Any real sailor would throw your paint and shiny **** out the hatch.
lime, oil and wax the bloody wood and be done with it. its cleanable
easy on the eyes and cheap. and it takes about 30 min to apply. its
not going to choke you out with fumes nore make your eyes water. if
you dont have to have the filtered bees wax it will cost about 5
dollers to make up enough to coat your cabin.

"Two meter troll" wrote in message
...


Any real sailor would throw your paint and shiny **** out the hatch.
lime, oil and wax the bloody wood and be done with it. its cleanable
easy on the eyes and cheap. and it takes about 30 min to apply. its
not going to choke you out with fumes nore make your eyes water. if
you dont have to have the filtered bees wax it will cost about 5
dollers to make up enough to coat your cabin.

Oh, please! Why make a virtue out of being a cheapskate? But, the old, tried
and true methods, if they please you and don't involve extra hours of
maintenance, are nothing to sneeze at provided you're on a budget. And it
sounds like you have a wooden boat. Wood is more comfortable than GRP any
day. But the endless hours of maintenance are prohibitive. For those of us
who wish to sail more than we work, GRP is the only way to go.

Wilbur Hubbard

On 2008-11-07 18:38:37 -0500, Two meter troll said:

Any real sailor would throw your paint and shiny **** out the hatch.
lime, oil and wax the bloody wood and be done with it. its cleanable
easy on the eyes and cheap. and it takes about 30 min to apply. its
not going to choke you out with fumes nore make your eyes water. if
you dont have to have the filtered bees wax it will cost about 5
dollers to make up enough to coat your cabin.

Uggh!

Used to do oil and wax finishes on furniture that lasted decades (have
examples next to me 30 years old), but after trying it on Xan, I
stripped everything and varnished.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-11-07 18:03:16 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

I don't think popcorn paint or any rough surface is compatible with the
deckhead of a sailboat. The overhead needs to be smooth, glossy and easy to
clean with fresh water and a little bleach to keep mold and mildew from
forming. Noise is not a problem provided the deck itself is cored with balsa
or plywood, Kledgecell etc.

The primary considerations for any seaman's yacht interior finish is that it
last the life of the yacht, remain easy to clean and maintain and remain
bright and attractive. What little wood is in evidence should be kept well
varnished for the same reasons. But primarily the interior surfaces should
be GRP with a glossy gel coat finish. Trim can be wood and perhaps one or
two of the bulkheads. The overhead (deckhead) should never be finished with
that cheap, unsightly vinyl held in place with battens. It's unacceptable to
any real sailor. Totally untenable!

I actually agree with most of this! But you'd love Xan's interior,
except that we've many wood accents that keep it looking less like a
Chlorox bottle.

Minor points: I like a Xan's slight texture over a glossy surface, but
that's a personal thing. We can keep it clean as easily as the edges
which are smooth, but the inevitable not-smooth areas would bug the
living daylights out of me (was a lacquer sprayer in a past life --
sight down every flat surface to spot imperfections).

Another thing. You don't mention it, but the Practical Sailor review of
the Navy 44s does: All our through-bolt nuts are visible, not hidden.
No, it's not as purty, but if one of them starts leaking, I'll see
immediately.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 05:47:44 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

All our through-bolt nuts are visible, not hidden.

My old Cal-34 was like that. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Geoff,

Back in 2000, I replaced my vinyl backed headliner with a product
called Heat Shield, It was an insulation liner with a vinyl finish
material placed over it. It looked like bubble wrap and it did a
good job of keeping our cabin cool with an additional reflective
shield. I'm not sure they are still in business, but you can
goggle for them. I dealt with people from a boat show that
represented them, Hotwire Enterprises in Madiera Beach Florida.
Their phone was 727-217-9809. The material was held to the hull
with strong double sided adhesive foam strips. Over time, some of
them have loosened, so adding supportive molding would be a good
idea.

Sherwin

sherwin dubren wrote in news:gfbe16$hss$1
@registered.motzarella.org:

Geoff,

Back in 2000, I replaced my vinyl backed headliner with a product
called Heat Shield, It was an insulation liner with a vinyl finish
material placed over it. It looked like bubble wrap and it did a
good job of keeping our cabin cool with an additional reflective
shield. I'm not sure they are still in business, but you can
goggle for them. I dealt with people from a boat show that
represented them, Hotwire Enterprises in Madiera Beach Florida.
Their phone was 727-217-9809. The material was held to the hull
with strong double sided adhesive foam strips. Over time, some of
them have loosened, so adding supportive molding would be a good
idea.

Sherwin

Sherwin,

Thanks for the pointer. I've looked at this also, but am worried about the
additional thickness. I'm planning on re-using the existing 1/8" panels
after I sand the old foam/adhesive off of it.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

wrote in :

On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:02:58 -0600, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats
instead of politics, global warming or general name calling...

My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam
backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides
of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season.

The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by
tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only
about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the
existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do
want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current
product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed
and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small
spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would
take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access.

So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the
vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which
isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can
apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the
plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org


Use better foam that doesn't deteriorate. It exists.

My experience with foam is that it all deteriorates, some just faster than
others. I'm not a foam expert. How does one judge the longevity of foam?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
wrote in :

On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:02:58 -0600, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats
instead of politics, global warming or general name calling...

My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam
backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides
of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season.

The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by
tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only
about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the
existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do
want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current
product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed
and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small
spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would
take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access.

So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the
vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which
isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can
apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the
plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org


Use better foam that doesn't deteriorate. It exists.

My experience with foam is that it all deteriorates, some just faster than
others. I'm not a foam expert. How does one judge the longevity of foam?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

You might be better using thin polystyrene instead of foam, although this
would be twice the work. You would have to stick the polystyrene to the
plywood then the vynil to the polystyrene. The amount they use in packaging
these days it's gotta be cheap!


Dennis.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:00:00 -0600, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

wrote in :

On Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:02:58 -0600, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

Sorry, but I'm posting another on-topic question regarding boats
instead of politics, global warming or general name calling...

My vinyl headliner is sagging in some locations due to the foam
backing deteriorating. Obviously this has been one of the down sides
of storing the boat in the Caribbean during hurricane season.

The headliner was glued on to 1/8" plywood which is held in place by
tension or mouldings. The problem started when the boat was only
about 8 years old, so as a result I'm very leery of replacing the
existing headliner with another foam backed vinyl product, but I do
want to utilize a product that has the same look as the current
product. There were some locations where the headliner was installed
and then cabinets were built in-place under them. Due to the small
spans in these locations, the headliner is in good shape and it would
take a huge effort to remove the cabinets and gain access.

So, my basic question is: What is the purpose of the foam on the
vinyl material? Based upon research that we've done so far (which
isn't extensive), the vinyl comes uncoated and the distributor can
apply foam to it before shipping. Can I apply it directly to the
plywood and if so, what are the downsides of doing that?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org


Use better foam that doesn't deteriorate. It exists.

My experience with foam is that it all deteriorates, some just faster than
others. I'm not a foam expert. How does one judge the longevity of foam?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org


The foam/vinyl I was referring to, and I think is the type normally
used in boats, is an auto product. I can buy it at any shop supplying
auto upholstery work. The foam is part of a vinyl/foam sandwich and is
bonded together in some manner. Probably using separate foam and vinyl
layers is going to cause significant problems in installing.

for some reason your 7 - 10 year life sounds small. The headliner in
my boat is certainly older then ten years as I have owned the boat for
that long and have not replaced the vinyl/foam material. In fact I
replaced a small section in the head where a ventilator had leaked and
reused the old material to cover the new ply panel as the old
material was still in good condition.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)