"jeff" wrote in message
. ..

Eisboch wrote:
...
I've searched around looking for information on the safety issues of
carrying a small, portable, gasoline generator on board for making
morning coffee or whatever. I have a little Honda EU-2000 Inverter type
generator that is small, light, quiet and completely self-contained. For
my needs, I could fuel it on the dock, and it would have enough gas to
serve the minimal morning coffee making needs for a week or more. No
need to carry any more gas containers.
...

Most everything has been said, but I can't resist putting in my two bits.
First, There is really no problem with the Honda as long as its stashed in
a place where any fuel leak will go overboard, instead of the bilge. I
carry one in a cockpit locker that drains out the stern, and the spare gas
stays in the dinghy hanging on davits. When its run, usually as a backup
charging system, the exhaust is pointed out the stern.

However, I must say that I find its too noisy to use in a crowded
anchorage, especially if there is a boat directly behind. And running it
first thing in the morning just to make coffee is decidedly anti-social.

As for making coffee, a home style electric brewer is not needed, you can
much better coffee with manual methods. Many prefer a French Press, but
my favorite is a simple manual drip through a paper filter into a Thermos.
I have a slight preference for a "gold filter" at home, but paper filters
are much easier to clean on a boat. There are several other methods, but
they are all just variations on the same theme: mix near boiling water
with good coffee, that's all it takes.

This of course leaves the question of how to produce boiling water - I'm
assuming the you don't have a non-electric stove on board. (But then, how
do you stay out more than a day? Do you intend to run a portable genset
for every meal???) You could always get a small propane camp stove; the
risks associated are probably less than carrying gasoline. There are some
BBQ's (like the new Magma) that can easily heat a pot of water. Also, a
microwave can boil a quart of water reasonably quick. Probably the best
electric heater is a Bodum Ibis (or Mini Ibis), which can boil 1.7 liters
in 4 minutes. Its total load for a Thermos of coffee would be about 10
Amp-hours, though of course a fair sized inverter is needed. Far most
civilized than firing up a generator!


I guess my question was poorly specified.
The boat in question has a propane system and stove, so there are other ways
to
quietly heat water.

My question was related to simply the safety issues involved in carrying and
occasionally operating a Honda EU-2000i
portable generator in the cockpit area of a boat. I used "making coffee or
whatever" as an example of it's purpose since the boat I was contemplating
does not have a permanent genset or inverter.

I didn't realize my safety related question was so controversial. I am not
exactly new to boating and am well aware of the courtesies that should be
extended and shared.

Eisboch

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:04:01 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"jeff" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:
...
I've searched around looking for information on the safety issues of
carrying a small, portable, gasoline generator on board for making
morning coffee or whatever. I have a little Honda EU-2000 Inverter type
generator that is small, light, quiet and completely self-contained. For
my needs, I could fuel it on the dock, and it would have enough gas to
serve the minimal morning coffee making needs for a week or more. No
need to carry any more gas containers.
...

Most everything has been said, but I can't resist putting in my two bits.
First, There is really no problem with the Honda as long as its stashed in
a place where any fuel leak will go overboard, instead of the bilge. I
carry one in a cockpit locker that drains out the stern, and the spare gas
stays in the dinghy hanging on davits. When its run, usually as a backup
charging system, the exhaust is pointed out the stern.

However, I must say that I find its too noisy to use in a crowded
anchorage, especially if there is a boat directly behind. And running it
first thing in the morning just to make coffee is decidedly anti-social.

As for making coffee, a home style electric brewer is not needed, you can
much better coffee with manual methods. Many prefer a French Press, but
my favorite is a simple manual drip through a paper filter into a Thermos.
I have a slight preference for a "gold filter" at home, but paper filters
are much easier to clean on a boat. There are several other methods, but
they are all just variations on the same theme: mix near boiling water
with good coffee, that's all it takes.

This of course leaves the question of how to produce boiling water - I'm
assuming the you don't have a non-electric stove on board. (But then, how
do you stay out more than a day? Do you intend to run a portable genset
for every meal???) You could always get a small propane camp stove; the
risks associated are probably less than carrying gasoline. There are some
BBQ's (like the new Magma) that can easily heat a pot of water. Also, a
microwave can boil a quart of water reasonably quick. Probably the best
electric heater is a Bodum Ibis (or Mini Ibis), which can boil 1.7 liters
in 4 minutes. Its total load for a Thermos of coffee would be about 10
Amp-hours, though of course a fair sized inverter is needed. Far most
civilized than firing up a generator!


I guess my question was poorly specified.
The boat in question has a propane system and stove, so there are other ways
to
quietly heat water.

My question was related to simply the safety issues involved in carrying and
occasionally operating a Honda EU-2000i
portable generator in the cockpit area of a boat. I used "making coffee or
whatever" as an example of it's purpose since the boat I was contemplating
does not have a permanent genset or inverter.

I didn't realize my safety related question was so controversial. I am not
exactly new to boating and am well aware of the courtesies that should be
extended and shared.

Eisboch


I suppose the question is "do you have an outboard motor?". Keeping a
generator aboard would present about the same safety aspects as the
outboard.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Eisboch wrote:
....
I didn't realize my safety related question was so controversial.

You should know that the two most controversial issues are gensets and
coffee.

I am not
exactly new to boating and am well aware of the courtesies that should be
extended and shared.

Yes, I was baffled by that. But lack of understanding didn't stop me
from responding.

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:04:01 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

You could always get a small propane camp stove; the
risks associated are probably less than carrying gasoline. There are some

I would like to point out thhat propane is considerably heavier than
air, about the same density as carbon dioxide. Given a chance, it will
settle into the bilge. The explosion possible with a pound of the
stuff is equal to several sticks of dynamite, and can easily demolish
a boat. It does also mix with air to the point that the mixture is too
fuel poor to burn. It will do that, given a chance. This is why you
see boats with a 20 lb bottle mounted over the side, outside and
attached to, the stern railing. Gasoline main engines are probably
more dangerous, slightly. I have been boating on an Iowa lake for
fifty years. Never heard of a boat fire. Nearly all the boats are open
runabouts, or in the case of the 5hp fishing boats, crawlabouts, and
carrying a fire extinguisher is required by law.

Casady

Richard Casady wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:04:01 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

You could always get a small propane camp stove; the
risks associated are probably less than carrying gasoline. There are some

I would like to point out thhat propane is considerably heavier than
air, about the same density as carbon dioxide. Given a chance, it will
settle into the bilge. The explosion possible with a pound of the
stuff is equal to several sticks of dynamite, and can easily demolish
a boat. It does also mix with air to the point that the mixture is too
fuel poor to burn. It will do that, given a chance. This is why you
see boats with a 20 lb bottle mounted over the side, outside and
attached to, the stern railing. Gasoline main engines are probably
more dangerous, slightly. I have been boating on an Iowa lake for
fifty years. Never heard of a boat fire. Nearly all the boats are open
runabouts, or in the case of the 5hp fishing boats, crawlabouts, and
carrying a fire extinguisher is required by law.

This may be true, but the actual incidence of accidents and fatalities
is quite low. The total fire/explosion fatality count for the last 5
years is 16 for fuel, 4 for non-fuel in the USCG recreational boating
stat. This is out of about 3600 fatalities from other causes. (Peeing
over the side is probably far more dangerous than using propane.) There
have been a number of non-fatal incidents, but most fuel fires occur
during or shortly after re-fueling, when the crew is on deck.

I've never witnessed a fuel fire but I've seen the aftermath a few
times. When I was walking down the dock to inspect my new boat for the
first time, the salesman said, "Don't be alarmed, there was a little
incident but your boat is OK." It seemed the 30 ft powerboat diagonally
across had taken on fuel, powered back to the slip, and exploded when
the shore power was plugged in. There were no injuries, but boat was
totaled, and the boat next to mine (owned by my builder) was scorched.

Actually I did witness one impressive explosion. I was about 500 yards
away from this one:
http://infinitecoolness.com/gallerie...lownaway24.jpg

On 2008-04-27 10:04:01 -0400, "Eisboch" said:

The boat in question has a propane system and stove, so there are other
ways to quietly heat water.

In that case, use them. No need to carry extra "stuff" for such a
trivial chore.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:56:44 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-04-27 10:04:01 -0400, "Eisboch" said:

The boat in question has a propane system and stove, so there are other
ways to quietly heat water.

In that case, use them. No need to carry extra "stuff" for such a
trivial chore.

Trivial chore? Did you say trivial chore?
http://coffeegeek.com/guides/presspot

As you can see, there is NOTHING TRIVIAL about brewing exquisite
French Press coffee.
I wonder how sea air affects the bloom?

Quotes from the link, and my comments:

"you're only using fresh beans, roasted within 10 days or less,
right?"
(Of course, I have a chopper making timely deliveries.)

"One thing you may not want to do with a press pot, especially a
larger model, is use beans roasted less than 2 or 3 days before."
(Wouldn't think of doing that. That's absolutely mad.)

"I'll say it once more. Don't skimp on your grinder. A quality conical
burr grinder, from the Bodum Antigua, up to the Solis Maestro Plus and
beyond will suit."
(It's actually quite obscene to put electro-mechanical friction to a
coffee bean. The heat produced from such forces and applied to the
bean, while not immediately evident to the senses, has a deleterious
effect on the grind and is manifestly evident in the quality of the
brew. A well manufactured and maintained manual coffee grinder,
cranked at the proper pace* is required for a decent grind.
* See Lord Farhquarghtington's well known treatise "The Art of Manual
Coffee Grinding and Ethics of The Grind" for more on this.)


Well, take all that as you will.
Now, some say making a good cuppa coffee is a "trivial matter."
Others say fixing a sail to attachments in order to have the wind
propel a boat on the water is a "trivial matter."
It's all in the company you keep.

--Vic

ps. I think Jeff has mentioned he roasts his coffee aboard his
catamaran, so I bet he's a good sailing partner for the coffee
connoisseur.

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:56:44 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-04-27 10:04:01 -0400, "Eisboch" said:

The boat in question has a propane system and stove, so there are other
ways to quietly heat water.
In that case, use them. No need to carry extra "stuff" for such a
trivial chore.

Trivial chore? Did you say trivial chore?
http://coffeegeek.com/guides/presspot

As you can see, there is NOTHING TRIVIAL about brewing exquisite
French Press coffee.
I wonder how sea air affects the bloom?

Quotes from the link, and my comments:

"you're only using fresh beans, roasted within 10 days or less,
right?"
(Of course, I have a chopper making timely deliveries.)

"One thing you may not want to do with a press pot, especially a
larger model, is use beans roasted less than 2 or 3 days before."
(Wouldn't think of doing that. That's absolutely mad.)

"I'll say it once more. Don't skimp on your grinder. A quality conical
burr grinder, from the Bodum Antigua, up to the Solis Maestro Plus and
beyond will suit."
(It's actually quite obscene to put electro-mechanical friction to a
coffee bean. The heat produced from such forces and applied to the
bean, while not immediately evident to the senses, has a deleterious
effect on the grind and is manifestly evident in the quality of the
brew. A well manufactured and maintained manual coffee grinder,
cranked at the proper pace* is required for a decent grind.
* See Lord Farhquarghtington's well known treatise "The Art of Manual
Coffee Grinding and Ethics of The Grind" for more on this.)


Yes, CoffeeGeek is fun, but I have to say that some folks get a bit
carried away. I had dinner with the guy who started it, and he was a
smoker! I kind of lost my faith in the self-proclaimed connoisseurs!
Also at the table were the folks from smithfarms.com who have supplied
much of my green beans since.

I would recommend that anyone looking for home equipment check out the
reviews in CoffeeGeek. Most home brewers are junk - the common fatal
flaw is that the water boiling element is actually in the bottom, and
the hot water is run through the cold water reservoir, ensuring that the
temp has dropped 40 degrees before it hits the grounds. In the 'Geek
reviews you'll find that people have measured the temp and speed of most
brands, so you get get a good idea of the quality of brew it can make.


Well, take all that as you will.
Now, some say making a good cuppa coffee is a "trivial matter."

It really is - all you need is a good grinder, preferably a burr grinder
(rather than a whirly blade) that you can get for about $60. After
that, a simple paper filter setup (a few bucks) or a press pot will get
you the equal of any coffee brewed. Of course, good beans help a lot!

I always get a chuckle when people say they don't have time to make
"real" coffee, since even with instant you still have to measure the
coffee, boil the water, etc. The difference between instant and the
best coffee in the world is really only a couple of minutes.

As for cost, a mug of top quality coffee is about 50 cents, easily the
best bargain out there.

....


ps. I think Jeff has mentioned he roasts his coffee aboard his
catamaran, so I bet he's a good sailing partner for the coffee
connoisseur.

Yes, when we traveled for a year I roasted on board, using the lo-tech
method: a Whirly-Pop on the BBQ. Nowadays, with a kid in school, we
don't go out for more than a month, so I roast at home, then pre-measure
one Thermos loads into baggies, and vacuum seal a week's worth
together and put it in the freezer. Although there is a slight loss,
its within the range of variability of the manual roasting process.

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:08:49 -0400, jeff wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:56:44 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-04-27 10:04:01 -0400, "Eisboch" said:

The boat in question has a propane system and stove, so there are other
ways to quietly heat water.
In that case, use them. No need to carry extra "stuff" for such a
trivial chore.

Trivial chore? Did you say trivial chore?
http://coffeegeek.com/guides/presspot

As you can see, there is NOTHING TRIVIAL about brewing exquisite
French Press coffee.
I wonder how sea air affects the bloom?

Quotes from the link, and my comments:

"you're only using fresh beans, roasted within 10 days or less,
right?"
(Of course, I have a chopper making timely deliveries.)

"One thing you may not want to do with a press pot, especially a
larger model, is use beans roasted less than 2 or 3 days before."
(Wouldn't think of doing that. That's absolutely mad.)

"I'll say it once more. Don't skimp on your grinder. A quality conical
burr grinder, from the Bodum Antigua, up to the Solis Maestro Plus and
beyond will suit."
(It's actually quite obscene to put electro-mechanical friction to a
coffee bean. The heat produced from such forces and applied to the
bean, while not immediately evident to the senses, has a deleterious
effect on the grind and is manifestly evident in the quality of the
brew. A well manufactured and maintained manual coffee grinder,
cranked at the proper pace* is required for a decent grind.
* See Lord Farhquarghtington's well known treatise "The Art of Manual
Coffee Grinding and Ethics of The Grind" for more on this.)


Yes, CoffeeGeek is fun, but I have to say that some folks get a bit
carried away. I had dinner with the guy who started it, and he was a
smoker! I kind of lost my faith in the self-proclaimed connoisseurs!
Also at the table were the folks from smithfarms.com who have supplied
much of my green beans since.

I would recommend that anyone looking for home equipment check out the
reviews in CoffeeGeek. Most home brewers are junk - the common fatal
flaw is that the water boiling element is actually in the bottom, and
the hot water is run through the cold water reservoir, ensuring that the
temp has dropped 40 degrees before it hits the grounds. In the 'Geek
reviews you'll find that people have measured the temp and speed of most
brands, so you get get a good idea of the quality of brew it can make.


Well, take all that as you will.
Now, some say making a good cuppa coffee is a "trivial matter."

It really is - all you need is a good grinder, preferably a burr grinder
(rather than a whirly blade) that you can get for about $60. After
that, a simple paper filter setup (a few bucks) or a press pot will get
you the equal of any coffee brewed. Of course, good beans help a lot!

I always get a chuckle when people say they don't have time to make
"real" coffee, since even with instant you still have to measure the
coffee, boil the water, etc. The difference between instant and the
best coffee in the world is really only a couple of minutes.

As for cost, a mug of top quality coffee is about 50 cents, easily the
best bargain out there.

...


ps. I think Jeff has mentioned he roasts his coffee aboard his
catamaran, so I bet he's a good sailing partner for the coffee
connoisseur.

Yes, when we traveled for a year I roasted on board, using the lo-tech
method: a Whirly-Pop on the BBQ. Nowadays, with a kid in school, we
don't go out for more than a month, so I roast at home, then pre-measure
one Thermos loads into baggies, and vacuum seal a week's worth
together and put it in the freezer. Although there is a slight loss,
its within the range of variability of the manual roasting process.


I assume that being a devotee you drink nothing but the rarest coffee.
Kopi Luwak (coffee luwak) which comes from the island of Sumatra and
only a tiny quantity, in coffee shipping terms, is raised each year.
Very expensive and difficult to find outside Medan or other parts of
North Sumatra.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


I assume that being a devotee you drink nothing but the rarest coffee.

"Rare" does not equal "good." However, most of the coffee I drink is
from tiny (under 10 acres) farms.

Kopi Luwak (coffee luwak) which comes from the island of Sumatra and
only a tiny quantity, in coffee shipping terms, is raised each year.
Very expensive and difficult to find outside Medan or other parts of
North Sumatra.

As my coffee mentor (I won't reveal his name here!) told me, "Its coffee
from assholes, for assholes."