Ferro Cement boats
 

My wife & I have been talking about moving onto a boat & sailing away for a long
time -- the biggest stumbling block to buying a boat the size we'd need for
liveaboard is $ -- we'd have to sell our house 1st & then buy the boat.

however, we happened upon a FC boat that we can afford w/o selling the house.

I've spent about a month reading about FC boats and it seems that there is a
common thread:
If the boat was home built -- run away
if the boat was professionally built - there's a very good chance it's solid as
hell.
The only way to truely "check" the construction is to cut away the hull &
examine the steel beneath.

The hull was professionally built in Canada -- and then "owner finished" the
interior. The standing rigging is overkill (bigger than needed, which is fine
with me); the running rigging needs some tlc here and there.

So now I'm looking for people that have had experiences with FC boats (good or
bad) to get an idea if we want to make the leap. We would be taking the boat
on shake down cruises for the next year while still working & sell the house;
once done -- sail off. So anyone with off shore sailing experience in an FC
boat -- I'm very interested to hear from you.

Thanks
-josh

Ferro Cement boats
 

Josh Assing wrote:
My wife & I have been talking about moving onto a boat & sailing away for a long
time -- the biggest stumbling block to buying a boat the size we'd need for
liveaboard is $ -- we'd have to sell our house 1st & then buy the boat.

however, we happened upon a FC boat that we can afford w/o selling the house.

I've spent about a month reading about FC boats and it seems that there is a
common thread:
If the boat was home built -- run away
if the boat was professionally built - there's a very good chance it's solid as
hell.
The only way to truely "check" the construction is to cut away the hull &
examine the steel beneath.

The hull was professionally built in Canada -- and then "owner finished" the
interior. The standing rigging is overkill (bigger than needed, which is fine
with me); the running rigging needs some tlc here and there.

So now I'm looking for people that have had experiences with FC boats (good or
bad) to get an idea if we want to make the leap. We would be taking the boat
on shake down cruises for the next year while still working & sell the house;
once done -- sail off. So anyone with off shore sailing experience in an FC
boat -- I'm very interested to hear from you.

Thanks
-josh


Just don't ground it! FC will grind away in a heartbeat, well, almost.
G

Ferro Cement boats
 

On Jul 19, 1:38 pm, Josh Assing wrote:
My wife & I have been talking about moving onto a boat & sailing away for a long
time -- the biggest stumbling block to buying a boat the size we'd need for
liveaboard is $ -- we'd have to sell our house 1st & then buy the boat.

however, we happened upon a FC boat that we can afford w/o selling the house.

I've spent about a month reading about FC boats and it seems that there is a
common thread:
If the boat was home built -- run away
if the boat was professionally built - there's a very good chance it's solid as
hell.
The only way to truely "check" the construction is to cut away the hull &
examine the steel beneath.


That depends on what you mean by "truely check." An industrial
ultrasound scanner will be able to survey the steel armature of a
ferrocement hull. A skilled operator will be able to spot any
thinning, corrosion, or broken welds.

I would definitely use a surveyor who was expert in ferrocement
construction... this will be expensive.

Consider the overall cost of ownership, I'm sure that ferrocement
boats look like a bargain on the market, but the overall boat market
is tanking and maybe you should think about whether or not you'll be
able to sell it *at all* in future years. If you plan to live aboard
the boat for the rest of your life, that's OK. But it seems to me that
there are many many attractive bargains in conventional fiberglass
boats right now.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Ferro Cement boats
 

You are on the right track here, but not necessarily with ferro cement.

You should not be putting more than about half of what you could scrape
together into the boat. You'll need the rests for repairs, upgrades, and
the unexpected. Not selling the house and renting it, or selling it and
putting the money away is sound thinking.

You are looking at a boat in the right price range if you can buy it without
selling the house. The price is cheap because the owner probably couldn't
give it away. Almost nobody wants these things and you'll probably have to
sail it uninsured. That doesn't mean an FC boat of the right design and
construction can't be a solid and seaworthy craft, just that the vast
majority of them effect the resale and insurance market.

Fibreglass boat prices (the real prices; not what you see in the ads) are so
depressed these days that you ought to be able to find a suitable boat for
about the same price. A huge part of the value of boats is the cosmetics.
The "owner finished" may be a big part of the cost equasion in the case of
this boat. Be sure you are comparing fiberglass boats of comparable finish
and systems and not just size.

I have a 32 foot boat ready and able to take me on some extended trips.
Moored right in front of the marina where my son works is a wooden Hereshoff
12 /12 daysailer that was purchased for four times what I could expect to
get for my boat in the presentmarket. Most of the cost of boats is surface
finish.

A good FC boat should be:

Fairly large since this makes the weight inefficiency less of a performance
issue.
Have good form stability (for the same reason) which generally means a
fairly traditional hull of a type originally intended for inside ballast.
Square welded mesh (run from chicken wire).
Professional construction.
NO rust showing anywhere. Rust expands. The slightest bleed means big
trouble.
Everything except hull comparable in quality and finish to any alternative
glass boats you are considering.
At his point in time, chances are overwhelming that, if the builder knew
what he was doing, he would have chosen a different material. Something to
think about.

Don't let this boat become the justification for doing somethign you can't
manage. Find at least a couple glass or steel boats you can manage and
would be happy with and see how low you can push the price. Don't worry,
that FC boat will still be there. As I said, nobody wants these things
unless they are uniformed dreamers.

"Strong as wood, light as steel."

--
Roger Long

--
Roger Long
"Josh Assing" wrote in message
...
My wife & I have been talking about moving onto a boat & sailing away for
a long
time -- the biggest stumbling block to buying a boat the size we'd need
for
liveaboard is $ -- we'd have to sell our house 1st & then buy the boat.

however, we happened upon a FC boat that we can afford w/o selling the
house.

I've spent about a month reading about FC boats and it seems that there is
a
common thread:
If the boat was home built -- run away
if the boat was professionally built - there's a very good chance it's
solid as
hell.
The only way to truely "check" the construction is to cut away the hull &
examine the steel beneath.

The hull was professionally built in Canada -- and then "owner finished"
the
interior. The standing rigging is overkill (bigger than needed, which is
fine
with me); the running rigging needs some tlc here and there.

So now I'm looking for people that have had experiences with FC boats
(good or
bad) to get an idea if we want to make the leap. We would be taking the
boat
on shake down cruises for the next year while still working & sell the
house;
once done -- sail off. So anyone with off shore sailing experience in an
FC
boat -- I'm very interested to hear from you.

Thanks
-josh

Ferro Cement boats
 

On Jul 19, 12:37*pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
...*As I said, nobody wants these things
unless they are uniformed dreamers.

"Strong as wood, light as steel." ...

I mostly agree with Roger on this, but I've seen several very good FC
boats in the New Zealand, Oz, Coral Sea area. So, there are some
exceptions to the rule that stone boats are unwanted. Still, even
with a good one with a good survey insurance will be hard to come by.
Insurance companies like to insure things that they can understand
statistically. In practice that means that if it isn't a grp
production monohull it's going to be a challenge to get coverage at
reasonable prices.

-- Tom.

Ferro Cement boats
 

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:38:01 -0700, Josh Assing
wrote:

My wife & I have been talking about moving onto a boat & sailing away for a long
time -- the biggest stumbling block to buying a boat the size we'd need for
liveaboard is $ -- we'd have to sell our house 1st & then buy the boat.

however, we happened upon a FC boat that we can afford w/o selling the house.

I've spent about a month reading about FC boats and it seems that there is a
common thread:
If the boat was home built -- run away
if the boat was professionally built - there's a very good chance it's solid as
hell.
The only way to truely "check" the construction is to cut away the hull &
examine the steel beneath.

The hull was professionally built in Canada -- and then "owner finished" the
interior. The standing rigging is overkill (bigger than needed, which is fine
with me); the running rigging needs some tlc here and there.

So now I'm looking for people that have had experiences with FC boats (good or
bad) to get an idea if we want to make the leap. We would be taking the boat
on shake down cruises for the next year while still working & sell the house;
once done -- sail off. So anyone with off shore sailing experience in an FC
boat -- I'm very interested to hear from you.

Thanks
-josh

Helped a good friend bring a professionally built 44 foot FC
pilothouse ketch from Jacksonville, Fl to Pensacola. He got rid of it
a few years later. Something to do with being unable to obtain
insurance. You need to check that out.

I'm told that if the hull has the proper frame and mesh reinforcement,
is continuously, once started, and monolithically constructed, it will
be sound. How to make sure that actually happened........?

Frank

Ferro Cement boats
 

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:38:01 -0700, Josh Assing
wrote:

My wife & I have been talking about moving onto a boat & sailing away for a long
time -- the biggest stumbling block to buying a boat the size we'd need for
liveaboard is $ -- we'd have to sell our house 1st & then buy the boat.

however, we happened upon a FC boat that we can afford w/o selling the house.

I've spent about a month reading about FC boats and it seems that there is a
common thread:
If the boat was home built -- run away
if the boat was professionally built - there's a very good chance it's solid as
hell.
The only way to truely "check" the construction is to cut away the hull &
examine the steel beneath.

The hull was professionally built in Canada -- and then "owner finished" the
interior. The standing rigging is overkill (bigger than needed, which is fine
with me); the running rigging needs some tlc here and there.

So now I'm looking for people that have had experiences with FC boats (good or
bad) to get an idea if we want to make the leap. We would be taking the boat
on shake down cruises for the next year while still working & sell the house;
once done -- sail off. So anyone with off shore sailing experience in an FC
boat -- I'm very interested to hear from you.

Thanks
-josh


I have a good friend who has a 55 ft. F.C. boat and his experience has
been:

The boat is heavy for it's size and requires more sail area then a
lighter boat. On the other hand it sails well when other boats are
reefing.

He hit a rock at about 7 knots and knocked a hole in the bottom. Said
things got sort of exciting there for a few minutes. Was able to beach
the boat and repaired the damage using some sort of "epoxy stuff" to
use his words. That was more then a year ago and no problems with the
repair to date.

The boat has a very low resale value. In his case he is 78 years old
and doesn't care, but you might.

Other comments:

If the boat has integral fuel tanks it is possible for the diesel to
soak through the hull. Have seen a couple of boats with that problem.

As regards to "sailing off". I would suggest that unless you have
"sailed off" before you do not sell the house for the first couple of
years - rent it. A large number of people lose enthusiasm for the
boating life style after a couple of years.






Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Ferro Cement boats
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:17:07 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:



As regards to "sailing off". I would suggest that unless you have
"sailed off" before you do not sell the house for the first couple of
years - rent it. A large number of people lose enthusiasm for the
boating life style after a couple of years.

Good advice. In considering moving to Florida we decided such
a plan best. Perhaps we will lose our enthusiasm for Florida.
A 2-year trial seems about right.

--Vic

Ferro Cement boats
 

Thanks Roger.

In our searches; most boats the size we want;we can't afford out of pocket.
I've looked at some "inexpensive" fiberglass boats; but they were so abused, I
could find soft spots & delamination in fairly importantspots.

this boat does need some help -- but we're not "jumping in and going" so my
though is that if the hull is solid - we can do the minor upgrades "over time"
so it won't be a huge burden.

The hull was professionally built -- only the inside was "owner finished" --
however, he looks like he was a damn fine craftsman as everything is very solid
and well fitting.

-josh

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:37:27 -0400, "Roger Long" wrote:

You are on the right track here, but not necessarily with ferro cement.

You should not be putting more than about half of what you could scrape
together into the boat. You'll need the rests for repairs, upgrades, and
the unexpected. Not selling the house and renting it, or selling it and
putting the money away is sound thinking.

You are looking at a boat in the right price range if you can buy it without
selling the house. The price is cheap because the owner probably couldn't
give it away. Almost nobody wants these things and you'll probably have to
sail it uninsured. That doesn't mean an FC boat of the right design and
construction can't be a solid and seaworthy craft, just that the vast
majority of them effect the resale and insurance market.

Fibreglass boat prices (the real prices; not what you see in the ads) are so
depressed these days that you ought to be able to find a suitable boat for
about the same price. A huge part of the value of boats is the cosmetics.
The "owner finished" may be a big part of the cost equasion in the case of
this boat. Be sure you are comparing fiberglass boats of comparable finish
and systems and not just size.

I have a 32 foot boat ready and able to take me on some extended trips.
Moored right in front of the marina where my son works is a wooden Hereshoff
12 /12 daysailer that was purchased for four times what I could expect to
get for my boat in the presentmarket. Most of the cost of boats is surface
finish.

A good FC boat should be:

Fairly large since this makes the weight inefficiency less of a performance
issue.
Have good form stability (for the same reason) which generally means a
fairly traditional hull of a type originally intended for inside ballast.
Square welded mesh (run from chicken wire).
Professional construction.
NO rust showing anywhere. Rust expands. The slightest bleed means big
trouble.
Everything except hull comparable in quality and finish to any alternative
glass boats you are considering.
At his point in time, chances are overwhelming that, if the builder knew
what he was doing, he would have chosen a different material. Something to
think about.

Don't let this boat become the justification for doing somethign you can't
manage. Find at least a couple glass or steel boats you can manage and
would be happy with and see how low you can push the price. Don't worry,
that FC boat will still be there. As I said, nobody wants these things
unless they are uniformed dreamers.

"Strong as wood, light as steel."

--
Roger Long

Ferro Cement boats
 

I mostly agree with Roger on this, but I've seen several very good FC
boats in the New Zealand, Oz, Coral Sea area. So, there are some
exceptions to the rule that stone boats are unwanted. Still, even
with a good one with a good survey insurance will be hard to come by.
Insurance companies like to insure things that they can understand
statistically. In practice that means that if it isn't a grp
production monohull it's going to be a challenge to get coverage at
reasonable prices.

I'm going to do a search for insurance -- since this will basically be "our
home" I don't want to go w/o insurance... that's a deal breaker for me.

Ferro Cement boats
 

He hit a rock at about 7 knots and knocked a hole in the bottom. Said

That does concern me -- as we hit a container about 40 miles off california
scared the **it out of us... we took on water; but the pumps were able to keep
up until we could make it to shore.... (good tag line I saw: "There is no
better bilge pump that a scared sailor with a bucket")

The boat has a very low resale value. In his case he is 78 years old
and doesn't care, but you might.

I've never owned a boat that I sold for more than I bought it for -- I don't
look at it as an investment...

If the boat has integral fuel tanks it is possible for the diesel to
soak through the hull. Have seen a couple of boats with that problem.

Good tip - -I'll be sure to look at the tank the enxt time I go out with the
surveyor. I'm sure he'll check that too.

As regards to "sailing off". I would suggest that unless you have
"sailed off" before you do not sell the house for the first couple of
years - rent it. A large number of people lose enthusiasm for the
boating life style after a couple of years.

I've been around boats all my life; been sailing in the ocean @ 14. (single
handed)

We just cannot afford to keep the house with only me working.. (I can work from
anywhere)

Ferro Cement boats
 

Remember also that you may have a difficult time documenting the vessel if
you can't get in touch with the builder(s). This may be important for
foreign voyages. Glass boats have records, hull numbers, etc. Be sure to
check this out as well.

If you send me some photos and info privately, I'll be glad to give you my
opinion.

Contact info he http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma

--
Roger Long

Ferro Cement boats
 

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:37:27 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

"Strong as wood, light as steel."

You are being unfair to steel. For openers, it has the same strength
to weight as aluminum which is often regarded as being lighter. If
strength is not really the issue and stiffness is, everything is
bulkier, which automatically means stiffer, than steel, for the same
strength. Steel is not heavy in a large enough vessel. I figure 1/8 or
inch plating and forty feet of length. Rather have aluminum, actually.
A forty foot powerboat, 1/4 inch thick. You want cleats to be as big
as possible, so that sharp corners don't abuse the line. This makes
aluminum more attractive than steel.

Casady

Ferro Cement boats
 

Thank you. 30 years designing metal boats and I guess I missed that tidbit
of information somewhere along the line:)

--
Roger Long

Ferro Cement boats
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:16:07 -0400, "Roger Long" wrote:

Remember also that you may have a difficult time documenting the vessel if
you can't get in touch with the builder(s). This may be important for
foreign voyages. Glass boats have records, hull numbers, etc. Be sure to
check this out as well.

GREAT ADVISE !!! Yes; this will be important.

Thank you
-josh

Ferro Cement boats
 

On Jul 20, 4:09*pm, Josh Assing wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:16:07 -0400, "Roger Long" wrote:
Remember also that you may have a difficult time documenting the vessel if
you can't get in touch with the builder(s). *This may be important for
foreign voyages. *Glass boats have records, hull numbers, etc. *Be sure to
check this out as well.

GREAT ADVISE !!! Yes; this will be important.

Thank you
-josh

I'm not sure I'd panic about the US Documentation. A lot of US boats
get by with state registrations on foreign voyages. The US doc is
nice because they'll mail you a renewal any time you ask so you can re-
up when you're in port, but AFIK, you can check in anywhere with the
state rego.

-- Tom.

Ferro Cement boats
 

wrote in message
...
On Jul 20, 4:09 pm, Josh Assing wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:16:07 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:
Remember also that you may have a difficult time documenting the vessel
if
you can't get in touch with the builder(s). This may be important for
foreign voyages. Glass boats have records, hull numbers, etc. Be sure to
check this out as well.

GREAT ADVISE !!! Yes; this will be important.

Thank you
-josh

I'm not sure I'd panic about the US Documentation. A lot of US boats
get by with state registrations on foreign voyages. The US doc is
nice because they'll mail you a renewal any time you ask so you can re-
up when you're in port, but AFIK, you can check in anywhere with the
state rego.

-- Tom.


You can get a waiver for a foreign made vessel for US Documentation. Last I
checked it was a one-time $500 fee.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ferro Cement boats
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:12:04 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jul 20, 4:09*pm, Josh Assing wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:16:07 -0400, "Roger Long" wrote:
Remember also that you may have a difficult time documenting the vessel if
you can't get in touch with the builder(s). *This may be important for
foreign voyages. *Glass boats have records, hull numbers, etc. *Be sure to
check this out as well.

GREAT ADVISE !!! Yes; this will be important.

Thank you
-josh

I'm not sure I'd panic about the US Documentation. A lot of US boats
get by with state registrations on foreign voyages. The US doc is
nice because they'll mail you a renewal any time you ask so you can re-
up when you're in port, but AFIK, you can check in anywhere with the
state rego.

-- Tom.


In Asia state registration papers are accepted in Thailand, Malaysia,
Singapore, East Malaysia, Brunai and the Philippines to my personal
knowledge.
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Ferro Cement boats
 

On Jul 20, 8:30*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
...
You can get a waiver for a foreign made vessel for US Documentation. Last I
checked it was a one-time $500 fee.

I had no problem getting my foreign built vessel Documented for non-
commercial use. I've forgotten what the fees were but I don't
remember any special ones for being overseas. Perhaps you are
thinking of a fee so that a foreign built boat can be used for "six-
pack" work or something.

-- Tom.

Ferro Cement boats
 

Yeah... that was what I was thinking... I use my Sabre for this, and I was
concerned about foreign made boats, which is one reason (though not the
primary reason) for picking what I have.

wrote in message
...
On Jul 20, 8:30 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
....
You can get a waiver for a foreign made vessel for US Documentation. Last
I
checked it was a one-time $500 fee.

I had no problem getting my foreign built vessel Documented for non-
commercial use. I've forgotten what the fees were but I don't
remember any special ones for being overseas. Perhaps you are
thinking of a fee so that a foreign built boat can be used for "six-
pack" work or something.

-- Tom.




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ferro Cement boats
 

Josh Assing wrote:
My wife & I have been talking about moving onto a boat & sailing away
for a long time -- the biggest stumbling block to buying a boat the
size we'd need for liveaboard is $ -- we'd have to sell our house 1st
& then buy the boat.

however, we happened upon a FC boat that we can afford w/o selling
the house.

I've spent about a month reading about FC boats and it seems that
there is a common thread:
If the boat was home built -- run away
if the boat was professionally built - there's a very good chance
it's solid as hell.
The only way to truely "check" the construction is to cut away the
hull & examine the steel beneath.

The hull was professionally built in Canada -- and then "owner
finished" the interior. The standing rigging is overkill (bigger
than needed, which is fine with me); the running rigging needs some
tlc here and there.

So now I'm looking for people that have had experiences with FC boats
(good or bad) to get an idea if we want to make the leap. We would
be taking the boat on shake down cruises for the next year while
still working & sell the house; once done -- sail off. So anyone
with off shore sailing experience in an FC boat -- I'm very
interested to hear from you.

Thanks
-josh

Hi Josh, here goes-

I have sailed for a few years on a 47-foot ferro-cement yawl owned by
Rolls-Royce, and built by their apprentices as a training excercise in the
mid-seventies.

"Merlin of Clyde" is, as you would expect, quite heavy for her size,
displacing around 23 tons, and I can tell you that she is a good boat to
keep out of the way of when racing, as one or two racing types have found
out to their cost in recent years!

She has been used for the past twelve years or more as a "team building
experience" for RR employees at all levels from senior management to
apprentices and students, and has sailed round Britain without mishap.

Built with utility rather than luxury in mind she was nevertheless extremely
well equipped above and below decks, and has been maintained regardless of
expense, naturally, since she carries the flag of one of the world's leading
engineering companies. She sleeps 10, in 2 cabins.

My own opinion, gained from the experience of sailing other types of boat,
mostly fibreglass constructed, is that if the boat has a pedigree such as
Merlin's, you need have no fear of ferro-cement being an inferior material,
but do be careful, as many of these hulls were constructed during a period
when the price of oil-related products such a resin was rocketing skywards,
and many of them were built in backyards and on waste ground out-of-doors,
by amateurs.

As a live-aboard, ferro-cement can be a sound enough investment, though
annual maintenance is probably double that of a similarly-sized fibreglass
yacht, but then the initial outlay should be considerably less. You also
need a much more powerful engine to push this mass thru the water. "Merlin"
has a 160hp Volvo and makes around 7 knots in any sort of headwind.

Of her type, she looks simply superb when newly fitted out and launched,
having flawless topsides and smooth underwater hull.

I need hardly add that all ancillary equipment and sails have to be really
heavy, .particularly winches and related hardware.

BTW, "Merlin" is currently for sale by Clyde Marina, Ardrossan, phone (44)
1294 607077.

No, I have no financial interest in the yacht whatsoever!

Dennis.

Ferro Cement boats
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:16:07 -0400, "Roger Long" wrote:

Remember also that you may have a difficult time documenting the vessel if
you can't get in touch with the builder(s). This may be important for
foreign voyages. Glass boats have records, hull numbers, etc. Be sure to
check this out as well.

Boat's already documented... and was tested by labs when it was built to ensure
a good hull construction... I guess those are two good signs.

Ferro Cement boats
 

On 2008-07-20 15:59:59 -0400, Josh Assing said:

We just cannot afford to keep the house with only me working.. (I can work from
anywhere)

If you sell and invest diversely, you should still have enough to get a
new place in a cheaper area with lots left over (one of my possible
plans. We're in a high-rent district compared to where we'd like to
retire.)

And I'm with Roger: get an old fiberglass boat for half of what you can afford.

Additionally, you may not need as much boat as you think, if you
haven't actually walked the docks for a while.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Ferro Cement boats
 

Additionally, you may not need as much boat as you think, if you
haven't actually walked the docks for a while.

I live on an island and do dock duty down at the marina.

-josh

Ferro Cement boats
 

On 2008-07-23 12:13:41 -0400, Josh Assing said:

Additionally, you may not need as much boat as you think, if you
haven't actually walked the docks for a while.

I live on an island and do dock duty down at the marina.

-josh

Then you're in better shape than most anyone -- if you can get aboard
and 'try them for size' with your wife. Simply seeing isn't the same as
going through the motions of everyday life. There are some gorgeous
boats that we found serious drawbacks with when we did that.

BTW, Our assessment agrees with yours as to size. 38' seems to be a
sweet spot for having two "work" spaces, but we did find a 34 that
beats most shorter than 40' for our purposes.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/