"David L. Martel" wrote in
:

Article I sec.8 gives Congress the power to levy taxes. Taxes on
income
have been levied several times in US history. The 16th Amendment to
the Constitution passed in 1913 reaffirms Congress's right to collect
income taxes. The US Tariff Act of 1913 then levied an income tax. The
actual minutia is the IRS codes.

Dave M.



The 16th Amendment was never ratified, rendering it moot. Amendments
must be ratified, according to the constitution, protecting states
rights to NOT become slaves of the central government.

The Supreme Court also pointed out that the 16th Amendment did NOT grant
the government any NEW taxes, such as the Income Tax on INDIVIDUAL
Americans.

It IS legal to tax income from GAINS of corporations. That's not in
question. What IS and has been since 1913 in question is there is no
law that gives the government the power to make UNAPPORTIONED taxes on
PERSONAL income....and never has been.

The IRS code is NOT US law. The IRS code is REGULATION by BUREAUCRATS
who were told they had this power to unapportioned taxes on individuals.
Because of a lack of enabling legislation, IRS code is null and void.
Bureaucrats cannot and SHOULD NOT have any power to enable anything
outside US CODE. If they can...we're DOOMED!

If any of you have not seen Aaron Russo's great movie about income tax,
the IRS and other issues, it's MOST enlightening. NOONE would discuss
with him, especially on camera, anything about the enabling law of the
IRS and its taxes.....good evidence, itself, that there is no law....or
they could simply hand it to him in a little booklet IRS is SO good at
producing by the ton!

The movie has long lists of case law about the 16th Amendment to refresh
America's shortness of memory. The voice vote during Christmas recess
that enabled the Federal Reserve Private Bank Corporation to rob the
nation of its money supply and hand control over to the Jekyll Island
Bank Billionaires never had a quorum vote, either. It was a great case
of trickery by the bankers and their cronies in Congress.

DanielSan wrote in newsoOdne9Zw-
:

* United States Constitution -- Article I, Section 8, Clause 1
* 26 U.S.C.

There is NO LAW that requires you to pay INCOME TAX, an UNAPPORTIONED,
Unconstitutional tax on labor.

...what?!



If you'll notice, this is about APPORTIONED TAXES. UNapportioned taxes are
against the Constitution. The Federal Income Tax is the worst of
UNapportioned taxes and is unconstitutional, even if it were a law, which
it is not.

No, there had to be an ENABLING law, passed by the US Congress and signed
by the PRESIDENT that enabled the IRS and its goons. There is NO SUCH LAW.

Larry wrote:
"David L. Martel" wrote in
:

Article I sec.8 gives Congress the power to levy taxes. Taxes on
income
have been levied several times in US history. The 16th Amendment to
the Constitution passed in 1913 reaffirms Congress's right to collect
income taxes. The US Tariff Act of 1913 then levied an income tax. The
actual minutia is the IRS codes.

Dave M.



The 16th Amendment was never ratified, rendering it moot. Amendments
must be ratified, according to the constitution, protecting states
rights to NOT become slaves of the central government.

Um. The 16th Amendment WAS ratified. In 1913. Which you mention below.


The Supreme Court also pointed out that the 16th Amendment did NOT grant
the government any NEW taxes, such as the Income Tax on INDIVIDUAL
Americans.

It IS legal to tax income from GAINS of corporations. That's not in
question. What IS and has been since 1913 in question is there is no
law that gives the government the power to make UNAPPORTIONED taxes on
PERSONAL income....and never has been.

The IRS code is NOT US law.

Err, yes. Yes it is. It is part of the United States Code.

The IRS code is REGULATION by BUREAUCRATS
who were told they had this power to unapportioned taxes on individuals.
Because of a lack of enabling legislation, IRS code is null and void.
Bureaucrats cannot and SHOULD NOT have any power to enable anything
outside US CODE. If they can...we're DOOMED!

......Outside US Code? What the ****?


--
************************************************** ****
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*----------------------------------------------------*
* It has been said that Jesus died on a Friday and *
* was resurrected on a Sunday. It is not so much *
* that Jesus died for our sins, as he had a very *
* bad weekend for them. *
************************************************** ****

Larry wrote:
DanielSan wrote in newsoOdne9Zw-
:

* United States Constitution -- Article I, Section 8, Clause 1
* 26 U.S.C.

There is NO LAW that requires you to pay INCOME TAX, an UNAPPORTIONED,
Unconstitutional tax on labor.
...what?!



If you'll notice, this is about APPORTIONED TAXES. UNapportioned taxes are
against the Constitution. The Federal Income Tax is the worst of
UNapportioned taxes and is unconstitutional, even if it were a law, which
it is not.

No, there had to be an ENABLING law, passed by the US Congress and signed
by the PRESIDENT that enabled the IRS and its goons. There is NO SUCH LAW.


And your evidence that the Federal Income Tax is unapportioned is...?
And that such "unapportioned taxes" is unconstitutional is...?

--
************************************************** ****
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*----------------------------------------------------*
* It has been said that Jesus died on a Friday and *
* was resurrected on a Sunday. It is not so much *
* that Jesus died for our sins, as he had a very *
* bad weekend for them. *
************************************************** ****

June,
Your comments here are not incorrect, but they are irrelevant. It's not
about the man. It is about policy, beliefs and the trust in the honesty he
speaks. History has taught this lesson many times over.
Steve

"June" wrote in message
...
You show amazing ignorance. Maybe you ought to research Obamas
education, his honors at Harvard (1st Afro American to be appointed
head of Harvard Law Review), his opting to not take all the big money
jobs offered and decided for a career in service. He even taught
constitutional law for a few years. 12 years in the Illinois
legislature and a couple years as a US senatory. The man has character
and intelligence. Things lacking in his opponent. Think on this:



What if things were switched around.....think about it. Would the
country's collective point of view be different?
Could racism be the culprit? Ponder the following:



What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating
class as did John McCain?

What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?

What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe
disfiguring car accident, which McCain did.?

What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair
while
he was still married, which McCain did.?

What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to
pain
killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable
organization, instead of Cindy McCain?


What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five and been chastised
by his peers, as was McCain.?
(The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of
corruption
in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger
Savings
and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)

What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter?

What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included
discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?

What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many
occasions, a serious anger management problem, including calling his
wife a c**t in front of a group of reporters?

What if Michelle Obama's family had made their millions from beer
distribution?

What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?


What if Obama was 72 years old with 4 bouts of cancer behind him,who
is periodically showing signs of confusion because of what some have
said is the onset of dementia, and irresponsibly picked the least
qualified VP choice and without even properly vetting her, as did
McCain.

You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected
reality,
do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they
are?

This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes
positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities
in
another when there is a color difference.

Educational Background:

Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in
International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political
Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

Sarah Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester (left because she didn't like
the weather)
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices
in
the land as well as our standing in the world. You make the call.


June

On Nov 1, 4:51*pm, Larry wrote:
Two meter troll wrote in news:a9b7e418-d399-4919-98f6-
:

try this Larry. they no longer have controll of the republican party,
the fundimental christians do.
you now at this moment have a bible fundimental that thinks the
rapture will come and he and his brethrin will be raised up to heaven
and be rewarded for killing the unbelivers and abortionists at the
button. And you are a heathen unbeliver.

Id rather have the jews at least they wont kill the cash cow.

It is a point, but the Christians don't have their own atomic bombs, which
may limit their "power".....

I think they have ours.

On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 00:59:33 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote in alt.atheism:

June,
I do not dispute your observations, but they are too superficial and
incomplete. First there are no successful government supplied health
systems....anywhere.

You are flat out wrong not only do they work throughout the world but
they even work in the USA. Until the Bush Administration, intent on
proving that government cannot work by destroying the institutions that
did work, gutted the VA and military health systems, they were superior
to most other hospitals in the United States. I have no idea if your
claim came from ignorance or politically motivated dishonesty, though
the rest of your post implies that dishonesty was at work.

....

Obama has had passing grades with LCV for the environment. Clean air, water
and such are concerns of many people for their grandchildren. McCain scored
0%.

Obama was promoted as support for guy with connections to terrorist. It
turns out McCain gave much larger some of money to same group.

McCain voted with Bush 90% so he claims or brags.

Obama is going to be president as well has an asset to the American people.

I am friends with a guy, lets call him Bob the manufacturer. He has
received many awards for creating jobs in USA and shipping products abroad.
He also does not mind paying taxes.

Obama will be a great president exiting the Bush politics which McCain has
proven 90% of the time his true standing.

BTW please explain what McCain is going to do to break from Bush.

What specifically has McCain done positive for the environment our grand
children will inherit?

What has he done?

What has Palin done good for the environment.
Please list date and action.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
and
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
Watch out for so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, tornado's, volcanic eruptions and other
abiotic forces keep reminding humans that they are not the boss.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"David L. Martel" wrote in
:

Article I sec.8 gives Congress the power to levy taxes. Taxes on
income
have been levied several times in US history. The 16th Amendment to
the Constitution passed in 1913 reaffirms Congress's right to collect
income taxes. The US Tariff Act of 1913 then levied an income tax. The
actual minutia is the IRS codes.

Dave M.



The 16th Amendment was never ratified, rendering it moot. Amendments
must be ratified, according to the constitution....


For a fairly intelligent guy, you can sure go off the deep end sometimes.
Your statement is completely wrong.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitut...ndmentxvi.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen...Constitut ion
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from
whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and
without regard to any census or enumeration. "


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

DanielSan wrote in
t:

Um. The 16th Amendment WAS ratified. In 1913. Which you mention below.


A little History is in order....

http://www.givemeliberty.org/feature...otratified.htm

Bill Benson:
http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/home.asp

http://www.usconstitution.net/constamnotes.html

http://political-resources.com/taxes...nt/default.htm

http://moneycentral.msn.com/articles...95.asp?Printer

http://jeffdickstein.com/

http://technorati.com/videos/youtube...%3D90N-fPI38HI

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_was_t...dment_ratified

Dare I also mention the movie who has a chapter about this called:

"Zeitgeist"
The bank and tax frauds begin at 1 hour 14 minutes on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kHhc67GopM
but every human needs to watch the whole movie if he dares to shake his
lifelong brainwashing to its core.....