As we pull out, even though I don't normally respond to Boob:{)),
since he's brought it up twice, I just had to comment:

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Aug 19, 3:14 pm, "Skip Gundlach" wrote:
While we were under way, of course we couldn't access the links to
the
current charts (that is, the forecasting charts showing the
direction
and strength of the currents flowing in real time), our forecaster's
recommendations made it so we were able to either avoid adverse, or
take advantage of positive, currents. Still, those links were
invaluable to our initial planning, and will figure, again, in our
planning when we actually leave here.



**** Skip, get some CHART ! and **** the guys telling ya where to go.
take a class on how to set a course and then do it. Sont EVER rely on
someone telling you where to go. Your the guy in charge only you know
whats going on. So do it!
*****

We have charts, and you know it. We have paper charts, we have chart
kits, and both Cap'n and MaxSea (along with the complete selection
from Maine to Venezuela and into the canal, as well as NOAA's entire
catalog) electronically in addition to our chartplotter. We have a
cubic yard, dammit, of charts, which is interesting to store. I also
have a RDF and a handheld bearing compass, just because, in addition
to all those lovely charting tools (that we know how to use). No, we
don't own, nor do we anticipate ever having, a sextant...

Before we had all that, we navigated with paper charts, compass and a
handheld, DR'ing our time, direction and distance, on our first voyage
(Ft.Lauderdale around Key West, to St. Pete), 4 years before we both
got 100% on our navigation segments in the OUPV tests. Somehow we
managed to make it through the Miami/Key Biscayne shoals, navigate Key
West, into Charlotte Harbor and Venice, and eventually up Salt Creek
past the USCG to, first, the pond outside USF/Dali museum, then across
from Fish Tales.

We believe we can know where we are and where we're going. However,
we *don't* have access to the sites which show actual and forecasted
*currents* - which will allow us to maximize any benefit or minimize
any detriment, if possible. See my 7-28 Float Plan post for those
links. Useful info, including that through today and tonight, and
into tomorrow (by which time we should be there), the currents are
generally favorable along our route to Cape Cod. Not that we could
avoid it - but we could take into account, were they going the other
way, that we'd have a heading current, rather than a boosting one (not
much, but we'll take any assistance we can).

Pilot charts, planning charts, charts enroute (all of which we have) -
none will give twice-daily flow directions and velocity. So, those
links are valuable planning aids. Our forecaster has access to those,
and others, I'm sure, and did a great job of keeping us in the best
currents when our forecast models (only 120 hours) expired, making our
pre-departure planning moot.

(and a couple more throwaways):

We got a great deal more familiar with our new sails, occasioned

Good , but Id hope yould have done that jsut straight out of a harbor
you knew and then shook them out in your back yard not on the high
seas...
******
"Great deal more" is that we used them continuously, offshore.
Previously it was done in the backyards and 36-hours stints of the
trip from St. Simons Island to Miami and back (with intermediate stops
on the way south, plus a few day trips north and south) to Fernandina
Beach...

We caught two large fish in succession,

And i hpe you sliced them on the deck with your knife and ate the RAW
flesh as it twitched on your lips. Be a man and embrace the sea as a
preditor instead of wimpy spouse. ARgg!
*******
Well, in fact, I did, just for sampling. And while not predator in a
reflexive sense, we definitely are hoping to provide the bulk of our
protein from the sea...



So, with a flurry of paper charts, MaxSea open, the chartplotter on,
and 4 eyes on deck, we'll take our leave. See ya in the Cape Cod
area...

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

We got reasonably familiar with, and nominally successful at (the
challenges being blamed on worldwide lousy HF radio signal
propagation, but perhaps an issue with our rig??) sailmail, the
radio-based email program which allowed us to send and receive
email from the middle of the coastal Atlantic.

**** can, deep six, and send the ssb to Davy Jone's locker.
Get a SSB RECEIVER and irridum sat phone


Regrets, I've had a few...

Of course, thats called learning.
Skip, its time you found a "Captain Ron" some one OUTSIDE of
recreational yachting. Find a 1600 mate with OINW on a day off. Pay
the guy $600/day and get ready to learn more than you ever emagined.

Bob

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
snip We believe we can know where we are and where we're going. However,
we *don't* have access to the sites which show actual and forecasted
*currents* - which will allow us to maximize any benefit or minimize any
detriment, if possible. See my 7-28 Float Plan post for those links.
Useful info, including that through today and tonight, and into tomorrow
(by which time we should be there), the currents are generally favorable
along our route to Cape Cod. Not that we could avoid it - but we could
take into account, were they going the other way, that we'd have a heading
current, rather than a boosting one (not much, but we'll take any
assistance we can).
More snipped


Don't expect to ever be able to quantify currents. They are by their very
nature quite variable. Plot a course with only their general application in
mind.

Instead of worry about predicting currents with great accuracy prior to the
fact, simply use your GPS's cross track feature and other features such as
speed over ground to make the best use of currents as they exist locally
during your passage. Tide current tables in the ditch, which you'll probably
be using on the return trip can be quite helpful.

In other words, plan for average currents but adjust for specific current
currently. Got it?

Wilbur Hubbard

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:38:11 -0400, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

We believe we can know where we are and where we're going. However,
we *don't* have access to the sites which show actual and forecasted
*currents* - which will allow us to maximize any benefit or minimize
any detriment, if possible.

People navigated for many years without access to online tide and
current data. One of the classic sources is Eldridge:

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/-bp002.html

Reed's Nautical Almanac is another classic source and has a lot more
than tides and currents:

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/reeds.html

There are also some nifty electronic sources such as Maptech Offshore
Navigator which is a charting package that also has real time tide and
current data in convenient form. Furuno's NavNet hardware has similar
capabilities and there are probably more that I don't know about.

On Aug 20, 4:38*am, "Skip Gundlach" wrote:

We have charts, and you know it. We have paper charts, we have chart
kits, and both Cap'n and MaxSea (along with the complete selection
from Maine to Venezuela and into the canal, as well as NOAA's entire
catalog) electronically in addition to our chartplotter. *We have a
cubic yard, dammit, of charts, which is interesting to store. *I also
have a RDF and a handheld bearing compass, just because, in addition
to all those lovely charting tools (that we know how to use). *No, we
don't own, nor do we anticipate ever having, a sextant...

Skip


ARRGG !
Skip

A couple thoughs....

First, ADF very interesting. Old school and very useful still for near
coast work. I support the use of ADF.

Second, RE currents. Both Wilbur and Wayne B are correct. I would like
to add combined with the reference materials you have(books n charts)
will give you a good idea of tyical MEAN currents. Now ya need to take
your INTENDED course compared to your ACTUAL course and the diffrence
most likly will be the CURRENT ya ya drift n lee way too but...

If ya get real fancy take a WATER TEMP reading and that can tell ya
what CURRENT diagnoses too. Does your depth sounder transducer have
water temp??


Reading you post a second time Skip It seems like you got a HUGE
amount of INFORMATION input. I recomend getting back to the basics.
Keep it simple. Dont over whelm yourself with info sorces. Its pretty
simple If ya wanted to got to spot A and ended up in spot C the stuff
that made ya drift off course is mostlikly a current.

On a last note, since you are licensed OUPV I assume you were required
tolift your had and take the USCG Oath. Part of the Oath was to OBEY
THE ORDERS OF YOUR SUPERIOR OFFICERS.....


Well since I have a 50 grt NC license does that mean you got to do
what I say **** just wait till I get my 90 days approp recency
tonnage in a few months and get the 100 ton. Then Ill really be an
asshole...... ya think Ill start sounding just like that kno it all
on the ill fated Red Clown.....?

Argg !

Have fun Skip and remember................. keep it simple !
Bob

"Bob" wrote in message
...
snipped a bunch of good stuff
Well since I have a 50 grt NC license does that mean you got to do
what I say **** just wait till I get my 90 days approp recency
tonnage in a few months and get the 100 ton. Then Ill really be an
asshole...... ya think Ill start sounding just like that kno it all
on the ill fated Red Clown.....?


If you start sounding like the Red Clown, know-it-all,
yellow-stripe-up-his-back blowhard, who has proven he just doesn't have what
it takes, you'll have to learn how to make realistic fart sounds on command.
It's called blowin' in the wind. Bwaahahahhahahahahhhhahah!

Even Skippy is a better sailor than Joe. At least he hasn't abandoned his
boat (yet) for no valid reason. A fake sprained ankle and lots whining, fear
and trepidation because of borderline gale force winds and smallish waves of
ten to fifteen feet does not a valid reason make. Such things are mere
routine sailing conditions to us real and experienced sailors. But, then
again, real and experienced sailors don't chose weak and inept females as
working crew on a commercial venture.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Aug 21, 11:44*am, "Wilbur Hubbard" AKA town Clown Neal
wrote:


Such things are mere
routine sailing conditions to us real and experienced sailors. But, then
again, real and experienced sailors don't chose weak and inept females as
working crew on a commercial venture.

Wilbur Hubbard

Quick Question?
How would you know anything about real sailing and commerical
ventures?
IIRC you had a useless 10gt near coastal and never made a dime with
it. If I'm wrong correct me.

I think that its typical of your total sea experience. You can make a
near perfect score on a book test but you have never been anywhere
sailing.

Also IIRC that poor female has a 100 ton oceans and has earned a
living with it.
How many commerical boats have you operated Neal? None.

I think it's funny as hell the way Joe and Skip and Zac intimidate
you so.

And Neal, you're such a know-it-all please explain what happened to
these boats
http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations_casualties.php

It's a couple hundred the last few mo, but since you can explain so
much about Joes boat and crew you can tells us all about these
people.

I think Dale had you in mind Neal when talking about the sure thing
boat. "The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is
willing to do and dare. The sure-thing boat never gets far from
shore."


Fred

wrote in message
...

Quick Question?
How would you know anything about real sailing and commerical
ventures?
IIRC you had a useless 10gt near coastal and never made a dime with
it. If I'm wrong correct me.

You're wrong - consider yourself corrected.

I think that its typical of your total sea experience. You can make a
near perfect score on a book test but you have never been anywhere
sailing.

You're wrong again - consider yourself corrected again.

Also IIRC that poor female has a 100 ton oceans and has earned a
living with it.

Sounds to me like she makes a living faking sprained ankles because she
can't take a few 10-15 foot seas. Sounds to me she knows how to make a wimp
out of her husband. She's got him right where she want's him - wrapped right
around her finger. Yes, it's called being pussy-whipped, Joe!

How many commerical boats have you operated Wilbur? None.

Wrong again - consider yourself corrected for the third time . . .

I think it's funny as hell the way me and Skip and Zac intimidate
you so.

Intimidate? Bwaaaaaahahahhahahahahhhahahahhah! I guess a sure sign of
intimidation in your book is when somebody laughs their ass off at you? And,
at any other so-called sailors who put the bragging first and the successful
voyage as an afterthought.

And Wilbur, you're such a know-it-all please explain what happened to
these boats http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations_casualties.php

It's a couple hundred the last few mo, but since you can explain so
much about the prematurely abandoned Red Cloud and her inept
crew you can tells us all about these people.

That's right, Joe, go ahead and try to make yourself feel better by citing
plenty of examples of failure. But, you know in your heart that no matter
how many other so-called sailors fail it doesn't make your own failure
acceptable. That dog don't hunt, boy!

I think Dale had you in mind Wilbur when talking about the sure thing
boat. "The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is
willing to do and dare. The sure-thing boat never gets far from
shore."

Sorry but since these admonitions come from somebody whose boat is now
laying somewhere on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexica a couple hundred miles
offshore after being ill-advisedly and prematurely abandoned because of a
case of cold feet and an amateur rescue mentality attitude, I just have to
enquire, "Where's the beef?"

If you really wish to redeem yourself after your humiliating failure
compounded by all your beforehand bragging you have but one choice. That is
just shut your pie hole next time you attempt such a thing. Don't say a word
about it until and unless you get the job done next time you try. I, Wilbur
Hubbard, don't expect there will never be a foundering and I know full well
that an occasional foundering may well be due to an 'act of God' but I never
will accept a foundering because of crew ignorance, inexperience and fear
which is the only reason Red Cloud foundered. The state of the wind and sea
were nothing exceptional and the conditions were such that any real seaman
would have taken them in stride.


Wilbur Hubbard

On Aug 22, 12:09*pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

Quick Question?
How would you know anything about real sailing and commerical
ventures?
*IIRC you had a useless 10gt near coastal and never made a dime with
it. If I'm wrong correct me.

You're wrong - consider yourself corrected.

I think that its typical of your total sea experience. You can make a
near perfect score on a book test but you have never been anywhere
sailing.

You're wrong again - consider yourself corrected again.

Also IIRC that poor female has a 100 ton oceans and has earned a
living with it.

Sounds to me like she makes a living faking sprained ankles because she
can't take a few 10-15 foot seas. Sounds to me she knows how to make a wimp
out of her husband. She's got him right where she want's him - wrapped right
around her finger. Yes, it's called being pussy-whipped, Joe!

How many commerical boats have you operated Wilbur? *None.

Wrong again - consider yourself corrected for the third time . . .

*I think it's funny as hell the way me and Skip and Zac intimidate
you so.

Intimidate? Bwaaaaaahahahhahahahahhhahahahhah! I guess a sure sign of
intimidation in your book is when somebody laughs their ass off at you? And,
at any other so-called sailors who put the bragging first and the successful
voyage as an afterthought.

And Wilbur, you're such a know-it-all please explain what happened to
these boats *http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations_casualties.php

It's a couple hundred the last few mo, but since you can explain so
much about the prematurely abandoned Red Cloud and her inept
crew you can tells us all about these people.

That's right, Joe, go ahead and try to make yourself feel better by citing
plenty of examples of failure. But, you know in your heart that no matter
how many other so-called sailors fail it doesn't make your own failure
acceptable. That dog don't hunt, boy!

I think Dale had you in mind Wilbur when talking about the sure thing
boat. "The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is
willing to do and dare. The sure-thing boat never gets far from
shore."

Sorry but since these admonitions come from somebody whose boat is now
laying somewhere on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexica a couple hundred miles
offshore after being ill-advisedly and prematurely abandoned because of a
case of cold feet and an amateur rescue mentality attitude, I just have to
enquire, "Where's the beef?"

If you really wish to redeem yourself after your humiliating failure
compounded by all your beforehand bragging you have but one choice. That is
just shut your pie hole next time you attempt such a thing. Don't say a word
about it until and unless you get the job done next time you try. I, Wilbur
Hubbard, don't expect there will never be a foundering and I know full well
that an occasional foundering may well be due to an 'act of God' but I never
will accept a foundering because of crew ignorance, inexperience and fear
which is the only reason Red Cloud foundered. The state of the wind and sea
were nothing exceptional and the conditions were such that any real seaman
would have taken them in stride.

Wilbur Hubbard

Gee Nealbur, could you please cite one example of Joe "bragging"
perhaps you mistake working on boats as bragging? Not sure where you
got that, I looked and could not find it.

Again you're a liar as usual. You know you have never used your
licences for anything other than wall paper.
Care to provide proof? Naaaa just dream up another lie, say that
beneth you or something, we all know you are a failure at anything to
do with sailing.

Your boat is a perfect example of your failing to do well at
anything. No one in his right mind would live on such a small little
cheap flimsy boat with a broken boom and **** bucket for a head unless
thats the best they could do.

Fred

wrote in message
...
snipped a bunch

Gee Wilbur, could you please cite one example of Joe "bragging"
perhaps you mistake working on boats as bragging? Not sure where you
got that, I looked and could not find it.

I guess you don't remember the boasting about running a OSV to the rigs and
all the rough weather your were required to slog through all the time
delivering supplies? Though you tried to act like you were the captain it
was evident you were just a lowly deck hand.



Again you're a liar as usual. You know you have never used your
licences for anything other than wall paper.
Care to provide proof? Naaaa just dream up another lie, say that
beneth you or something, we all know you are a failure at anything to
do with sailing.

Moi? A liar? Perish the thought! It's just that my personal boat work
history is nobody's business but my own or potential employer's which there
will be no more of since I have officially retired having made my fortune.

Never had a sinking. Never had an abandonment. Never abided a weak crew.
Never failed to complete a voyage. Never felt the need to share all the
mundane details. Unlike the majority of those these days who call themselves
sailors, I don't require an audience. Sailing is the means and the end, the
alpha and the omega and all you wannabes be damned!

You're no sailor until you understand this.

Tonnage??? Pahteuy! Means nothing if you can't even reach your destination
without foundering. A 10 GT captain who makes a successful passage is 100
times the sailor as the 1000 GT captain who fails to complete the voyage and
founders.


Your boat is a perfect example of your failing to do well at
anything. No one in his right mind would live on such a small little
cheap flimsy boat with a broken boom and **** bucket for a head unless
thats the best they could do.

You must be thinking about the world famous Capt. Neal. He was a fictional
character. I am Wilbur Hubbard and I sail an Allied Seawind 32 ketch.

Wilbur Hubbard

bob