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Headliners
Geoff,
I assume you have what was on our old catamaran, open cell foam backed vinyl. It was just glued to the fiberglass, and heat plus age caused it to break down to dust, and fall off. This began when the boat was 7 or 8 years old, starting first in the main cabin where it got the hottest. Re-gluing wouldn't work. About 12 years ago I replaced it with a solid vinyl headliner material that I bought from Defender Industries. IIRC, it was 1/10 inch thick and hid irregularities, but I don't see it in the 2008 catalog. I got a lot (still have some on the roll), so it was drop shipped from a distributor in Seattle I think, by the name of Haughton Marine or something like that. I thought it looked quite good, and expected it to last much longer than the original, so if you could find it, I would recommend it. Whatever you end up with, if you use glue, try to get 3M water base contact cement from an auto parts store. Solvent based contact cement dissolves vinyl. Water based costs about 2 1/2 times as much, but goes twice as far, and doesn't kill you with the fumes. I'll check my records tomorrow to see if I have any more info on the material. I also have some old samples of headliner material I got from Sailrite. Might check with them. "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of politics, global warming or general name calling... My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season. The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access. So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that? -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Headliners
Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of
politics, global warming or general name calling... My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season. The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access. So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that? -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Headliners
On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:02:58 -0600, Geoff Schultz
wrote: Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of politics, global warming or general name calling... My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season. The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access. So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that? -- Geoff The purpose of the foam backing is to give some body to the vinyl and make it smoother appearing. If your head liner is like mine you have 1/8th inch ply in strips across the width of the cabin top, held in with battens. If you try to apply just vinyl to the ply panels and then bend them into place I think that the vinyl will get all wrinkled and sag. The foam does give it some body so it can tighten in some places and loosen on others without sagging. At least I think that is how it works. In any event, the foam always deteriorates. You might try to use just vinyl by using a spray glue to attach the vinyl to the plywood but I think I'd make a trial panel first -- there must be a reason for all the foam backed vinyl that is applied to boats. I have seen outdoor carpet applied particularly in the passageway to aft cabins. You might have a look at some carpet samples. In any event do let us know what you did and how it worked as you aren't the only boat with deteriorating vinyl head liners. By the way, some of these OB (only boats) topics are quite refreshing.... Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom) |
Headliners
Geoff,
Have you thought of using a fiberglass panel instead of vinyl covered plywood? I am thinking of redoing my headliner also and mine is the same as yours. Check this: http://www.cranecomposites.com/transportation/LTR.asp Ansley Sawyer SV Pacem |
Headliners
Geoff,
I went back on that website and found a product that may be better than the one I put in the last post. http://www.cranecomposites.com/Build...s/glasbord.asp They make a number of fiberglass panels. Check out their whole site. Ansley Sawyer SV Pacem |
Headliners
"Ansley W. Sawyer" wrote in
: Geoff, I went back on that website and found a product that may be better than the one I put in the last post. http://www.cranecomposites.com/Build...s/glasbord.asp They make a number of fiberglass panels. Check out their whole site. Ansley Sawyer SV Pacem I really don't want a hard panel due to noise. I've found that boats which have fiberglass or wood ceilings tend to be much noisier than those with a fabric/vinyl ceiling. However, thanks for the info! -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Headliners
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
: On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:02:58 -0600, Geoff Schultz wrote: Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of politics, global warming or general name calling... My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season. The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access. So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that? -- Geoff The purpose of the foam backing is to give some body to the vinyl and make it smoother appearing. If your head liner is like mine you have 1/8th inch ply in strips across the width of the cabin top, held in with battens. If you try to apply just vinyl to the ply panels and then bend them into place I think that the vinyl will get all wrinkled and sag. The foam does give it some body so it can tighten in some places and loosen on others without sagging. At least I think that is how it works. In any event, the foam always deteriorates. You might try to use just vinyl by using a spray glue to attach the vinyl to the plywood but I think I'd make a trial panel first -- there must be a reason for all the foam backed vinyl that is applied to boats. [clip] Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom) The arch on the panels is probably no more than 1-2 inches as shown in the same picture that I used to describe my porthole problem: http://www.geoffschultz.org/temp/20081031_155154.jpg The panels stretch from side to side and I was planning on using a spray adhesive to attach the vinyl to the panel. I had assumed that the foam wsa there to smooth out any defects in the panel and give it a better appearance. I just don't want to need to repeat this in 7-10 years... -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Headliners
"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . wrote in : On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:02:58 -0600, Geoff Schultz wrote: Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of politics, global warming or general name calling... My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season. The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access. So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that? -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org Use better foam that doesn't deteriorate. It exists. My experience with foam is that it all deteriorates, some just faster than others. I'm not a foam expert. How does one judge the longevity of foam? -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org You might be better using thin polystyrene instead of foam, although this would be twice the work. You would have to stick the polystyrene to the plywood then the vynil to the polystyrene. The amount they use in packaging these days it's gotta be cheap! Dennis. |
Headliners
On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:02:58 -0600, someone posting as Geoff Schultz
purportedly wrote: Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of politics, global warming or general name calling... Damn you! Damn you and the independent thinking you stand for! -- poking dumbasses in the forehead, till my finger hurts. |
Headliners
On 2008-11-06 09:02:58 -0500, Geoff Schultz said:
Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that? Watch spray glues as most have a "life" as well. Some that are just fine for automotive restoration will fail in a few years' exposure to the marine environment. Gluing directly to a fixed surface will be very difficult to get right. Inevitably, there will be some wrinkles at first, more later. Brainstorming, I'm flashing on the older materials used to back liners and upholstery. Something with "give" that will give a smooth finish, but won't so quickly break down. Some sort of felt comes to mind, but I'm sure there are modern equivalents I'm not aware of. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Headliners
On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:00:00 -0600, Geoff Schultz
wrote: wrote in : On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:02:58 -0600, Geoff Schultz wrote: Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of politics, global warming or general name calling... My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season. The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access. So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that? -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org Use better foam that doesn't deteriorate. It exists. My experience with foam is that it all deteriorates, some just faster than others. I'm not a foam expert. How does one judge the longevity of foam? -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org The foam/vinyl I was referring to, and I think is the type normally used in boats, is an auto product. I can buy it at any shop supplying auto upholstery work. The foam is part of a vinyl/foam sandwich and is bonded together in some manner. Probably using separate foam and vinyl layers is going to cause significant problems in installing. for some reason your 7 - 10 year life sounds small. The headliner in my boat is certainly older then ten years as I have owned the boat for that long and have not replaced the vinyl/foam material. In fact I replaced a small section in the head where a ventilator had leaked and reused the old material to cover the new ply panel as the old material was still in good condition. Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom) |
Headliners
On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:17:27 -0500, "Garland Gray"
wrote: Geoff, I assume you have what was on our old catamaran, open cell foam backed vinyl. It was just glued to the fiberglass, and heat plus age caused it to break down to dust, and fall off. This began when the boat was 7 or 8 years old, starting first in the main cabin where it got the hottest. Re-gluing wouldn't work. About 12 years ago I replaced it with a solid vinyl headliner material that I bought from Defender Industries. IIRC, it was 1/10 inch thick and hid irregularities, but I don't see it in the 2008 catalog. I got a lot (still have some on the roll), so it was drop shipped from a distributor in Seattle I think, by the name of Haughton Marine or something like that. I thought it looked quite good, and expected it to last much longer than the original, so if you could find it, I would recommend it. Whatever you end up with, if you use glue, try to get 3M water base contact cement from an auto parts store. Solvent based contact cement dissolves vinyl. Water based costs about 2 1/2 times as much, but goes twice as far, and doesn't kill you with the fumes. I'll check my records tomorrow to see if I have any more info on the material. I also have some old samples of headliner material I got from Sailrite. Might check with them. Call Defender if this sounds like something that will work for you, Geoff. They are very good at getting just about anything you can describe to them. Since they used to carry it, they may still, or know where to get it. They have a lot of stuff that is not on the website. |
Headliners
On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:17:27 -0500, "Garland Gray"
wrote: Geoff, I assume you have what was on our old catamaran, open cell foam backed vinyl. It was just glued to the fiberglass, and heat plus age caused it to break down to dust, and fall off. This began when the boat was 7 or 8 years old, starting first in the main cabin where it got the hottest. Re-gluing wouldn't work. About 12 years ago I replaced it with a solid vinyl headliner material that I bought from Defender Industries. IIRC, it was 1/10 inch thick and hid irregularities, but I don't see it in the 2008 catalog. I got a lot (still have some on the roll), so it was drop shipped from a distributor in Seattle I think, by the name of Haughton Marine or something like that. I thought it looked quite good, and expected it to last much longer than the original, so if you could find it, I would recommend it. Whatever you end up with, if you use glue, try to get 3M water base contact cement from an auto parts store. Solvent based contact cement dissolves vinyl. Water based costs about 2 1/2 times as much, but goes twice as far, and doesn't kill you with the fumes. I'll check my records tomorrow to see if I have any more info on the material. I also have some old samples of headliner material I got from Sailrite. Might check with them. If you can find some details I'd be quite interested as I am refurbishing a power boat and there are two cabins where the overhead is smooth enough to glue some sort of liner directly to the existing surface. I had been thinking of formica but that certainly will look a bit plasticy. If there is something better I would prefer to try it. Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom) |
Headliners
On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:58:07 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote: If you can find some details I'd be quite interested as I am refurbishing a power boat and there are two cabins where the overhead is smooth enough to glue some sort of liner directly to the existing surface. I had been thinking of formica but that certainly will look a bit plasticy. If there is something better I would prefer to try it. http://tinyurl.com/56ye8y |
Headliners
Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:58:07 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok wrote: If you can find some details I'd be quite interested as I am refurbishing a power boat and there are two cabins where the overhead is smooth enough to glue some sort of liner directly to the existing surface. I had been thinking of formica but that certainly will look a bit plasticy. If there is something better I would prefer to try it. http://tinyurl.com/56ye8y Along the lines of the Soundown shown in the above url I was thinking of a foam used in packaging. It is called Ethafoam, it is white or light blue, resilient, closed cell, and can be gotten in various thicknesses. Actually there are many foam types that might work well in this application. They would certainly be much better than the old open cell foam of old. - Here is a link for Ethafoam but there are many around: http://metrofoam.com.au/ethafoam-220.html - This one is slightly rigid but there should be no problem bending it to comply to the slight curvatures or the cabin contour: http://www.modernplastics.com/may05/wdfoam.html - This is a link for EVA foam. Pretty good stuff too: http://metrofoam.com.au/eva-foam.html - Blurb on open-cell vs closed-cell foams: http://www.foam-tech.com/products/ur...losed_cell.htm - Here a site with various foams: http://www.closedcellfoams.com/ |
Headliners
On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:27:51 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:58:07 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok wrote: If you can find some details I'd be quite interested as I am refurbishing a power boat and there are two cabins where the overhead is smooth enough to glue some sort of liner directly to the existing surface. I had been thinking of formica but that certainly will look a bit plasticy. If there is something better I would prefer to try it. http://tinyurl.com/56ye8y Thanks. Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom) |
Headliners
"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of politics, global warming or general name calling... My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season. The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access. So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that? I hate to say it but anybody who buys a boat with the type of headliner you have deserves the problems you have. Vinyl headliners are indicative of low-end, entry level boats. There NEVER has been one put in that lasts more than a dozen years or so, if that. They are lubberly and gross. The solution to your problem is to do it right like the factory should have done it right in the first place. Get rid of it. Rip it all out and replace it with GRP and gel-coat. Until and unless you get serious about installing a real overhead you will still be sailing a boat built like a car- to last about ten years. Unacceptable. Let this be a lesson to anybody looking to buy a boat. Just say no to vinyl or any other sort of "cover up" overhead liner. Wilbur Hubbard |
Headliners
"Garland Gray" wrote in
: Geoff, I assume you have what was on our old catamaran, open cell foam backed vinyl. It was just glued to the fiberglass, and heat plus age caused it to break down to dust, and fall off. This began when the boat was 7 or 8 years old, starting first in the main cabin where it got the hottest. Re-gluing wouldn't work. About 12 years ago I replaced it with a solid vinyl headliner material that I bought from Defender Industries. IIRC, it was 1/10 inch thick and hid irregularities, but I don't see it in the 2008 catalog. I got a lot (still have some on the roll), so it was drop shipped from a distributor in Seattle I think, by the name of Haughton Marine or something like that. I thought it looked quite good, and expected it to last much longer than the original, so if you could find it, I would recommend it. Whatever you end up with, if you use glue, try to get 3M water base contact cement from an auto parts store. Solvent based contact cement dissolves vinyl. Water based costs about 2 1/2 times as much, but goes twice as far, and doesn't kill you with the fumes. I'll check my records tomorrow to see if I have any more info on the material. I also have some old samples of headliner material I got from Sailrite. Might check with them. "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of politics, global warming or general name calling... My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season. The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access. So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that? -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org Thanks for the suggestions. I've been doing more research and right now I'm leaning towards using NaugaSoft, which has a fabric based backing material which shouldn't deteriorate. http://www.naugahyde.com/productline.asp?id=17 -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Headliners
On 7 Nov 2008 09:46:07 -0600, Dave wrote:
A great web site to read for fun. I still have one of the original Naugas from around 1980 when Naugahyde was made by Uniroyal. (In, of course, Naugatuck.) Was PETA aware of this wanton slaughter of Naugas going on in Connecticut? I'm surprised they didn't have picket lines up and down the NE corridor. |
Headliners
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:13:31 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: Let this be a lesson to anybody looking to buy a boat. Just say no to vinyl or any other sort of "cover up" overhead liner. Except for the rack, rope and sails, a boat should be hard. And easy to clean. A hard overhead is noisy, but popcorn paint can alleviate that. Why haven't you mentioned popcorn paint? I thought you were a sailor! --Vic |
Headliners
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:13:31 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Let this be a lesson to anybody looking to buy a boat. Just say no to vinyl or any other sort of "cover up" overhead liner. Except for the rack, rope and sails, a boat should be hard. And easy to clean. A hard overhead is noisy, but popcorn paint can alleviate that. Why haven't you mentioned popcorn paint? I thought you were a sailor! --Vic It's good to see somebody else who knows what a boat is supposed to be built like. "Hard" is a good way to put it. I don't think popcorn paint or any rough surface is compatible with the deckhead of a sailboat. The overhead needs to be smooth, glossy and easy to clean with fresh water and a little bleach to keep mold and mildew from forming. Noise is not a problem provided the deck itself is cored with balsa or plywood, Kledgecell etc. The primary considerations for any seaman's yacht interior finish is that it last the life of the yacht, remain easy to clean and maintain and remain bright and attractive. What little wood is in evidence should be kept well varnished for the same reasons. But primarily the interior surfaces should be GRP with a glossy gel coat finish. Trim can be wood and perhaps one or two of the bulkheads. The overhead (deckhead) should never be finished with that cheap, unsightly vinyl held in place with battens. It's unacceptable to any real sailor. Totally untenable! Wilbur Hubbard |
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Any real sailor would throw your paint and shiny **** out the hatch. lime, oil and wax the bloody wood and be done with it. its cleanable easy on the eyes and cheap. and it takes about 30 min to apply. its not going to choke you out with fumes nore make your eyes water. if you dont have to have the filtered bees wax it will cost about 5 dollers to make up enough to coat your cabin. |
Headliners
"Two meter troll" wrote in message ... Any real sailor would throw your paint and shiny **** out the hatch. lime, oil and wax the bloody wood and be done with it. its cleanable easy on the eyes and cheap. and it takes about 30 min to apply. its not going to choke you out with fumes nore make your eyes water. if you dont have to have the filtered bees wax it will cost about 5 dollers to make up enough to coat your cabin. Oh, please! Why make a virtue out of being a cheapskate? But, the old, tried and true methods, if they please you and don't involve extra hours of maintenance, are nothing to sneeze at provided you're on a budget. And it sounds like you have a wooden boat. Wood is more comfortable than GRP any day. But the endless hours of maintenance are prohibitive. For those of us who wish to sail more than we work, GRP is the only way to go. Wilbur Hubbard |
Headliners
I found that the distributor was Hough Marine and Machine Co in Seattle, but
it appears they are into other ventures now. What material i have left is still on the original roll from the factory. Looks like it came from France, perhaps from a company by the name of Sommer, Avenue Leon Charpentier, 05200 Sedan. I Googled all that, but not speaking French, and not much help in the translations, I gave up. But there were some hits I couldn't make anything of. Couldn't find my Sailrite samples. "Garland Gray" wrote in message ... Geoff, I assume you have what was on our old catamaran, open cell foam backed vinyl. It was just glued to the fiberglass, and heat plus age caused it to break down to dust, and fall off. This began when the boat was 7 or 8 years old, starting first in the main cabin where it got the hottest. Re-gluing wouldn't work. About 12 years ago I replaced it with a solid vinyl headliner material that I bought from Defender Industries. IIRC, it was 1/10 inch thick and hid irregularities, but I don't see it in the 2008 catalog. I got a lot (still have some on the roll), so it was drop shipped from a distributor in Seattle I think, by the name of Haughton Marine or something like that. I thought it looked quite good, and expected it to last much longer than the original, so if you could find it, I would recommend it. Whatever you end up with, if you use glue, try to get 3M water base contact cement from an auto parts store. Solvent based contact cement dissolves vinyl. Water based costs about 2 1/2 times as much, but goes twice as far, and doesn't kill you with the fumes. I'll check my records tomorrow to see if I have any more info on the material. I also have some old samples of headliner material I got from Sailrite. Might check with them. "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats instead of politics, global warming or general name calling... My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season. The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access. So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that? -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Headliners
On 2008-11-07 18:03:16 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said: I don't think popcorn paint or any rough surface is compatible with the deckhead of a sailboat. The overhead needs to be smooth, glossy and easy to clean with fresh water and a little bleach to keep mold and mildew from forming. Noise is not a problem provided the deck itself is cored with balsa or plywood, Kledgecell etc. The primary considerations for any seaman's yacht interior finish is that it last the life of the yacht, remain easy to clean and maintain and remain bright and attractive. What little wood is in evidence should be kept well varnished for the same reasons. But primarily the interior surfaces should be GRP with a glossy gel coat finish. Trim can be wood and perhaps one or two of the bulkheads. The overhead (deckhead) should never be finished with that cheap, unsightly vinyl held in place with battens. It's unacceptable to any real sailor. Totally untenable! I actually agree with most of this! But you'd love Xan's interior, except that we've many wood accents that keep it looking less like a Chlorox bottle. Minor points: I like a Xan's slight texture over a glossy surface, but that's a personal thing. We can keep it clean as easily as the edges which are smooth, but the inevitable not-smooth areas would bug the living daylights out of me (was a lacquer sprayer in a past life -- sight down every flat surface to spot imperfections). Another thing. You don't mention it, but the Practical Sailor review of the Navy 44s does: All our through-bolt nuts are visible, not hidden. No, it's not as purty, but if one of them starts leaking, I'll see immediately. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Headliners
On 2008-11-07 18:38:37 -0500, Two meter troll said:
Any real sailor would throw your paint and shiny **** out the hatch. lime, oil and wax the bloody wood and be done with it. its cleanable easy on the eyes and cheap. and it takes about 30 min to apply. its not going to choke you out with fumes nore make your eyes water. if you dont have to have the filtered bees wax it will cost about 5 dollers to make up enough to coat your cabin. Uggh! Used to do oil and wax finishes on furniture that lasted decades (have examples next to me 30 years old), but after trying it on Xan, I stripped everything and varnished. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Headliners
On 2008-11-07 18:53:32 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said: Wood is more comfortable than GRP any day. But the endless hours of maintenance are prohibitive. For those of us who wish to sail more than we work, GRP is the only way to go. Okay, that's twice I've agreed with you in as many minutes. WHO are you and what have you done with Wilbur? -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Headliners
Geoff,
Back in 2000, I replaced my vinyl backed headliner with a product called Heat Shield, It was an insulation liner with a vinyl finish material placed over it. It looked like bubble wrap and it did a good job of keeping our cabin cool with an additional reflective shield. I'm not sure they are still in business, but you can goggle for them. I dealt with people from a boat show that represented them, Hotwire Enterprises in Madiera Beach Florida. Their phone was 727-217-9809. The material was held to the hull with strong double sided adhesive foam strips. Over time, some of them have loosened, so adding supportive molding would be a good idea. Sherwin |
Headliners
sherwin dubren wrote in news:gfbe16$hss$1
@registered.motzarella.org: Geoff, Back in 2000, I replaced my vinyl backed headliner with a product called Heat Shield, It was an insulation liner with a vinyl finish material placed over it. It looked like bubble wrap and it did a good job of keeping our cabin cool with an additional reflective shield. I'm not sure they are still in business, but you can goggle for them. I dealt with people from a boat show that represented them, Hotwire Enterprises in Madiera Beach Florida. Their phone was 727-217-9809. The material was held to the hull with strong double sided adhesive foam strips. Over time, some of them have loosened, so adding supportive molding would be a good idea. Sherwin Sherwin, Thanks for the pointer. I've looked at this also, but am worried about the additional thickness. I'm planning on re-using the existing 1/8" panels after I sand the old foam/adhesive off of it. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
Headliners
On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 05:47:44 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:
All our through-bolt nuts are visible, not hidden. My old Cal-34 was like that. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
Headliners
On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 05:53:42 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:
Wood is more comfortable than GRP any day. But the endless hours of maintenance are prohibitive. For those of us who wish to sail more than we work, GRP is the only way to go. Okay, that's twice I've agreed with you in as many minutes. WHO are you and what have you done with Wilbur? Eeeeioow! *I* saw something sensible over that by-line too yesterday. What's going on? Brian W |
Headliners
Maybe they adjusted his meds.
-- Roger Long |
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