Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...


Written mostly a week ago; current stuff at the end...

We left you as we had thrown out the hook in Portland. We've
spent the last week enjoying the hospitality of our hosts, my
sister and brother-in-law, who live in the Portland area. We've
also been the beneficiaries of their watching a mooring at the
Portland Yacht Club, currently vacant and sufficient for Flying
Pig at the owner's suggestion, thus our parking spot while we've
been ashore. We've found the area's unusual weather this
summer...

Unusual because at this time of year, Maine is usually beautiful
and wreathed in sunshine and warm weather, followed by
crystal-clear nights at great sleeping temperatures. It's why we
came all this way, hoping to enjoy the bounty of the Maine coast,
cruising to all the wonderful places cited to us on various
mailing lists to which I subscribe, and then moving down-coast.

Instead, we've had nearly unrelenting rain. Today is overcast and
foggy, with chances of thunderstorms later today. The area has
had many weeks of constant rain, causing lots of high-water
warnings and traffic reminders not to drive through standing
water, as it may disable the vehicle, etc...

This weather is forecast to be with us for the next several
days... Last weekend and yesterday were the only clear days
we've had, and we were fortunate enough to take advantage of both
of them.

Saturday we had a marvelous daysail on our hosts' Ericson sloop,
"racing" - at different times - several boats where friends from
the Portland Yacht Club were on the same path as we, and beating
them handily. Sunday we took a ride in their powerboat to an
island where he spent his summers in his youth, a marvelous
re-introduction to all that I found charming about Maine from my
prior visits to the area. Those were our only times on the
water, other than trips on the tender from the club to Flying
Pig.

And, Wednesday, we got to go over to Concord, NH, to visit my
85-year old father, in a "CCRC" - continuing care retirement
facility - during another clear day, enjoying our time there. It
seemed rather a waste to sail all the way to Maine and not drive
the 2 hours over to see him, and in retrospect, I wish we'd
budgeted a couple of days, as he clearly didn't want us to leave,
and there's an excellent possibility that we'll not be back in
the area until his funeral.

Of course, we have had many "maybe last visits" with him,
beginning with Lydia and my wedding celebration, now several
years ago, and he's in marvelous shape and spirits, despite his
rapidly failing (macular degeneration induced) eyesight which
leaves him, for the last couple of years, legally blind, though
he does manage to get around very well with the limited,
peripheral vision, remaining sight he has, though even that is
fading fast.

So, back to the title...

We had many successes, mostly revolving around our initial "blue
water" voyage. We were as far offshore as 250 miles for quite a
while, and as our earlier postings have revealed, were very
blessed to have had ideal conditions for the first week or so of
our trip.

We succeeded in an extended (well, brief, really, given the great
successes in utilizing our forecaster's information, and the
initially ideal weather) voyage together, just the two of us. We
learned a lot...

Our watch "schedule" wasn't really - that is, there was no set
time of watch rotation, but it worked well for us. We'd come off
watch either because the other relieved, or because we rousted
the other from sleep, because we were failing in our ability to
remain sharp. The off-watch would go immediately to bed, in
order to gain the sleep available, and thus, we were both
remarkably rested despite having maintained a 24-hour watch, at
the end of the voyage. So, that was a success in that we're now
confident that we should be able to maintain our rest but still
stand effective watches, for extended periods.

We got a great deal more familiar with our new sails, occasioned
by the originals with the boat's being torn to shreds in our
weather incident which ultimately ended on the rocks 18 months
ago. We're very pleased with the performance; we'd never have
achieved what we did on the passage with the old ones...

We sailed on every point of sail other than spinnaker run, from
poled-out wing-and-wing through a very tight beat, in widely
varying weather. We had anywhere from ghosting zephyrs to small
gales (well, perhaps full gales, if that's what 45+ amounts to -
I forget...), and I got to do a bit of hand-steering in the early
stages of a storm, which was not only exhilarating but good
practice for the time when it might be very much more than that
in both sea state and wind. We also hove to during one
particularly nasty set of weather, doing just what the exercise
was designed to do, which was get some rest and relaxation while
the storm raged outside.

We caught two large fish in succession, making it so that we had
to suspend fishing activities in order to finish them off before
we landed. And, in fact, those, along with the remains of the
chicken and steak chunks we'd prepared before leaving, fed us for
the entire voyage. We look forward to throwing out the gear
again on our way south, of which more, anon. Meanwhile, I got
much more experienced at, and even fairly successful in, fileting
our catches. What bounty the sea provides - and we are hopeful
to utilize it for the majority of our animal protein. Whether we
succeed will remain to be seen, of course, and we're not the
least bit overconfident; just the reverse, we were very
pleasantly surprised at our results, as prior efforts have not
been nearly so successful.

We got reasonably familiar with, and nominally successful at (the
challenges being blamed on worldwide lousy HF radio signal
propagation, but perhaps an issue with our rig??) sailmail, the
radio-based email program which allowed us to send and receive
email from the middle of the coastal Atlantic.

Despite our having to reset the mast collar due to a prior
rigger's having loosened the rig so much that the mast moved in
the deck opening (the deck didn't move due to a vertical stabilizing
rod standard in the Morgan 461s), even with our overtightening of the
rig as seen below, we were able to stiffen the rig as well as
successfully reattach the mast boot which had come out from under the
clamp holding the top to the mast, and there has been no movement
since that fix.

While we were under way, of course we couldn't access the links to the
current charts (that is, the forecasting charts showing the direction
and strength of the currents flowing in real time), our forecaster's
recommendations made it so we were able to either avoid adverse, or
take advantage of positive, currents. Still, those links were
invaluable to our initial planning, and will figure, again, in our
planning when we actually leave here.

Regrets, I've had a few... A riff on Ol' Blue Eyes, not really
regrets, but failures along the way, some avoidable, some just
overcome as they arose:

Our spinnaker pole's bail, used to hold it up in use, failed from age.
I did a workaround, and it will suffice until such time as we are able
to take it somewhere to have a new wire bail installed.

However, and I really don't see any way around it, if one is to
maintain the ability to reef the genoa with the pole in place, our
expensive new running rigging (the lines controlling the sails) had
chafe on both of the genoa sheets where the spinnaker pole jaw rode,
and, with the flexing of the sail, the sheet moved in the jaw. The
sheets aren't yet damaged, but will be, soon, if we were to continue.
I have not yet figured out a workaround for that problem.

In the course of trying to mitigate the amount of movement the mast
has (had, I fervently hope!), I overtightened the shrouds (the
stainless steel wires holding the mast in place) on the sides of the
boat. That caused the hull to flex, pulling inward slightly, which
caused the plates which lift out of the sole (the cabin flooring) to
bind, aft of the mast. We've loosened those shrouds since, and have
the flooring almost completely free, but we'll wait until we sail a
bit to twiddle any more, as I certainly don't want to return to the
state of the previously floppy mast!

In the course of the heavy weather, when we had to use extraordinary
effort to reef our genoa prior to heaving to that morning, the tube
connecting the bottom to the top had a weld fail. That is a simple
age issue, and better to have discovered it in a marine center, where
we were able (albeit expensively!) to have it removed and rewelded.
Given that a new one is in the mid 4-figures, we're very glad that
Harken said it would be perfectly sound to reweld it, which Handy Boat
Services did for us at a contractor. Just a heads-up for any
interested parties - the invoice for their work was the most
uninformative piece of paper I've ever seen: "Tube on drum of furler
needs to be welded" Labor......XXXX Environmental Charge....YYY Total
Amount Due.....ZZZZ - no rate, no hours, nothing but a dollar amount
along with some environmental padding...

As seen in one of the daily passage notes, we ran out of fuel. That
was just laziness, not checking the engine hours against our last
fill. However, it allowed us to further mark our dip stick, showing,
now, the exact 5 and 10 gallon levels remaining in the tank - as well
as learn, for dead certain, the exact capacity of the fuel tank. As
our surveyor (the quality control manager at Morgan during the entire
production run of these boats) had observed, the tank sizes are
nominal by calculation, and as they're laid up fiberglass, usually are
smaller than the nominal amount. That was true in our case, but we
now know that we have a true 83 gallons when full.

Our spreader, foredeck, and mast lights became inoperative between
Fernandina Beach and Maine, somewhere along the way. A trip up the
mast, after first checking for power at the panel, was fruitless, if
educational. Sparing you the gory details, it was a ground in the
panel, overlooked as I was expecting power difficulties, when I was in
there. In the end, merely reattaching the unattached ground cured all
those problems. Sometimes the simplest solutions are overlooked...

Our hailer on our VHF radio has not worked since installation. More
up-the-mast work, and replacing the new horn installed when the storm
and wreck 18 months ago caused the other new horn to take flight, and
the new horn (the third new one) doesn't work. In the end, there's
some fault in the cable, as the horn works at the mast base connection
point. Because we're anxious to leave on a lovely weather window,
I'll wait for the replacement of the cable, already in hand for
another day. I like it up the mast, anyway, and will do the last of
my electronics stuff while I'm up there - changing out the power
supply for the wifi unit at the top of the mast, making the only
remaining AC device the monitor on our computer system (well, and
Lydia's laptop)...

In the course of chasing leaks which have plagued the forward cabin,
it was noted that the berth base was suffering from rot in the very
front, and as that's part of the support system for the stay (the
stainless steel wire partway up the mast) on the inner staysail, that
was a critical event. Interesting and contortionist activities on my
part got the old rot cut out and as it was just 1/2" plywood, the
8x3/4" solid birch I replaced that segment with will be massively
stronger. Any time I've found rot aboard, I've replaced the old with
something much stronger...

So, back to the leaks, Lydia has been aggressively applying Captain
Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure everywhere on deck, and has found many
places where leaks might have occurred. The smallish rain we had last
night was not a good test, but there are no leaks in the forward cabin
at this writing. Every actual-user's report on this stuff has raved,
so we'll be sure to do so ourselves if heavy weather proves it to have
cured our persistent leaks!

And, still in the bow cabin, we took off the cushion covers to wash
them - but the best we can tell, my sister tossed them with the
garbage in our rush to get out after our trip on the weekend, as
they'd been put in a plastic bag to protect against the spray and rain
in the tender on the ride back. By the time we discovered their
disappearance, the yacht club garbage was long gone. New covers are
on order from a local fabricator, and will be far more robust, being
of an ultrasuede clone, than the prior ones. Eventually we'll have
the entire boat done in the same sort of stuff, but it's
breathtakingly expensive, so it will have to wait.

Finally, due to the fiddly construction needed for the flush mounted
handle on our freezer, the mounting point finally failed due to a
smallish material footprint available. When I defrosted the
refrigerator, I took advantage of the warm time to remove the door
entirely and Lydia epoxied up the failed area. On reinstallation,
voila, the refrigeration worked as expected, rather than struggling to
maintain proper temperatures as it had in our journey. At this
writing, I've not replaced the screws but will instead drill and tap
the epoxy for a machine screw mount, which should be very superior to
the original screw-in-wood.

So, with our various boat chores finished, and our time available for
going down east having been rained out, tomorrow at first light we'll
head down the coast under the northwester which has sprung up this
afternoon, arriving in Cape Cod Bay some time on Thursday, all other
weather and boat stuff being as forecast.

I may not do an under-way posting; we'll have to see how that turns
out. However, Flying Pig is again aloft, heading to Cape Cod, then
the Canal and Nantucket, where Lydia will catch up with her best buddy
from her days in Sarasota many years ago.

All in all, the rainout aside, this has been a fantastic voyage...

Stay tuned :{))

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power
to make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

Skip: Sorry to have missed you. We're in Mount Desert climbing
mountains. Assumed you'd venture north and explore some.
We'll be here for a few more days before heading back south. Perhaps
we'll see you again in Nappytown.
J

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

On Aug 19, 3:14*pm, "Skip Gundlach" wrote:
Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...

Written mostly a week ago; current stuff at the end...

Unusual because at this time of year, Maine is usually beautiful
and wreathed in sunshine and warm weather, followed by
crystal-clear nights at great sleeping temperatures. *It's why we
came all this way, hoping to enjoy the bounty of the Maine coast,

Huh????????????
Having mhy ggg grand pa born in Baring ME in 1804 and my gg grand pa
married a Corless in Houlton Maine in 1840 id say it sounds like Maine
weather. But what would I know!?!? I wont even get into the DAR


Instead, we've had nearly unrelenting rain.

So.......


Today is overcast and
foggy,

Ummm, wonderful soothing blanket of mist and grey :)




We had many successes, mostly revolving around our initial "blue
water" voyage. *We were as far offshore as 250 miles for quite a
while, and as our earlier postings have revealed, were very
blessed to have had ideal conditions for the first week or so of
our trip.


Good! new areas. veryimprotant.

Our watch "schedule" wasn't really - that is, there was no set
time of watch rotation, but it worked well for us. *We'd come off
watch either because the other relieved, or because we rousted
the other from sleep, because we were failing in our ability to
remain sharp. *

Excellent ! Sleep and rest is a good position to start from. Ya never
know when ya gots to go for 36 hours straight.


The off-watch would go immediately to bed, in
order to gain the sleep available, and thus, we were both
remarkably rested despite having maintained a 24-hour watch,


good idea to sleep first.

HOWEVER ! ! ! ! BE ADVISED The USCG Manning Requirments state that a
seaman should not work excess of 12 hours out of every 24. Follow the
idustry standards SKip and remember that a buch of oil field
republicans agreed to the 12 hours! That should say somthing about the
need for rest ! ! !


We got a great deal more familiar with our new sails, occasioned

Good , but Id hope yould have done that jsut straight out of a harbor
you knew and then shook them out in your back yard not on the high
seas...


We caught two large fish in succession,

And i hpe you sliced them on the deck with your knife and ate the RAW
flesh as it twitched on your lips. Be a man and embrace the sea as a
preditor instead of wimpy spouse. ARgg!


We got reasonably familiar with, and nominally successful at (the
challenges being blamed on worldwide lousy HF radio signal
propagation, but perhaps an issue with our rig??) sailmail, the
radio-based email program which allowed us to send and receive
email from the middle of the coastal Atlantic.

**** can, deep six, and send the ssb to Davy Jone's locker.
Get a SSB RECEIVER and irridum sat phone


While we were under way, of course we couldn't access the links to the
current charts (that is, the forecasting charts showing the direction
and strength of the currents flowing in real time), our forecaster's
recommendations made it so we were able to either avoid adverse, or
take advantage of positive, currents. *Still, those links were
invaluable to our initial planning, and will figure, again, in our
planning when we actually leave here.



**** Skip, get some CHART ! and **** the guys telling ya where to go.
take a class on how to set a course and then do it. Sont EVER rely on
someone telling you where to go. Your the guy in charge only you know
whats going on. So do it!


Regrets, I've had a few... *

Of course, thats called learning.
Skip, its time you found a "Captain Ron" some one OUTSIDE of
recreational yachting. Find a 1600 mate with OINW on a day off. Pay
the guy $600/day and get ready to learn more than you ever emagined.

Bob

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:14:05 -0400, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...


Written mostly a week ago; current stuff at the end...

Too bad you didn't get a chance to push further east. That's where
the fun starts although Falmouth Foreside and Casco Bay do have their
attractions.

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

As we pull out, even though I don't normally respond to Boob:{)),
since he's brought it up twice, I just had to comment:

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Aug 19, 3:14 pm, "Skip Gundlach" wrote:
While we were under way, of course we couldn't access the links to
the
current charts (that is, the forecasting charts showing the
direction
and strength of the currents flowing in real time), our forecaster's
recommendations made it so we were able to either avoid adverse, or
take advantage of positive, currents. Still, those links were
invaluable to our initial planning, and will figure, again, in our
planning when we actually leave here.



**** Skip, get some CHART ! and **** the guys telling ya where to go.
take a class on how to set a course and then do it. Sont EVER rely on
someone telling you where to go. Your the guy in charge only you know
whats going on. So do it!
*****

We have charts, and you know it. We have paper charts, we have chart
kits, and both Cap'n and MaxSea (along with the complete selection
from Maine to Venezuela and into the canal, as well as NOAA's entire
catalog) electronically in addition to our chartplotter. We have a
cubic yard, dammit, of charts, which is interesting to store. I also
have a RDF and a handheld bearing compass, just because, in addition
to all those lovely charting tools (that we know how to use). No, we
don't own, nor do we anticipate ever having, a sextant...

Before we had all that, we navigated with paper charts, compass and a
handheld, DR'ing our time, direction and distance, on our first voyage
(Ft.Lauderdale around Key West, to St. Pete), 4 years before we both
got 100% on our navigation segments in the OUPV tests. Somehow we
managed to make it through the Miami/Key Biscayne shoals, navigate Key
West, into Charlotte Harbor and Venice, and eventually up Salt Creek
past the USCG to, first, the pond outside USF/Dali museum, then across
from Fish Tales.

We believe we can know where we are and where we're going. However,
we *don't* have access to the sites which show actual and forecasted
*currents* - which will allow us to maximize any benefit or minimize
any detriment, if possible. See my 7-28 Float Plan post for those
links. Useful info, including that through today and tonight, and
into tomorrow (by which time we should be there), the currents are
generally favorable along our route to Cape Cod. Not that we could
avoid it - but we could take into account, were they going the other
way, that we'd have a heading current, rather than a boosting one (not
much, but we'll take any assistance we can).

Pilot charts, planning charts, charts enroute (all of which we have) -
none will give twice-daily flow directions and velocity. So, those
links are valuable planning aids. Our forecaster has access to those,
and others, I'm sure, and did a great job of keeping us in the best
currents when our forecast models (only 120 hours) expired, making our
pre-departure planning moot.

(and a couple more throwaways):

We got a great deal more familiar with our new sails, occasioned

Good , but Id hope yould have done that jsut straight out of a harbor
you knew and then shook them out in your back yard not on the high
seas...
******
"Great deal more" is that we used them continuously, offshore.
Previously it was done in the backyards and 36-hours stints of the
trip from St. Simons Island to Miami and back (with intermediate stops
on the way south, plus a few day trips north and south) to Fernandina
Beach...

We caught two large fish in succession,

And i hpe you sliced them on the deck with your knife and ate the RAW
flesh as it twitched on your lips. Be a man and embrace the sea as a
preditor instead of wimpy spouse. ARgg!
*******
Well, in fact, I did, just for sampling. And while not predator in a
reflexive sense, we definitely are hoping to provide the bulk of our
protein from the sea...



So, with a flurry of paper charts, MaxSea open, the chartplotter on,
and 4 eyes on deck, we'll take our leave. See ya in the Cape Cod
area...

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

We got reasonably familiar with, and nominally successful at (the
challenges being blamed on worldwide lousy HF radio signal
propagation, but perhaps an issue with our rig??) sailmail, the
radio-based email program which allowed us to send and receive
email from the middle of the coastal Atlantic.

**** can, deep six, and send the ssb to Davy Jone's locker.
Get a SSB RECEIVER and irridum sat phone


Regrets, I've had a few...

Of course, thats called learning.
Skip, its time you found a "Captain Ron" some one OUTSIDE of
recreational yachting. Find a 1600 mate with OINW on a day off. Pay
the guy $600/day and get ready to learn more than you ever emagined.

Bob

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
snip We believe we can know where we are and where we're going. However,
we *don't* have access to the sites which show actual and forecasted
*currents* - which will allow us to maximize any benefit or minimize any
detriment, if possible. See my 7-28 Float Plan post for those links.
Useful info, including that through today and tonight, and into tomorrow
(by which time we should be there), the currents are generally favorable
along our route to Cape Cod. Not that we could avoid it - but we could
take into account, were they going the other way, that we'd have a heading
current, rather than a boosting one (not much, but we'll take any
assistance we can).
More snipped


Don't expect to ever be able to quantify currents. They are by their very
nature quite variable. Plot a course with only their general application in
mind.

Instead of worry about predicting currents with great accuracy prior to the
fact, simply use your GPS's cross track feature and other features such as
speed over ground to make the best use of currents as they exist locally
during your passage. Tide current tables in the ditch, which you'll probably
be using on the return trip can be quite helpful.

In other words, plan for average currents but adjust for specific current
currently. Got it?

Wilbur Hubbard

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:38:11 -0400, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

We believe we can know where we are and where we're going. However,
we *don't* have access to the sites which show actual and forecasted
*currents* - which will allow us to maximize any benefit or minimize
any detriment, if possible.

People navigated for many years without access to online tide and
current data. One of the classic sources is Eldridge:

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/-bp002.html

Reed's Nautical Almanac is another classic source and has a lot more
than tides and currents:

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/reeds.html

There are also some nifty electronic sources such as Maptech Offshore
Navigator which is a charting package that also has real time tide and
current data in convenient form. Furuno's NavNet hardware has similar
capabilities and there are probably more that I don't know about.

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

On Aug 20, 4:38*am, "Skip Gundlach" wrote:

We have charts, and you know it. We have paper charts, we have chart
kits, and both Cap'n and MaxSea (along with the complete selection
from Maine to Venezuela and into the canal, as well as NOAA's entire
catalog) electronically in addition to our chartplotter. *We have a
cubic yard, dammit, of charts, which is interesting to store. *I also
have a RDF and a handheld bearing compass, just because, in addition
to all those lovely charting tools (that we know how to use). *No, we
don't own, nor do we anticipate ever having, a sextant...

Skip


ARRGG !
Skip

A couple thoughs....

First, ADF very interesting. Old school and very useful still for near
coast work. I support the use of ADF.

Second, RE currents. Both Wilbur and Wayne B are correct. I would like
to add combined with the reference materials you have(books n charts)
will give you a good idea of tyical MEAN currents. Now ya need to take
your INTENDED course compared to your ACTUAL course and the diffrence
most likly will be the CURRENT ya ya drift n lee way too but...

If ya get real fancy take a WATER TEMP reading and that can tell ya
what CURRENT diagnoses too. Does your depth sounder transducer have
water temp??


Reading you post a second time Skip It seems like you got a HUGE
amount of INFORMATION input. I recomend getting back to the basics.
Keep it simple. Dont over whelm yourself with info sorces. Its pretty
simple If ya wanted to got to spot A and ended up in spot C the stuff
that made ya drift off course is mostlikly a current.

On a last note, since you are licensed OUPV I assume you were required
tolift your had and take the USCG Oath. Part of the Oath was to OBEY
THE ORDERS OF YOUR SUPERIOR OFFICERS.....
:)

Well since I have a 50 grt NC license does that mean you got to do
what I say :) **** just wait till I get my 90 days approp recency
tonnage in a few months and get the 100 ton. Then Ill really be an
asshole...... ya think Ill start sounding just like that kno it all
on the ill fated Red Clown.....?

Argg !

Have fun Skip and remember................. keep it simple !
Bob

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:14:05 -0400, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

We had anywhere from ghosting zephyrs to small
gales (well, perhaps full gales, if that's what 45+ amounts to -
I forget...),
Right..
Hope this helps:
http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/vbb/wor.../beaufort.html

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

"Bob" wrote in message
...
snipped a bunch of good stuff
Well since I have a 50 grt NC license does that mean you got to do
what I say :) **** just wait till I get my 90 days approp recency
tonnage in a few months and get the 100 ton. Then Ill really be an
asshole...... ya think Ill start sounding just like that kno it all
on the ill fated Red Clown.....?


If you start sounding like the Red Clown, know-it-all,
yellow-stripe-up-his-back blowhard, who has proven he just doesn't have what
it takes, you'll have to learn how to make realistic fart sounds on command.
It's called blowin' in the wind. Bwaahahahhahahahahhhhahah!

Even Skippy is a better sailor than Joe. At least he hasn't abandoned his
boat (yet) for no valid reason. A fake sprained ankle and lots whining, fear
and trepidation because of borderline gale force winds and smallish waves of
ten to fifteen feet does not a valid reason make. Such things are mere
routine sailing conditions to us real and experienced sailors. But, then
again, real and experienced sailors don't chose weak and inept females as
working crew on a commercial venture.

Wilbur Hubbard

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

On Aug 21, 11:44*am, "Wilbur Hubbard" AKA town Clown Neal
wrote:


Such things are mere
routine sailing conditions to us real and experienced sailors. But, then
again, real and experienced sailors don't chose weak and inept females as
working crew on a commercial venture.

Wilbur Hubbard

Quick Question?
How would you know anything about real sailing and commerical
ventures?
IIRC you had a useless 10gt near coastal and never made a dime with
it. If I'm wrong correct me.

I think that its typical of your total sea experience. You can make a
near perfect score on a book test but you have never been anywhere
sailing.

Also IIRC that poor female has a 100 ton oceans and has earned a
living with it.
How many commerical boats have you operated Neal? None.

I think it's funny as hell the way Joe and Skip and Zac intimidate
you so.

And Neal, you're such a know-it-all please explain what happened to
these boats
http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations_casualties.php

It's a couple hundred the last few mo, but since you can explain so
much about Joes boat and crew you can tells us all about these
people.

I think Dale had you in mind Neal when talking about the sure thing
boat. "The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is
willing to do and dare. The sure-thing boat never gets far from
shore."


Fred

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:44:28 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Bob" wrote in message
...
snipped a bunch of good stuff
Well since I have a 50 grt NC license does that mean you got to do
what I say :) **** just wait till I get my 90 days approp recency
tonnage in a few months and get the 100 ton. Then Ill really be an
asshole...... ya think Ill start sounding just like that kno it all
on the ill fated Red Clown.....?


If you start sounding like the Red Clown, know-it-all,
yellow-stripe-up-his-back blowhard, who has proven he just doesn't have what
it takes, you'll have to learn how to make realistic fart sounds on command.
It's called blowin' in the wind. Bwaahahahhahahahahhhhahah!

Even Skippy is a better sailor than Joe. At least he hasn't abandoned his
boat (yet) for no valid reason. A fake sprained ankle and lots whining, fear
and trepidation because of borderline gale force winds and smallish waves of
ten to fifteen feet does not a valid reason make. Such things are mere
routine sailing conditions to us real and experienced sailors. But, then
again, real and experienced sailors don't chose weak and inept females as
working crew on a commercial venture.

Wilbur Hubbard


To lean about sailing always listen to a wanna-be**** head who has
never sailed.

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

On 2008-08-22 01:10:02 -0400, Perley said:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:44:28 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Even Skippy is a better sailor than ....

To lean about sailing always listen to a wanna-be**** head who has
never sailed.

Slight subject-change:

Years ago, we had a raging war about "Bumfuzzle", a couple of
20-somethings on an admittedly-inferior cat. They were castigated for
having only a bit of time on 16' dinks and a quick trip through the
Bahamas before turning right.

Just found their site again, read their logs, and discovered that
they'd actually completed the trip a couple of years ago. No major
breakdowns of crew or boat, no pirates. Things broke, they fixed them.
Needed to get somewhere, they got there or a viable alternative. They
broke all the cruising rules, but did the trip they wanted, saw the
sights they wanted.

I'd say they're better sailors than those that sat in their armchairs
and criticized them.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

wrote in message
...

Quick Question?
How would you know anything about real sailing and commerical
ventures?
IIRC you had a useless 10gt near coastal and never made a dime with
it. If I'm wrong correct me.

You're wrong - consider yourself corrected.

I think that its typical of your total sea experience. You can make a
near perfect score on a book test but you have never been anywhere
sailing.

You're wrong again - consider yourself corrected again.

Also IIRC that poor female has a 100 ton oceans and has earned a
living with it.

Sounds to me like she makes a living faking sprained ankles because she
can't take a few 10-15 foot seas. Sounds to me she knows how to make a wimp
out of her husband. She's got him right where she want's him - wrapped right
around her finger. Yes, it's called being pussy-whipped, Joe!

How many commerical boats have you operated Wilbur? None.

Wrong again - consider yourself corrected for the third time . . .

I think it's funny as hell the way me and Skip and Zac intimidate
you so.

Intimidate? Bwaaaaaahahahhahahahahhhahahahhah! I guess a sure sign of
intimidation in your book is when somebody laughs their ass off at you? And,
at any other so-called sailors who put the bragging first and the successful
voyage as an afterthought.

And Wilbur, you're such a know-it-all please explain what happened to
these boats http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations_casualties.php

It's a couple hundred the last few mo, but since you can explain so
much about the prematurely abandoned Red Cloud and her inept
crew you can tells us all about these people.

That's right, Joe, go ahead and try to make yourself feel better by citing
plenty of examples of failure. But, you know in your heart that no matter
how many other so-called sailors fail it doesn't make your own failure
acceptable. That dog don't hunt, boy!

I think Dale had you in mind Wilbur when talking about the sure thing
boat. "The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is
willing to do and dare. The sure-thing boat never gets far from
shore."

Sorry but since these admonitions come from somebody whose boat is now
laying somewhere on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexica a couple hundred miles
offshore after being ill-advisedly and prematurely abandoned because of a
case of cold feet and an amateur rescue mentality attitude, I just have to
enquire, "Where's the beef?"

If you really wish to redeem yourself after your humiliating failure
compounded by all your beforehand bragging you have but one choice. That is
just shut your pie hole next time you attempt such a thing. Don't say a word
about it until and unless you get the job done next time you try. I, Wilbur
Hubbard, don't expect there will never be a foundering and I know full well
that an occasional foundering may well be due to an 'act of God' but I never
will accept a foundering because of crew ignorance, inexperience and fear
which is the only reason Red Cloud foundered. The state of the wind and sea
were nothing exceptional and the conditions were such that any real seaman
would have taken them in stride.


Wilbur Hubbard

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

bob

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

Dear Fred:
Your reference to 100 ton Oceans license caught my eye. Under the
current uscg license structure there is no such thing as an OCEANS 100
grt license. Once ya go beyond 200 miles you are now must compy to
STCW-95, an international agreement the US has signed. Stcw-95 DOES
NOT reconize anything smaller than 200 GRT (500 ITC)

Now for your hot gf to have worked 100 ton oceans she will also need
Officer INcharge of a Navigation Watch (OICNW) which means about
$15,000-$20,000 and 5 months of classes. So......... two things come
to mind: 1) youre talking about somthing that happened 25+ years ago
or 2) youre full of ****.

Which is it?


Next try this link for 100 grt ALL ROUTES check list.

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/master_100.pdf

Notice it does not mention OCEANS...............
Bob



http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/ldcr_deckreq.asp

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

On Aug 22, 12:38*pm, Bob wrote:
Dear Fred:
Your reference to 100 ton Oceans license caught my eye. Under the
current uscg license structure there is no such thing as an OCEANS 100
grt license. Once ya go beyond 200 miles you are now must compy to
STCW-95, an international agreement the US has signed. Stcw-95 DOES
NOT reconize anything smaller than 200 GRT (500 ITC)

Now for your hot gf to have worked 100 ton oceans she will also need
Officer INcharge of a Navigation Watch (OICNW) which means about
$15,000-$20,000 and 5 months of classes. So......... two things come
to mind: 1) youre talking about somthing that happened 25+ years ago
or 2) youre full of ****.

Which is it?

Next try this link for 100 grt ALL ROUTES check list.

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/master_100.pdf

Notice it does not mention OCEANS...............
Bob

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/ldcr_deckreq.asp

Uhh Bob,

She's not my GF. I saw a picture of her 100 ton a few years ago when
Neal said she did not ever have one, and Joe's 1600 ton freight and
towing ticket.

The point is Bob , nealbur said he was a know-it-all as far as
commerical ventures and sailing when he is neither. **** his useless
10Gt is almost as useless as a 50+ yo getting a lifeboat endorsement,
as both most likely will never be used.

If Neal had been anything of a success in commerical ventures or as a
Captain he would not be eeking out an existance on a **** yellow day
sailor with a bucket for a head. That simple.

Have you gotten a job on a boat yet Bob? Are you following that noble
dream to scrub the ****ters?

Fred

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

On Aug 22, 12:09*pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

Quick Question?
How would you know anything about real sailing and commerical
ventures?
*IIRC you had a useless 10gt near coastal and never made a dime with
it. If I'm wrong correct me.

You're wrong - consider yourself corrected.

I think that its typical of your total sea experience. You can make a
near perfect score on a book test but you have never been anywhere
sailing.

You're wrong again - consider yourself corrected again.

Also IIRC that poor female has a 100 ton oceans and has earned a
living with it.

Sounds to me like she makes a living faking sprained ankles because she
can't take a few 10-15 foot seas. Sounds to me she knows how to make a wimp
out of her husband. She's got him right where she want's him - wrapped right
around her finger. Yes, it's called being pussy-whipped, Joe!

How many commerical boats have you operated Wilbur? *None.

Wrong again - consider yourself corrected for the third time . . .

*I think it's funny as hell the way me and Skip and Zac intimidate
you so.

Intimidate? Bwaaaaaahahahhahahahahhhahahahhah! I guess a sure sign of
intimidation in your book is when somebody laughs their ass off at you? And,
at any other so-called sailors who put the bragging first and the successful
voyage as an afterthought.

And Wilbur, you're such a know-it-all please explain what happened to
these boats *http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations_casualties.php

It's a couple hundred the last few mo, but since you can explain so
much about the prematurely abandoned Red Cloud and her inept
crew you can tells us all about these people.

That's right, Joe, go ahead and try to make yourself feel better by citing
plenty of examples of failure. But, you know in your heart that no matter
how many other so-called sailors fail it doesn't make your own failure
acceptable. That dog don't hunt, boy!

I think Dale had you in mind Wilbur when talking about the sure thing
boat. "The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is
willing to do and dare. The sure-thing boat never gets far from
shore."

Sorry but since these admonitions come from somebody whose boat is now
laying somewhere on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexica a couple hundred miles
offshore after being ill-advisedly and prematurely abandoned because of a
case of cold feet and an amateur rescue mentality attitude, I just have to
enquire, "Where's the beef?"

If you really wish to redeem yourself after your humiliating failure
compounded by all your beforehand bragging you have but one choice. That is
just shut your pie hole next time you attempt such a thing. Don't say a word
about it until and unless you get the job done next time you try. I, Wilbur
Hubbard, don't expect there will never be a foundering and I know full well
that an occasional foundering may well be due to an 'act of God' but I never
will accept a foundering because of crew ignorance, inexperience and fear
which is the only reason Red Cloud foundered. The state of the wind and sea
were nothing exceptional and the conditions were such that any real seaman
would have taken them in stride.

Wilbur Hubbard

Gee Nealbur, could you please cite one example of Joe "bragging"
perhaps you mistake working on boats as bragging? Not sure where you
got that, I looked and could not find it.

Again you're a liar as usual. You know you have never used your
licences for anything other than wall paper.
Care to provide proof? Naaaa just dream up another lie, say that
beneth you or something, we all know you are a failure at anything to
do with sailing.

Your boat is a perfect example of your failing to do well at
anything. No one in his right mind would live on such a small little
cheap flimsy boat with a broken boom and **** bucket for a head unless
thats the best they could do.

Fred

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

wrote in message
...
snipped a bunch

Gee Wilbur, could you please cite one example of Joe "bragging"
perhaps you mistake working on boats as bragging? Not sure where you
got that, I looked and could not find it.

I guess you don't remember the boasting about running a OSV to the rigs and
all the rough weather your were required to slog through all the time
delivering supplies? Though you tried to act like you were the captain it
was evident you were just a lowly deck hand.



Again you're a liar as usual. You know you have never used your
licences for anything other than wall paper.
Care to provide proof? Naaaa just dream up another lie, say that
beneth you or something, we all know you are a failure at anything to
do with sailing.

Moi? A liar? Perish the thought! It's just that my personal boat work
history is nobody's business but my own or potential employer's which there
will be no more of since I have officially retired having made my fortune.

Never had a sinking. Never had an abandonment. Never abided a weak crew.
Never failed to complete a voyage. Never felt the need to share all the
mundane details. Unlike the majority of those these days who call themselves
sailors, I don't require an audience. Sailing is the means and the end, the
alpha and the omega and all you wannabes be damned!

You're no sailor until you understand this.

Tonnage??? Pahteuy! Means nothing if you can't even reach your destination
without foundering. A 10 GT captain who makes a successful passage is 100
times the sailor as the 1000 GT captain who fails to complete the voyage and
founders.


Your boat is a perfect example of your failing to do well at
anything. No one in his right mind would live on such a small little
cheap flimsy boat with a broken boom and **** bucket for a head unless
thats the best they could do.

You must be thinking about the world famous Capt. Neal. He was a fictional
character. I am Wilbur Hubbard and I sail an Allied Seawind 32 ketch.

Wilbur Hubbard

Maine Passage - Successes and failures, Moving On...
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:41:41 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
snipped a bunch

Gee Wilbur, could you please cite one example of Joe "bragging"
perhaps you mistake working on boats as bragging? Not sure where you
got that, I looked and could not find it.

I guess you don't remember the boasting about running a OSV to the rigs and
all the rough weather your were required to slog through all the time
delivering supplies? Though you tried to act like you were the captain it
was evident you were just a lowly deck hand.



Again you're a liar as usual. You know you have never used your
licences for anything other than wall paper.
Care to provide proof? Naaaa just dream up another lie, say that
beneth you or something, we all know you are a failure at anything to
do with sailing.

Moi? A liar? Perish the thought! It's just that my personal boat work
history is nobody's business but my own or potential employer's which there
will be no more of since I have officially retired having made my fortune.

Never had a sinking. Never had an abandonment. Never abided a weak crew.
Never failed to complete a voyage. Never felt the need to share all the
mundane details. Unlike the majority of those these days who call themselves
sailors, I don't require an audience. Sailing is the means and the end, the
alpha and the omega and all you wannabes be damned!

You're no sailor until you understand this.

Tonnage??? Pahteuy! Means nothing if you can't even reach your destination
without foundering. A 10 GT captain who makes a successful passage is 100
times the sailor as the 1000 GT captain who fails to complete the voyage and
founders.


Your boat is a perfect example of your failing to do well at
anything. No one in his right mind would live on such a small little
cheap flimsy boat with a broken boom and **** bucket for a head unless
thats the best they could do.

You must be thinking about the world famous Capt. Neal. He was a fictional
character. I am Wilbur Hubbard and I sail an Allied Seawind 32 ketch.

Wilbur Hubbard


Kind of like the guy bragging about his two circumnavigatins on hi 68
foot boat, isn't it? ****head!