Zac
 

Zac's forestay snapped 10 foot above deck. Anyone care to venture why
it snapped at that point?
This was new rigging and inside a roller furling.
Gordon

Zac
 

Gordon wrote:

Zac's forestay snapped 10 foot above deck. Anyone care to venture why
it snapped at that point?

He was born under an evil star?

At this rate, if he completes his trip, it'll be swimming whilst packing
whatever's left of his boat in his back pocket.

Zac
 

"Gordon" wrote in message
m...

Zac's forestay snapped 10 foot above deck. Anyone care to venture why it
snapped at that point?
This was new rigging and inside a roller furling.
Gordon

I'm guessing that where it snapped was the weakest point in the forestay.

Zac
 

On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 08:29:17 -0800, Gordon wrote:

Zac's forestay snapped 10 foot above deck. Anyone care to venture why
it snapped at that point?

Possible hit from a spinnaker pole ?

Perhaps some fault within the roller furler created a chafe point ?

Zac
 

"Gordon" wrote in message
m...

Zac's forestay snapped 10 foot above deck. Anyone care to venture why it
snapped at that point?
This was new rigging and inside a roller furling.
Gordon


Ha ha ha! Told y'all so. The boy doesn't have a suitable boat and he doesn't
know what he's doing.

It's very easy to figure out why it broke ten foot above deck. Wind the
damned sail up and that's where the clue and sheets end up. Any rocking and
rolling of the boat creates a stress point right there. Stainless steel work
hardens and crystallizes when bent back and forth. Now, we all know how much
Zac motors - he's always relying on his motor and we've heard how rough the
seas have been a lot of the time when the wind was down and his was motoring
along rolling from gunwale to gunwale. Each and every time the sheets yank
on the headstay ten feet up where the clew wraps.

I've been telling you people for too many years to count that roll-up sails
are unseamanlike. This is just further proof. He was stupid to go to sea
with anything other than a selection of 6-8 reliable hank-on headsails for
any and all conditions of wind.

I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard

Zac
 

On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 08:29:17 -0800, Gordon wrote:


Zac's forestay snapped 10 foot above deck. Anyone care to venture why
it snapped at that point?
This was new rigging and inside a roller furling.
Gordon

Two plausible causes:
1) a kink pre- or post- installation was straightened out, but damaged
the lay.
2) a weak spot in manufacture of from in-situ corrosion.

Brian W

Zac
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote

It's very easy to figure out why it broke ten foot above deck. Wind the
damned sail up and that's where the clue and sheets end up. Any rocking
and rolling of the boat creates a stress point right there. Stainless
steel work hardens and crystallizes when bent back and forth.

This quite a plausible proposition on the face of it. I don't put much
tension on my sheets when stowing and this is probably a good reason to
continue that practice. I rely on either multiple rolls and/or a sail tie.

I've never heard of a headstay failure at this point though. Has anyone
else?

--
Roger Long

Zac
 

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
troll sh*t removed
This quite a plausible proposition on the face of it. I don't put much
tension on my sheets when stowing and this is probably a good reason to
continue that practice. I rely on either multiple rolls and/or a sail
tie.

I've never heard of a headstay failure at this point though. Has anyone
else?

If you've got a furler, then putting a "lot of tension" on the sheets will
make it virtually impossible to furl the sail. At least that's my
experience. In fact, more than a light hand on one or both sheets makes it
extremely difficult. I doubt that was the problem. I don't find it plausable
at all. I just looked, and according to the reports the forestay separated
at the chainplate at the bow not 10 feet up... not sure where that came
from? That was the report Nov. 6th.

Also, he's sailing a cutter rig, so no major rigging failure.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Zac
 

On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 15:10:11 -0500, "Roger Long"
wrote:

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote

It's very easy to figure out why it broke ten foot above deck. Wind the
damned sail up and that's where the clue and sheets end up. Any rocking
and rolling of the boat creates a stress point right there. Stainless
steel work hardens and crystallizes when bent back and forth.

This quite a plausible proposition on the face of it. I don't put much
tension on my sheets when stowing and this is probably a good reason to
continue that practice. I rely on either multiple rolls and/or a sail tie.

I've never heard of a headstay failure at this point though. Has anyone
else?

I also wrap the sheets multiple times around, but don't put much
tension on them. I always use a sail tie when leaving the boat. I made
it into a habit.

I think there must have been some pre-existing damage to that section
of the forestay. The new furler is a clue that something may have
happened to the forestay during installation. I really can't imagine
that a sound forestay would break from mere flexing unless it was MANY
years old - like past replacement time anyway.

Zac
 

I think he was talking about retensioning the sheets after everything is
furled. I've seen people do this. With enough tension, there could be
pressure of the foils on the stay at the point where the sheets come off the
wrap.

Thinking about it since, I can't believe it would be an issue on a new rig.

--
Roger Long

Zac
 

On Nov 9, 8:29*am, Gordon wrote:
* *Zac's forestay snapped 10 foot above deck. Anyone care to venture why
it snapped at that point?
* This was new rigging and inside a roller furling.
* *Gordon

cause he is trusting wire.
the boys doing a good job of it so far. if he fixes this little
problem he will do fine.
problem i have is he keeps going into port for fixes he could do at
sea.
so what a bit of rigging broke splice it and move on. would take at
worst a couple of hours.
sounds like the boy has a baby sitter.

Zac
 

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I think he was talking about retensioning the sheets after everything is
furled. I've seen people do this. With enough tension, there could be
pressure of the foils on the stay at the point where the sheets come off
the wrap.

Thinking about it since, I can't believe it would be an issue on a new
rig.

--
Roger Long



Perhaps, but it appears to have failed at the chainplate at the bow.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Zac
 

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I think he was talking about retensioning the sheets after everything is
furled. I've seen people do this. With enough tension, there could be
pressure of the foils on the stay at the point where the sheets come off
the wrap.

Thinking about it since, I can't believe it would be an issue on a new
rig.

--
Roger Long



FYI...
http://www.yachtingmonthly.com//auto...539ymnews.html

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Zac
 

On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 08:29:17 -0800, Gordon wrote:


Zac's forestay snapped 10 foot above deck. Anyone care to venture why
it snapped at that point?

Was this a solid rod? If so, maybe there was a nick which would
concentrate the stress. Consider that the scratches involved in
cutting glass are not very deep. Fatigue cracking will start at the
nick, but this stuff was new. If there is a kink in cable, it is
weakened and will fail at that point if enough stress is applied.

This was new rigging and inside a roller furling.
Gordon

Zac
 

On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 13:10:09 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

... I just looked, and according to the reports the forestay separated
at the chainplate at the bow not 10 feet up... not sure where that came
from? That was the report Nov. 6th.

Also, he's sailing a cutter rig, so no major rigging failure.

The lower terminal is the favorite for failures.
Closer to the water. Positioned to trap moisture.
All the same, I rerigged a sailboat where the upper stays parted
near the masthead,

Brian W

Zac
 

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 13:10:09 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

... I just looked, and according to the reports the forestay separated
at the chainplate at the bow not 10 feet up... not sure where that came
from? That was the report Nov. 6th.

Also, he's sailing a cutter rig, so no major rigging failure.

The lower terminal is the favorite for failures.
Closer to the water. Positioned to trap moisture.
All the same, I rerigged a sailboat where the upper stays parted
near the masthead,

Brian W



Seems about right. I guess the early (or distorted) reports were a mid-stay
failure.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Zac
 

"Two meter troll" wrote in message
...
On Nov 9, 8:29 am, Gordon wrote:
Zac's forestay snapped 10 foot above deck. Anyone care to venture why
it snapped at that point?
This was new rigging and inside a roller furling.
Gordon

cause he is trusting wire.
the boys doing a good job of it so far. if he fixes this little
problem he will do fine.
problem i have is he keeps going into port for fixes he could do at
sea.
so what a bit of rigging broke splice it and move on. would take at
worst a couple of hours.
sounds like the boy has a baby sitter.

Tell us how you would 'splice' 1x19 wire...

Zac
 

Edgar wrote:

"Two meter troll" wrote in message
...
On Nov 9, 8:29 am, Gordon wrote:

Zac's forestay snapped 10 foot above deck. Anyone care to venture why
it snapped at that point?
This was new rigging and inside a roller furling.
Gordon


cause he is trusting wire.
the boys doing a good job of it so far. if he fixes this little
problem he will do fine.
problem i have is he keeps going into port for fixes he could do at
sea.
so what a bit of rigging broke splice it and move on. would take at
worst a couple of hours.
sounds like the boy has a baby sitter.

Tell us how you would 'splice' 1x19 wire...




With a fid, of course.

Hold the short bottom end bewteen your toes, and the long upper part
of the stay in your teeth.

Then splice like crazy between the rolls!

Zac
 

Edgar wrote:

Tell us how you would 'splice' 1x19 wire...

And inside a roller foil LOL! I'm waiting to hear this. Another non
sailer reveals his ignorance.

--
Roger Long

Zac
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote
where the clue and sheets end up

Neal hasn't a clew...

Zac
 

In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

I think he was talking about retensioning the sheets after everything is
furled. I've seen people do this. With enough tension, there could be
pressure of the foils on the stay at the point where the sheets come off the
wrap.

Thinking about it since, I can't believe it would be an issue on a new rig.

If the backstay was slacker than it should have been, and the roller
furling slide break-point wasn't bolted tightly, the result could cause
the furling slide to v-bend at that point. Then, when unfurling/furling
often, caused the break to happen.

Basically, bad installation.

--
Molesworth

Zac
 

"Nigel Molesworth" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

I think he was talking about retensioning the sheets after everything is
furled. I've seen people do this. With enough tension, there could be
pressure of the foils on the stay at the point where the sheets come off
the
wrap.

Thinking about it since, I can't believe it would be an issue on a new
rig.

If the backstay was slacker than it should have been, and the roller
furling slide break-point wasn't bolted tightly, the result could cause
the furling slide to v-bend at that point. Then, when unfurling/furling
often, caused the break to happen.

Basically, bad installation.


All roll-ups are, by definition, bad installations.

Wilbur Hubbard

Zac
 

On Nov 10, 1:43*am, "Edgar" wrote:
"Two meter troll" wrote in ...
On Nov 9, 8:29 am, Gordon wrote:

Zac's forestay snapped 10 foot above deck. Anyone care to venture why
it snapped at that point?
This was new rigging and inside a roller furling.
Gordon

cause he is trusting wire.
the boys doing a good job of it so far. if he fixes this little
problem he will do fine.
problem i have is he keeps going into port for fixes he could do at
sea.
so what a bit of rigging broke splice it and move on. would take at
worst a couple of hours.
sounds like the boy has a baby sitter.

Tell us how you would 'splice' 1x19 wire...


just like you would splice a single yarn in real wire rope. you unlay
and bundle the outer strands so you got room to work make a round
sennet with the inner strands then make a round sennit with the outer
strands around the inner. in effect you are makeing a chinese finger
trap the harder it is pulled the tighter it gets if you really want to
add some gorilla to it you slip in a bit of copper solid core in the
inner sennet. an eye slpice is essentually the same except the inner
core is woven into the inner core if the standing part of the eye the
strands are relaied to the splice then the outer is made in the same
round sennet around the whole cable. clap a seizing on it and your
done a simple soldure and a terminalpacked with silicone caulk would
be the trick for the electronics.

its not real hard you go up the mast and uncouple the damn thing at
the top, uncouple it at the bottom, unfurl and do the splice. reverse
the process tension as needed. its wire rope not brain surgery.
ya'll ever heard of a bosn,s chair? it gets you aloft with a marlin
spike so you can take the little pin out of the shackle a riggers
helper makes it a bit nicer but your pockets will do.

i was thinking of being as much of an asshole as you all are. but my
wife pointed out that some folks may have never actually done wire
rope splicing and it is a diffrent animal than most rope work.

Zac
 

Ekritter wrote:

i was thinking of being as much of an asshole as you all are.

Too bad you couldn't help yourself....

Zac
 

On Nov 10, 3:52*pm, Marty wrote:
Ekritter wrote:

i was thinking of being as much of an asshole as you all are.

Too bad you couldn't help yourself....

Thats cause I am an asshole to adults.

Zac
 

On 2008-11-09 15:10:11 -0500, "Roger Long" said:

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote

It's very easy to figure out why it broke ten foot above deck. Wind the
damned sail up and that's where the clue and sheets end up. Any rocking
and rolling of the boat creates a stress point right there. Stainless
steel work hardens and crystallizes when bent back and forth.

This quite a plausible proposition on the face of it. I don't put much
tension on my sheets when stowing and this is probably a good reason to
continue that practice. I rely on either multiple rolls and/or a sail tie.

I've never heard of a headstay failure at this point though. Has anyone
else?

How often is he going to furl the genny with tensioned sheets on a
"race" around the world? Most likely, he's been using that sail a lot,
hasn't furled it much. If he's furled it, he'll have been using the
Yankee so not tensioned the Genny sheets.

IF it's 10' up, I suspect there is/was a joint there. (or MFG defect)

IF, as a magazine report says, it was at the chainplate, I suspect the
cotter pin keeper first, a high-percentage cause of masts going down.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Zac
 

On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:46:25 -0800 (PST), Ekritter
wrote:

i was thinking of being as much of an asshole as you all are. but my
wife pointed out that some folks may have never actually done wire
rope splicing and it is a diffrent animal than most rope work.

Tug boats sure as hell don't discard that 1/2 mile long wire, just
because it parted. Splicing one does not sound like much fun.

Casady

Zac
 

On Nov 11, 5:06*am, (Richard Casady)
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:46:25 -0800 (PST), Ekritter
wrote:

i was thinking of being as much of an asshole as you all are. but my
wife pointed out that some folks may have never actually done wire
rope splicing and it is a diffrent animal than most rope work.

Tug boats sure as hell don't discard that 1/2 mile long wire, just
because it parted. Splicing one does not sound like much fun.

Casady

it's not to bad. most times it takes a couple of hours to get it done
right.