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Aggies Lost at Sea?
Let's hope they are in the raft.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5825012.html By JENNIFER LEAHY Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle "A sailboat participating in the Regata de Amigos race from Galveston to Veracruz was found capsized 11 miles south of Matagorda Saturday morning. All six aboard the 38-foot sailboat Cynthia Woods, a Cape Fear 38R, are missing. The missing are four students from Texas A&M-Galveston and two university staff members, the school said. "All aboard are experienced mariners and two are safety instructors," said U.S. Coast Guard Petty Officer Renee C. Aiello, who noted that there was an inflatable raft on the sailboat. Participants in the Regata de Amigos, a 630-nautical mile race, left Galveston on Friday at about 2 p.m. The Coast Guard received a phone call at 8:15 Saturday morning from the emergency contact for the sailboat who said they lost communication with the sailboat at approximately midnight. The sailboat also missed its 8 a.m. radio check. A Falcon jet crew located the empty sailboat and a search is under way for the six missing people." Fred |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 7, 10:38*pm, wrote:
Let's hope they are in the raft. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5825012.html By JENNIFER LEAHY Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle "A sailboat participating in the Regata de Amigos race from Galveston to Veracruz was found capsized 11 miles south of Matagorda Saturday morning. All six aboard the 38-foot sailboat Cynthia Woods, a Cape Fear 38R, are missing. The missing are four students from Texas A&M-Galveston and two university staff members, the school said. "All aboard are experienced mariners and two are safety instructors," said U.S. Coast Guard Petty Officer Renee C. Aiello, who noted that there was an inflatable raft on the sailboat. Participants in the Regata de Amigos, a 630-nautical mile race, left Galveston on Friday at about 2 p.m. The Coast Guard received a phone call at 8:15 Saturday morning from the emergency contact for the sailboat who said they lost communication with the sailboat at approximately midnight. The sailboat also missed its 8 a.m. radio check. A Falcon jet crew located the empty sailboat and a search is under way for the six missing people." Fred BTW,,,,What is with the USCG in Texas, are the puddle sailors on Texas based cutters PUSSIES? 3-5 foot seas and 18 knot winds????? Had to turn around? WTF? After what happened to Joe's boat Red Cloud, and then reading this I think so. Or is it the 24 billion dollar budget did not allow for diesel fuel on cutters? http://galvestondailynews.com/story....334f8315862af3 The Coast Guard station at Freeport dispatched a rescue boat but it had to returned because of bad weather. The Coast Guard air station at Corpus Christi launched a Falcon jet, and the cutter Manowar was also dispatched to assist in the search. The Coast Guard may call in a fixed-wing C-130 aircraft to assist in the search. Seas were running 3 to 5 feet near the boat and winds were in the 15- to 18-knot range Saturday night, said Jim Atchley head coach of the sailing team. Fred |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
Texans are the sorriest bunch going. The Aggies are the worst. If the aren't
out sinking boats they are stacking up huge piles of logs and getting killed. For the most part Texans are fat, ignorant and not very educated. Their personal hygiene is less than satisfactory, they drive big gas guzzling cars and eat too much meat. Texas is like some foriegn country. The US should build a wall around Texas. |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 02:50:11 -1000, Bill Wahl wrote:
snip another dumbass pulls his finger out of his nose for a second... *plonk* in ya go bonehead |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:38:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
"A sailboat participating in the Regata de Amigos race from Galveston to Veracruz was found capsized 11 miles south of Matagorda Saturday morning. Amazing thing is that it didn't sink. I am sure it would have, had there been much in the way of waves. Casady |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 8, 11:40 am, (Richard Casady)
wrote: On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:38:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote: "A sailboat participating in the Regata de Amigos race from Galveston to Veracruz was found capsized 11 miles south of Matagorda Saturday morning. Amazing thing is that it didn't sink. I am sure it would have, had there been much in the way of waves. Casady A multihull sailor might logically conclude from this and numerous other examples that keel boats are dangerous.......... |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
"Bruce in alaska" wrote in message
... In article , wrote: BTW,,,,What is with the USCG in Texas, are the puddle sailors on Texas based cutters PUSSIES? 3-5 foot seas and 18 knot winds????? Had to turn around? WTF? After what happened to Joe's boat Red Cloud, and then reading this I think so. Or is it the 24 billion dollar budget did not allow for diesel fuel on cutters? http://galvestondailynews.com/story....334f8315862af3 The Coast Guard station at Freeport dispatched a rescue boat but it had to returned because of bad weather. The Coast Guard air station at Corpus Christi launched a Falcon jet, and the cutter Manowar was also dispatched to assist in the search. The Coast Guard may call in a fixed-wing C-130 aircraft to assist in the search. Seas were running 3 to 5 feet near the boat and winds were in the 15- to 18-knot range Saturday night, said Jim Atchley head coach of the sailing team. Fred Must be a USCG Training Base for SAR or something. Up here in Alaska, those conditions are called "FLAT CALM".... We don't even broadcast Wx Alerts till the Winds are over 40 KPH, or the Seas are bigger than 10 Ft. Double that for the Bering Sea..... Gulf Coast Sailers must be pussies, wossies, or some sort of Limp Wristed Mammals..... -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply Not quite so for here, but nearly... if there's no Small Craft Advisory on the bay, hardly anyone is sailing. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 8, 8:50*am, "Bill Wahl" wrote:
Texans are the sorriest bunch going. The Aggies are the worst. If the aren't out sinking boats they are stacking up huge piles of logs and getting killed. For the most part Texans are fat, ignorant and not very educated. Their personal hygiene is less than satisfactory, they drive big gas guzzling cars and eat too much meat. Texas is like some foriegn country. The US should build a wall around Texas. Wahlly world: Good idea. The wall would keep the mexicans and assholes like you out. |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On 2008-06-08 07:20:37 -0400, "Roger Long" said:
There are a lot of problems with interenal encapsulated ballast keels but I sure appreciate not worrying about 38 year old keel bolts when I'm out in the dark. Funny, but I worry more about fiberglass keels than our cast iron one with 35 year-old bolts. I *can* pull the bolts and see their condition, replace them when necessary. The guy next to me this spring has a fiberglass keel. It's still draining as he tries to figure out where the water came in. If it's below the waterline, he could sink. I had a bunch of rust to bang off, the worst it's been for 16 springs. I should have filled the resulting voids but chose to spot-treat with POR-15 and consider getting it sandblasted next fall. Those minor pocks don't disturb our ability to float. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On 2008-06-08 13:35:54 -0400, Bruce in alaska said:
Must be a USCG Training Base for SAR or something. Up here in Alaska, those conditions are called "FLAT CALM".... We don't even broadcast Wx Alerts till the Winds are over 40 KPH, or the Seas are bigger than 10 Ft. Double that for the Bering Sea..... Gulf Coast Sailers must be pussies, wossies, or some sort of Limp Wristed Mammals..... Local conditions matter greatly. I've enjoyed romps in the Atlantic in 6-8' waves over 8' swells, some of the greatest sailing I've experienced, but anything over 3' on the Chesapeake can be life-threatening where the depth is in the 8-12' range. Those waves are steep and come in rapidly with significant force. "Washing Machine" starts describing the conditions, but until you've experienced them, you really can't understand. Sailors who have survived hurricanes at sea have been seriously spooked by our fairly-usual summer squall lines. Luckily, they're usually short duration, under an hour, but during that time, you're under extreme conditions that will stress the most prepared and professional sailors. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
I certainly wish them well. The sea is a dangerous place. Sounds like the
keel ballast fell off, if they found the boat upside down. Perhap another example of stainless used incorrectly? Steve wrote in message ... Let's hope they are in the raft. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5825012.html By JENNIFER LEAHY Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle "A sailboat participating in the Regata de Amigos race from Galveston to Veracruz was found capsized 11 miles south of Matagorda Saturday morning. All six aboard the 38-foot sailboat Cynthia Woods, a Cape Fear 38R, are missing. The missing are four students from Texas A&M-Galveston and two university staff members, the school said. "All aboard are experienced mariners and two are safety instructors," said U.S. Coast Guard Petty Officer Renee C. Aiello, who noted that there was an inflatable raft on the sailboat. Participants in the Regata de Amigos, a 630-nautical mile race, left Galveston on Friday at about 2 p.m. The Coast Guard received a phone call at 8:15 Saturday morning from the emergency contact for the sailboat who said they lost communication with the sailboat at approximately midnight. The sailboat also missed its 8 a.m. radio check. A Falcon jet crew located the empty sailboat and a search is under way for the six missing people." Fred |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
"Scott Sexton" wrote
Send out some prayers/good thoughts, they'll need them. "Roger Long" wrote: They sure will. If the later information that the boat lost its keel is correct, the prognosis is very grim. Keel failure is the worst case scenario, as sudden, unpredictable, and difficult to manage as a wing breaking off an aircraft. This was an almost-new boat. IIRC it is ~2 years old and donated to the university sailing program last year. There are a lot of problems with interenal encapsulated ballast keels but I sure appreciate not worrying about 38 year old keel bolts when I'm out in the dark. 38 YO keel bolats can be pulled & replaced. Have you considered adding a layer or two of glass over you keel, especially around the more- highly-stressed garboard area? Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
"Roger Long" wrote:
I don't have keel bolts. Yes, I gathered that when you said you had an encapsulated keel ;) ... My ballast is encapsulated (see my post on encapsulation). I did My suggestion that "38 year old keel bolts can be replaced" was a suggestion that it is needless to worry about keelbolts even if you have them. Yes keel bolts can be replaced and should be. If they are replaced because X-ray shows that they are necked down and need replacement, there is a good chance they will break off at the keel/hull joint and then you'll be faced with drilling new ones. Yep. Is major PITA ... The best tactic is to replace them frequently while sound enough to be pulled but almost no one does that. Stainless steel keel bolts are death. How about Monel? Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:10:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
.... Stainless steel keel bolts are death. How about Monel? Fresh Breezes- Doug King Durable, if you can pay the $$$s Brian W |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
"Richard Casady" wrote in message ... On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:38:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote: "A sailboat participating in the Regata de Amigos race from Galveston to Veracruz was found capsized 11 miles south of Matagorda Saturday morning. Amazing thing is that it didn't sink. I am sure it would have, had there been much in the way of waves. Casady A yacht called Moquini, a Fast 42, lost its keel just south of Madagascar a couple of years ago. It was found several months later about 500 nm off the South African coast. Uupside down with a huge hole where the keel had dropped off, but very much afloat. It had drifted about 800 nm. Sadly, the crew was never found. http://www.sailr.com/news35939.html J |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 10, 8:44*am, wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:19:44 -0400, "Roger Long" wrote: I can tell that you are not an engineer. *Are you familiar with those pictures of stainless steel shafts that have had a rubber band put around them and immersed in salt water? *That's what can happen at the keel hull joint if it is not kept watertight and there is no joint on a boat harder to keep tight. Do you have any good tips on how to keep the dust bunnies out of my bilge? If I could keep out the dust bunnies, I'd feel more comfortable about storing fresh bread wrapped in a paper napkin down there. Just out of curiosity, what kind of boat are we talking about here? *I haven't seen many bolted keel installations with structural glass backup. I don't think of the epoxy/glass as "backup". It was also not original to the boat when manufactured. The keel is held on three ways. There are 6 bolts. The keel is bonded to the stub with 3m5200, and the outside is wrapped and epoxied. You can remove the bolts and the fiberglass and still have a very hard time removing the keel. I tend to think of all three elements as backup for each other. No single one alone would be enough to satisfy me that it was secure. If it really is structural as you say, stainless steel bolts would be OK but there would also be no reason not to use plain double dipped galvanized with cast iron or bronze with lead. They used what they used. Who knows why... BTW, I have nothing against bolted keels and have designed a few myself. I'd probably use a bolted keel if built a new boat for myself. * But, but... You said they were DEATH! When buying a 28 year old boat with a poorly documented maintenance history like I did, it's nice to have encapsulated ballast. You are right that keel failures are rare but few people drive their boats hard. Here's an email to someone about how my wife and I spent this past Sunday afternoon: We had quite an adventure yesterday (6/8/2008)on the Long Island Sound. We got caught out in a line of severe thunder storms. Boat got knocked down twice while under bare poles. From the time we saw the threatening line on the horizon, to when it hit us was less than a half hour. I knew what I was looking at, and wasted no time getting as prepared as possible. We immediately doused sails, donned PFD's, clipped on, and secured everything possible. We were too far out to make it into any port. Once it hit, trying to get into anywhere for shelter would have been a deadly mistake. Horizontal rain so hard it burned as it hit. I couldn't see the GPS and RADAR just inches in front of my face. Wind gusts were in the 70+ mph range. Maybe higher. This was later confirmed by another sailor who encountered parts of the same storm 30 miles west of my position. His max windspeed reading was over 57 knots. My wife reported to me during a discussion afterwards that at one point she had the odd sensation of very hot air blowing on one shoulder and cold air blowing on the other at the same time. I'd guess that means we were experiencing wind sheer, and were directly in it. It takes an awful lot of wind power to knock this boat over sideways with no sails up. Whenever there was a slight diminishment, and I regained some steering ability, I headed straight out to give me more room for the periods when we were taken wherever the wind wanted us to go. VHF radio announcement by the CG that it was coming didn't commence until maybe a few minutes after the first rain had already hit us. They were also way off about how hard the gusts were inside the cells. It was actually a string of cells. We encountered two of them, the second being worse than the first. That's when we got knocked down. There was no way to escape them at 5 knots. I could see them clearly on the RADAR. They came rolling up the Sound like that famous stone ball in Indiana Jones, except there was a bunch of them. One person was killed by lightning and several injured on a beach just a few miles northeast of our position at Hammonassett Beach. They were under a pavilion. Heard panicked pan-pans and maydays on the radio during lulls when I could hear it at all. Haven't seen any reports yet of boats sinking or on the rocks, but it wouldn't surprise me. Some small boats may not be reported missing until someone on land realizes they didn't show up for work or whatever. In over 45 years of sailing on the LIS, I've been caught in some bad weather before, but this was exceptional. Taking half a day off today to go down, dry out the sails better, and and straighten out the boat. Racing boats usually become uncompeditive long before keel bolts reach a critical age. *When you sail hard, as I do, the rig is enough to worry about. *Not having to think about keel bolts, even not a statistically significant worry, just makes watching the boat working hard a bit more enjoyable. I apparently stress test my boat occasionally as well. :') Keel bolts was something I didn't worry about at all. Nice story salty, thanks for sharing. What were sea conditions like? Fred |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 10, 4:19 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
.... You are right that keel failures are rare but few people drive their boats hard. Racing boats usually become uncompeditive long before keel bolts reach a critical age. When you sail hard, as I do, the rig is enough to worry about. ... Well, folks have been bolting ballast to the outside of keels on a regular basis since like the 19th century. Many boats with external ballast have been driven very hard even in their old age. The retired IOR racer is a popular class of cruising boat on the Pacific circuit. Bolt on fin keels are the norm for them. Folks run them aground, sail them in the Souther Ocean and the like. You sail your boat hard, but trust me, lots of other folks sail their boats at least as hard and put many more hours on them. For instance, I recently got an note from a couple who are heading back up to the islands after their seventh trip to Tasmania (that's 14 crossings of the Bass Straight). They've been cruising their old IOR warhorse hard in tough conditions many weeks a year for 20 plus years. They're both ex-racers and they always push pretty hard. It just so happens that they are friends of mine so I'm aware of what they do, but there are hundreds of other folks out there quietly doing similarly hard sailing. AFIK, catastrophic keel bolt failure is very rare. I know of many more rig failures and injuries and deaths resulting from them than keel failures. Not having to think about keel bolts, even not a statistically significant worry, just makes watching the boat working hard a bit more enjoyable. Which is cool. But it's kind of like saying, "I wont drive a front wheel drive car because CV joints are prone to failure and I don't want to have to worry about that..." That's aesthetics not risk analysis. -- Tom. |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 10, 5:26 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
.... ... I seen enough "easy riders" that I'm sure it skews the keel failure statistics to the point that they are not a true reflection of the fleet wide state of keel bolts. ... Fair enough. I don't know that anyone is keeping score and I'm not sure that the population of keel bolt failures is big enough to produce meaningful statistics any case. Unless you are in the insurance business, it's only the condition of the bolts of the boat you are on that are important. ... Hmmm... I can't agree with that, but for sure the only one's you're likely to be able to do anything about are your own. -- Tom. |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:39:40 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote: The oxygen in this region of stagnant water was not replenished fast enough to keep the surface of the stainless intact and crevice corrosion started. I have a text published by Babcock and Wilcox titled 'Steam'. I got the impression reading it that boiler water should be oxygen free. The things are made of plain carbon steel. Casady |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
In article , John Seager wrote:
"Richard Casady" wrote in message ... On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:38:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote: "A sailboat participating in the Regata de Amigos race from Galveston to Veracruz was found capsized 11 miles south of Matagorda Saturday morning. Amazing thing is that it didn't sink. I am sure it would have, had there been much in the way of waves. Casady A yacht called Moquini, a Fast 42, lost its keel just south of Madagascar a couple of years ago. It was found several months later about 500 nm off the South African coast. Uupside down with a huge hole where the keel had dropped off, but very much afloat. It had drifted about 800 nm. Sadly, the crew was never found. http://www.sailr.com/news35939.html Very sad. We've all heard that you should always step up into a life-raft, and not down... but perhaps they didn't make it into the raft. In this situation, should you tie the raft to the up-turned boat? After all, the raft plus boat is more visible than raft alone. Or do you avoid the boat in case it sinks? Justin. -- Justin C, by the sea. |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
In article ,
Justin C wrote: In article , John Seager wrote: "Richard Casady" wrote in message ... On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:38:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote: "A sailboat participating in the Regata de Amigos race from Galveston to Veracruz was found capsized 11 miles south of Matagorda Saturday morning. Amazing thing is that it didn't sink. I am sure it would have, had there been much in the way of waves. Casady A yacht called Moquini, a Fast 42, lost its keel just south of Madagascar a couple of years ago. It was found several months later about 500 nm off the South African coast. Uupside down with a huge hole where the keel had dropped off, but very much afloat. It had drifted about 800 nm. Sadly, the crew was never found. http://www.sailr.com/news35939.html Very sad. We've all heard that you should always step up into a life-raft, and not down... but perhaps they didn't make it into the raft. In this situation, should you tie the raft to the up-turned boat? After all, the raft plus boat is more visible than raft alone. Or do you avoid the boat in case it sinks? Justin. It has ALWAYS been my Opinion that you tie the Liferaft to the vessel with a 50 meter line, and have a Survival Knife secured, and stowed, in the Raft to cut the line should the vessel sink. There have been MANY cases, where the vessel floated, after an incident, and was found, but it took a much longer time to find the Liferaft, with the survivors, that had drifted away. If no one makes it to the raft, and the vessel sinks, the raft will go with it, but you could deal with that issue, by using a Hydrostatic Release on vessel end of the line. -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 11, 2:52*pm, Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article , *Justin C wrote: In article , John Seager wrote: "Richard Casady" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:38:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote: "A sailboat participating in the Regata de Amigos race from Galveston to Veracruz was found capsized 11 miles south of Matagorda Saturday morning. Amazing thing is that it didn't sink. I am sure it would have, had there been much in the way of waves. Casady A yacht called Moquini, a Fast 42, lost its keel just south of Madagascar a couple of years ago. It was found several months later about 500 nm off the South African coast. Uupside down with a huge hole where the keel had dropped off, but very much afloat. It had drifted about 800 nm. Sadly, the crew was never found.http://www.sailr.com/news35939.html Very sad. We've all heard that you should always step up into a life-raft, and not down... but perhaps they didn't make it into the raft. In this situation, should you tie the raft to the up-turned boat? After all, the raft plus boat is more visible than raft alone. Or do you avoid the boat in case it sinks? * *Justin. It has ALWAYS been my Opinion that you tie the Liferaft to the vessel with a 50 meter line, and have a Survival Knife secured, and stowed, in the Raft to cut the line should the vessel sink. *There have been MANY cases, where the vessel floated, after an incident, and was found, but it took a much longer time to find the Liferaft, with the survivors, that had drifted away. If no one makes it to the raft, and the vessel sinks, the raft will go with it, but you could deal with that issue, by using a Hydrostatic Release on vessel end of the line. -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Also IIRC most liferafts have a weak link in the teather that should remain attached to the vessel, unless it sinks in which case the link will fail allowing the raft to float free. Fred |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 11, 11:58*am, wrote:
Also IIRC most liferafts have a weak link in the teather that should remain attached to the vessel, unless it sinks in which case the link will fail allowing the raft to float free. Fred My Dearest Fred: Since I know you are vastly more experinced and knowldegable my self I though I would paste some info for you regarding lifraft Painter/weak link/hydro static release. I konw you will read this carfully so you do not shame yourself again. By the way, as I am not that knowing what is "iirc?" Bob "....NVIC 4-8628 MAR 1986NAVIGATION AND VESSEL INSPECTION CIRCULAR NO. 4 86Electronic Version for Distribution Via the World Wide WebSubj: HYDRAULIC RELEASE UNITS FOR LIFERAFTS, LIFE FLOATS, AND BUOYANTAPPARATUS, AND ALTERNATE FLOAT-FREE ARRANGEMENTS1.PURPOSE. This Circular summarizes the requirements for installing, testing, and maintainingCoast Guard approved hydraulic release units used with liferafts, life floats, and buoyantapparatus. Alternate float-free arrangements not requiring hydraulic releases are also discussed. 2.DIRECTIVES AFFECTED. Navigation and Vessel Inspection Circular 7-69 is canceled, alongwith Changes 1, 2, and 3.3.DISCUSSION.a.General Description. Hydraulic release units (also referred to as hydrostatic release unitsor HRUs) are mechanical devices used as -links in the lashings securing liferafts, life floatsor buoyant apparatus to the deck of a vessel. If a vessel sinks before the crew canmanually launch the equipment, the pressure of the water operating on the HRUautomatically separates it into two parts. This action, at a depth of between 5 and 15 feet,disconnects the lashing and permits the unrestrained liferaft, life float or buoyantapparatus to rise to the surface by its own buoyancy.b.Alternate Float-Free Arrangements. An HRU is not necessary for satisfactory float-freeinstallation of an inflatable liferaft, life float, or buoyant apparatus. Enclosure (1) showsthe installation of a float-free inflatable liferaft in a crib made of removable loose-fittingstanchions and bars. The height of the enclosing stanchions will depend on the location ofthe raft on deck and its exposure to boarding seas. Enclosure (2) shows a stowage rack ingimbals for preventing a liferaft from being trapped if the vessel should capsize as it sinks.Apart from the details of the stowage rack, its location on deck must receive carefulconsideration, especially on vessels with low freeboards where green water washing overthe deck could result in the loss of the raft.c.Navy/Coast Guard HRUs. The first Coast Guard approved HURs evolved from designsmanufactured to a U.S. Navy specification, MIL-R-15041. Three of these stamped- metaldevices received approval, although the "Arrow" unit is no longer in production. Enclosure(3) includes details of these first HRUs, a table of their operating features, and details ofthe gripes for restraining the lifesaving device.(1)The Raftgo Model C is produced by Raftgo Hendry Co. (formerly C.J. HendryCo.) under Coast Guard approval numbers 160.062/1/0 through 160.062/1/4.Raftgo Model C releases may be used to secure a single liferaft, life float, orbuoyant apparatus, or multiple devices. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 2 Enclosure (1) to NVIC 4-861(2)The Arrow Model 404 was produced by Arrow Manufacturing Co. under CoastGuard approvals 160.062/210 and 160.062/2/1. The Switlik Model S-880 isessentially identical to the Arrow HRU, and is produced by Switlik Parachute Co.under approval number 160.062/3/0. Although these units are marked for acapacity of up to 3750 lbs., the gripe spring arrangement will deform under abuoyant load of around 1000 lbs. Therefore, Arrow and Switlik releases areapproved for single unit installation only. They must not be used to secure morethan one liferaft, life float, or buoyant apparatus, or the buoyant load may deformthe gripe spring arrangement.d.Painter-Securing HRUs. In Europe, painter-securing HRUs perform the three-part functionof (1) a full-strength securing point for the inboard end of the sea painter; (2) anattachment point for the float-free weak link on the same end of the sea painter; and (3) arelease point for one end of the strap restraining the lifesaving equipment. In contrast, theNavy/Coast Guard style devices shown on Enclosure (3) perform only the third of thesethree functions. Enclosure (4) shows how the painter-securing HRUs differ from theNavy/ Coast Guard type. Unproved versions of these devices are available in the U.S. foruninspected vessels, and there may soon be Coast Guard approved versions that can beused on inspected vessels...." |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 11, 11:58*am, wrote:
Fred Here is some more 4 ya fred hope you enjoy. there is a test on Friday: "...Painter-Securing HRUs. In Europe, painter-securing HRUs perform the three-part functionof (1) a full-strength securing point for the inboard end of the sea painter; (2) anattachment point for the float- free weak link on the same end of the sea painter; and (3) arelease point for one end of the strap restraining the lifesaving equipment. In contrast, theNavy/Coast Guard style devices shown on Enclosure (3) perform only the third of thesethree functions. Enclosure (4) shows how the painter-securing HRUs differ from theNavy/Coast Guard type. Unproved versions of these devices are available in the U.S. foruninspected vessels, and there may soon be Coast Guard approved versions that can beused on inspected vessels.e.Installation of Navy/ Coast Guard HRUs. Enclosure (5) shows the proper installation ofany one of the three HRUs discussed under paragraph 3-c. Variations of this arrangementmay be necessary to meet the specific features of different vessels, but all installationsshould conform to the following:(1)An HRU and its gripe assembly require a preload tension applied by a turnbuckleso that any movement of the HRU plunger, by either water pressure or manualforce, will separate the two halves of the device and free the gripe.(2)The correct installation of an HRU keeps it solely under tension loading with thedevice suspended between its end fittings. The HRU must not be subjected to sideloads or bending loads resulting from contact with the lifesaving device or anyother object. An HRU may fail to operate if it is forced into bending or contactwith a liferaft container as shown in Enclosure (6). (3)The release button on the end of the plunger must face away from the raft or otherdevice on the side from which it is approached, so that the release plunger isaccessible for manual operation.(4)The sea painter is secured to a float-free weak link which is in turn shackled to thedeck or strong point on the vessel. An inflatable liferaft comes equipped with itsown weak link. The weak link for a life float or buoyant apparatus must becertified to Coast Guard requirements --46 CFR 160.073-- as indicated on itsidentification tag. Note that the sea painter is not connected to the Navy/CoastGuard style HRU in any way. (5)The gripe assembly can be released by slackening the turnbuckle or by pushing inon the release plunger. If the lifesaving device is to be moved to a launchingstation, the painter should be led to the station directly in a straight line, over any -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 3 Enclosure (1) to NVIC 4-862obstructions. If this cannot be done, the painter and weak link should bedisconnected and rescued at an appropriate strong point near the launching station.(f)Installation of painter-Securing HRUs. Enclosure (7) shows the correct installation of apainter-securing HRU. Variations may be necessary to account for design differences, orto overcome specific installation problems on a particular vessel, but all installationsshould conform to the following:(1)painter-securing HRUs need to have a pelican hook in the gripe arrangement toprovide for manual release. The pelican hook must be located where it is readilyaccessible for manual release. A special tool provided with the HRU will also openit, but this tool is intended for maintenance and will not normally be stowed in aplace convenient to the HRU.(2)When they obtain Coast Guard approval, painter-securing HRUs will probably beequipped with gripe-tensioning springs. In any case, the gripe should be snug whenthe hook is closed and the gripe is assembled to the release.(3)The release is secured to the deck or to a bracket on a liferaft cradle intended forthis purpose. Like the Navy/ Coast Guard release, the painter-securing HRU mustnot contact a raft container or any other object that would impart a side load orbending load.(4)The sea painter is attached directly to the painter-securing '[RU by a link orshackle. Any weak link supplied with an inflatable liferaft on the inboard end of itspainter should be removed and discarded(5)In place of the discarded weak link discussed in Subparagraph 3-f(4), the HRUwill have its own weak link of 500 lbs. breaking strength. One end of the weak linkis attached to the deck either directly or through the part of the HRU attached tothe deck. The other end is attached to the link or shackle at the end of the painter.The link or shackle is attached to the HRU so that the weak link is not a loadcarrying part of the painter system until the release opens. Note especially that forinflatable liferafts the weak link used should be the one supplied with the releaseand of the 500 lb. strength as required for an inflatable liferaft. For life floats andbuoyant apparatus, the weak link must be one certified under 46 CFR 160.073 ofthe proper strength, and of a length that will work properly with the release.(6)The gripe assembly can be released by opening the pelican hook, or using thespecial tool to open the HRU. If the raft is to be moved to a launching station, thepainter should be led to it in an straight line, over any obstructions. A raft using apainter- securing '[RU should not normally be installed in a place where there is nodirect access to a launching station, since it is not possible to move the weak linkand painter to a new securing point, without having the special tool that opens theHRU..." |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 11, 4:45*pm, Bob wrote:
On Jun 11, 11:58*am, wrote: Also IIRC most liferafts have a weak link in the teather that should remain attached to the vessel, unless it sinks in which case the link will fail allowing the raft to float free. Fred My Dearest Fred: Since I know you are vastly more experinced and knowldegable my self I though I would paste some info for you regarding lifraft Painter/weak link/hydro static release. I konw you will read this carfully so you do not shame yourself again. By the way, as I am not that knowing what is "iirc?" Bob "....NVIC 4-8628 MAR 1986NAVIGATION AND VESSEL INSPECTION CIRCULAR NO. 4 86Electronic Version for Distribution Via the World Wide WebSubj: HYDRAULIC RELEASE UNITS FOR LIFERAFTS, LIFE FLOATS, AND BUOYANTAPPARATUS, AND ALTERNATE FLOAT-FREE ARRANGEMENTS1.PURPOSE. This Circular summarizes the requirements for installing, testing, and maintainingCoast Guard approved hydraulic release units used with liferafts, life floats, and buoyantapparatus. Alternate float-free arrangements not requiring hydraulic releases are also discussed. 2.DIRECTIVES AFFECTED. Navigation and Vessel Inspection Circular 7-69 is canceled, alongwith Changes 1, 2, and 3.3.DISCUSSION.a.General Description. Hydraulic release units (also referred to as hydrostatic release unitsor HRUs) are mechanical devices used as -links in the lashings securing liferafts, life floatsor buoyant apparatus to the deck of a vessel. If a vessel sinks before the crew canmanually launch the equipment, the pressure of the water operating on the HRUautomatically separates it into two parts. This action, at a depth of between 5 and 15 feet,disconnects the lashing and permits the unrestrained liferaft, life float or buoyantapparatus to rise to the surface by its own buoyancy.b.Alternate Float-Free Arrangements. An HRU is not necessary for satisfactory float-freeinstallation of an inflatable liferaft, life float, or buoyant apparatus. Enclosure (1) showsthe installation of a float-free inflatable liferaft in a crib made of removable loose-fittingstanchions and bars. The height of the enclosing stanchions will depend on the location ofthe raft on deck and its exposure to boarding seas. Enclosure (2) shows a stowage rack ingimbals for preventing a liferaft from being trapped if the vessel should capsize as it sinks.Apart from the details of the stowage rack, its location on deck must receive carefulconsideration, especially on vessels with low freeboards where green water washing overthe deck could result in the loss of the raft.c.Navy/Coast Guard HRUs. The first Coast Guard approved HURs evolved from designsmanufactured to a U.S. Navy specification, MIL-R-15041. Three of these stamped- metaldevices received approval, although the "Arrow" unit is no longer in production. Enclosure(3) includes details of these first HRUs, a table of their operating features, and details ofthe gripes for restraining the lifesaving device.(1)The Raftgo Model C is produced by Raftgo Hendry Co. (formerly C.J. HendryCo.) under Coast Guard approval numbers 160.062/1/0 through 160.062/1/4.Raftgo Model C releases may be used to secure a single liferaft, life float, orbuoyant apparatus, or multiple devices. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----- Page 2 Enclosure (1) to NVIC 4-861(2)The Arrow Model 404 was produced by Arrow Manufacturing Co. under CoastGuard approvals 160.062/210 and 160.062/2/1. The Switlik Model S-880 isessentially identical to the Arrow HRU, and is produced by Switlik Parachute Co.under approval number 160.062/3/0. Although these units are marked for acapacity of up to 3750 lbs., the gripe spring arrangement will deform under abuoyant load of around 1000 lbs. Therefore, Arrow and Switlik releases areapproved for single unit installation only. They must not be used to secure morethan one liferaft, life float, or buoyant apparatus, or the buoyant load may deformthe gripe spring arrangement.d.Painter-Securing HRUs. In Europe, painter-securing HRUs perform the three-part functionof (1) a full-strength securing point for the inboard end of the sea painter; (2) anattachment point for the float-free weak link on the same end of the sea painter; and (3) arelease point for one end of the strap restraining the lifesaving equipment. In contrast, theNavy/Coast Guard style devices shown on Enclosure (3) perform only the third of thesethree functions. Enclosure (4) shows how the painter-securing HRUs differ from theNavy/ Coast Guard type. Unproved versions of these devices are available in the U.S. foruninspected vessels, and there may soon be Coast Guard approved versions that can beused on inspected vessels...." Bob, The HRU and the weak links are not the same thing. Are u sure you attended lifeboat school? IIRC = if I remember correctly. Again what was your excuse for keeping the raft and EPIRB below decks? Fred |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
Bob, The HRU and the weak links are not the same thing. Are u sure you
attended lifeboat school? Again what was your excuse for keeping the raft and EPIRB below decks? Fred Hello Fred: To help fill the void in your life. Bob |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 11, 9:04*pm, Bob wrote:
Bob, The HRU and the weak links are not the same thing. Are u sure you attended lifeboat school? Again what was your excuse for keeping the raft and EPIRB below decks? Fred Hello Fred: To help fill the void in your life. Bob Thanks Bob I hope you smarten up and get a proper mount with a hydrostatic release if you really sail at all offshore in the PNW for your epirb. Mount it on your mast base aft if you do not have a better spot due to flush decks. It is just plain dumb to keep an EPIRB below decks. I can halfway understand keeping a liferaft in a soft pack in the cockpit (not Below), if you can not afford a proper hard pack and rack with a HRU. What kind of boat do you have takes on so much green water that you have secured items washing over? Is that why you never post pictures of your boat? Is it a sunfish? Please note in this film there are liferafts that see plenty of blue water washing over the cases, but none are washed over or trigger the HRU's : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXuzy...eature=related Is it because your water is green and weighs more that you risk your life and keep your EPIRB and liferaft below? Do you plan on attending Liferaft school? Barking out oar commands on a liferaft is pretty much a waste of time. Fred |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 12, 6:28*am, wrote:
Thanks Bob No worries Fred. I simply did a search for "hydrostatic release" and "liferaft" and copied the first thing that looked eye numbingly technical. Sorry I didnt read it. I thought yould sink your teeth into it hoping to find somthing to suport your continued cricisims... Was it even appropreate to liferafts? *I hope you smarten up and get a proper mount with a hydrostatic release if you really sail at all offshore in the PNW for your epirb. Mount it on your mast base aft if you do not have a better spot due to flush decks. It is just plain dumb to keep an EPIRB below decks. Yes I do have a flush fore deck That depends on boat/area of operation/sea states I can halfway understand keeping a liferaft in a soft pack in the cockpit (not Below), if you can not afford a proper hard pack and rack with a HRU. Humm again, the boat does not really alow much in the cock pit. A guy named Magnus Halvorsen designed it for sailing not for sipping limon drops and knawing on burnt chcken thats raw on the inside from those rediculus grills hung on the back of nearly every marina queen i see. *What kind of boat do you have takes on so much green water that you have secured items washing over? Is that why you never post pictures of your boat? Is it a sunfish? I have a Freya 39 built by gannon in 1979. there are a couple reason for keeping below. but wont wast your time. Never had a sunfish but paddled around a bay on an 8' orange poly dock float. that was fun! *Please note in this film there are liferafts that see plenty of blue water washing over the cases, but none are washed over or trigger the HRU's :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXuzy...eature=related Racers........they seem a rather skilled lot. Im not concerned about a premature hydro releast. unfortuanly my little 39.3' boat is a bit smaller than that race thingy. each situatoin requires a diffrent installation. I agree on deck is best if............. but i dont so....... it goes below. *Is it because your water is green and weighs more that you risk your life and keep your EPIRB and liferaft below? Yes, i thought eveyone nu about the electromagneic spectrum and the specific gravity of green water compared to blue and brown in a breaking wave hit. As I am sure you relize you mus apply the princple of Partial Presure to a hydrostatic realease mechinism. Consider the following formula (PP H2O x .445) / (64 lbs/cuft x sq root 14.7 moles) ( speed of 2.031 meter per second per meter sq) = Hydrostatic Release Factor of 1.48 Do you plan on attending Liferaft school? I am hurt. I thought you read every word I wrote :( Yes, I did recieve my Lifeboatman and Proficiency in Survival Craft (LB &PSC) certification. And yes we got to row a boat around, Give Way All ...... Together. the one I liked was Toss Oars. I was thinking of you every time I gave the command Toss. *Barking out oar commands on a liferaft is pretty much a waste of time. I have no reason to argue for the USCG. I suggest you direct your comments to them. Fred Have fun fred. I think I need to do somthing today..... Bob |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:33:36 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote: Have fun fred. I think I need to do somthing today..... Bob Spelling lessons perhaps? |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 12, 4:18*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:33:36 -0700 (PDT), Bob wrote: Have fun fred. I think I need to do somthing today..... Bob Spelling lessons perhaps? Nah, spelling lessons..... I dont need no stinkin spelling lessons. Thats one of the great things bout this place. Dont have to worry bout impressing anybody wit my spelling. But for support of all the non spellers, there are no links/associations/causal relationships between crappy spelling and intellegence (how ever ya wanna operationalize intellegence). But it must really get to yall who love Scrabble and attempting the NY Times Cross Word Puzels Catholic School Bob |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:37:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote: But for support of all the non spellers, there are no links/associations/causal relationships between crappy spelling and intellegence (how ever ya wanna operationalize intellegence). Perhaps, but it doesn't do much for your credibility to sound like a half wit hillbilly. |
Aggies Lost at Sea?
On Jun 14, 10:54*am, Wayne.B wrote:
Perhaps, but it doesn't do much for your credibility to sound like a half wit hillbilly. If we are to judge a persons intelligence on their deilivery style (sounding like a hillbilly) how do you think we should judge our current president? or all of the people in the southern and central states? Cause where I come from they all sound like a bunch of idiots.......... Id rather talk with a lousy spelling southern knuckle head than get board to death by some tight assed white christian who spells correctly ,who diagrams sententance and uses that stilted and archaic mid west structure. But Wilbur Hubbard would know more about this. After all he has a terminal degree in english..... although I thought is was simply a BS Journalism from the midwest...... Id guess the BS given his typical midwest sentance structure and word choice. give me a writer filled with life not some stoggy parochial homeschooled robotnik. |
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