This is how Skippy summed up his trip:

"We proceeded at flank speed, up the Saint Simons Channel, at
about 8:30, and had the hook down and engine off by 10:30. We
sailed the entire channel other than the anchorage, including
swinging by for a close run on a beam reach so that our Angels
could see us up close and get some pictures on the pier. We had
a great run, covering 143 miles from anchor up to anchor down, in
23 hours. Run's the word, too, as 120 miles of that was
literally a run. It was too rolly to use the pole, or we'd have
gotten here quicker :{))"

We had a great run and run's the word. Didn't I tell you novices that Skippy
was most likely running? Didn't I tell you that he was probably running to
try to minimize the rolling that sailing with quartering seas would
engender? But, noooooooooo! Did you fools listen to me? Not at all, it
seems. But who is it that ended up having a correct assessment of the
situation? Of, course it was I, as usual. It is due to my many years of
sailing experience that I can pretty much guess what is going on when Skippy
is attempting to sail offshore.

And, where is the spinnaker I wonder, yes I do? I guess the Pig doesn't
have one or the crew doesn't know how to fly one? All that hassle with the
flopping roll-ups could have been avoided by leaving the damned useless
heavy thing rolled up and setting a spinnaker instead. The mainsail should
have been sheeted in pretty much flat to act as a damper to any rolling that
an ill-designed underbody would cause.

Did I not tell everybody that Skippy still has a lot to learn? Was I not
correct in my assessment yet again? And not for the last time, BTW?

Wilbur Hubbard

On 2008-10-14 21:18:20 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

We had a great run and run's the word. Didn't I tell you novices that
Skippy was most likely running? Didn't I tell you that he was probably
running to try to minimize the rolling that sailing with quartering
seas would engender?

You didn't notice his prescript: "- Roger's right :{))"?

You didn't notice that a 20-30 degree total swing was *better*?

You didn't notice his calculations that kept him on the run, though
he'd rather had come up to a broad reach?

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

Did I not tell everybody that Skippy still has a lot to learn? Was I not
correct in my assessment yet again?


In a word, "no".

Cheers
Martin

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
This is how Skippy summed up his trip:

"We proceeded at flank speed, up the Saint Simons Channel, at
about 8:30, and had the hook down and engine off by 10:30. We
sailed the entire channel other than the anchorage, including
swinging by for a close run on a beam reach so that our Angels
could see us up close and get some pictures on the pier. We had
a great run, covering 143 miles from anchor up to anchor down, in
23 hours. Run's the word, too, as 120 miles of that was
literally a run. It was too rolly to use the pole, or we'd have
gotten here quicker :{))"

We had a great run and run's the word. Didn't I tell you novices that
Skippy was most likely running? Didn't I tell you that he was probably
running to try to minimize the rolling that sailing with quartering seas
would engender? But, noooooooooo! Did you fools listen to me? Not at all,
it seems. But who is it that ended up having a correct assessment of the
situation? Of, course it was I, as usual. It is due to my many years of
sailing experience that I can pretty much guess what is going on when
Skippy is attempting to sail offshore.

And, where is the spinnaker I wonder, yes I do? I guess the Pig doesn't
have one or the crew doesn't know how to fly one? All that hassle with the
flopping roll-ups could have been avoided by leaving the damned useless
heavy thing rolled up and setting a spinnaker instead. The mainsail should
have been sheeted in pretty much flat to act as a damper to any rolling
that an ill-designed underbody would cause.

Did I not tell everybody that Skippy still has a lot to learn? Was I not
correct in my assessment yet again? And not for the last time, BTW?

Wilbur Hubbard


Fly the kite with just 2-up? No thanks! The last spinnaker broach I
experienced sailing 2-up was the last time my wife sailed with me, she gave
up rather than subject herself to a cockpit full of cold sea water.

Dennis.

"Dennis Pogson" wrote in message
...
Fly the kite with just 2-up? No thanks! The last spinnaker broach I
experienced sailing 2-up was the last time my wife sailed with me, she
gave up rather than subject herself to a cockpit full of cold sea water.

Dennis.

Well, you have been rather unlucky to have experienced a broach while she
was aboard.
When I had a 34 footer my wife was not all that keen on flying the kite with
just the two of us aboard but finally we reached a compromise which enabled
me to use the 'storm' spinnaker, and we used it for many miles although
sometimes when the wind increased when we had it flying the question of
getting it down without problems gave us some food for thought.
Initially we flew it with a single sheet and guy (dipping pole type
gybing). We even managed to gybe it but it was not easy as she was handling
sheet and guy on two winches while steering with the tiller between her legs
while I did the foredeck work. Then I installed two extra winches and added
a lazy sheet and lazy guy. Big mistake! There was just too much for her to
handle in the cockpit while steering as well.
Now we have moved up toexactly the same sort of boat but she is 38 feet
instead of 34. This makes a surprising difference to the size of the sails
and although she came with four spinnakers of differing weights my wife will
refuse to sail with me if I intend to try even the 'storm' one while there
are just two of us. I agreed that with a mast height just short of 60'even
the 'storm' spi looks pretty huge but pointed out that now we have an
autopilot she can concentrate on sail handling in the cockpit. No joy there
at all so spinnakers are out except when we have extra crew aboard.
But the main thing is that we are still sailing together and as we have a
very fast boat we are not actually loitering even when sailing downwind.
Hope you can persuade your wife to give it another try by reaching a similar
compromise.

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:19:07 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

When I had a 34 footer my wife was not all that keen on flying the kite with
just the two of us aboard but finally we reached a compromise which enabled
me to use the 'storm' spinnaker, and we used it for many miles although
sometimes when the wind increased when we had it flying the question of
getting it down without problems gave us some food for thought.

My wife and I always flew the spinnaker with just the two of us and an
autopilot. It was fairly easy as long as we were well organized.
For the douse we'd bear off dead down wind with the boom all the way
out and collapse the chute behind the main. A good spinnaker sock can
be useful also. We would sometimes jibe that way, dousing the chute
with the sock on the original tack, dipping the pole over, jibing the
main over and resetting on the new tack.

Jibing in light air and flat water, we would bear away to DDW, center
the spinnaker, center the main, dip the pole over, then jibe and ease
the main.

On 2008-10-15 17:50:11 -0400, Wayne.B said:

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:19:07 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

When I had a 34 footer my wife was not all that keen on flying the kite with
just the two of us aboard but finally we reached a compromise which enabled
me to use the 'storm' spinnaker, and we used it for many miles although
sometimes when the wind increased when we had it flying the question of
getting it down without problems gave us some food for thought.

My wife and I always flew the spinnaker with just the two of us and an
autopilot. It was fairly easy as long as we were well organized.
For the douse we'd bear off dead down wind with the boom all the way
out and collapse the chute behind the main. A good spinnaker sock can
be useful also. We would sometimes jibe that way, dousing the chute
with the sock on the original tack, dipping the pole over, jibing the
main over and resetting on the new tack.

Jibing in light air and flat water, we would bear away to DDW, center
the spinnaker, center the main, dip the pole over, then jibe and ease
the main.

I've been resisting this sub-thread, but can no longer resist.

Xan ain't big, but her chutes are. The big one almost reaches the
transom-mounted turning blocks when sheeted tightly.

Pat may be onboard, but she is usually down below enjoying a good book
while we fly the chute.
Thus, I'm single-handing the cruising chute with Otto's help.

With practice, flying a chute is just a bit more more difficult than a
jib. Gybes could be a problem, but Otto gives us a nice smooth turn. At
the proper point in the gybe, throw the main over, blow the now
windward sheet, let the chute blow forward, then haul in on the new
sheet.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2008101601092950073-jerelull@maccom...
On 2008-10-15 17:50:11 -0400, Wayne.B
said:

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:19:07 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

When I had a 34 footer my wife was not all that keen on flying the kite
with
just the two of us aboard but finally we reached a compromise which
enabled
me to use the 'storm' spinnaker, and we used it for many miles although
sometimes when the wind increased when we had it flying the question of
getting it down without problems gave us some food for thought.

My wife and I always flew the spinnaker with just the two of us and an
autopilot. It was fairly easy as long as we were well organized.
For the douse we'd bear off dead down wind with the boom all the way
out and collapse the chute behind the main. A good spinnaker sock can
be useful also. We would sometimes jibe that way, dousing the chute
with the sock on the original tack, dipping the pole over, jibing the
main over and resetting on the new tack.

Jibing in light air and flat water, we would bear away to DDW, center
the spinnaker, center the main, dip the pole over, then jibe and ease
the main.

I've been resisting this sub-thread, but can no longer resist.

Xan ain't big, but her chutes are. The big one almost reaches the
transom-mounted turning blocks when sheeted tightly.

Pat may be onboard, but she is usually down below enjoying a good book
while we fly the chute.
Thus, I'm single-handing the cruising chute with Otto's help.

With practice, flying a chute is just a bit more more difficult than a
jib. Gybes could be a problem, but Otto gives us a nice smooth turn. At
the proper point in the gybe, throw the main over, blow the now windward
sheet, let the chute blow forward, then haul in on the new sheet.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/


Naturally the competence and experience of the lady in question play a major
part in whether or not it is worth the risk. My wife was a relative newcomer
to sailing at the time of said broach, and was not amused, despite my
assurances that this was a regular occurrence in my racing career! What are
the cockpit drains for anyway?

Some years later, sailing 2-up on a 36-foot out-and-out racer, 3-quarter
rigged, massive runners, checkstays, bendy mast, thin-as-string backstay,
and with a rather-more-experienced (sailed since the age of 3) young lady on
board, I regularly flew the kite in anything less than force 4, although the
technique we developed was hardly in the how-to-sail books! I seem to
remember she had very strong teeth!

We would gybe the main first, letting the runners go, then sort out the
foredeck, end-for-ending the pole on it's centred-span uphaul, whilst
praying that the backstay would hold the mast upright despite the runners
flapping loosely for a minute or so. Such manouevres are best performed if
the helm has 4 arms, but as I said, a strong set of teeth is as good as a
third arm. Swept back spreaders hadn't been invented!

I doubt whether Skip and his good lady could handle their 47-footer in like
manner, but a cruising chute would be an asset on such a boat.


Dennis.

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:09:28 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-10-15 17:50:11 -0400, Wayne.B said:

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:19:07 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

When I had a 34 footer my wife was not all that keen on flying the kite with
just the two of us aboard but finally we reached a compromise which enabled
me to use the 'storm' spinnaker, and we used it for many miles although
sometimes when the wind increased when we had it flying the question of
getting it down without problems gave us some food for thought.

My wife and I always flew the spinnaker with just the two of us and an
autopilot. It was fairly easy as long as we were well organized.
For the douse we'd bear off dead down wind with the boom all the way
out and collapse the chute behind the main. A good spinnaker sock can
be useful also. We would sometimes jibe that way, dousing the chute
with the sock on the original tack, dipping the pole over, jibing the
main over and resetting on the new tack.

Jibing in light air and flat water, we would bear away to DDW, center
the spinnaker, center the main, dip the pole over, then jibe and ease
the main.

I've been resisting this sub-thread, but can no longer resist.

Xan ain't big, but her chutes are. The big one almost reaches the
transom-mounted turning blocks when sheeted tightly.

Pat may be onboard, but she is usually down below enjoying a good book
while we fly the chute.
Thus, I'm single-handing the cruising chute with Otto's help.

With practice, flying a chute is just a bit more more difficult than a
jib. Gybes could be a problem, but Otto gives us a nice smooth turn. At
the proper point in the gybe, throw the main over, blow the now
windward sheet, let the chute blow forward, then haul in on the new
sheet.

Sounds familiar to me. I single hand often, and never think twice
about whether to use the chute. If conditions call for it, I use it.
An asym with a sock is not the same challenge as the old days. It's
really not hard to manage at all.

"Edgar" wrote:
When I had a 34 footer my wife was not all that keen on flying the kite with
just the two of us aboard but finally we reached a compromise which enabled
me to use the 'storm' spinnaker, and we used it for many miles although
sometimes when the wind increased when we had it flying the question of
getting it down without problems gave us some food for thought.

I can't figure my wife out, with regards to the spinnaker. Sometimes
she really likes it, other times she does not.
Last weekend we went for a very nice evening sail with another couple.
The wind was light (about 6~7k) and as we headed back across the
river, we were on a slightly-below-beam reach and I said "Do you think
we can carry the spinnaker and still make it the right side of that
marker?" The other couple were sailors and were game to try, my wife
enjoyed getting the spinnaker rigged and when it was set, lay
comfortably on the foredeck looking up at it, calling back advice on
trim. It was a nice lazy sail and showed the boat's light air speed
(we were going over 6 the whole time). And yet when things are getting
really fun, she doesn't seem enthusiastic about flying it.


Wayne.B wrote:
My wife and I always flew the spinnaker with just the two of us and an
autopilot. * It was fairly easy as long as we were well organized.
For the douse we'd bear off dead down wind with the boom all the way
out and collapse the chute behind the main. *A good spinnaker sock can
be useful also. * We would sometimes jibe that way, dousing the chute
with the sock on the original tack, dipping the pole over, jibing the
main over and resetting on the new tack. *

Jibing in light air and flat water, we would bear away to DDW, center
the spinnaker, center the main, dip the pole over, then jibe and ease
the main.

Self-tailing winches are huge plus in situations like this. I'm
getting some soon!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King