Yacht insurance
 

I am about to purchase a used sailboat (40+ feet). I would like some advice
on insurance companies. Care to share your experiences with any particular
company?

Any enlightenment will be appreciated.

TIA

Vic

--
__________________________________________________ ______

Victor Fraenckel - The Windman
victorf ATSIGN windreader DOTcom
KC2GUI

Home of the WindReader Electronic Theodolite
Read the WIND

"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long
and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival."
- Winston [Leonard Spencer] Churchill (1874 - 1965)

Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?
-Count Oxenstierna (ca 1620) to the young King Gustavus Adolphus

Yacht insurance
 

Hayden Yacht insurance, without a question the best I've EVER dealt with.
Talk to Chip Bishop at (800) 723-1170 and tell him Capt. Turner sent you.


"Vic Fraenckel" wrote in message
.. .
I am about to purchase a used sailboat (40+ feet). I would like some
advice
on insurance companies. Care to share your experiences with any particular
company?

Any enlightenment will be appreciated.

TIA

Vic

--
__________________________________________________ ______

Victor Fraenckel - The Windman
victorf ATSIGN windreader DOTcom
KC2GUI

Home of the WindReader Electronic Theodolite
Read the WIND

"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however
long
and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival."
- Winston [Leonard Spencer] Churchill (1874 - 1965)

Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?
-Count Oxenstierna (ca 1620) to the young King Gustavus Adolphus

Yacht insurance
 

You didn't say where you are. In the US, Boat US is the cheapest I've
found. 52' sloop, $230K hull value for a little over $900 a year. Set
the deductible as high as they'll let you, unless you're planning to
use it. Buy the boat, car and house insurance at the same place for
multiple discounts. I don't think the auto club does 40' but they
might - I know they didn't do 52' or I'd be there.

Make sure your purchase survey is acceptable to your insurance co -
out of the water, known surveyor, etc - otherwise you'll need a second
survey.

Most US marine insurance brokers are a pain in the ass. Blue Water and
Hayden are 2 of the worst.




On Tue, 04 May 2004 01:26:26 GMT, "Vic Fraenckel"
wrote:

I am about to purchase a used sailboat (40+ feet). I would like some advice
on insurance companies. Care to share your experiences with any particular
company?

Any enlightenment will be appreciated.

TIA

Vic

Yacht insurance
 

We've got NMU based out of Annapolis. Whitched to them
last summer when our existing insurance almost doubled.
Coverage is a bit better and premiums are cheaper.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 May 2004 08:18:47 -0700, santacruz said:

Boat US is the cheapest I've
found

Based on what I've heard, there's a reason for that. Great when you pay
the
premium, but hell if you have to make a claim. Our surveyor tells me he
had
to sue them twice to get them to pay up.

Yacht insurance
 

Al Golden of IMIS is an independent agent as well as a boater and can
probably find a policy to your liking. I have mine through him and have been
very happy. One claim for grounding paid with no problem. The policy is
through Markel. You can contact Al at:
http://www.imiscorp.net/

--


Keith
__
"A man without a woman is like a fish without a bicycle." - U2
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
We've got NMU based out of Annapolis. Whitched to them
last summer when our existing insurance almost doubled.
Coverage is a bit better and premiums are cheaper.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 May 2004 08:18:47 -0700, santacruz said:

Boat US is the cheapest I've
found

Based on what I've heard, there's a reason for that. Great when you pay
the
premium, but hell if you have to make a claim. Our surveyor tells me he
had
to sue them twice to get them to pay up.

Yacht insurance
 

In article ,
Dave wrote:

On Tue, 04 May 2004 08:18:47 -0700, santacruz said:

Boat US is the cheapest I've
found

Based on what I've heard, there's a reason for that. Great when you pay the
premium, but hell if you have to make a claim. Our surveyor tells me he had
to sue them twice to get them to pay up.

I have found the opposite. We have had two claims against BOAT/U.S.
policies (one ours, one the other guy's) and both were handled more
professionally than the few claims I've had with my automobile policies.

They weren't the cheapest, but were more liberal than I would have been
in the same situations. My claim against my policy was clearly my own
damned fault (leaving a dockline dangle in the water as we powered up)
and should have been rejected, but they essentially said "stuff happens"
and paid the bills that I thought were inflated.

When Isabele smacked the Chesapeake (thankfully a non-event for us due
to our dockmates' actions), many BOAT/US owners already had been handled
while their neighbors were still trying to reach their insurance
companies.

Primary question I asked my yachting home and auto insurance rep: "If a
gate valve (clearly inappropriate now) through-hull breaks, does the
insurance company cover any subsequent damage (bulkheads, sinking, and
so forth)? When she called back a few hours later after consulting with
the underwriters and said "no", I went to a true marine policy via
BOAT/US.

In addition, most home/auto companies will insure a boat at its
depreciated value (a number determined by the insurance company). By now
(12 years later), our boat would have very little value. BOAT/US still
covers us for about double what I personally feel I could sell the boat
for, but that's the agreed upon value. (our actual capital expenses are
above that, but things like our repower were part of the original
valuation.)

In other words, I strongly recommend that you go to a true marine policy.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Yacht insurance
 

I also have insurance with NMU. My reason is that for $15/yr extra I can
be insured one full year in the Bahamas, and for another $500/yr insured
for all the Caribbean (where I plan to be next year)
Kelton
s/v Isle Escape

Doug Dotson wrote:
We've got NMU based out of Annapolis. Whitched to them
last summer when our existing insurance almost doubled.
Coverage is a bit better and premiums are cheaper.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Dave" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 04 May 2004 08:18:47 -0700, santacruz said:


Boat US is the cheapest I've
found

Based on what I've heard, there's a reason for that. Great when you pay

the

premium, but hell if you have to make a claim. Our surveyor tells me he

had

to sue them twice to get them to pay up.

Yacht insurance
 

I've only heard positive comments from friends about Boat/US insurance. Every
claim was paid in full without hassle. My cousins had their Sabre lifted out of
a marsh by helicopter a few days after hurricane Bob. (Theirs was the oft
published picture!)

The only complaints I've heard of Boat/US was from people who opted for the
cheap policy which depreciates gear and has a variety of exclusions.



"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave wrote:

On Tue, 04 May 2004 08:18:47 -0700, santacruz said:

Boat US is the cheapest I've
found

Based on what I've heard, there's a reason for that. Great when you pay the
premium, but hell if you have to make a claim. Our surveyor tells me he had
to sue them twice to get them to pay up.

I have found the opposite. We have had two claims against BOAT/U.S.
policies (one ours, one the other guy's) and both were handled more
professionally than the few claims I've had with my automobile policies.

They weren't the cheapest, but were more liberal than I would have been
in the same situations. My claim against my policy was clearly my own
damned fault (leaving a dockline dangle in the water as we powered up)
and should have been rejected, but they essentially said "stuff happens"
and paid the bills that I thought were inflated.

When Isabele smacked the Chesapeake (thankfully a non-event for us due
to our dockmates' actions), many BOAT/US owners already had been handled
while their neighbors were still trying to reach their insurance
companies.

Primary question I asked my yachting home and auto insurance rep: "If a
gate valve (clearly inappropriate now) through-hull breaks, does the
insurance company cover any subsequent damage (bulkheads, sinking, and
so forth)? When she called back a few hours later after consulting with
the underwriters and said "no", I went to a true marine policy via
BOAT/US.

In addition, most home/auto companies will insure a boat at its
depreciated value (a number determined by the insurance company). By now
(12 years later), our boat would have very little value. BOAT/US still
covers us for about double what I personally feel I could sell the boat
for, but that's the agreed upon value. (our actual capital expenses are
above that, but things like our repower were part of the original
valuation.)

In other words, I strongly recommend that you go to a true marine policy.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Yacht insurance
 

wrote
.... if one company boots you, you may
find it difficult or impossible to find insurance elsewhere.

Tell me about it! When I moved from the hi-rate LA area to VA my auto
insurer informed me that they couldn't renew my policy because they were not
licensed to sell insurance in VA. So I started calling local agents, only to
find that I'd have to pay 10X what I had been paying for full coverage and
that only provided minimum liability! Why? Because my current ensurer had
refused to reinsure me! I finally found reasonable rates at a national
company (Geico), but that's the exception. The rest were like sharks in a
feeding frenze - "Wow, a safe driver we can stick it to!"

Yacht insurance
 

You must have told them your company wouldn't reinsure you... Otherwise they
would have held the lower rate because your old company wasn't licensed to
carry your policy in the new location.

That isn't a refusal, that is simply that they can't legally do it.

"Vito" wrote in message
...
wrote
.... if one company boots you, you may
find it difficult or impossible to find insurance elsewhere.

Tell me about it! When I moved from the hi-rate LA area to VA my auto
insurer informed me that they couldn't renew my policy because they were
not
licensed to sell insurance in VA. So I started calling local agents, only
to
find that I'd have to pay 10X what I had been paying for full coverage and
that only provided minimum liability! Why? Because my current ensurer had
refused to reinsure me! I finally found reasonable rates at a national
company (Geico), but that's the exception. The rest were like sharks in a
feeding frenze - "Wow, a safe driver we can stick it to!"

Yacht insurance
 

If you're looking for insurance on a larger boat, a yacht policy is
the only way to go. I've recently had the chance to speak with an
admirality lawyer about the finer points of marine insurance at a Sail
and Power Squadron event. I made sure I dug out my policy after that
conversation and went over it with a fine tooth comb. It's pretty
scary what insurance companies pull.

Make sure you get a copy of your actual policy, not just the standard
copy they provide. Many do not actually write the policy until you
make a claim. It is then that they find 'problems' with your
application. You may have a pamphlet they sent you with 'typical'
policy in it, but this is not your actual policy.

Make sure anyone that is going to operate the boat routinely is listed
on the policy. This means the wife, husband, significant other, room
mate, brother, etc. If a claim has to be made and someone else was at
the helm that is not on the policy, the claim can be rejected. A
yacht policy is not like an auto policy. Just because you gave
someone permission to use the boat does NOT mean they are covered by
your insurance. Some policies have clauses the provide for consent of
use, many do not.

Take a boat safety class - many insurance companies offer discounts
for passing a class like this. Contact your local Sail and Power
Squadron or Coast Guard Aux. Flotilla. They should be able to provide
you with a schedule for these classes.

Make sure you read the policy - not all policies are the same. I have
insurance through BoatUS, who use CNA as their underwriters. There
policy is much more comprehensive than any other policy I have found.
It's not the cheapest but covers more. I had bound coverage through
the Sail and Power Squadron's insurance program run through St. Paul.
The premium was about $300 cheaper a year, but the policy was
worthless. A lot of exclusions and a lot of services weren't present
that CNA offers.

Dan Schiro
M/V Sea Ranch

Yacht insurance
 

wrote in message
ink.net...
You must have told them your company wouldn't reinsure you...

Nope, I know a little something having been a licensed agent in Ca. They all
asked why I was shopping. I told them that I was new to the state and that
my current insurer couldn't do business there. Trouble is the vast majority
of people in the insurance business have the brains and morality of a shark.

For example, when a man clobbered my near-new Caddie his insurer quickly
agreed to pay to fix my car but when I asked where they'd prefer I rented a
car while that was happening I was told "That's not our policy". I replied
"Fine, I'll rent a Caddie from Hertz and sue your client." they had a change
of heart. Then they tried to badger me into accepting a rent-a-wreck instead
of a comparable car, only relenting when I mentioned my lawyer. Worst of
all most "insurance" people see nothing dishonest about their behavior,
proving something I guess.

And then there's Allstate ....

Yacht insurance
 

"santacruz" wrote in message
...
You didn't say where you are. In the US, Boat US is the cheapest I've
found. 52' sloop, $230K hull value for a little over $900 a year. Set
the deductible as high as they'll let you, unless you're planning to
use it. Buy the boat, car and house insurance at the same place for
multiple discounts. I don't think the auto club does 40' but they
might - I know they didn't do 52' or I'd be there.

Make sure your purchase survey is acceptable to your insurance co -
out of the water, known surveyor, etc - otherwise you'll need a second
survey.

Most US marine insurance brokers are a pain in the ass. Blue Water and
Hayden are 2 of the worst.


"Santacruz", would you care to share why you feel Hayden is so bad? My
experience over the last 4 years with them has been exemplary. I'd like to
know what to look out for.

Yacht insurance
 

So - you think I'm dumb enuff to get into a long detailed "we can tell
who she is and her friends also" discussion - sorry - check around and
watch your checkbook



On Fri, 07 May 2004 02:45:30 GMT, "Free Rider"
wrote:


"santacruz" wrote in message
.. .
You didn't say where you are. In the US, Boat US is the cheapest I've
found. 52' sloop, $230K hull value for a little over $900 a year. Set
the deductible as high as they'll let you, unless you're planning to
use it. Buy the boat, car and house insurance at the same place for
multiple discounts. I don't think the auto club does 40' but they
might - I know they didn't do 52' or I'd be there.

Make sure your purchase survey is acceptable to your insurance co -
out of the water, known surveyor, etc - otherwise you'll need a second
survey.

Most US marine insurance brokers are a pain in the ass. Blue Water and
Hayden are 2 of the worst.


"Santacruz", would you care to share why you feel Hayden is so bad? My
experience over the last 4 years with them has been exemplary. I'd like to
know what to look out for.