Rolling remedies
 

Hi ng,

Normally I'm lurking but now I've got a question.
On our crossings we normally have a downwind course. When the wave's
come in at say between 120 and 160 degrees our boat tends to roll a 10
degrees over starboard and 10 degrees over port. What I do is getting
the weight as low as possible, even out as much as possible the sail
surface's at port and starbord, and sometimes steer another course. I
wonder if you are familiar with any further techniques I havent
thought of yet.
Any advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Len, pa2q
www.svpresent.waarbenjij.nu

Rolling remedies
 

"Len" wrote in message
...
Hi ng,

Normally I'm lurking but now I've got a question.
On our crossings we normally have a downwind course. When the wave's
come in at say between 120 and 160 degrees our boat tends to roll a 10
degrees over starboard and 10 degrees over port. What I do is getting
the weight as low as possible, even out as much as possible the sail
surface's at port and starbord, and sometimes steer another course. I
wonder if you are familiar with any further techniques I havent
thought of yet.
Any advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Len, pa2q
www.svpresent.waarbenjij.nu


I can't think of anything besides not sailing a different course.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Rolling remedies
 

Len wrote:
Hi ng,

Normally I'm lurking but now I've got a question.
On our crossings we normally have a downwind course. When the wave's
come in at say between 120 and 160 degrees our boat tends to roll a 10
degrees over starboard and 10 degrees over port. What I do is getting
the weight as low as possible, even out as much as possible the sail
surface's at port and starbord, and sometimes steer another course. I
wonder if you are familiar with any further techniques I havent
thought of yet.
Any advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Len, pa2q
www.svpresent.waarbenjij.nu


Yellow heeling balls!

Cheers
Martin

Rolling remedies
 

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 06:55:19 -0700 (PDT), Len
wrote:

On our crossings we normally have a downwind course. When the wave's
come in at say between 120 and 160 degrees our boat tends to roll a 10
degrees over starboard and 10 degrees over port. What I do is getting
the weight as low as possible, even out as much as possible the sail
surface's at port and starbord, and sometimes steer another course. I
wonder if you are familiar with any further techniques I havent
thought of yet.

Changing course is the easy, low cost solution. If you want
something better than that, you might want to consider flying
paravanes from twin whisker poles. It takes quite a bit of rigging
and practice to get them set them up properly and deployed safely.
They are quite effective however as demonstrated by the thousands of
commercial fishing trawlers that use them.

http://www.boatexec.com/Paravanes.htm

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/mari...4_Figure_2.gif

http://www.kolstrand.com/index_files/stabilizer.htm

Rolling remedies
 

Wayne.B wrote:
Changing course is the easy, low cost solution.

Most effective, too

...* If you want
something better than that, you might want to consider flying
paravanes from twin whisker poles. * It takes quite a bit of rigging
and practice to get them set them up properly and deployed safely.

They can be a handful... there's a very good Navy manual on rigging &
handling paravanes, intended for minesweeps though.

I wonder if a single paravane deployed from a higher lever arm (like a
sailboat mast) could be effective at reducing heeling & rolling

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Rolling remedies
 

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:51:53 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I wonder if a single paravane deployed from a higher lever arm (like a
sailboat mast) could be effective at reducing heeling & rolling

Height is useful for reducing tension on the paravane topping lift.
Using a single paravane upwind to reduce heeling is an interesting
idea. Of course you need some way of getting it out away from the
boat to create a longer lever arm and prevent inadvertant hull
strikes. Single paravanes create an asymetric righting force which is
considered dangerous on fishing trawlers, and believed to have caused
several capsize incidents. Upwind on a sailboat it would greatly
increase time and effort to tack but that would not normally be an
issue on a long offshore passage.

Rolling remedies
 

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 06:55:19 -0700 (PDT), Len
wrote:

Hi ng,

Normally I'm lurking but now I've got a question.
On our crossings we normally have a downwind course. When the wave's
come in at say between 120 and 160 degrees our boat tends to roll a 10
degrees over starboard and 10 degrees over port. What I do is getting
the weight as low as possible, even out as much as possible the sail
surface's at port and starbord, and sometimes steer another course. I
wonder if you are familiar with any further techniques I havent
thought of yet.
Any advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Len, pa2q
www.svpresent.waarbenjij.nu

But basically without making major modification to the rig or boat
weight, high up, slows rolling -- to the extent that if carried to
excess it can cause capsizing.

Down wind sailing wing and wing promotes rolling as the wind force is
equal on both sides of the boat. Depending on the exact wind angle
sometimes having all sails on one side of the boat will give you get a
small angle of heel that cancels out some of the roll.

From experience, bilge keels help very little; towing parvanes slows
the boat about one knot and if you try them start slowly as there is
considerable force on the parvanes and if you roll enough to pull one
out of the water they can do real damage to boats and people, i.e.,
YOU. Never use rope or synthetic lines to tow the parvane. Cable or
chain only.

Of course, if you have fat pockets powered vanes work best but the
power boat guys tell me that you need to be going about seven knots
for them to have much effect.

The usual solution for us po' folks is to tack down wind :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Rolling remedies
 

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:54:20 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 06:55:19 -0700 (PDT), Len
wrote:

Hi ng,

Normally I'm lurking but now I've got a question.
On our crossings we normally have a downwind course. When the wave's
come in at say between 120 and 160 degrees our boat tends to roll a 10
degrees over starboard and 10 degrees over port. What I do is getting
the weight as low as possible, even out as much as possible the sail
surface's at port and starbord, and sometimes steer another course. I
wonder if you are familiar with any further techniques I havent
thought of yet.
Any advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Len, pa2q
www.svpresent.waarbenjij.nu

But basically without making major modification to the rig or boat
weight, high up, slows rolling -- to the extent that if carried to
excess it can cause capsizing.

Down wind sailing wing and wing promotes rolling as the wind force is
equal on both sides of the boat. Depending on the exact wind angle
sometimes having all sails on one side of the boat will give you get a
small angle of heel that cancels out some of the roll.

From experience, bilge keels help very little; towing parvanes slows
the boat about one knot and if you try them start slowly as there is
considerable force on the parvanes and if you roll enough to pull one
out of the water they can do real damage to boats and people, i.e.,
YOU. Never use rope or synthetic lines to tow the parvane. Cable or
chain only.

Of course, if you have fat pockets powered vanes work best but the
power boat guys tell me that you need to be going about seven knots
for them to have much effect.

The usual solution for us po' folks is to tack down wind :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)


Sorry, I missed. the first paragraph should have read:

You really need to talk to Roger as I believe he wrote an extensive
report on rolling and remedies some time ago. Perhaps you can search
the archives.

But.....

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Rolling remedies
 

On Oct 29, 5:55*am, Len wrote:

Thanks in advance,

A few here touched on a few idea.... I like to keep it simple:
1) sail a diffrent course or if you insist,
2) ballast aft.

Bob

Rolling remedies
 

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:54:20 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 06:55:19 -0700 (PDT), Len
wrote:

Hi ng,

Normally I'm lurking but now I've got a question.
On our crossings we normally have a downwind course. When the wave's
come in at say between 120 and 160 degrees our boat tends to roll a 10
degrees over starboard and 10 degrees over port. What I do is getting
the weight as low as possible, even out as much as possible the sail
surface's at port and starbord, and sometimes steer another course. I
wonder if you are familiar with any further techniques I havent
thought of yet.
Any advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Len, pa2q
www.svpresent.waarbenjij.nu

But basically without making major modification to the rig or boat
weight, high up, slows rolling -- to the extent that if carried to
excess it can cause capsizing.

Down wind sailing wing and wing promotes rolling as the wind force is
equal on both sides of the boat. Depending on the exact wind angle
sometimes having all sails on one side of the boat will give you get a
small angle of heel that cancels out some of the roll.

From experience, bilge keels help very little; towing parvanes slows
the boat about one knot and if you try them start slowly as there is
considerable force on the parvanes and if you roll enough to pull one
out of the water they can do real damage to boats and people, i.e.,
YOU. Never use rope or synthetic lines to tow the parvane. Cable or
chain only.

Of course, if you have fat pockets powered vanes work best but the
power boat guys tell me that you need to be going about seven knots
for them to have much effect.

The usual solution for us po' folks is to tack down wind :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

How about a large balloon from the top of the mast?

Rolling remedies
 

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 06:47:14 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:54:20 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 06:55:19 -0700 (PDT), Len
wrote:

Hi ng,

Normally I'm lurking but now I've got a question.
On our crossings we normally have a downwind course. When the wave's
come in at say between 120 and 160 degrees our boat tends to roll a 10
degrees over starboard and 10 degrees over port. What I do is getting
the weight as low as possible, even out as much as possible the sail
surface's at port and starbord, and sometimes steer another course. I
wonder if you are familiar with any further techniques I havent
thought of yet.
Any advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Len, pa2q
www.svpresent.waarbenjij.nu

But basically without making major modification to the rig or boat
weight, high up, slows rolling -- to the extent that if carried to
excess it can cause capsizing.

Down wind sailing wing and wing promotes rolling as the wind force is
equal on both sides of the boat. Depending on the exact wind angle
sometimes having all sails on one side of the boat will give you get a
small angle of heel that cancels out some of the roll.

From experience, bilge keels help very little; towing parvanes slows
the boat about one knot and if you try them start slowly as there is
considerable force on the parvanes and if you roll enough to pull one
out of the water they can do real damage to boats and people, i.e.,
YOU. Never use rope or synthetic lines to tow the parvane. Cable or
chain only.

Of course, if you have fat pockets powered vanes work best but the
power boat guys tell me that you need to be going about seven knots
for them to have much effect.

The usual solution for us po' folks is to tack down wind :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

How about a large balloon from the top of the mast?


Or a big wing....

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Rolling remedies
 

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote

You really need to talk to Roger as I believe he wrote an extensive
report on rolling and remedies some time ago. Perhaps you can search
the archives.


Thanks, but that article was all about hull forms. If you think the
solution to reducing rolling is a new boat, give me a call. Otherwise, this
thread has about covered the solutions already.

--
Roger Long