the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

Happy 4th of July. For the first time in almost 20 years, I will not
be on the Charles River in Boston to see the fireworks. My boat is in
the shop. Here is what happened. Several weeks ago, while I was
putting around the harbor, the engine started sucking in salt water. I
got towed in and had my mechanic/shop, which I have used since I owned
the boat, look at the boat right away. Compression check revealed all
cylinders were OK. They hauled the 1993 25ft four winns out and
cleaned out the gunk. 2 weeks later, the told me I needed to replace
both the risers and manifolds. Which they did. They tested the boat
yesterday to discover that they had been wrong. it was not the risers
or manifolds and now we are back at square one. My question is: What
does the boat owner pay for and what does the shop have to eat in this
situation. Should I pay for the new risers and manifolds? The mechanic
says they can put the old ones back. This boat is old and we do not
want to put more money into it than we have to. Keeping in mind that
we are not able to do any of the work ourselves, what would you do?

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:55:28 -0700 (PDT), richard
wrote:

Happy 4th of July. For the first time in almost 20 years, I will not
be on the Charles River in Boston to see the fireworks. My boat is in
the shop. Here is what happened. Several weeks ago, while I was
putting around the harbor, the engine started sucking in salt water. I
got towed in and had my mechanic/shop, which I have used since I owned
the boat, look at the boat right away. Compression check revealed all
cylinders were OK. They hauled the 1993 25ft four winns out and
cleaned out the gunk. 2 weeks later, the told me I needed to replace
both the risers and manifolds. Which they did. They tested the boat
yesterday to discover that they had been wrong. it was not the risers
or manifolds and now we are back at square one. My question is: What
does the boat owner pay for and what does the shop have to eat in this
situation. Should I pay for the new risers and manifolds? The mechanic
says they can put the old ones back. This boat is old and we do not
want to put more money into it than we have to. Keeping in mind that
we are not able to do any of the work ourselves, what would you do?

15 years with a sal****er cooled engine is a long time. It is getting
to the end of its useful life and rusting from the inside out. I went
through this with my old runabout several years ago and ended up
wasting quite a bit of money. If the boat itself is in reasonably
good condition and you want to keep it, the best strategy is to
install a rebuilt engine that is offered with some sort of warranty,
typically 12 months.

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

In article ,
richard wrote:
Happy 4th of July. For the first time in almost 20 years, I will not
be on the Charles River in Boston to see the fireworks. My boat is in
the shop. Here is what happened. Several weeks ago, while I was
putting around the harbor, the engine started sucking in salt water. I
got towed in and had my mechanic/shop, which I have used since I owned
the boat, look at the boat right away. Compression check revealed all
cylinders were OK. They hauled the 1993 25ft four winns out and
cleaned out the gunk. 2 weeks later, the told me I needed to replace
both the risers and manifolds. Which they did. They tested the boat
yesterday to discover that they had been wrong. it was not the risers
or manifolds and now we are back at square one. My question is: What
does the boat owner pay for and what does the shop have to eat in this
situation. Should I pay for the new risers and manifolds? The mechanic
says they can put the old ones back. This boat is old and we do not
want to put more money into it than we have to. Keeping in mind that
we are not able to do any of the work ourselves, what would you do?

I've had similar situations happen over the years with cars, but I think the same principle applies. The yard should do the labor for free, but the parts should probably be yours. If they are able to replace the new parts with the old without degrading the over all condition, then I would have them do that. You should pay for the new parts but not the labor, since you were inconvenienced. I would take the attitude of trying to work it out so no one feels screwed over. If they want your business and your friends' business going forward, then they'll be willing to work with you. Mistakes happen, and neither party should have to pay through the nose.

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:05:06 -0500, lid (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote:

In article ,
richard wrote:
Happy 4th of July. For the first time in almost 20 years, I will not
be on the Charles River in Boston to see the fireworks. My boat is in
the shop. Here is what happened. Several weeks ago, while I was
putting around the harbor, the engine started sucking in salt water. I
got towed in and had my mechanic/shop, which I have used since I owned
the boat, look at the boat right away. Compression check revealed all
cylinders were OK. They hauled the 1993 25ft four winns out and
cleaned out the gunk. 2 weeks later, the told me I needed to replace
both the risers and manifolds. Which they did. They tested the boat
yesterday to discover that they had been wrong. it was not the risers
or manifolds and now we are back at square one. My question is: What
does the boat owner pay for and what does the shop have to eat in this
situation. Should I pay for the new risers and manifolds? The mechanic
says they can put the old ones back. This boat is old and we do not
want to put more money into it than we have to. Keeping in mind that
we are not able to do any of the work ourselves, what would you do?

I've had similar situations happen over the years with cars, but I think the same principle applies. The yard should do the labor for free, but the parts should probably be yours. If they are able to replace the new parts with the old without degrading the over all condition, then I would have them do that. You should pay for the new parts but not the labor, since you were inconvenienced. I would take the attitude of trying to work it out so no one feels screwed over. If they want your business and your friends' business going forward, then they'll be willing to work with you. Mistakes happen, and neither party should have to pay through the nose.

I guess you're unaware of it, but your posts aren't wrapping lines.
Or should I say "line?"

--Vic

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

In article ,
Vic Smith wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:05:06 -0500, lid (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote:

In article ,
richard wrote:
Happy 4th of July. For the first time in almost 20 years, I will not
be on the Charles River in Boston to see the fireworks. My boat is in
the shop. Here is what happened. Several weeks ago, while I was
putting around the harbor, the engine started sucking in salt water. I
got towed in and had my mechanic/shop, which I have used since I owned
the boat, look at the boat right away. Compression check revealed all
cylinders were OK. They hauled the 1993 25ft four winns out and
cleaned out the gunk. 2 weeks later, the told me I needed to replace
both the risers and manifolds. Which they did. They tested the boat
yesterday to discover that they had been wrong. it was not the risers
or manifolds and now we are back at square one. My question is: What
does the boat owner pay for and what does the shop have to eat in this
situation. Should I pay for the new risers and manifolds? The mechanic
says they can put the old ones back. This boat is old and we do not
want to put more money into it than we have to. Keeping in mind that
we are not able to do any of the work ourselves, what would you do?

I've had similar situations happen over the years with cars, but I think the same principle
applies. The yard should do the labor for free, but the parts should probably be yours. If
they are able to replace the new parts with the old without degrading the over all
condition, then I would have them do that. You should pay for the new parts but not the
labor, since you were inconvenienced. I would take the attitude of trying to work it out so
no one feels screwed over. If they want your business and your friends' business going
forward, then they'll be willing to work with you. Mistakes happen, and neither party should
have to pay through the nose.

I guess you're unaware of it, but your posts aren't wrapping lines.
Or should I say "line?"

Thanks for reminding me... I'm using an old-style shell-based and I keep
forgetting to press return.

J

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

In article ,
wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:08:16 -0500, lid (Jonathan Ganz) wrote:

Thanks for reminding me... I'm using an old-style shell-based and I keep
forgetting to press return.

J

It doesn't even have some arcane way of setting "lines:80" ?

Probably... I only use it when out of town.

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:55:28 -0700 (PDT), richard
wrote:

Happy 4th of July. For the first time in almost 20 years, I will not
be on the Charles River in Boston to see the fireworks. My boat is in
the shop. Here is what happened. Several weeks ago, while I was
putting around the harbor, the engine started sucking in salt water. I
got towed in and had my mechanic/shop, which I have used since I owned
the boat, look at the boat right away. Compression check revealed all
cylinders were OK. They hauled the 1993 25ft four winns out and
cleaned out the gunk. 2 weeks later, the told me I needed to replace
both the risers and manifolds. Which they did. They tested the boat
yesterday to discover that they had been wrong. it was not the risers
or manifolds and now we are back at square one. My question is: What
does the boat owner pay for and what does the shop have to eat in this
situation. Should I pay for the new risers and manifolds? The mechanic
says they can put the old ones back. This boat is old and we do not
want to put more money into it than we have to. Keeping in mind that
we are not able to do any of the work ourselves, what would you do?

How old are the risers and manifolds? If they're over seven years old, used
in salt water, I'd leave the new ones alone. I had one plug at the eight
year mark. Not a fun way to enjoy the day.

Wayne made a good point also, as far as putting in a rebuild.

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

Richard,

Somewhere in this process you probably signed some sort of written
contract, perhaps called a work order. There's probably some langauge in
that contract about warranties. My guess is that you are liable for the cost
of the parts and labor to install the risers and manifolds and they are
obligated to deliver to you a working boat. If they blew the diagnosis then
they should eat extra cost to make your boat run.

Dave M.

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

thanks everyone for the good insights and suggestions
I have had a long relationship with this dealer/service place and I
wanted to get some others opinion before I deal with them this week.
let's hope that it comes to pass that both parties end up OK and most
importantly, the boat gets fixed.

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

On 2008-07-04 13:26:21 -0400, Vic Smith said:

I've had similar situations happen over the years with cars, but I
think the same principle applies. The yard should do the labor for
free, but the parts should probably be yours. If they are able to
replace the new parts with the old without degrading the over all
condition, then I would have them do that. You should pay for the new
parts but not the labor, since you were inconvenienced. I would take
the attitude of trying to work it out so no one feels screwed over. If
they want your business and your friends' business going forward, then
they'll be willing to work with you. Mistakes happen, and neither party
should have to pay through the nose.

I guess you're unaware of it, but your posts aren't wrapping lines.
Or should I say "line?"

?? My reader auto-wraps at the right margin, pretty much what I expect
these days.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:200807080103568930-jerelull@maccom...
On 2008-07-04 13:26:21 -0400, Vic Smith
said:

I've had similar situations happen over the years with cars, but I think
the same principle applies. The yard should do the labor for free, but
the parts should probably be yours. If they are able to replace the new
parts with the old without degrading the over all condition, then I
would have them do that. You should pay for the new parts but not the
labor, since you were inconvenienced. I would take the attitude of
trying to work it out so no one feels screwed over. If they want your
business and your friends' business going forward, then they'll be
willing to work with you. Mistakes happen, and neither party should have
to pay through the nose.

I guess you're unaware of it, but your posts aren't wrapping lines.
Or should I say "line?"

?? My reader auto-wraps at the right margin, pretty much what I expect
these days.



Mine does also, which is why I didn't see it. But, some don't. Mia culpa for
not being sensitive to backward compatibility issues.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 05:03:55 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-07-04 13:26:21 -0400, Vic Smith said:


I guess you're unaware of it, but your posts aren't wrapping lines.
Or should I say "line?"

?? My reader auto-wraps at the right margin, pretty much what I expect
these days.

Since you mentioned it, I quickly found a word wrap option to check in
the message drop down of my reader, Agent.
I've only been using it about 15 years, so I guess I'm slow on
navigating the learning curve.
Anyway, I hardly ever see an unwrapped post.
Guess I won't see any now.

--Vic

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

Dave,

Not likely as to any obligation to deliver a working boat.

Perhaps, but he needs to read his contract. It should contain some sort
of warranty info.

Dave M.

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

I have worked with these guys for many years and we do not have a
written contract. they hauled the boat and said they would look at it.
2 weeks later they said needs new minifolds and risers. I said OK.
they did that and tested it again and the engine filled with water
again. it was not the risers and manifolds. Since then they have
eliminated the exhaust intake as well. at this point they are not sure
what the problem is and are recomending a new engine. If I decide that
I don't want a new engine (let's say the boat is not worth the
investment) how much should I owe to the boat yard and what does one
do with a boat with an engine in pieces?

thanks
PS jonesing for a boat ride, I took my digny out this morning-very nice

the shop messed up. who should pay?
 

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 06:41:02 -0700 (PDT), richard
wrote:

at this point they are not sure
what the problem is and are recomending a new engine.

A new engine is not usually cost effective on an older boat but a
rebuilt short block is probably within reach - maybe $5K or so with
installation.

It's possible that your heads are rusted out however and may need to
be replaced. That would dictate a rebuilt long block which will cost
somewhat more.