300 gross tons navigating in the open sea; 2. Ships certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry more than 6 passengers for hire in the open sea or tidewaters of the U.S.; 3. Power driven ships over 20 meters in length on navigable waterways; 4. Ships of more than 100 gross tons certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry at least one passenger on navigable waterways; 5. Tow boats of more than 7.8 meters in length on navigable waterways; and, 6. Uninspected commercial fishing industry vessels required to carry a VHF radio. 7. Ships required to carry an Automatic Identification System (AIS) transceiver by the U.S. Coast Guard regulations enacted pursuant to the Maritime Transportation Security Act of 2000." Either class of AIS transponder is NOT a "marine VHF radio", though it operates on two their old marine operator channels. Of course, in true bureaucratic form, FCC has a muddled legalese of conflicting rules and regs only a Philadelphia lawyer can read: "The GMDSS regulations are contained in 47 C.F.R. Part 80. Most of the GMDSS regulations are in Subpart W of Part 80, but Subpart W also cross- references certain other FCC rules, as follows (the cross-referencing Subpart W is listed parenthetically after the cross-referenced rule): 13.2 (80.1073(a)), 13.21 (80.1073(a)), 80.334 (80.1114), 80.335 (80.1114), 80.836 (80.1065(b)(5)(iii)), 80.933 (80.1065(b)(5)(iii))." Does 80.1065(b)(5)(iii) supercede 80.933 or is it separate in parens?? Who the hell set sails and read this?.....almost noone. Look closely at your copy of: Report and Order, PR Docket No. 90-480, FCC 92-19, 7 FCC Rcd 951 (1992) to see some changes to GMDSS rules. ================================================== ================ On a separate issue, I don't understand this: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...b=operations_2 &id=ship_stations "What are the requirements regarding communications personnel aboard GMDSS ships? The FCC requires two licensed radio operators to be aboard all GMDSS certified ships, one of whom must be available to act as a dedicated radio operator during a distress situation. The radio operators must be holders of a GMDSS Radio Operator's License. The GMDSS radio operator is an individual licensed to handle radio communications aboard ships in compliance with the GMDSS regulations, including basic equipment and antenna adjustments. The GMDSS radio operator need not be a radio officer. Another IMO Convention requires all masters and mates to hold the GMDSS Radio Operator's License and attend a two week training course and demonstrate competency with operation of the GMDSS equipment. These requirements would also carry to any person employed specifically to act as a dedicated radio operator if the ship elected to carry such a position." DSC, the selective calling and distress messaging part of your unlicensed VHF radio they told you didn't require a license, is PART OF GMDSS! So, requires TWO licensed radio operators holding GMDSS Radio Operator's Licenses, one of which must be free to operate the GMDSS equipment during emergencies. All masters and mates must hold GMDSS Radio Operator's Licenses and attend a two week training course and demonstrate competency with operation of the GMDSS Equipment. The question has never been adequately answered......What about using the DSC part of GMDSS on a sailboat that has no license at all??..... It's a bureaucratic nightmare........ Then there's Maritel's money grab: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-03-3669A1.doc "Domestic vessels would be charged an initial registration fee of $300 (for mandatory carriage vessels) or $375 (for non-mandatory carriage vessels), with an annual renewal fee of $75. Foreign vessels subject to the SOLAS Convention would be charged a $75 annual fee. Shore stations would be charged an initial fee of $4,500 per site for processing and RF engineering study, and a $750 annual renewal fee thereafter." How much money you got for AIS transponders? That was in 2003! It's STILL on the FCC's website! You'll need to keep checking: http://www.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRu...ind/080373.htm as they can't seem to make up their minds even which of Maritel's precious coast station channels they're going to use for AIS. Early AIS equipment, like you may have purchased use, might not operate on the newer channels Maritel and the FCC have been haggling over to maximize profits....?? As you can see, the FCC websites are a hodge-podge of GMDSS intersperced with snippets about AIS. The Coast Guard is more sure of itself, even though it hasn't a clue, most of the time. At least there's some less conflicting information: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/enav/ais/default.htm I think you need to first see if that box you bought is "AIS Certified" by both FCC and USCG: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/enav/ais/...tification.htm There's a ton of pointers, of course, to a hodge podge of rules and regulations. So, we go he http://cgmix.uscg.mil/Equipment/EquipmentSearch.aspx Click the box that leads to certifications up to include toilet paper and pick: Automatic Identification System (AIS)- 165.155 from the pick list. THERE YA GO! THERE'S ONLY 22 DIFFERENT UNITS CERTIFIED BY USCG! Is one of these YOURS? If not....dump it...you can't use it. -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Larry wrote in
: Geof, I bought a 1 year old Class A Simrad unit used as a demo unit for marine shows on eBay for $1300. Please note, there are substantial differences between Class A and Class B. One of which is the Class A has its own internal GPS among many others. Steve Steve in Deutchland! There are DIFFERENT AIS units allowed to be used in DIFFERENT countries. I finally found the list of approved units in the USA on: http://cgmix.uscg.mil/Equipment/EquipmentSearch.aspx There are only 22 units Class A approved to date. I'm sure Germany has a different, but similar list for German ship stations to use. AIS is a real mess.....a bureaucratic nightmare. -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Michael Porter wrote in
: "Steve Lusardi" wrote: Geof, I bought a 1 year old Class A Simrad unit used as a demo unit for marine shows on eBay for $1300. Please note, there are substantial differences between Class A and Class B. One of which is the Class A has its own internal GPS among many others. Steve "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message ... Has anyone seen any used AIS class A transponders for sale? I do enough off-shore sailing to want a class A instead of a class B. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org I have found that my class B (ACR) works fine offshore. The big guys see me and I see them. Class B transponders also have GPS built in. Michael Porter Michael Porter Marine Design mporter at mp-marine dot com www.mp-marine.com You guys might want to read Panbo's information on AIS operation.... http://www.panbo.com/admin/mt-search...s=1&search=ais -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Michael Porter wrote in
: Class B transponders also have GPS built in. http://www.panbo.com/archives/2009/0..._better_but_my sterious.html -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Larry,
This database is at 4 least years outdated. The Simrad model that has the approval has been out of production for at least 4 years. My AIS , bought in the US, is at least 2 generations newer. Manufactured in 2007. Steve "Larry" wrote in message ... Michael Porter wrote in : Don't know about the licensing, but it's just another VHF radio. Well, yes and no, it's not...... For US boats, the FCC says: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm? job=licensing&id=ship_stations "Who Needs a Ship Station License You do not need a license to operate a marine VHF radio, radar, or EPIRBs aboard voluntary ships operating domestically. The term "voluntary ships" refers to ships that are not required by law to carry a radio. Generally, this term applies to recreation or pleasure craft. The term "voluntary ships" does not apply to the following: 1. Cargo ships over 300 gross tons navigating in the open sea; 2. Ships certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry more than 6 passengers for hire in the open sea or tidewaters of the U.S.; 3. Power driven ships over 20 meters in length on navigable waterways; 4. Ships of more than 100 gross tons certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry at least one passenger on navigable waterways; 5. Tow boats of more than 7.8 meters in length on navigable waterways; and, 6. Uninspected commercial fishing industry vessels required to carry a VHF radio. 7. Ships required to carry an Automatic Identification System (AIS) transceiver by the U.S. Coast Guard regulations enacted pursuant to the Maritime Transportation Security Act of 2000." Either class of AIS transponder is NOT a "marine VHF radio", though it operates on two their old marine operator channels. Of course, in true bureaucratic form, FCC has a muddled legalese of conflicting rules and regs only a Philadelphia lawyer can read: "The GMDSS regulations are contained in 47 C.F.R. Part 80. Most of the GMDSS regulations are in Subpart W of Part 80, but Subpart W also cross- references certain other FCC rules, as follows (the cross-referencing Subpart W is listed parenthetically after the cross-referenced rule): 13.2 (80.1073(a)), 13.21 (80.1073(a)), 80.334 (80.1114), 80.335 (80.1114), 80.836 (80.1065(b)(5)(iii)), 80.933 (80.1065(b)(5)(iii))." Does 80.1065(b)(5)(iii) supercede 80.933 or is it separate in parens?? Who the hell set sails and read this?.....almost noone. Look closely at your copy of: Report and Order, PR Docket No. 90-480, FCC 92-19, 7 FCC Rcd 951 (1992) to see some changes to GMDSS rules. ================================================== ================ On a separate issue, I don't understand this: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...b=operations_2 &id=ship_stations "What are the requirements regarding communications personnel aboard GMDSS ships? The FCC requires two licensed radio operators to be aboard all GMDSS certified ships, one of whom must be available to act as a dedicated radio operator during a distress situation. The radio operators must be holders of a GMDSS Radio Operator's License. The GMDSS radio operator is an individual licensed to handle radio communications aboard ships in compliance with the GMDSS regulations, including basic equipment and antenna adjustments. The GMDSS radio operator need not be a radio officer. Another IMO Convention requires all masters and mates to hold the GMDSS Radio Operator's License and attend a two week training course and demonstrate competency with operation of the GMDSS equipment. These requirements would also carry to any person employed specifically to act as a dedicated radio operator if the ship elected to carry such a position." DSC, the selective calling and distress messaging part of your unlicensed VHF radio they told you didn't require a license, is PART OF GMDSS! So, requires TWO licensed radio operators holding GMDSS Radio Operator's Licenses, one of which must be free to operate the GMDSS equipment during emergencies. All masters and mates must hold GMDSS Radio Operator's Licenses and attend a two week training course and demonstrate competency with operation of the GMDSS Equipment. The question has never been adequately answered......What about using the DSC part of GMDSS on a sailboat that has no license at all??..... It's a bureaucratic nightmare........ Then there's Maritel's money grab: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-03-3669A1.doc "Domestic vessels would be charged an initial registration fee of $300 (for mandatory carriage vessels) or $375 (for non-mandatory carriage vessels), with an annual renewal fee of $75. Foreign vessels subject to the SOLAS Convention would be charged a $75 annual fee. Shore stations would be charged an initial fee of $4,500 per site for processing and RF engineering study, and a $750 annual renewal fee thereafter." How much money you got for AIS transponders? That was in 2003! It's STILL on the FCC's website! You'll need to keep checking: http://www.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRu...ind/080373.htm as they can't seem to make up their minds even which of Maritel's precious coast station channels they're going to use for AIS. Early AIS equipment, like you may have purchased use, might not operate on the newer channels Maritel and the FCC have been haggling over to maximize profits....?? As you can see, the FCC websites are a hodge-podge of GMDSS intersperced with snippets about AIS. The Coast Guard is more sure of itself, even though it hasn't a clue, most of the time. At least there's some less conflicting information: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/enav/ais/default.htm I think you need to first see if that box you bought is "AIS Certified" by both FCC and USCG: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/enav/ais/...tification.htm There's a ton of pointers, of course, to a hodge podge of rules and regulations. So, we go he http://cgmix.uscg.mil/Equipment/EquipmentSearch.aspx Click the box that leads to certifications up to include toilet paper and pick: Automatic Identification System (AIS)- 165.155 from the pick list. THERE YA GO! THERE'S ONLY 22 DIFFERENT UNITS CERTIFIED BY USCG! Is one of these YOURS? If not....dump it...you can't use it. -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
"Steve Lusardi" wrote in
: Larry, This database is at 4 least years outdated. The Simrad model that has the approval has been out of production for at least 4 years. My AIS , bought in the US, is at least 2 generations newer. Manufactured in 2007. Steve Therein lies the big legal problem. The government bureaucrats are so far behind the technology THEY are still posting 4-year-old data as VALID. Panbo's website is much better up to date for millions less dollars. I don't understand why CG and FCC can't get their act together on marine comms/AIS/GMDSS. It all seems as if they are just baffled by anything but the basic narrow-band FM transceivers. The local staff just looks dumbfounded if you ask any of them, here. -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
In article ,
Larry wrote: "Steve Lusardi" wrote in : Larry, This database is at 4 least years outdated. The Simrad model that has the approval has been out of production for at least 4 years. My AIS , bought in the US, is at least 2 generations newer. Manufactured in 2007. Steve Therein lies the big legal problem. The government bureaucrats are so far behind the technology THEY are still posting 4-year-old data as VALID. Panbo's website is much better up to date for millions less dollars. I don't understand why CG and FCC can't get their act together on marine comms/AIS/GMDSS. It all seems as if they are just baffled by anything but the basic narrow-band FM transceivers. The local staff just looks dumbfounded if you ask any of them, here. Ok, Larry, I have an Inquiry in with the Maritime Rules Chief at the FCC, but he is on vacation, till the middle of August, so I have another Inquiry with his Stand-in, who should get back to me, in the next day or two.... and I will get the definitive answer, for Licensing, for both Vessel and Operator, for both classes of AIS Transponders..... -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
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Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Michael Porter wrote in
: Don't know about the licensing, but it's just another VHF radio. DSC on GMDSS is "just another VHF radio", too. But, according to the rules not hearsay on the docks, the licensed ship must have TWO trained, LICENSED GMDSS operators, one of which must not be encumbered to another job in an emergency, to operate it. I suspect AIS to come under the same sort of digital rules, once they get it sorted out. Your license- free radio is only for use on certain channels and ONLY for voice transmissions, not GMDSS/DSC and I suspect especially Class "A" AIS which is a radio aid to navigation. I still don't understand how an unlicensed pleasure boat with no GMDSS operator or skill is allowed to use DSC, except in an emergency situation, to call his buddies over DSC. DSC is part of GMDSS. And the rules say: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...b=operations_2 &id=ship_stations "What are the requirements regarding communications personnel aboard GMDSS ships? The FCC requires two licensed radio operators to be aboard all GMDSS certified ships, one of whom must be available to act as a dedicated radio operator during a distress situation. The radio operators must be holders of a GMDSS Radio Operator's License. The GMDSS radio operator is an individual licensed to handle radio communications aboard ships in compliance with the GMDSS regulations, including basic equipment and antenna adjustments. The GMDSS radio operator need not be a radio officer. Another IMO Convention requires all masters and mates to hold the GMDSS Radio Operator's License and attend a two week training course and demonstrate competency with operation of the GMDSS equipment. These requirements would also carry to any person employed specifically to act as a dedicated radio operator if the ship elected to carry such a position. " Of course, true to form, it has to be a hodge podge of nonsense only an advanced law firm specializing in FCC law can understand: "Where are the GMDSS regulations contained? The GMDSS regulations are contained in 47 C.F.R. Part 80. Most of the GMDSS regulations are in Subpart W of Part 80, but Subpart W also cross- references certain other FCC rules, as follows (the cross-referencing Subpart W is listed parenthetically after the cross-referenced rule): 13.2 (80.1073(a)), 13.21 (80.1073(a)), 80.334 (80.1114), 80.335 (80.1114), 80.836 (80.1065(b)(5)(iii)), 80.933 (80.1065(b)(5)(iii))." But, for those of you with licenses that go offshore, notice it's a SHIP LICENSE, not a pleasure boat radio license, and the rules of part 80 are for SHIP LICENSEES to follow. I agree it's crazy 47CFR part 80.1065(b)(5)(iii)))))))))))))) not withstanding. Who the hell writes this ****? -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Larry wrote in news:Xns9C3BEB86FCCBDnoonehomecom@
74.209.131.13: But, for those of you with licenses that go offshore, notice it's a SHIP LICENSE, not a pleasure boat radio license, and the rules of part 80 are for SHIP LICENSEES to follow. I agree it's crazy 47CFR part 80.1065(b)(5)(iii)))))))))))))) not withstanding. Who the hell writes this ****? http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_08.html It's all here in your Bible....and equally difficult to read as the Christian one, also written by a bunch of idiot bureaucrats. -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
In article ,
Bruce in alaska wrote: In article , Larry wrote: "Steve Lusardi" wrote in : Larry, This database is at 4 least years outdated. The Simrad model that has the approval has been out of production for at least 4 years. My AIS , bought in the US, is at least 2 generations newer. Manufactured in 2007. Steve Therein lies the big legal problem. The government bureaucrats are so far behind the technology THEY are still posting 4-year-old data as VALID. Panbo's website is much better up to date for millions less dollars. I don't understand why CG and FCC can't get their act together on marine comms/AIS/GMDSS. It all seems as if they are just baffled by anything but the basic narrow-band FM transceivers. The local staff just looks dumbfounded if you ask any of them, here. Ok, Larry, I have an Inquiry in with the Maritime Rules Chief at the FCC, but he is on vacation, till the middle of August, so I have another Inquiry with his Stand-in, who should get back to me, in the next day or two.... and I will get the definitive answer, for Licensing, for both Vessel and Operator, for both classes of AIS Transponders..... Followup.... well the guy called "Me" back, Twice now, but I was out of the cabin both times, so we are exchanging Phone Messages.... I did learn that "AIS is licensed to the vessel, on it's "Radio License", as "Transponder", and therefor can NOT be fitted on a vessel that does NOT have a valid Ship Station License". So if you want to have AIS, you MUST license your vessel, and receive a Ship Station License.... No Blanket Licensing allowed... I suspect, but have yet to get a firm conformation, that AIS, as a Transponder, doesn't REQUIRE an Operators Permit or License, as once it is programmed with the vessels IDent, Callsign, Etc, it then just repeats that information, in a FIXED and Defined format, therefore wouldn't need Operator Intervention, and therefor doesn't require a Licensed Operator, like an MF/HF Radio would. Another note, Here, it is NOT DSC, that REQUIRES a GMDSS Operators License, It is the operation of an MF/HF Transmitter, that Requires an Operators permit of some kind. The Class of that License or Permit will be different for each type of vessel. Where Passenger Ships in the telegraph days REQUIRED a 1st Class Radiotelegraph License to be Chief Radio Operator, but a Cargo Vessel of the same size only REQUIRED a 2nd Class Radiotelegraph License, and a smaller (300 - 1600 Ton) vessel only REQUIRED a Marine RadioTelephone License, as they had NO Telegraph Radio's fitted, and smaller than that (under 300 Tons) you just needed your Lifetime Restricted RadioTelephone Permit.... I believe that the Commission is still of the same opinion, that VHF/Radar use on vessels that NEVER leave US Waters, can be exempted from Licensing, but if a vessel leaves US Waters, it MUST comply with International Conventions that REQUIRE a Ship Station License issued by the Country of FLAG. If the Radio Station is likely to have transmitters that can effect, and communicate with International Communications, it is REQUIRED by those same Conventions, to be operated by a Licensed Operator who has the appropriate Class of License, for that vessel, as determined by the Country of Flag. It is more about distance of communications, and effectiveness of any unintentional interference that a Station operated by a non-Licensed Operator could cause, and less about the information being conveyed. Bruce in alaska -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Thanks for your effort Bruce. It is good information.
Steve "Bruce in alaska" wrote in message ... In article , Bruce in alaska wrote: In article , Larry wrote: "Steve Lusardi" wrote in : Larry, This database is at 4 least years outdated. The Simrad model that has the approval has been out of production for at least 4 years. My AIS , bought in the US, is at least 2 generations newer. Manufactured in 2007. Steve Therein lies the big legal problem. The government bureaucrats are so far behind the technology THEY are still posting 4-year-old data as VALID. Panbo's website is much better up to date for millions less dollars. I don't understand why CG and FCC can't get their act together on marine comms/AIS/GMDSS. It all seems as if they are just baffled by anything but the basic narrow-band FM transceivers. The local staff just looks dumbfounded if you ask any of them, here. Ok, Larry, I have an Inquiry in with the Maritime Rules Chief at the FCC, but he is on vacation, till the middle of August, so I have another Inquiry with his Stand-in, who should get back to me, in the next day or two.... and I will get the definitive answer, for Licensing, for both Vessel and Operator, for both classes of AIS Transponders..... Followup.... well the guy called "Me" back, Twice now, but I was out of the cabin both times, so we are exchanging Phone Messages.... I did learn that "AIS is licensed to the vessel, on it's "Radio License", as "Transponder", and therefor can NOT be fitted on a vessel that does NOT have a valid Ship Station License". So if you want to have AIS, you MUST license your vessel, and receive a Ship Station License.... No Blanket Licensing allowed... I suspect, but have yet to get a firm conformation, that AIS, as a Transponder, doesn't REQUIRE an Operators Permit or License, as once it is programmed with the vessels IDent, Callsign, Etc, it then just repeats that information, in a FIXED and Defined format, therefore wouldn't need Operator Intervention, and therefor doesn't require a Licensed Operator, like an MF/HF Radio would. Another note, Here, it is NOT DSC, that REQUIRES a GMDSS Operators License, It is the operation of an MF/HF Transmitter, that Requires an Operators permit of some kind. The Class of that License or Permit will be different for each type of vessel. Where Passenger Ships in the telegraph days REQUIRED a 1st Class Radiotelegraph License to be Chief Radio Operator, but a Cargo Vessel of the same size only REQUIRED a 2nd Class Radiotelegraph License, and a smaller (300 - 1600 Ton) vessel only REQUIRED a Marine RadioTelephone License, as they had NO Telegraph Radio's fitted, and smaller than that (under 300 Tons) you just needed your Lifetime Restricted RadioTelephone Permit.... I believe that the Commission is still of the same opinion, that VHF/Radar use on vessels that NEVER leave US Waters, can be exempted from Licensing, but if a vessel leaves US Waters, it MUST comply with International Conventions that REQUIRE a Ship Station License issued by the Country of FLAG. If the Radio Station is likely to have transmitters that can effect, and communicate with International Communications, it is REQUIRED by those same Conventions, to be operated by a Licensed Operator who has the appropriate Class of License, for that vessel, as determined by the Country of Flag. It is more about distance of communications, and effectiveness of any unintentional interference that a Station operated by a non-Licensed Operator could cause, and less about the information being conveyed. Bruce in alaska -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Bruce in alaska wrote in
: Followup.... well the guy called "Me" back, Twice now, but I was out of the cabin both times, so we are exchanging Phone Messages.... I did learn that "AIS is licensed to the vessel, on it's "Radio License", as "Transponder", and therefor can NOT be fitted on a vessel that does NOT have a valid Ship Station License". So if you want to have AIS, you MUST license your vessel, and receive a Ship Station License.... No Blanket Licensing allowed... I suspect, but have yet to get a firm conformation, that AIS, as a Transponder, doesn't REQUIRE an Operators Permit or License, as once it is programmed with the vessels IDent, Callsign, Etc, it then just repeats that information, in a FIXED and Defined format, therefore wouldn't need Operator Intervention, and therefor doesn't require a Licensed Operator, like an MF/HF Radio would. But, each time you sail, the operator must program into AIS the destination, ETA, current draft, etc, that does change on each leg of a voyage. That would, I'm guessing, require a GMDSS Operator's License to program, which is about half the AIS message format. Well, we DID answer the pressing question that NO, casual sailboaters will NOT just plug in an AIS to their GPS and antenna and go blindly around transmitting on AIS to anyone who listens with no license or training like they do VHF FM voice. It's not a plug n play device. Another note, Here, it is NOT DSC, that REQUIRES a GMDSS Operators License, It is the operation of an MF/HF Transmitter, that Requires an Operators permit of some kind. The Class of that License or Permit will be different for each type of vessel. Where Passenger Ships in the telegraph days REQUIRED a 1st Class Radiotelegraph License to be Chief Radio Operator, but a Cargo Vessel of the same size only REQUIRED a 2nd Class Radiotelegraph License, and a smaller (300 - 1600 Ton) vessel only REQUIRED a Marine RadioTelephone License, as they had NO Telegraph Radio's fitted, and smaller than that (under 300 Tons) you just needed your Lifetime Restricted RadioTelephone Permit.... I believe that the Commission is still of the same opinion, that VHF/Radar use on vessels that NEVER leave US Waters, can be exempted from Licensing, but if a vessel leaves US Waters, it MUST comply with International Conventions that REQUIRE a Ship Station License issued by the Country of FLAG. If the Radio Station is likely to have transmitters that can effect, and communicate with International Communications, it is REQUIRED by those same Conventions, to be operated by a Licensed Operator who has the appropriate Class of License, for that vessel, as determined by the Country of Flag. In the question of AIS, unlicensed operators and boats won't be transmitting on AIS unless they get licensed. I can see a LOT of NALs going out to unlicensed stations over this from this information. It is illegal to transmit on AIS without a "transponder-endorsed" ship license. That makes sense, really, as the ship's FCC callsign is one of the message's variables. It'll be easy to police. FCC monitors simply look for valid callsigns on AIS and bust anyone without them. "Her Orgasm" is not a valid callsign...(c;] It is more about distance of communications, and effectiveness of any unintentional interference that a Station operated by a non-Licensed Operator could cause, and less about the information being conveyed. Bruce in alaska It'll be interesting to see what they say about the OPERATOR's license required to operate both A and B AIS on there properly-licensed and installed boats. Boaters are in for a shock. If you do get to talk to him, please ask my age-old question, which license is required to transmit NON EMERGENCY DSC calls on VHF? Is it legal for a NON-licensed boat with unlicensed operators to operate non- emergency DSC on VHF, which is DATA or TRANSPONDER...not voice? Reading Part 80: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_00.html 80.151 is WAY behind in begin upgraded. It only has GROL other than the old telegraph licenses on it. GMDSS operator licenses aren't even mentioned! It's crazy the way they've left it. It makes no sense at all. Now, Let's discuss GMDSS Restricted Operator (RG class), less than 20 miles offsho http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=rg "The exam consists of questions from the following categories: general information, VHF digital selective calling, and carriage requirement. To pass, an examinee must correctly answer at least 38 out of 50 questions." This is the GMDSS VHF OPERATOR's license....VHF DSC! That's what it's for! No boaters I know have one.... Going further than 20 miles offshore with DSC? http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=do Then you need a GMDSS Operator's License (DO class), which is all DSC, HF and VHF. This is the operator's license for DSC equipped Ship Stations going offshore to foreign ports....like the Bahamas. Now, let's look what it says about Restricted RADIOTELEPHONE Operator's Permit, the one all the boaters just write off for and get to operate Ship RADIOTELEPHONE stations: http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=rr If you read the now-long list of things you can operate WITHOUT the RR- class Restricted license, most boaters who don't go overseas or have HF aboard don't need them. If they operate HF RADIOTELEPHONES, or go offshore, of course, they do. Find ANY reference to operating DSC, whatsoever, under this license. There is none because this is a RADIOTELEPHONE license....VOICE and plug-n-play radars that have no tuning ONLY.....No AIS, No GMDSS, NO DSC on any band either! Pressing the DSC button when the boat is sinking, of course, in a distress, is legal without any license at all....just a Boat/US MMSI and a GPS input that works is fine. CALLING "HER ORGASM" ON DSC WITHOUT A PROPER GMDSS RESTRICTED OPERATOR LICENSE IS NOT! That's what it says.... Please ask the FCC guys for clarification on this matter. Part 80 doesn't even discuss this, it's still written for 1969 boats with Raytheon tube radios on them.....or RCA CW transmitters using 813s. -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Thanks Larry, good research, but this now opens another pandora's box. If
you have a Ships Station license and your equipment is all IMO approved equipment, even though your vessel size does not require IMO/SOLAS compliance, will I now be subject to the periodic inspection and recertification rules these compliances demand? My gut feeling is yes. Steve "Larry" wrote in message ... Bruce in alaska wrote in : Followup.... well the guy called "Me" back, Twice now, but I was out of the cabin both times, so we are exchanging Phone Messages.... I did learn that "AIS is licensed to the vessel, on it's "Radio License", as "Transponder", and therefor can NOT be fitted on a vessel that does NOT have a valid Ship Station License". So if you want to have AIS, you MUST license your vessel, and receive a Ship Station License.... No Blanket Licensing allowed... I suspect, but have yet to get a firm conformation, that AIS, as a Transponder, doesn't REQUIRE an Operators Permit or License, as once it is programmed with the vessels IDent, Callsign, Etc, it then just repeats that information, in a FIXED and Defined format, therefore wouldn't need Operator Intervention, and therefor doesn't require a Licensed Operator, like an MF/HF Radio would. But, each time you sail, the operator must program into AIS the destination, ETA, current draft, etc, that does change on each leg of a voyage. That would, I'm guessing, require a GMDSS Operator's License to program, which is about half the AIS message format. Well, we DID answer the pressing question that NO, casual sailboaters will NOT just plug in an AIS to their GPS and antenna and go blindly around transmitting on AIS to anyone who listens with no license or training like they do VHF FM voice. It's not a plug n play device. Another note, Here, it is NOT DSC, that REQUIRES a GMDSS Operators License, It is the operation of an MF/HF Transmitter, that Requires an Operators permit of some kind. The Class of that License or Permit will be different for each type of vessel. Where Passenger Ships in the telegraph days REQUIRED a 1st Class Radiotelegraph License to be Chief Radio Operator, but a Cargo Vessel of the same size only REQUIRED a 2nd Class Radiotelegraph License, and a smaller (300 - 1600 Ton) vessel only REQUIRED a Marine RadioTelephone License, as they had NO Telegraph Radio's fitted, and smaller than that (under 300 Tons) you just needed your Lifetime Restricted RadioTelephone Permit.... I believe that the Commission is still of the same opinion, that VHF/Radar use on vessels that NEVER leave US Waters, can be exempted from Licensing, but if a vessel leaves US Waters, it MUST comply with International Conventions that REQUIRE a Ship Station License issued by the Country of FLAG. If the Radio Station is likely to have transmitters that can effect, and communicate with International Communications, it is REQUIRED by those same Conventions, to be operated by a Licensed Operator who has the appropriate Class of License, for that vessel, as determined by the Country of Flag. In the question of AIS, unlicensed operators and boats won't be transmitting on AIS unless they get licensed. I can see a LOT of NALs going out to unlicensed stations over this from this information. It is illegal to transmit on AIS without a "transponder-endorsed" ship license. That makes sense, really, as the ship's FCC callsign is one of the message's variables. It'll be easy to police. FCC monitors simply look for valid callsigns on AIS and bust anyone without them. "Her Orgasm" is not a valid callsign...(c;] It is more about distance of communications, and effectiveness of any unintentional interference that a Station operated by a non-Licensed Operator could cause, and less about the information being conveyed. Bruce in alaska It'll be interesting to see what they say about the OPERATOR's license required to operate both A and B AIS on there properly-licensed and installed boats. Boaters are in for a shock. If you do get to talk to him, please ask my age-old question, which license is required to transmit NON EMERGENCY DSC calls on VHF? Is it legal for a NON-licensed boat with unlicensed operators to operate non- emergency DSC on VHF, which is DATA or TRANSPONDER...not voice? Reading Part 80: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_00.html 80.151 is WAY behind in begin upgraded. It only has GROL other than the old telegraph licenses on it. GMDSS operator licenses aren't even mentioned! It's crazy the way they've left it. It makes no sense at all. Now, Let's discuss GMDSS Restricted Operator (RG class), less than 20 miles offsho http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=rg "The exam consists of questions from the following categories: general information, VHF digital selective calling, and carriage requirement. To pass, an examinee must correctly answer at least 38 out of 50 questions." This is the GMDSS VHF OPERATOR's license....VHF DSC! That's what it's for! No boaters I know have one.... Going further than 20 miles offshore with DSC? http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=do Then you need a GMDSS Operator's License (DO class), which is all DSC, HF and VHF. This is the operator's license for DSC equipped Ship Stations going offshore to foreign ports....like the Bahamas. Now, let's look what it says about Restricted RADIOTELEPHONE Operator's Permit, the one all the boaters just write off for and get to operate Ship RADIOTELEPHONE stations: http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=rr If you read the now-long list of things you can operate WITHOUT the RR- class Restricted license, most boaters who don't go overseas or have HF aboard don't need them. If they operate HF RADIOTELEPHONES, or go offshore, of course, they do. Find ANY reference to operating DSC, whatsoever, under this license. There is none because this is a RADIOTELEPHONE license....VOICE and plug-n-play radars that have no tuning ONLY.....No AIS, No GMDSS, NO DSC on any band either! Pressing the DSC button when the boat is sinking, of course, in a distress, is legal without any license at all....just a Boat/US MMSI and a GPS input that works is fine. CALLING "HER ORGASM" ON DSC WITHOUT A PROPER GMDSS RESTRICTED OPERATOR LICENSE IS NOT! That's what it says.... Please ask the FCC guys for clarification on this matter. Part 80 doesn't even discuss this, it's still written for 1969 boats with Raytheon tube radios on them.....or RCA CW transmitters using 813s. -- ----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
That's a big leap John. You will need a Ship Station license if you sail
internationally period and AIS has nothing to do with it. Your statement is correct only if you sail within US waters. If you have to have a Ships Station license, what difference does it make with either class A or B? Steve "John Navas" wrote in message ... On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:59:28 +0000, Larry wrote in : Bruce in alaska wrote in : Followup.... well the guy called "Me" back, Twice now, but I was out of the cabin both times, so we are exchanging Phone Messages.... I did learn that "AIS is licensed to the vessel, on it's "Radio License", as "Transponder", and therefor can NOT be fitted on a vessel that does NOT have a valid Ship Station License". So if you want to have AIS, you MUST license your vessel, and receive a Ship Station License.... No Blanket Licensing allowed... I suspect, but have yet to get a firm conformation, that AIS, as a Transponder, doesn't REQUIRE an Operators Permit or License, as once it is programmed with the vessels IDent, Callsign, Etc, it then just repeats that information, in a FIXED and Defined format, therefore wouldn't need Operator Intervention, and therefor doesn't require a Licensed Operator, like an MF/HF Radio would. But, each time you sail, the operator must program into AIS the destination, ETA, current draft, etc, that does change on each leg of a voyage. That would, I'm guessing, require a GMDSS Operator's License to program, which is about half the AIS message format. Not required for AIS Class B. Well, we DID answer the pressing question that NO, casual sailboaters will NOT just plug in an AIS to their GPS and antenna and go blindly around transmitting on AIS to anyone who listens with no license or training like they do VHF FM voice. It's not a plug n play device. AIS Class B is essentially play and play. Definitive AIS information: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/enav/ais/ -- Best regards, John Navas, publisher of Navas' Sailing & Racing in the San Francisco Bay Area http://sail.navas.us/ |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
In article ,
"Steve Lusardi" wrote: Thanks Larry, good research, but this now opens another pandora's box. If you have a Ships Station license and your equipment is all IMO approved equipment, even though your vessel size does not require IMO/SOLAS compliance, will I now be subject to the periodic inspection and recertification rules these compliances demand? My gut feeling is yes. Steve Ok, Here is the "Straight from the HORSE's Mouth, No ****, Poop" on licensing AIS in the USA. I talked to the Wireless Rules Guy, himself... AND.... Wait for it..... to be very frank, the term "Dufus" comes to mind. Larry is certainly CORRECT... someone back in FCC DC HQ is thinking like a Bureaucrat, and not an Engineer, or Regulator.... 1. AIS "IS" Covered by the Blanket US Waters Only VHF Marine License.... so it MAY be fitted to any US Vessel, with or WITHOUT a Ship Station License. a. MMSI would be issued by Boats USA or one of the civilian MMSI Registrars. b. Callsign can be either, some Old Callsign that the vessel had previously, OR, something you MAKE UP, yourself.... No ****... that is what Mr. FCC said.... 2. As a Transponder, it requires NO Operators License, the same as a Marine SART. for Radar. 3. This is for ALL AIS Transponders, of Either Class, fitted aboard a US Flagged, Documented, non-Documented, or State Registered or unregistered Vessel. I really can't believe, that this, is how it it is, BUT THAT IS, "WHAT the Guy SAID"..... SO, untill things change, That is the State of AIS, in the USofA.... -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
"Steve Lusardi" wrote in
: Thanks Larry, good research, but this now opens another pandora's box. If you have a Ships Station license and your equipment is all IMO approved equipment, even though your vessel size does not require IMO/SOLAS compliance, will I now be subject to the periodic inspection and recertification rules these compliances demand? My gut feeling is yes. Steve Don't think they'll have anything to do with pleasure craft inspection, as a practical matter, not by law. Anything that requires WORK they'll shy away from. My concern was only because boaters take way too casual a view about radio LICENSING than is healthy, especially in this paranoia over "homeland security". They think that just because they don't have to have a license to operate a VHF FM or an automated radar, that allows them to operate anything else the radio sales dream teams have to offer, and that's simply not true. The FCC regs seem quite clear on GMDSS/DSC operation. They have special licenses AND TRAINING to use them that's required for their proper operation, not just plug n play on S/V "Her Orgasm" at the whim of Captain Clegg. I merely wanted to know from someone with FCC connections what was proper to keep people from getting FCC and CG nastygrams, which can be very unsettling, even for the rich, when they start talking about $10,000/DAY! Noone wants to inspect. But they DO want pleasure boats off these commercial-in-mind systems. Everyone, of course, except the equipment manufacturers, who would install one in every Volkswagen if they thought they could sell it. -- ----- Larry Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the entrails of the last cleric. |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Bruce in alaska wrote in
: In article , "Steve Lusardi" wrote: Thanks Larry, good research, but this now opens another pandora's box. If you have a Ships Station license and your equipment is all IMO approved equipment, even though your vessel size does not require IMO/SOLAS compliance, will I now be subject to the periodic inspection and recertification rules these compliances demand? My gut feeling is yes. Steve Ok, Here is the "Straight from the HORSE's Mouth, No ****, Poop" on licensing AIS in the USA. I talked to the Wireless Rules Guy, himself... AND.... Wait for it..... to be very frank, the term "Dufus" comes to mind. Larry is certainly CORRECT... someone back in FCC DC HQ is thinking like a Bureaucrat, and not an Engineer, or Regulator.... 1. AIS "IS" Covered by the Blanket US Waters Only VHF Marine License.... so it MAY be fitted to any US Vessel, with or WITHOUT a Ship Station License. a. MMSI would be issued by Boats USA or one of the civilian MMSI Registrars. b. Callsign can be either, some Old Callsign that the vessel had previously, OR, something you MAKE UP, yourself.... No ****... that is what Mr. FCC said.... 2. As a Transponder, it requires NO Operators License, the same as a Marine SART. for Radar. 3. This is for ALL AIS Transponders, of Either Class, fitted aboard a US Flagged, Documented, non-Documented, or State Registered or unregistered Vessel. I really can't believe, that this, is how it it is, BUT THAT IS, "WHAT the Guy SAID"..... SO, untill things change, That is the State of AIS, in the USofA.... Good grief. Things at FCC have rotted much further away than I thought. Ok, I'll just stand back and let them all have at it. Has this guy got a name and number we can reference when the NALs are delivered to the PO Boxes? "Yes, but Mr Rogers said.............and that's what we've been operating under, his official statements, seeing as how the rules and websites are so screwed up and unreadable." That might be helpful to someone who's staring that NAL in the face requiring a reply "or else". -- ----- Larry Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the entrails of the last cleric. |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
Bruce in alaska wrote in news:fast-125934.11171307072009
@unknown.usenetserver.com: SO, untill things change, That is the State of AIS, in the USofA.... Keep an eye out! I might put AIS on my diesel stepvan! Evidently FCC doesn't care.....(c;] Wonder if I can use W4CSC as the call. I didn't make it up. I paid for it... Won't be long you won't need a ham license, either....just money fed to the ULS machine will do, the only thing FCC lawyers are interested in. -- ----- Larry Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the entrails of the last cleric. |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
In article ,
Larry wrote: Bruce in alaska wrote in : In article , "Steve Lusardi" wrote: Thanks Larry, good research, but this now opens another pandora's box. If you have a Ships Station license and your equipment is all IMO approved equipment, even though your vessel size does not require IMO/SOLAS compliance, will I now be subject to the periodic inspection and recertification rules these compliances demand? My gut feeling is yes. Steve Ok, Here is the "Straight from the HORSE's Mouth, No ****, Poop" on licensing AIS in the USA. I talked to the Wireless Rules Guy, himself... AND.... Wait for it..... to be very frank, the term "Dufus" comes to mind. Larry is certainly CORRECT... someone back in FCC DC HQ is thinking like a Bureaucrat, and not an Engineer, or Regulator.... 1. AIS "IS" Covered by the Blanket US Waters Only VHF Marine License.... so it MAY be fitted to any US Vessel, with or WITHOUT a Ship Station License. a. MMSI would be issued by Boats USA or one of the civilian MMSI Registrars. b. Callsign can be either, some Old Callsign that the vessel had previously, OR, something you MAKE UP, yourself.... No ****... that is what Mr. FCC said.... 2. As a Transponder, it requires NO Operators License, the same as a Marine SART. for Radar. 3. This is for ALL AIS Transponders, of Either Class, fitted aboard a US Flagged, Documented, non-Documented, or State Registered or unregistered Vessel. I really can't believe, that this, is how it it is, BUT THAT IS, "WHAT the Guy SAID"..... SO, untill things change, That is the State of AIS, in the USofA.... Good grief. Things at FCC have rotted much further away than I thought. Ok, I'll just stand back and let them all have at it. Has this guy got a name and number we can reference when the NALs are delivered to the PO Boxes? "Yes, but Mr Rogers said.............and that's what we've been operating under, his official statements, seeing as how the rules and websites are so screwed up and unreadable." That might be helpful to someone who's staring that NAL in the face requiring a reply "or else". Well, it seems like there is a "SMALL" change in the FCC's Statement about the Current Regulations for AIS fitted aboard "a US Flagged, Documented, non-Documented, State Registered or unregistered Vessel".... Mr FCC called "ME" back this morning, and on reflection, and consultation, with others at HQ, his position "Now" is..... 1. b. Callsigns FOR non-Licensed Voluntary Equipped US Flagged Vessels. The Callsign programed into the AIS, should be the Vessels NAME, the same name that is in the NAME Frame on the AIS. MMSI would be issued to that Vessel Name, by one of the civilian Registrars, and logged into that Database. So, at least they got that "Small" Ident Problem solved.... BUT the rest is still.... well what it is..... Bruce in alaska -- Bruce (semiretired powderman & exFCC Field Inspector for Southeastern Alaska) Bruce Gordon * Debora Gordon R.N. Bruce's Trading Post P.O. Box EXI Excursion Inlet South Juneau, Alaska 99850 Excursion Inlet, Alaska 99850 AL7AQ * KL7WJ www.btpost.net www.99850.net |
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
|
Any USED AIS Class A Transponders?
In article ,
Larry wrote: Bruce Gordon wrote in news:bgordon- : So, at least they got that "Small" Ident Problem solved.... BUT the rest is still.... well what it is..... Bruce in alaska well, what it is.... Thanks for the information. I'm sure someone will go back to rule making and enforcement, someday.... I am not expecting it in "My Lifetime"....... -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
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