I experience a very short battery-life and I want to know the cause
before I install anything new.
The fridge / freezer and other consumers constantly draw power
(between 4 and 11 amp)
I have a 3-stage 120 amp charger (bulk at 14,4,absorption at 13,6 and
float at 13,0)
My batteries are 18 months old. 6 x 180 Ah. They were called
"Maintenance-free". As I understand now that means you can't add
destilled water later on, don't see any advantage of that.
At present my battery-capacity is very low. As I look at it now I'm
confronted with replacing my batteries after 18 months.


Anyone familiar with such problems that (maybe) arise from using the
charger as a power supply during float-charging?

Do I bourdon my batteries by creating a lot of small
discarge/charge-cycles?

Any advice is welcomed for this (surely not unique?) liveaboard-
stuation with 220AC shore-power and use of 12-v appliances.

Thanks in advance, Len.

Comments below:

Len wrote in message ...
I experience a very short battery-life and I want to know the cause
before I install anything new.
The fridge / freezer and other consumers constantly draw power
(between 4 and 11 amp)
I have a 3-stage 120 amp charger (bulk at 14,4,absorption at 13,6 and
float at 13,0)
My batteries are 18 months old. 6 x 180 Ah. They were called
"Maintenance-free". As I understand now that means you can't add
destilled water later on, don't see any advantage of that.
At present my battery-capacity is very low. As I look at it now I'm
confronted with replacing my batteries after 18 months.


Anyone familiar with such problems that (maybe) arise from using the
charger as a power supply during float-charging?

Do I bourdon my batteries by creating a lot of small
discarge/charge-cycles?

Any advice is welcomed for this (surely not unique?) liveaboard-
stuation with 220AC shore-power and use of 12-v appliances.

Thanks in advance, Len.

I suspect that your charger sees a lower battery voltage when you are using
it as a power supply. As a result it comes out of float and goes back to
either bulk or absorption voltage levels, boiling the electrolyte out of
your "maintenance free" batteries. Many maintenance free batteries actually
have caps that can be removed by careful prying, they come off in groups of
three. Check yours and see if your electrolyte level is way low. Adding
some distilled water to refill and then charging will get some capacity
back. Next time buy flooded batteries and "Hydrocaps" for them.
http://www.solar-electric.com/hydrocaps.html
--
Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
Cape Breton Island, Canada
kenheaton AT ess wye dee DOT eastlink DOT ca

Op Thu, 6 May 2004 07:19:34 -0300, schreef "Ken Heaton"
:


Anyone familiar with such problems that (maybe) arise from using the
charger as a power supply during float-charging?


I suspect that your charger sees a lower battery voltage when you are using
it as a power supply. As a result it comes out of float and goes back to
either bulk or absorption voltage levels, boiling the electrolyte out of
your "maintenance free" batteries. Many maintenance free batteries actually
have caps that can be removed by careful prying, they come off in groups of
three. Check yours and see if your electrolyte level is way low. Adding
some distilled water to refill and then charging will get some capacity
back. Next time buy flooded batteries and "Hydrocaps" for them.
http://www.solar-electric.com/hydrocaps.html

Everyone , thanks for your replies.
Ken, I think you hit it spot on.
Do you use the hydrocaps yourself ? Seems like the ultimate solution.

Thanks again, Len.

I think that a liquid lead-acid battery plus hydrocaps may be
about the same cost as a gel or AGM.

Doug
s/v CAllista

Len wrote in message ...
Op Thu, 6 May 2004 07:19:34 -0300, schreef "Ken Heaton"
:


Anyone familiar with such problems that (maybe) arise from using the
charger as a power supply during float-charging?


I suspect that your charger sees a lower battery voltage when you are
using
it as a power supply. As a result it comes out of float and goes back to
either bulk or absorption voltage levels, boiling the electrolyte out of
your "maintenance free" batteries. Many maintenance free batteries
actually
have caps that can be removed by careful prying, they come off in groups
of
three. Check yours and see if your electrolyte level is way low. Adding
some distilled water to refill and then charging will get some capacity
back. Next time buy flooded batteries and "Hydrocaps" for them.
http://www.solar-electric.com/hydrocaps.html

Everyone , thanks for your replies.
Ken, I think you hit it spot on.
Do you use the hydrocaps yourself ? Seems like the ultimate solution.

Thanks again, Len.

I wish that were so, but a dozen hydrocaps is under $100. Replacing my 4 golf
cart batteries with AGMs will be about a $400 premium.



"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I think that a liquid lead-acid battery plus hydrocaps may be
about the same cost as a gel or AGM.

Doug
s/v CAllista

Len wrote in message ...
Op Thu, 6 May 2004 07:19:34 -0300, schreef "Ken Heaton"
:


Anyone familiar with such problems that (maybe) arise from using the
charger as a power supply during float-charging?


I suspect that your charger sees a lower battery voltage when you are
using
it as a power supply. As a result it comes out of float and goes back to
either bulk or absorption voltage levels, boiling the electrolyte out of
your "maintenance free" batteries. Many maintenance free batteries
actually
have caps that can be removed by careful prying, they come off in groups
of
three. Check yours and see if your electrolyte level is way low. Adding
some distilled water to refill and then charging will get some capacity
back. Next time buy flooded batteries and "Hydrocaps" for them.
http://www.solar-electric.com/hydrocaps.html

Everyone , thanks for your replies.
Ken, I think you hit it spot on.
Do you use the hydrocaps yourself ? Seems like the ultimate solution.

Thanks again, Len.

I think you have proved my point. If golf-cart batteries are $75 ea. Then
4 plus the hydrocaps is $400. Golf-carts can be found for a little cheaper,
but not much. I only use real Trojan maroon case golf carts.

Doug
s/v CAllista

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
I wish that were so, but a dozen hydrocaps is under $100. Replacing my 4
golf
cart batteries with AGMs will be about a $400 premium.



"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I think that a liquid lead-acid battery plus hydrocaps may be
about the same cost as a gel or AGM.

Doug
s/v CAllista

Len wrote in message
...
Op Thu, 6 May 2004 07:19:34 -0300, schreef "Ken Heaton"
:


Anyone familiar with such problems that (maybe) arise from using
the
charger as a power supply during float-charging?


I suspect that your charger sees a lower battery voltage when you are
using
it as a power supply. As a result it comes out of float and goes
back to
either bulk or absorption voltage levels, boiling the electrolyte out
of
your "maintenance free" batteries. Many maintenance free batteries
actually
have caps that can be removed by careful prying, they come off in
groups
of
three. Check yours and see if your electrolyte level is way low.
Adding
some distilled water to refill and then charging will get some
capacity
back. Next time buy flooded batteries and "Hydrocaps" for them.
http://www.solar-electric.com/hydrocaps.html

Everyone , thanks for your replies.
Ken, I think you hit it spot on.
Do you use the hydrocaps yourself ? Seems like the ultimate solution.

Thanks again, Len.

Comments below:

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I think that a liquid lead-acid battery plus hydrocaps may be
about the same cost as a gel or AGM.

Doug
s/v CAllista

Perhaps true but if your charger keeps coming out of float and into
absorption when a load onboard starts up your AGMs or gels are going to be
quickly destroyed. You can't put electrolyte back into an AGM or gel that
has been over charged. Flooded batteriers (with HydroCaps) may simply need
a little water now and then. No I don't use the HydroCaps personally as my
boat is a Laser II. ;-) I do most of my sailing as crew on friend's big
boats (or borrow theirs).
--
Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
Cape Breton Island, Canada
kenheaton AT ess wye dee DOT eastlink DOT ca

Len wrote in message ...
Op Thu, 6 May 2004 07:19:34 -0300, schreef "Ken Heaton"
:


Anyone familiar with such problems that (maybe) arise from using the
charger as a power supply during float-charging?


I suspect that your charger sees a lower battery voltage when you are
using
it as a power supply. As a result it comes out of float and goes back
to
either bulk or absorption voltage levels, boiling the electrolyte out
of
your "maintenance free" batteries. Many maintenance free batteries
actually
have caps that can be removed by careful prying, they come off in
groups
of
three. Check yours and see if your electrolyte level is way low.
Adding
some distilled water to refill and then charging will get some capacity
back. Next time buy flooded batteries and "Hydrocaps" for them.
http://www.solar-electric.com/hydrocaps.html

Everyone , thanks for your replies.
Ken, I think you hit it spot on.
Do you use the hydrocaps yourself ? Seems like the ultimate solution.

Thanks again, Len.

Hmmmm. After about 5 years of continuous use, I haven't had
any problems as described in this thread. Perhaps my charging
system is a bit smarter so it doesn't overcharge the batteries.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Ken Heaton" wrote in message
...
Comments below:

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I think that a liquid lead-acid battery plus hydrocaps may be
about the same cost as a gel or AGM.

Doug
s/v CAllista

Perhaps true but if your charger keeps coming out of float and into
absorption when a load onboard starts up your AGMs or gels are going to be
quickly destroyed. You can't put electrolyte back into an AGM or gel that
has been over charged. Flooded batteriers (with HydroCaps) may simply
need
a little water now and then. No I don't use the HydroCaps personally as
my
boat is a Laser II. ;-) I do most of my sailing as crew on friend's big
boats (or borrow theirs).
--
Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
Cape Breton Island, Canada
kenheaton AT ess wye dee DOT eastlink DOT ca

Len wrote in message
...
Op Thu, 6 May 2004 07:19:34 -0300, schreef "Ken Heaton"
:


Anyone familiar with such problems that (maybe) arise from using
the
charger as a power supply during float-charging?


I suspect that your charger sees a lower battery voltage when you are
using
it as a power supply. As a result it comes out of float and goes
back
to
either bulk or absorption voltage levels, boiling the electrolyte out
of
your "maintenance free" batteries. Many maintenance free batteries
actually
have caps that can be removed by careful prying, they come off in
groups
of
three. Check yours and see if your electrolyte level is way low.
Adding
some distilled water to refill and then charging will get some
capacity
back. Next time buy flooded batteries and "Hydrocaps" for them.
http://www.solar-electric.com/hydrocaps.html

Everyone , thanks for your replies.
Ken, I think you hit it spot on.
Do you use the hydrocaps yourself ? Seems like the ultimate solution.

Thanks again, Len.

Len wrote in message ...
I experience a very short battery-life and I want to know the cause
before I install anything new.

How short?


The fridge / freezer and other consumers constantly draw power
(between 4 and 11 amp)

sounds familiar.....

I have a 3-stage 120 amp charger (bulk at 14,4,absorption at 13,6 and
float at 13,0)

good.

My batteries are 18 months old. 6 x 180 Ah.

I am not familiar with a battery that is 180 amp-hours. What make/model are
these?

Is this six 12 volt batteries all in parallel?
Three sets of two 6 volt batteries?
six individual 2 volt cells?

They were called "Maintenance-free". As I understand now that means you
can't add
destilled water later on, don't see any advantage of that.

Yep. My translation of "Maintenance Free" is "Can't Maintain".

If you keep the charge and discharge rates low then the maintenance free
batteries work. They work just fine in your car. Where they typically
don't work is in a deep cycle application where the charge rates can be very
high.

On many of the maintenance free batteries you can gain access to the cells
but you have to work at it a little harder. They have a battery cap, it is
just a little harder to get off. Other batteries the caps were put on in
such a way that you will not be able to get them off without really messing
it up.


Anyone familiar with such problems that (maybe) arise from using the
charger as a power supply during float-charging?

The type of charger you have is about the best you can get.

I suspect that you are in a different country than I am (I am in the USA) so
your choice of batteries might be a bit different. Here in the USA, the
most common use for deep cycle batteries are in Golf Carts. The standard
golf cart battery is easy to come by and fairly cheap, in fact they are
commonly found for less than an equivilant automotive battery. And they are
rugged: if you keep water in them they will last 5 years or more.

My advice is to dump the "maintenance free" batteries and go with the good
old "golf cart" batteries. In the USA, these are 6 volt batteries that are
in a case style that is referred to as T-105 or 2200. They are 10-3/8" long
by 7-1/8" wide by 10-7/8" tall, compared to the 27 series which is 12-3/4"
long by 6-3/4" wide by 9-3/4" tall. Connect two of these in series to get
12 volts. Connect as many of these sets in parallel as you need to get the
desired amp-hour capacity. One set of these batteries will provide you with
about 225 amp-hours each.

Good luck
Rod McInnis

What kind of batteries are these? I'm not sure I have
even seen a "Maintenance Free" deep cycle battery other
than gels or AGM. Maintenace Free batteries are usually
starved electrolyte type and are for starting applications.

Doug
s/v Callista

Len wrote in message ...
I experience a very short battery-life and I want to know the cause
before I install anything new.
The fridge / freezer and other consumers constantly draw power
(between 4 and 11 amp)
I have a 3-stage 120 amp charger (bulk at 14,4,absorption at 13,6 and
float at 13,0)
My batteries are 18 months old. 6 x 180 Ah. They were called
"Maintenance-free". As I understand now that means you can't add
destilled water later on, don't see any advantage of that.
At present my battery-capacity is very low. As I look at it now I'm
confronted with replacing my batteries after 18 months.


Anyone familiar with such problems that (maybe) arise from using the
charger as a power supply during float-charging?

Do I bourdon my batteries by creating a lot of small
discarge/charge-cycles?

Any advice is welcomed for this (surely not unique?) liveaboard-
stuation with 220AC shore-power and use of 12-v appliances.

Thanks in advance, Len.