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AIS again
I'm considering installing an AIS. I'd really like a transceiver but
haven't been able to find one for less than around $4k with all you need to install it. Receive only units seem to be around $700 by the time you add some kind of display an antenna splitter or antenna and a receiver. Multiplexing single channel receivers are reasonably priced but I would assume they aren't as robust as two channel units and I still need a display. In my case running a laptop all the time is too expensive in terms of amps. I gather that class B transceivers are coming to the US market "real soon now". So, is anyone in the group using AIS? How do you like it? Are you using a receive only or xmit/rec unit? Does anyone know when the B units will be out and what kind or prices they'll have? What else should I know that I'm too ignorant to ask? (ABOUT AIS only, please :)) Cheers, -- Tom. Links I thought were interesting: http://vespermarine.com/index.shtml http://www.milltechmarine.com/ http://www.si-tex.com/ |
AIS again
Larry wrote:
" wrote in news:d609d066-615f-4f32- : I'm considering installing an AIS. I'd really like a transceiver but haven't been able to find one for less than around $4k with all you need to install it. Receive only units seem to be around $700 by the time you add some kind of display an antenna splitter or antenna and a receiver. Multiplexing single channel receivers are reasonably priced but I would assume they aren't as robust as two channel units and I still need a display. In my case running a laptop all the time is too expensive in terms of amps. I gather that class B transceivers are coming to the US market "real soon now". So, is anyone in the group using AIS? How do you like it? Are you using a receive only or xmit/rec unit? Does anyone know when the B units will be out and what kind or prices they'll have? What else should I know that I'm too ignorant to ask? (ABOUT AIS only, please :)) Cheers, -- Tom. Links I thought were interesting: http://vespermarine.com/index.shtml http://www.milltechmarine.com/ http://www.si-tex.com/ Tom, are you in the USA? Here is a class B soon to be legal in the US for about $1K. http://www.acrelectronics.com/NauticastB/nauticastB.htm Gordon |
AIS again
I think I have mentioned this before, but it is not at all certain that
Class B AIS will ever be approved in the US. Perhaps Larry has a better insight to this, but that's the rumor I keep hearing. My position is that if you think you need AIS, Class B makes no sense at all. Class A gear is not that much more and is much better plus Class A is approved everywhere and although discouraged for yacht use, it is not prohibited. Steve wrote in message ... I'm considering installing an AIS. I'd really like a transceiver but haven't been able to find one for less than around $4k with all you need to install it. Receive only units seem to be around $700 by the time you add some kind of display an antenna splitter or antenna and a receiver. Multiplexing single channel receivers are reasonably priced but I would assume they aren't as robust as two channel units and I still need a display. In my case running a laptop all the time is too expensive in terms of amps. I gather that class B transceivers are coming to the US market "real soon now". So, is anyone in the group using AIS? How do you like it? Are you using a receive only or xmit/rec unit? Does anyone know when the B units will be out and what kind or prices they'll have? What else should I know that I'm too ignorant to ask? (ABOUT AIS only, please :)) Cheers, -- Tom. Links I thought were interesting: http://vespermarine.com/index.shtml http://www.milltechmarine.com/ http://www.si-tex.com/ |
AIS again
In article ,
Gordon wrote: Here is a class B soon to be legal in the US for about $1K. http://www.acrelectronics.com/NauticastB/nauticastB.htm Gordon This one too (already approved and in use elsewhere): Class B: http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en/Pr...on-Fishfinding /AI50-Automatic-Identification-System/ Class A: http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en/Pr...igation-Fishfi nding/AI80/ Marc -- remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail http://www.heusser.com |
AIS again
On May 24, 2:52 pm, Larry wrote:
Tom, are you in the USA? Yes, we're in the Bay Area right now. Planning to go to Mexico in the autumn and the rest of the S. CA coast in between now and then. -- Tom. |
AIS again
Gordon and Marc,
Thanks, those are very interesting links. Still in the dark on when the units might be FCC approved though. -- Tom. |
AIS again
On May 24, 10:27 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
My position is that if you think you need AIS, Class B makes no sense at all. Class A gear is not that much more and is much better plus Class A is approved everywhere and although discouraged for yacht use, it is not prohibited. Steve, If you're right about the FCC approval the question is moot. Still, class B gear looks ideal to me. What does A do that B doesn't? I've looked at some web pages but don't really have a great understanding of the differences. Assuming the chart on this page (http:// www.shinemicro.com/AISoverview.asp) is right B looks ideal for small boats. The cost is rumored to be 1/3 that of A which seems significant, too. -- Tom. |
Hi Tom,
You probably already know this, but even with a class B transponder you'll still need some way to display received info. The multiplex receivers work well and work much better than the single channel units. But they may only deliver every other message (if the ship is transmitting every two seconds, they deliver data every four). They do scan to determine which channel is best. They also receive all AIS messages but some other single channel only receivers may not handle class B, nav aids, safety messages, etc. When looking for a display I'd recommend seeing if it computes CPA, how many targets it can handle and whether its AIS receiver can be upgraded later to a class B transponder when they become available. Jeff Quote:
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AIS again
In article
, " wrote: Gordon and Marc, Thanks, those are very interesting links. Still in the dark on when the units might be FCC approved though. -- Tom. BTW: Here is a website with live AIS tracking - tankers, passenger vessels, rescue boats, pleasure yachts etc http://familjenhakansson.se/html/ais_live_kiel.html Enjoy. Marc -- remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail http://www.heusser.com |
AIS again
On 2008-05-25 11:55:34 -0400, " said:
Assuming the chart on this page http://www.shinemicro.com/AISoverview.asp is right, B looks ideal for small boats. The cost is rumored to be 1/3 that of A which seems significant, too. The "A"-only items on the chart couldn't be useful on boats our size: Destination, ETA, rate-of-turn.... -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
AIS again
Tom,
I'm not sure what the B has, but the point I am making is the A is approved the B is not. The A transmits 25 watts the B 5. The A has its own dedicated GPS. I don't know if the B does as well. Just because the A can xmit those data items that are related to large vessels, does not mean you have to include them. I believe it is also possible to xmit at slower time intervals as well, but I will have to check the manual. I bought a new demo model Simrad A for $1200 lst year on eBay. Steve wrote in message ... On May 24, 10:27 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote: My position is that if you think you need AIS, Class B makes no sense at all. Class A gear is not that much more and is much better plus Class A is approved everywhere and although discouraged for yacht use, it is not prohibited. Steve, If you're right about the FCC approval the question is moot. Still, class B gear looks ideal to me. What does A do that B doesn't? I've looked at some web pages but don't really have a great understanding of the differences. Assuming the chart on this page (http:// www.shinemicro.com/AISoverview.asp) is right B looks ideal for small boats. The cost is rumored to be 1/3 that of A which seems significant, too. -- Tom. |
AIS again
On May 25, 11:23 am, Marc Heusser
BTW: Here is a website with live AIS tracking - tankers, passenger vessels, rescue boats, pleasure yachts etc http://familjenhakansson.se/html/ais_live_kiel.html Thanks! Also, since I'm in the bay area new (http://www.boatingsf.com/ ais_map.php). There are others, too. Just looking at the sf one I notice that some vessels are showing bogus data. That's a little worrying... -- Tom. |
AIS again
On May 25, 12:28 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
Tom, I'm not sure what the B has, but the point I am making is the A is approved the B is not. The A transmits 25 watts the B 5. The A has its own dedicated GPS. I don't know if the B does as well. Just because the A can xmit those data items that are related to large vessels, does not mean you have to include them. I believe it is also possible to xmit at slower time intervals as well, but I will have to check the manual. I bought a new demo model Simrad A for $1200 lst year on eBay. Steve Thanks. All good points and that price is in w/in my pain threshold. For us low power use is a major so 5w every 15 seconds is going to be better than 25w every 10. A bit more googling has brought up the possibility that B units might not be received by some older AIS's or might be filtered out. Also, B seems stalled at the FCC... Which leaves me thinking of spending say $800 on a receive only system, or ~3.5K list for an A system (plus power issues) or seeking out a deal on eBay... The mind boggles. But thanks again for the input. -- Tom. |
AIS again
On May 25, 9:58 am, jmr wrote:
Hi Tom, You probably already know this, but even with a class B transponder you'll still need some way to display received info. Good point. The Verper unit plus a pc for close calls is what I'm thinking of now. The multiplex receivers work well and work much better than the single channel units. But they may only deliver every other message (if the ship is transmitting every two seconds, they deliver data every four). Right, but I'm worried a little that they need to get a complete sentence/packet (not sure of the system details) and I wonder if they couldn't find themselves missing many packets because of bad timing. Does the protocol take care of that somehow? .... When looking for a display I'd recommend seeing if it computes CPA, how many targets it can handle and whether its AIS receiver can be upgraded later to a class B transponder when they become available. Yes CPA/TCPA are the big selling point for me. One reason I don't like the NASA AIS Radar is that you get to plot that on a tiny PPI. Not all the units I've looked at mentioned the number of targets they could track. I think the AIS system has some kind of filtering built in. Is there a problem w/targets getting dropped? Cheers, -- Tom. |
AIS again
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AIS again
"Steve Lusardi" wrote in
: I think I have mentioned this before, but it is not at all certain that Class B AIS will ever be approved in the US. Perhaps Larry has a better insight to this, but that's the rumor I keep hearing. My position is that if you think you need AIS, Class B makes no sense at all. Class A gear is not that much more and is much better plus Class A is approved everywhere and although discouraged for yacht use, it is not prohibited. Steve I've been told the commercial shipping interests are trying their best to keep all the non-compulsory boats off the AIS system, what there is of it in the technology backwater the USA has become. I think this is why all the footdragging is going on at the FCC and USCG. They don't WANT to see your 40' sloop on their AIS displays. Of course, they'd rather you never left the dock, either....(c; |
AIS again
" wrote in
: On May 24, 10:27 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote: My position is that if you think you need AIS, Class B makes no sense at all. Class A gear is not that much more and is much better plus Class A is approved everywhere and although discouraged for yacht use, it is not prohibited. Steve, If you're right about the FCC approval the question is moot. Still, class B gear looks ideal to me. What does A do that B doesn't? I've looked at some web pages but don't really have a great understanding of the differences. Assuming the chart on this page (http:// www.shinemicro.com/AISoverview.asp) is right B looks ideal for small boats. The cost is rumored to be 1/3 that of A which seems significant, too. -- Tom. http://uscg.mil/nais/description.asp I just stumbled onto this government monstrosity....as usual. CG says it should be implemented by 2014 after AIS has been replaced by the next generation of navagational electronics from some other simpletons. The contractors must be very proud. It'll buy them houses and cars and vacations in exotic places for another decade or two......while mariners die who could be saved by a SIMPLE AIS shore station setup like: http://www.shipais.com/index.php which now covers ALL OF ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, WALES and about half of IRELAND. The software ALREADY exists, but let's not let that bother our bureaucrats spending millions to reinvent what's ALREADY UP AND RUNNING! http://www.shipais.com/currentmap.php?map=folkstone Wow! Look at the CHANNEL TRAFFIC! |
AIS again
" wrote in news:d88f5712-bcf7-4aba-
: What does A do that B doesn't? http://www.panbo.com/archives/cat_ais.html Panbo has an excellent handle on current AIS tendencies to answer your question. But, if you're very adventurous, the FCC can addle your brain in minutes: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-07-2597A1.txt And, of course, you ALREADY have a copy of: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_07.html as required by your Ship Station License.....right? .....and you've read it all, carefully, and are in full compliance, as required by law with heavy penalties.....right? To see lots of the political wrangling and foot dragging going on, including the little problem of the FCC bureaucrats ALREADY selling one of the AIS channels to Maritel Communications they shouldn't have, look on this list: http://search2.fcc.gov/search/index.htm? job=search&site=fcc_all&q=AIS&Submit+search+reques t.x=0 &Submit+search+request.y=0&Submit+search+request=S ubmit or better yet: http://tinyurl.com/5noy3x The political nonsense involved didn't help the Capt Joe's survival, which was credited, partially, by her AIS transmissions even before the crew called for a Mayday. Panbo quotes APA.com saying: "“The fishermen had an ‘automated identification system transponder’ aboard their boat. While that transponder system sunk with the Captain Joe, the signals it gave out before the vessel went down helped the rescue crews find the boat's last position.” We don’t normally think of AIS being used that way, and I don’t know the details, but I can easily imagine how the rescue center could use some sort of Internet based AIS tracking system, or maybe their own receivers, to get good position data before the fishermen even fired off their EPIRB. For me, this news was ironic on several levels. Just last week I learned that Class B AIS isn’t even on the FCC’s March 19 agenda, meaning that this Capt. Joe type rescue aid remains unavailable for most boaters. (However, I also heard that at least one commissioner has already signed the ruling—a meeting isn’t even necessary—so maybe this FCC travesty will actually end soon.) Second, before hearing about Capt. Joe (thanks, Jim!), I was already into an amazing book called Dead Men Tapping, and hardly slept last night plowing towards it inevitable conclusion. The book is not only an excellent profile of New England fishermen and salvors, but also a wrenching tale of what can happen out there, and hence why Class B AIS could be such a valuable collision avoidance tool. (One reason the USCG wants reasonable-cost Class B expedited is so that it can mandate them on commercial fishing boats.) But the book is also a stinging indictment of the Coast Guard’s failure to perform well in this and several other somewhat unusual rescue situations. I’d like to think they learned something from author Kate Yeomans fine work. But whether that’s true or not, you’ll likely approach disasters at sea a little differently once you’ve read Dead Men Tapping." .....once again showing the multi-bureaucratic bungling between CG and FCC and other Federal bureaucrats and we STILL don't have an AIS transponder for your boat, whether the big ships like it or not.... |
AIS again
" wrote in
: On May 24, 10:27 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote: My position is that if you think you need AIS, Class B makes no sense at all. Class A gear is not that much more and is much better plus Class A is approved everywhere and although discouraged for yacht use, it is not prohibited. Steve, If you're right about the FCC approval the question is moot. Still, class B gear looks ideal to me. What does A do that B doesn't? I've looked at some web pages but don't really have a great understanding of the differences. Assuming the chart on this page (http:// www.shinemicro.com/AISoverview.asp) is right B looks ideal for small boats. The cost is rumored to be 1/3 that of A which seems significant, too. -- Tom. The S/V "Dragonfly" is at sea doing 8.3 knots under sail, tonight. Here's what you MIGHT look like, at some point years and years from now in the USA: http://www.shipais.com/showship.php?mmsi=235005213 Oops...got an update. She's up to 9.1 knots, now! HEY, COAST GUARD! YOU WATCHIN' DIS BO'?!! |
AIS again
"Larry" wrote in message ... http://www.shipais.com/currentmap.php?map=folkstone Wow! Look at the CHANNEL TRAFFIC! Yes. It is interesting sailing from UK to France, especially at night. You have to proceed on the assumption that they do not even know you are there. |
AIS again
On May 25, 3:23 pm, Larry wrote:
http://www.panbo.com/archives/cat_ais.html Panbo has an excellent handle on current AIS tendencies to answer your question. [vast swaths of great info clipped] Larry, How do you find all this stuff? Picture me genuflecting in your direction. I'm in awe. And thanks! I've bookmarked the Panbo site. I had not run across that before. Interesting but saddening in terms of AIS B. -- Tom. |
AIS again
" wrote in news:5fd505e1-a5f9-4c8a-
: Larry, How do you find all this stuff? Picture me genuflecting in your direction. I'm in awe. And thanks! I've bookmarked the Panbo site. I had not run across that before. Interesting but saddening in terms of AIS B. -- Tom. www.google.com Look no further. If it exists, google will find it. Keep all queries simple with no extra words like a question. AIS B FCC approval something like that. The less unnecessary words, the better. The search engine also supports searching by strings of letters or phrases. If you search for: Icom Marine Radios you get all websites about marine anything and radio anything by any manufacturer, ESPECIALLY those websites paying Google big money to SELL you something. If you enter: "Icom Marine Radio" or "Icom Marine" google only returns searches with the string "icom marine" or "Icom marine" without being so picky about capital letters. I usually string search all lower case. You can also demand google look for everything with the + symbol. If you search for: +Icom +M602 +repair google will return websites that have all three words, not all the Icom websites on the planet. There's a tutorial on google to show you how to do advanced searching to eliminate a lot of the clutter and spam the search engine is inundated with, daily. Google is a fascinating place and resource. We used to use altavista.com, which was a similar massive search engine that's still alive, I think. Yahoo works great, too, well.....until Micro$oft gets hold of it.... |
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