First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or anything in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with a 19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

Here's some neat Sea Ray pictures they'd rather you didn't look at:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm

Even people who hate Mr Pascoe must admit his pictures DO show a lot,
even if you don't read the text about what Brunswick is doing.

How come a company that can build a bowling pin you can beat to hell
for 20 years nearly without a scratch, can't build a hull that's not
like an eggshell, destroyed by the dock??

I have a Sea Ray. It's not the company it was before Brunswick
Bayliner bought 'em out......



On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:17:44 -0500, "pmiller"
wrote:

After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or anything in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with a 19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul







Larry W4CSC
POWER is our friend!

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

Here's some neat Sea Ray pictures they'd rather you didn't look at:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm

Even people who hate Mr Pascoe must admit his pictures DO show a lot,
even if you don't read the text about what Brunswick is doing.

How come a company that can build a bowling pin you can beat to hell
for 20 years nearly without a scratch, can't build a hull that's not
like an eggshell, destroyed by the dock??

I have a Sea Ray. It's not the company it was before Brunswick
Bayliner bought 'em out......



On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:17:44 -0500, "pmiller"
wrote:

After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or anything in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with a 19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul







Larry W4CSC
POWER is our friend!

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

I have a Sea Ray. It's not the company it was before Brunswick
Bayliner bought 'em out......

Isn't your Sea Ray the somewhat atypical, and long since discontinued Sea Ray
jet ski? (or something similar)?

Even people who hate Mr Pascoe must admit his pictures DO show a lot,
even if you don't read the text about what Brunswick is doing.

Notice the labels on the "chunks" at the top of the article? If they represent
what he claims they represent, then Formula and Chapparal are also suffering
from his alleged defect. It isn't just a Sea Ray or Brunswick problem.

He needs to take the one photo, which is an outright fraud, out of this
article. The picture on the right hand side showing somebody peeling a hull
apart is *not* representative of OEM construction. There was some previous
damage, patched with a "bondo" technique, that was glassed back over. You can
spot the bondo because it is a different color and texture than the laminate.
The photo shows a failed repair. Doesn't mean that Pascoe might not have some
sort of merit to his argument, but he's trying to prove it with a photo that
obviously does not show what he claims it shows.

Then there are these two very confusing paragraphs. In the first paragraph, he
states that chopped strand technique is no longer used in boat building. In the
second paragraph, he states that there is a limited use......just before he
states the use is rampant and a major cause of blistering.

*****begins

In the early years of small FRP boat building, a few companies tried making
boats from chopped strands of fibers, mixed with polyester resin and blown
through a gun into a mold. The length of these fibers was about 3-4 inches and
were usually curled like cut hair when viewed in the mold. Very quickly we
learned just how weak laminates made with short fibers are. Those
"blow-molded" boats tended to break up all to soon. The chopper-gun boats soon
disappeared from the scene. Today, things like shower stalls, truck fenders and
the Corvette automobile body are made with chopper guns because they don't
require great strength like a boat hull. For this reason, chopped strand is not
considered as a structural fiber.

That does not mean that chopped strand mat and chopper guns have disappeared
from boat shops. Chopped strand mat (CSM) is still used on all boats to prevent
the weave pattern of fabrics like roving from showing on the gel coat surface.
A very thin layer of mat is also used between heavy fabrics to prevent
concentrations of resin between the heavy fabrics. And for other uses where
very high strength is not required. One of our complaints about Taiwan boats
has always been that they make use of the chopper gun too much.

*******ends

What an alarmist. "Blow molded boats tend to break up all too soon....."
Right. Boats built with chopped strand mat just suddenly, and without warning,
dissolve while in use. Not. I'd like to hear of
a verifiable account of a boat that just randomly "broke up" like a distressed
egg shell for no apparent reason (such as a violent impact or an overwhelming
storm).

So, one can only wonder whether chopped strand has gone the way of the do-do
bird (and in factories I have visited it has not)...whether it is still used in
most boats to a limited degree......or whether it is so overused that it causes
delamination (internal blistering) in hulls that are not technically
constructed of a "laminate" at all.

In some cases, chopped strand is superior
to continuous strand roving. For example,
parts that have tight contours may be very difficult to lay properly with
traditional laminate but can be molded pretty effectively with chop.

To the original poster:

Sea Ray has always built a very decent boat. A 30' Sundancer isn't a blue water
battlewagon and won't be built like one, but for somewhat sheltered waters in
any sort of pleasure boat weather at all, (and worse), there is no reason to
fear for the structural integrity of the hull.

With any used boat, it's important to remember that the brand name only
represents what the boat started out to be....and a name that means pretty
decent quality in a new boat doesn't guarantee the condition of an older
vessel. (Could have been beat to death by an ignorant former owner- or damaged
in a hurricane like a lot of the boats used in certain alarmist web sites out
of Florida).

If the boat surveys well, enjoy it. Just don't go looking for the "perfect
storm". :-)

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

I have a Sea Ray. It's not the company it was before Brunswick
Bayliner bought 'em out......

Isn't your Sea Ray the somewhat atypical, and long since discontinued Sea Ray
jet ski? (or something similar)?

Even people who hate Mr Pascoe must admit his pictures DO show a lot,
even if you don't read the text about what Brunswick is doing.

Notice the labels on the "chunks" at the top of the article? If they represent
what he claims they represent, then Formula and Chapparal are also suffering
from his alleged defect. It isn't just a Sea Ray or Brunswick problem.

He needs to take the one photo, which is an outright fraud, out of this
article. The picture on the right hand side showing somebody peeling a hull
apart is *not* representative of OEM construction. There was some previous
damage, patched with a "bondo" technique, that was glassed back over. You can
spot the bondo because it is a different color and texture than the laminate.
The photo shows a failed repair. Doesn't mean that Pascoe might not have some
sort of merit to his argument, but he's trying to prove it with a photo that
obviously does not show what he claims it shows.

Then there are these two very confusing paragraphs. In the first paragraph, he
states that chopped strand technique is no longer used in boat building. In the
second paragraph, he states that there is a limited use......just before he
states the use is rampant and a major cause of blistering.

*****begins

In the early years of small FRP boat building, a few companies tried making
boats from chopped strands of fibers, mixed with polyester resin and blown
through a gun into a mold. The length of these fibers was about 3-4 inches and
were usually curled like cut hair when viewed in the mold. Very quickly we
learned just how weak laminates made with short fibers are. Those
"blow-molded" boats tended to break up all to soon. The chopper-gun boats soon
disappeared from the scene. Today, things like shower stalls, truck fenders and
the Corvette automobile body are made with chopper guns because they don't
require great strength like a boat hull. For this reason, chopped strand is not
considered as a structural fiber.

That does not mean that chopped strand mat and chopper guns have disappeared
from boat shops. Chopped strand mat (CSM) is still used on all boats to prevent
the weave pattern of fabrics like roving from showing on the gel coat surface.
A very thin layer of mat is also used between heavy fabrics to prevent
concentrations of resin between the heavy fabrics. And for other uses where
very high strength is not required. One of our complaints about Taiwan boats
has always been that they make use of the chopper gun too much.

*******ends

What an alarmist. "Blow molded boats tend to break up all too soon....."
Right. Boats built with chopped strand mat just suddenly, and without warning,
dissolve while in use. Not. I'd like to hear of
a verifiable account of a boat that just randomly "broke up" like a distressed
egg shell for no apparent reason (such as a violent impact or an overwhelming
storm).

So, one can only wonder whether chopped strand has gone the way of the do-do
bird (and in factories I have visited it has not)...whether it is still used in
most boats to a limited degree......or whether it is so overused that it causes
delamination (internal blistering) in hulls that are not technically
constructed of a "laminate" at all.

In some cases, chopped strand is superior
to continuous strand roving. For example,
parts that have tight contours may be very difficult to lay properly with
traditional laminate but can be molded pretty effectively with chop.

To the original poster:

Sea Ray has always built a very decent boat. A 30' Sundancer isn't a blue water
battlewagon and won't be built like one, but for somewhat sheltered waters in
any sort of pleasure boat weather at all, (and worse), there is no reason to
fear for the structural integrity of the hull.

With any used boat, it's important to remember that the brand name only
represents what the boat started out to be....and a name that means pretty
decent quality in a new boat doesn't guarantee the condition of an older
vessel. (Could have been beat to death by an ignorant former owner- or damaged
in a hurricane like a lot of the boats used in certain alarmist web sites out
of Florida).

If the boat surveys well, enjoy it. Just don't go looking for the "perfect
storm". :-)

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

Partially similar, I'm familiar with a Sundancer V245 of about the
same vintage. We've had anumber of problems with the water pump for
cooling the exhaust jacket. The problem is that it uses a rubber
impeller, which needs frequent replacement. (Every year is a good
idea.) It's not tremendously critical to most folks because if you
run lots of RPMs then it doesn't matter as much. But if you troll for
fish about idle, watch your temperature!

Also the boat we bought came from the Chesapeake bay, but we only run
in fresh water. So we've spent a lot of time trying to get all that
salt water junk cleaned out of the water jackets. Anyway, I'm sure
there's some maintenance that should be done to keep your jackets
clean, but I'm not the one to describe them.

We've had the boat for five years and only rebuilt the outdrive once.
Seems fairly reliable. Obviously expensive to rebuild, so we did it
ourselves, which was time consuming but not too difficult. I think
your boat will have a different outdrive than ours though.

In the end we've had good luck with it. A few minor problems here and
there as parts fail etc. But mostly a good boat for us!

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:17:44 -0500, "pmiller"
wrote:

After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or anything in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with a 19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

Partially similar, I'm familiar with a Sundancer V245 of about the
same vintage. We've had anumber of problems with the water pump for
cooling the exhaust jacket. The problem is that it uses a rubber
impeller, which needs frequent replacement. (Every year is a good
idea.) It's not tremendously critical to most folks because if you
run lots of RPMs then it doesn't matter as much. But if you troll for
fish about idle, watch your temperature!

Also the boat we bought came from the Chesapeake bay, but we only run
in fresh water. So we've spent a lot of time trying to get all that
salt water junk cleaned out of the water jackets. Anyway, I'm sure
there's some maintenance that should be done to keep your jackets
clean, but I'm not the one to describe them.

We've had the boat for five years and only rebuilt the outdrive once.
Seems fairly reliable. Obviously expensive to rebuild, so we did it
ourselves, which was time consuming but not too difficult. I think
your boat will have a different outdrive than ours though.

In the end we've had good luck with it. A few minor problems here and
there as parts fail etc. But mostly a good boat for us!

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 18:17:44 -0500, "pmiller"
wrote:

After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or anything in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with a 19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

Nice post, but crap is crap. Doesn't matter what name Brunswick puts
on the side of it. The boat is built how Brunswick says it will be
built....TO SELL, not to keep. Lots of boats are built like crap, not
just Sea Ray. But, alas, Sea Ray is, unfortunately, a fairly good
example of what USED to be a fairly nice boat, before the Brunswick
bureaucrats started cutting corners to jack up profits.

There's a LOT of Bayliner in EVERY Brunswick boat. Sea Ray is no
longer an exception, no matter how slick the magazine or slick
advertising and dealer hype is spun.



On 07 Mar 2004 08:33:51 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

I have a Sea Ray. It's not the company it was before Brunswick
Bayliner bought 'em out......

Isn't your Sea Ray the somewhat atypical, and long since discontinued Sea Ray
jet ski? (or something similar)?

Even people who hate Mr Pascoe must admit his pictures DO show a lot,
even if you don't read the text about what Brunswick is doing.

Notice the labels on the "chunks" at the top of the article? If they represent
what he claims they represent, then Formula and Chapparal are also suffering
from his alleged defect. It isn't just a Sea Ray or Brunswick problem.

He needs to take the one photo, which is an outright fraud, out of this
article. The picture on the right hand side showing somebody peeling a hull
apart is *not* representative of OEM construction. There was some previous
damage, patched with a "bondo" technique, that was glassed back over. You can
spot the bondo because it is a different color and texture than the laminate.
The photo shows a failed repair. Doesn't mean that Pascoe might not have some
sort of merit to his argument, but he's trying to prove it with a photo that
obviously does not show what he claims it shows.

Then there are these two very confusing paragraphs. In the first paragraph, he
states that chopped strand technique is no longer used in boat building. In the
second paragraph, he states that there is a limited use......just before he
states the use is rampant and a major cause of blistering.

*****begins

In the early years of small FRP boat building, a few companies tried making
boats from chopped strands of fibers, mixed with polyester resin and blown
through a gun into a mold. The length of these fibers was about 3-4 inches and
were usually curled like cut hair when viewed in the mold. Very quickly we
learned just how weak laminates made with short fibers are. Those
"blow-molded" boats tended to break up all to soon. The chopper-gun boats soon
disappeared from the scene. Today, things like shower stalls, truck fenders and
the Corvette automobile body are made with chopper guns because they don't
require great strength like a boat hull. For this reason, chopped strand is not
considered as a structural fiber.

That does not mean that chopped strand mat and chopper guns have disappeared
from boat shops. Chopped strand mat (CSM) is still used on all boats to prevent
the weave pattern of fabrics like roving from showing on the gel coat surface.
A very thin layer of mat is also used between heavy fabrics to prevent
concentrations of resin between the heavy fabrics. And for other uses where
very high strength is not required. One of our complaints about Taiwan boats
has always been that they make use of the chopper gun too much.

*******ends

What an alarmist. "Blow molded boats tend to break up all too soon....."
Right. Boats built with chopped strand mat just suddenly, and without warning,
dissolve while in use. Not. I'd like to hear of
a verifiable account of a boat that just randomly "broke up" like a distressed
egg shell for no apparent reason (such as a violent impact or an overwhelming
storm).

So, one can only wonder whether chopped strand has gone the way of the do-do
bird (and in factories I have visited it has not)...whether it is still used in
most boats to a limited degree......or whether it is so overused that it causes
delamination (internal blistering) in hulls that are not technically
constructed of a "laminate" at all.

In some cases, chopped strand is superior
to continuous strand roving. For example,
parts that have tight contours may be very difficult to lay properly with
traditional laminate but can be molded pretty effectively with chop.

To the original poster:

Sea Ray has always built a very decent boat. A 30' Sundancer isn't a blue water
battlewagon and won't be built like one, but for somewhat sheltered waters in
any sort of pleasure boat weather at all, (and worse), there is no reason to
fear for the structural integrity of the hull.

With any used boat, it's important to remember that the brand name only
represents what the boat started out to be....and a name that means pretty
decent quality in a new boat doesn't guarantee the condition of an older
vessel. (Could have been beat to death by an ignorant former owner- or damaged
in a hurricane like a lot of the boats used in certain alarmist web sites out
of Florida).

If the boat surveys well, enjoy it. Just don't go looking for the "perfect
storm". :-)



Larry W4CSC
POWER is our friend!

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

Nice post, but crap is crap. Doesn't matter what name Brunswick puts
on the side of it. The boat is built how Brunswick says it will be
built....TO SELL, not to keep. Lots of boats are built like crap, not
just Sea Ray. But, alas, Sea Ray is, unfortunately, a fairly good
example of what USED to be a fairly nice boat, before the Brunswick
bureaucrats started cutting corners to jack up profits.

There's a LOT of Bayliner in EVERY Brunswick boat. Sea Ray is no
longer an exception, no matter how slick the magazine or slick
advertising and dealer hype is spun.



On 07 Mar 2004 08:33:51 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

I have a Sea Ray. It's not the company it was before Brunswick
Bayliner bought 'em out......

Isn't your Sea Ray the somewhat atypical, and long since discontinued Sea Ray
jet ski? (or something similar)?

Even people who hate Mr Pascoe must admit his pictures DO show a lot,
even if you don't read the text about what Brunswick is doing.

Notice the labels on the "chunks" at the top of the article? If they represent
what he claims they represent, then Formula and Chapparal are also suffering
from his alleged defect. It isn't just a Sea Ray or Brunswick problem.

He needs to take the one photo, which is an outright fraud, out of this
article. The picture on the right hand side showing somebody peeling a hull
apart is *not* representative of OEM construction. There was some previous
damage, patched with a "bondo" technique, that was glassed back over. You can
spot the bondo because it is a different color and texture than the laminate.
The photo shows a failed repair. Doesn't mean that Pascoe might not have some
sort of merit to his argument, but he's trying to prove it with a photo that
obviously does not show what he claims it shows.

Then there are these two very confusing paragraphs. In the first paragraph, he
states that chopped strand technique is no longer used in boat building. In the
second paragraph, he states that there is a limited use......just before he
states the use is rampant and a major cause of blistering.

*****begins

In the early years of small FRP boat building, a few companies tried making
boats from chopped strands of fibers, mixed with polyester resin and blown
through a gun into a mold. The length of these fibers was about 3-4 inches and
were usually curled like cut hair when viewed in the mold. Very quickly we
learned just how weak laminates made with short fibers are. Those
"blow-molded" boats tended to break up all to soon. The chopper-gun boats soon
disappeared from the scene. Today, things like shower stalls, truck fenders and
the Corvette automobile body are made with chopper guns because they don't
require great strength like a boat hull. For this reason, chopped strand is not
considered as a structural fiber.

That does not mean that chopped strand mat and chopper guns have disappeared
from boat shops. Chopped strand mat (CSM) is still used on all boats to prevent
the weave pattern of fabrics like roving from showing on the gel coat surface.
A very thin layer of mat is also used between heavy fabrics to prevent
concentrations of resin between the heavy fabrics. And for other uses where
very high strength is not required. One of our complaints about Taiwan boats
has always been that they make use of the chopper gun too much.

*******ends

What an alarmist. "Blow molded boats tend to break up all too soon....."
Right. Boats built with chopped strand mat just suddenly, and without warning,
dissolve while in use. Not. I'd like to hear of
a verifiable account of a boat that just randomly "broke up" like a distressed
egg shell for no apparent reason (such as a violent impact or an overwhelming
storm).

So, one can only wonder whether chopped strand has gone the way of the do-do
bird (and in factories I have visited it has not)...whether it is still used in
most boats to a limited degree......or whether it is so overused that it causes
delamination (internal blistering) in hulls that are not technically
constructed of a "laminate" at all.

In some cases, chopped strand is superior
to continuous strand roving. For example,
parts that have tight contours may be very difficult to lay properly with
traditional laminate but can be molded pretty effectively with chop.

To the original poster:

Sea Ray has always built a very decent boat. A 30' Sundancer isn't a blue water
battlewagon and won't be built like one, but for somewhat sheltered waters in
any sort of pleasure boat weather at all, (and worse), there is no reason to
fear for the structural integrity of the hull.

With any used boat, it's important to remember that the brand name only
represents what the boat started out to be....and a name that means pretty
decent quality in a new boat doesn't guarantee the condition of an older
vessel. (Could have been beat to death by an ignorant former owner- or damaged
in a hurricane like a lot of the boats used in certain alarmist web sites out
of Florida).

If the boat surveys well, enjoy it. Just don't go looking for the "perfect
storm". :-)



Larry W4CSC
POWER is our friend!

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

"pmiller" wrote in message ...
After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or anything in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with a 19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul

Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn to operate a
boat properly.

Boating is supposed to be enjoyable, it's not going to be enjoyable
when it comes time for you to dock that boat. You can learn the easy
way with a smaller, easier to handle boat, or you can learn the hard
way with the bigger boat. Your going to look like a fool trying to
dock. It will be very obvious to everyone that you don't know what
your doing. I've seen too many new boaters that bought boats that were
too big for them to handle do a lot of damage with them.

Go with the smaller boat, it's the best advice you'll ever get when it
comes to first time boats.

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

"pmiller" wrote in message ...
After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or anything in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with a 19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul

Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn to operate a
boat properly.

Boating is supposed to be enjoyable, it's not going to be enjoyable
when it comes time for you to dock that boat. You can learn the easy
way with a smaller, easier to handle boat, or you can learn the hard
way with the bigger boat. Your going to look like a fool trying to
dock. It will be very obvious to everyone that you don't know what
your doing. I've seen too many new boaters that bought boats that were
too big for them to handle do a lot of damage with them.

Go with the smaller boat, it's the best advice you'll ever get when it
comes to first time boats.

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn to operate a
boat properly.

I would disagree, based on experience.

My first boat was a 34-foot, single screw trawler. Twenty some years ago. No
bow thruster, no stern thruster.
No serious problem.

To this day, some experienced boaters are known to remark about my current
boat, (not much larger at just 36 feet) "How do you handle a single screw? I
have enough trouble with twins and a thruster!"

Biggest difference? I had some excellent, hands-on instruction from a qualified
instructor who knew what he was doing. Other wise, you are probably right:
if the learning process is going to involve just setting out and bouncing off
everything in sight until some workable substitute for proper technique is
accidentally stumbled upon, we should all start with a very small
dinghy.....preferably an inflatable. :-)

Learning to handle a 21-foot boat teaches you..................how to handle a
21-foot boat. There will still be a learning curve when stepping up to the
larger vessel, and there is no valid reason to be fearful of a medium size
craft like a 30' express cruiser- even as a beginner. Again, the key is going
to be qualified, hands-on instruction in boat operation. Power Squadron and
USCG AUX courses are fine, too, but you won't learn how to handle a boat in a
classroom.

(If you notice the details in the original post, the party isn't even strictly
a beginner.)

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn to operate a
boat properly.

I would disagree, based on experience.

My first boat was a 34-foot, single screw trawler. Twenty some years ago. No
bow thruster, no stern thruster.
No serious problem.

To this day, some experienced boaters are known to remark about my current
boat, (not much larger at just 36 feet) "How do you handle a single screw? I
have enough trouble with twins and a thruster!"

Biggest difference? I had some excellent, hands-on instruction from a qualified
instructor who knew what he was doing. Other wise, you are probably right:
if the learning process is going to involve just setting out and bouncing off
everything in sight until some workable substitute for proper technique is
accidentally stumbled upon, we should all start with a very small
dinghy.....preferably an inflatable. :-)

Learning to handle a 21-foot boat teaches you..................how to handle a
21-foot boat. There will still be a learning curve when stepping up to the
larger vessel, and there is no valid reason to be fearful of a medium size
craft like a 30' express cruiser- even as a beginner. Again, the key is going
to be qualified, hands-on instruction in boat operation. Power Squadron and
USCG AUX courses are fine, too, but you won't learn how to handle a boat in a
classroom.

(If you notice the details in the original post, the party isn't even strictly
a beginner.)

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

G Gonna agree and disagree(I'm from the school of "boat handlers are
born, not made") with the overall jist of the thread.
If you have the basic understanding of how a boat steers and reacts to a
propeller/propellers, wind and current, to a point (and even beyond),
the size will not really matter.
In fact, the larger boat may even be the better one to learn on, since
it will tend to react more slowly and predictably.
Not everyone will learn and react the same, so my suggestion would be to
look at what you want, but get someone to take you out in it, who knows
what they are doing, and get a feel for how you feel and handle the boat.
It may be too big for you, it may not .... don't just spend 5 minutes,
spend an hour or two, and BG be brutally honest with yourself ....you
may be better off with a motorhome.

otn

PS My first powerdriven boat, other than a few outboards, was a 45'
"Liberty Launch" with a tiller and bell signals for the engine .... talk
about a learning experience!

Gould 0738 wrote:
Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn to operate a
boat properly.


I would disagree, based on experience.

My first boat was a 34-foot, single screw trawler. Twenty some years ago. No
bow thruster, no stern thruster.
No serious problem.

To this day, some experienced boaters are known to remark about my current
boat, (not much larger at just 36 feet) "How do you handle a single screw? I
have enough trouble with twins and a thruster!"

Biggest difference? I had some excellent, hands-on instruction from a qualified
instructor who knew what he was doing. Other wise, you are probably right:
if the learning process is going to involve just setting out and bouncing off
everything in sight until some workable substitute for proper technique is
accidentally stumbled upon, we should all start with a very small
dinghy.....preferably an inflatable. :-)

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

G Gonna agree and disagree(I'm from the school of "boat handlers are
born, not made") with the overall jist of the thread.
If you have the basic understanding of how a boat steers and reacts to a
propeller/propellers, wind and current, to a point (and even beyond),
the size will not really matter.
In fact, the larger boat may even be the better one to learn on, since
it will tend to react more slowly and predictably.
Not everyone will learn and react the same, so my suggestion would be to
look at what you want, but get someone to take you out in it, who knows
what they are doing, and get a feel for how you feel and handle the boat.
It may be too big for you, it may not .... don't just spend 5 minutes,
spend an hour or two, and BG be brutally honest with yourself ....you
may be better off with a motorhome.

otn

PS My first powerdriven boat, other than a few outboards, was a 45'
"Liberty Launch" with a tiller and bell signals for the engine .... talk
about a learning experience!

Gould 0738 wrote:
Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn to operate a
boat properly.


I would disagree, based on experience.

My first boat was a 34-foot, single screw trawler. Twenty some years ago. No
bow thruster, no stern thruster.
No serious problem.

To this day, some experienced boaters are known to remark about my current
boat, (not much larger at just 36 feet) "How do you handle a single screw? I
have enough trouble with twins and a thruster!"

Biggest difference? I had some excellent, hands-on instruction from a qualified
instructor who knew what he was doing. Other wise, you are probably right:
if the learning process is going to involve just setting out and bouncing off
everything in sight until some workable substitute for proper technique is
accidentally stumbled upon, we should all start with a very small
dinghy.....preferably an inflatable. :-)

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

"John" wrote in message
om...
"pmiller" wrote in message
...
After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice
from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or anything
in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with a
19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul

Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn to operate a
boat properly.

Boating is supposed to be enjoyable, it's not going to be enjoyable
when it comes time for you to dock that boat. You can learn the easy
way with a smaller, easier to handle boat, or you can learn the hard
way with the bigger boat. Your going to look like a fool trying to
dock. It will be very obvious to everyone that you don't know what
your doing. I've seen too many new boaters that bought boats that were
too big for them to handle do a lot of damage with them.

Go with the smaller boat, it's the best advice you'll ever get when it
comes to first time boats.

I own a 1997 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer - LOA 32 feet. This is my first boat and
I can honestly say that I'm glad I purchased a boat of this size. Sure,
there was a very steep learning curve and some stupid mistakes in the
beginning. I'm into my 4th year with the boat and am quite comfortable
handling her around docks. First year, there was what I like to refer to as
"major pucker factor" - especially approaching a docking situation. I
always made sure I used the ehad before getting near the dock!! Only advice
I can offer is take your time, go slow, ask for assistance and get someone
who knows how to handle boats teach you a thing or two.

Have fun,
Sandy K.

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

"John" wrote in message
om...
"pmiller" wrote in message
...
After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice
from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or anything
in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with a
19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul

Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn to operate a
boat properly.

Boating is supposed to be enjoyable, it's not going to be enjoyable
when it comes time for you to dock that boat. You can learn the easy
way with a smaller, easier to handle boat, or you can learn the hard
way with the bigger boat. Your going to look like a fool trying to
dock. It will be very obvious to everyone that you don't know what
your doing. I've seen too many new boaters that bought boats that were
too big for them to handle do a lot of damage with them.

Go with the smaller boat, it's the best advice you'll ever get when it
comes to first time boats.

I own a 1997 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer - LOA 32 feet. This is my first boat and
I can honestly say that I'm glad I purchased a boat of this size. Sure,
there was a very steep learning curve and some stupid mistakes in the
beginning. I'm into my 4th year with the boat and am quite comfortable
handling her around docks. First year, there was what I like to refer to as
"major pucker factor" - especially approaching a docking situation. I
always made sure I used the ehad before getting near the dock!! Only advice
I can offer is take your time, go slow, ask for assistance and get someone
who knows how to handle boats teach you a thing or two.

Have fun,
Sandy K.

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

"Sandy K." wrote in message ...
"John" wrote in message
om...
"pmiller" wrote in message
...
After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice
from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or anything
in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with a
19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul

Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn to operate a
boat properly.

Boating is supposed to be enjoyable, it's not going to be enjoyable
when it comes time for you to dock that boat. You can learn the easy
way with a smaller, easier to handle boat, or you can learn the hard
way with the bigger boat. Your going to look like a fool trying to
dock. It will be very obvious to everyone that you don't know what
your doing. I've seen too many new boaters that bought boats that were
too big for them to handle do a lot of damage with them.

Go with the smaller boat, it's the best advice you'll ever get when it
comes to first time boats.

I own a 1997 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer - LOA 32 feet. This is my first boat and
I can honestly say that I'm glad I purchased a boat of this size. Sure,
there was a very steep learning curve and some stupid mistakes in the
beginning. I'm into my 4th year with the boat and am quite comfortable
handling her around docks. First year, there was what I like to refer to as
"major pucker factor" - especially approaching a docking situation. I
always made sure I used the ehad before getting near the dock!! Only advice
I can offer is take your time, go slow, ask for assistance and get someone
who knows how to handle boats teach you a thing or two.

Have fun,
Sandy K.

I agree with the idea of asking someone to "show you the ropes", but
sadly, a lot of people don't. I have friends that are boat dealers,
they will tell you they can't beleave how many people with no
experiance buy large boats and just show up on their own expecting it
to be "like driving a car". Had you spent some time on the water with
a smaller boat before you bought the one you now have, that "pucker
factor" time would have been reduced to a few times out on the boat,
instead of a year long. A lot of this also has to do with what kind of
docking facilities you will be using, how congested the waterways you
will be on are, and the depth, width and currents of the waterways.
Additionally, few people who have never boated before are capable of
knowing just what kind of boat will suit their needs. They know what
they like, they know what they think they will need and they know what
appeals to them. But they know very little about boats and boating,
what's important, and what's not. They frequently find themselves a
year or two later with a boat that does not suit their needs.

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

"Sandy K." wrote in message ...
"John" wrote in message
om...
"pmiller" wrote in message
...
After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice
from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or anything
in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with a
19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul

Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn to operate a
boat properly.

Boating is supposed to be enjoyable, it's not going to be enjoyable
when it comes time for you to dock that boat. You can learn the easy
way with a smaller, easier to handle boat, or you can learn the hard
way with the bigger boat. Your going to look like a fool trying to
dock. It will be very obvious to everyone that you don't know what
your doing. I've seen too many new boaters that bought boats that were
too big for them to handle do a lot of damage with them.

Go with the smaller boat, it's the best advice you'll ever get when it
comes to first time boats.

I own a 1997 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer - LOA 32 feet. This is my first boat and
I can honestly say that I'm glad I purchased a boat of this size. Sure,
there was a very steep learning curve and some stupid mistakes in the
beginning. I'm into my 4th year with the boat and am quite comfortable
handling her around docks. First year, there was what I like to refer to as
"major pucker factor" - especially approaching a docking situation. I
always made sure I used the ehad before getting near the dock!! Only advice
I can offer is take your time, go slow, ask for assistance and get someone
who knows how to handle boats teach you a thing or two.

Have fun,
Sandy K.

I agree with the idea of asking someone to "show you the ropes", but
sadly, a lot of people don't. I have friends that are boat dealers,
they will tell you they can't beleave how many people with no
experiance buy large boats and just show up on their own expecting it
to be "like driving a car". Had you spent some time on the water with
a smaller boat before you bought the one you now have, that "pucker
factor" time would have been reduced to a few times out on the boat,
instead of a year long. A lot of this also has to do with what kind of
docking facilities you will be using, how congested the waterways you
will be on are, and the depth, width and currents of the waterways.
Additionally, few people who have never boated before are capable of
knowing just what kind of boat will suit their needs. They know what
they like, they know what they think they will need and they know what
appeals to them. But they know very little about boats and boating,
what's important, and what's not. They frequently find themselves a
year or two later with a boat that does not suit their needs.

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

They know what
they like, they know what they think they will need and they know what
appeals to them. But they know very little about boats and boating,
what's important, and what's not. They frequently find themselves a
year or two later with a boat that does not suit their needs.


A lot of boaters end up with a boat that proves to be less than ideal after a
season or two.

I still bristle at the (very common) suggestion that a prospective boater who
has done enough considering and evaluating to know he or she is looking for the
characteristics commonly associated with a 30-foot express cruiser should,
instead, buy a 20-foot runabout. That removes ending up with the "wrong" boat
from a group of possibilities and promotes it to an absolute certainty.

More people probably get out of boating because they start off with a boat that
is too small, too light, (and powered by a worn out, cantankerous, single
gasoline engine) than leave the pastime because they bought a boat that was of
adequate size and displacement for their intended purposes.

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

They know what
they like, they know what they think they will need and they know what
appeals to them. But they know very little about boats and boating,
what's important, and what's not. They frequently find themselves a
year or two later with a boat that does not suit their needs.


A lot of boaters end up with a boat that proves to be less than ideal after a
season or two.

I still bristle at the (very common) suggestion that a prospective boater who
has done enough considering and evaluating to know he or she is looking for the
characteristics commonly associated with a 30-foot express cruiser should,
instead, buy a 20-foot runabout. That removes ending up with the "wrong" boat
from a group of possibilities and promotes it to an absolute certainty.

More people probably get out of boating because they start off with a boat that
is too small, too light, (and powered by a worn out, cantankerous, single
gasoline engine) than leave the pastime because they bought a boat that was of
adequate size and displacement for their intended purposes.

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

Gould,
I'm looking to buy a 85 to 89 30 foot Sea Ray Weekender 300. I friend
has an 86 Sea Ray Sundancer 300 which is similar. I like the boat, how it
handles, the ride in a chop and the living accommodations. I wouldn't be as
satisfied in a smaller boat. Now the last boat I owned was an 18 foot
aluminum runabout. At speed it preferred to fly as opposed to go through the
water. :-)
With this new boat it'll be just like dating. Take it slow and easy, get
to learn each other. Show a lot of respect. Well it probably works better
with boats than it does with woman. :-)
Paul

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
They know what
they like, they know what they think they will need and they know what
appeals to them. But they know very little about boats and boating,
what's important, and what's not. They frequently find themselves a
year or two later with a boat that does not suit their needs.


A lot of boaters end up with a boat that proves to be less than ideal
after a
season or two.

I still bristle at the (very common) suggestion that a prospective boater
who
has done enough considering and evaluating to know he or she is looking
for the
characteristics commonly associated with a 30-foot express cruiser should,
instead, buy a 20-foot runabout. That removes ending up with the "wrong"
boat
from a group of possibilities and promotes it to an absolute certainty.

More people probably get out of boating because they start off with a boat
that
is too small, too light, (and powered by a worn out, cantankerous, single
gasoline engine) than leave the pastime because they bought a boat that
was of
adequate size and displacement for their intended purposes.

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

Gould,
I'm looking to buy a 85 to 89 30 foot Sea Ray Weekender 300. I friend
has an 86 Sea Ray Sundancer 300 which is similar. I like the boat, how it
handles, the ride in a chop and the living accommodations. I wouldn't be as
satisfied in a smaller boat. Now the last boat I owned was an 18 foot
aluminum runabout. At speed it preferred to fly as opposed to go through the
water. :-)
With this new boat it'll be just like dating. Take it slow and easy, get
to learn each other. Show a lot of respect. Well it probably works better
with boats than it does with woman. :-)
Paul

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
They know what
they like, they know what they think they will need and they know what
appeals to them. But they know very little about boats and boating,
what's important, and what's not. They frequently find themselves a
year or two later with a boat that does not suit their needs.


A lot of boaters end up with a boat that proves to be less than ideal
after a
season or two.

I still bristle at the (very common) suggestion that a prospective boater
who
has done enough considering and evaluating to know he or she is looking
for the
characteristics commonly associated with a 30-foot express cruiser should,
instead, buy a 20-foot runabout. That removes ending up with the "wrong"
boat
from a group of possibilities and promotes it to an absolute certainty.

More people probably get out of boating because they start off with a boat
that
is too small, too light, (and powered by a worn out, cantankerous, single
gasoline engine) than leave the pastime because they bought a boat that
was of
adequate size and displacement for their intended purposes.

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

"John" wrote in message
om...
"Sandy K." wrote in message
...
"John" wrote in message
om...
"pmiller" wrote in message
...
After several years of looking and saving I am finally ready to buy
my
first boat. Ive looked at boats from 26 to 34 ft and based on advice
from
many people here I am
eliminating everything over 30' as too big for a first boat.
Today I looked at a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer 1989.
The boat will be used on the Chesapeake Bay in the Annapolis MD
area.

Is there anyone here familiar with the Sundancers of that
age?

Id love to know if there were any problems with those boats or
anything
in
particular to look for.

I will of course have a survey done prior to purchase
Ive taken the powerboating course and have a little experience with
a
19'
runabout and a 24' Cruise Along
which is now in the Calvert Marine Museum.

Thanks

Paul

Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn to operate a
boat properly.

Boating is supposed to be enjoyable, it's not going to be enjoyable
when it comes time for you to dock that boat. You can learn the easy
way with a smaller, easier to handle boat, or you can learn the hard
way with the bigger boat. Your going to look like a fool trying to
dock. It will be very obvious to everyone that you don't know what
your doing. I've seen too many new boaters that bought boats that were
too big for them to handle do a lot of damage with them.

Go with the smaller boat, it's the best advice you'll ever get when it
comes to first time boats.

I own a 1997 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer - LOA 32 feet. This is my first boat
and
I can honestly say that I'm glad I purchased a boat of this size. Sure,
there was a very steep learning curve and some stupid mistakes in the
beginning. I'm into my 4th year with the boat and am quite comfortable
handling her around docks. First year, there was what I like to refer
to as
"major pucker factor" - especially approaching a docking situation. I
always made sure I used the ehad before getting near the dock!! Only
advice
I can offer is take your time, go slow, ask for assistance and get
someone
who knows how to handle boats teach you a thing or two.

Have fun,
Sandy K.

I agree with the idea of asking someone to "show you the ropes", but
sadly, a lot of people don't. I have friends that are boat dealers,
they will tell you they can't beleave how many people with no
experiance buy large boats and just show up on their own expecting it
to be "like driving a car". Had you spent some time on the water with
a smaller boat before you bought the one you now have, that "pucker
factor" time would have been reduced to a few times out on the boat,
instead of a year long. A lot of this also has to do with what kind of
docking facilities you will be using, how congested the waterways you
will be on are, and the depth, width and currents of the waterways.
Additionally, few people who have never boated before are capable of
knowing just what kind of boat will suit their needs. They know what
they like, they know what they think they will need and they know what
appeals to them. But they know very little about boats and boating,
what's important, and what's not. They frequently find themselves a
year or two later with a boat that does not suit their needs.

I would have to agree with just about all you've stated. However, hindsight
is 20/20. I did not have pucker factor for a full year - we have a
relatively short season here in NJ. the docks are all full and the
waterways are quite congested. After owning the boat for 4 years, sure I
would like something different. But then again, I haven't met too many
boaters who are 100% happy with what they have. Most all want something
bigger - I'd love to move up to a 36 foot convertible - an may do just that,
after this season.....

Sandy K.

First boat SeaRay 30' Sundancer
 

I agree with otnmbrd. You either can or can not run a boat.
Take it from one with 52 yrs at the helm. Capt. boots
"otnmbrd" wrote in message
hlink.net...
G Gonna agree and disagree(I'm from the school of "boat
handlers are
born, not made") with the overall jist of the thread.
If you have the basic understanding of how a boat steers and
reacts to a
propeller/propellers, wind and current, to a point (and even
beyond),
the size will not really matter.
In fact, the larger boat may even be the better one to learn
on, since
it will tend to react more slowly and predictably.
Not everyone will learn and react the same, so my suggestion
would be to
look at what you want, but get someone to take you out in
it, who knows
what they are doing, and get a feel for how you feel and
handle the boat.
It may be too big for you, it may not .... don't just spend
5 minutes,
spend an hour or two, and BG be brutally honest with
yourself ....you
may be better off with a motorhome.

otn

PS My first powerdriven boat, other than a few outboards,
was a 45'
"Liberty Launch" with a tiller and bell signals for the
engine .... talk
about a learning experience!

Gould 0738 wrote:
Paul,

A 30 foot boat is still too big for a first boat. Get a
boat around 21
feet long and learn what your doing with it, then move up
after two
years. It's a boat, not a car, and it takes time to learn
to operate a
boat properly.


I would disagree, based on experience.

My first boat was a 34-foot, single screw trawler. Twenty
some years ago. No
bow thruster, no stern thruster.
No serious problem.

To this day, some experienced boaters are known to remark
about my current
boat, (not much larger at just 36 feet) "How do you handle
a single screw? I
have enough trouble with twins and a thruster!"

Biggest difference? I had some excellent, hands-on
instruction from a qualified
instructor who knew what he was doing. Other wise, you are
probably right:
if the learning process is going to involve just setting
out and bouncing off
everything in sight until some workable substitute for
proper technique is
accidentally stumbled upon, we should all start with a
very small
dinghy.....preferably an inflatable. :-)