Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

I had hoped to put from my mind the sad saga of the sailing vessel "Red
Cloud" and her unqualified crew but a recent posting has brought memories of
that pathetic spectacle back to the fore.

Now that passions have cooled and supporters of an inept, incompetent
braggart of a failure have had time to re-examine their support of such a
buffoonish attempt at blue water voyaging perhaps they will listen to
reason. And here follows reason.

Reason number 1: Red Cloud's captain was too ARROGANT AND BOASTFUL. He did
not take seriously that which he should have taken seriously. He
demonstrated that he lacked the experience and know-how to prepare and sail
a vessel offshore and succeed at it.

Reason number 2: Like many here in these pretend news groups, Red Cloud's
captain DID NOT HEED THE ADVICE of those non-pretenders in this group who
offered him pearls of wisdom based on experience. No! He thought he knew it
all and, instead of a well-planned and timely voyage, his was an
ill-conceived, ill planned and ill executed plan that resulted in failure.
It really never had any chance to succeed.

Reason number 3: He boasted about the comfort of a pilot house motor sailor
while knowledgeable sailors advised him about THE DANGERS OF THOSE BIG FLAT
WINDOWS and vulnerable structure that houses them and how easily they would
be stove in by any serious seas - seas that one should expect at some time
during a blue water voyage. His claims of comfort turned out to be pitiful
in light of how uncomfortable he must have been while he was hanging above
his foundering vessel in a rescue sling catching a few last glimpses of his
unnecessarily abandoned vessel going to her watery grave.

Reason number 4: HIS CREW WAS A JOKE. His lubberly, top-heavy woman with the
manicured nails. His lubberly brother. And a poor unfortunate pooch. Did he
ever consider a qualified, sea hardened crew that would not have panicked,
faked injuries and whined when some small adversity struck?

Reason number 5: He was WARNED ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT in a Gulf cold front but
he decided he could either avoid them or cope with them. Turns out he was
unable to do either. This is very unfortunate because, though they are very
uncomfortable such a front is short-lived and really nothing that should
cause an abandonment.

Reason number 6: SHIP MANAGEMENT WAS TOTALLY LACKING. Any real blue water
captain would have done things differently. The minor sprained ankle should
have been administered to with first aid. Pain pills should have been given
and the girl should have been placed in a berth with a lee cloth to keep her
in place. Maybe a sedative should have been given if she was panicked and
whining and crying. And, the captain apparently did not even try heaving-to
or running before it. The video shows mainsail and jigger sheeted in
tightly. That's no way to heave to in a ketch. And the rudder failure? What
kind of an idiot would go to sea with a rudder with no stops or inadequate
stops if any such existed. Any real blue water sailor knows how to look
after his rudder and steering gear. You don't allow your boat to be blown
backwards using a drogue from the bows or forced head to the seas with
mizzen sail in place so the rudder takes a beating and gets slammed this way
and that. And what about adequate pumps? The holes in the transom caused by
the rudder's banging were well above the LWL so they only took water when it
splashed up or the transom pitched down. A real bilge pump could have easily
handled the ingress. And what about collision bulkheads or flotation foam?
Any real blue water boat has one or two of these forward and aft just in
case of a breached hull in those areas.

Reason number 7: Choice of a route was appalling. It was done like a
motorboat even though the motor was inoperable. Any real sailor would have
put in at Key West under sail and got his auxiliary operational. Any real
sailor, knowing cold fronts were to be expected and difficult to avoid would
have then sailed north along the west coast of Florida where shelter from
strong fronts is readily available in the inlets and bays. Then, with a good
weather window he could have taken two or three days on a nice safe and
comfortable reach across the Gulf to Texas. Instead his arrogant and
boastful nature caused him to take the motorboat route in a failed attempt
to bully his way to his destination. One NEVER does this if one is a real
blue water sailor. It's folly!

Reason number 8: The captain is a liar or confused or engaging in a cover
up! He claimed there was imminent danger of drifting into the many oil rigs
that were in his lee. Strange how he also claimed he was in 4,000 feet of
water. He says he was 200 miles south of Galveston, TX. and the depth there
is more like 8,000 feet. Sorry, but there are NO OIL PLATFORMS but one in
that depth and area. That would be the Noble Clyde Boudreaux, a high tech,
semi-submersible oil drilling platform anchored in 8000 feet of water
drilling test wells into the Perdido formation 32,000 feet below the
surface. The chances of drifting down onto the NC Boudreaux were just about
nil.

I can think of a couple more things but the above serve as good examples of
how one MUST BE HUMBLE, COMPETENT, EXPERIENCED, AND STALWART if one is going
to succeed at blue water sailing. Many try - few succeed. I can talk because
I have succeeded more times than I wish to count. Many's the time I would
have liked to throw in the towel and yell for rescue but I refused to let
discomfort and unwarranted fears get the better of me. I really feel I have
the luck, the guts, the know-how and the respect of Mother Nature that's
needed to cope with whatever the deep sea has to offer. Combine these with a
seaworthy vessel and hardened and experienced crew and you won't end up as a
bad example like the Captain of the ill-fated and prematurely abandoned "RED
CLOUD."


Wilbur Hubbard
(the original straight-talk express!)

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
I had hoped to put from my mind the sad saga of the sailing vessel "Red
Cloud" and her unqualified crew but a recent posting has brought memories
of that pathetic spectacle back to the fore.

Now that passions have cooled and supporters of an inept, incompetent
braggart of a failure have had time to re-examine their support of such a
buffoonish attempt at blue water voyaging perhaps they will listen to
reason. And here follows reason.

Reason number 1: Red Cloud's captain was too ARROGANT AND BOASTFUL. He
did not take seriously that which he should have taken seriously. He
demonstrated that he lacked the experience and know-how to prepare and
sail a vessel offshore and succeed at it.

Reason number 2: Like many here in these pretend news groups, Red Cloud's
captain DID NOT HEED THE ADVICE of those non-pretenders in this group who
offered him pearls of wisdom based on experience. No! He thought he knew
it all and, instead of a well-planned and timely voyage, his was an
ill-conceived, ill planned and ill executed plan that resulted in failure.
It really never had any chance to succeed.

Reason number 3: He boasted about the comfort of a pilot house motor
sailor while knowledgeable sailors advised him about THE DANGERS OF THOSE
BIG FLAT WINDOWS and vulnerable structure that houses them and how easily
they would be stove in by any serious seas - seas that one should expect
at some time during a blue water voyage. His claims of comfort turned out
to be pitiful in light of how uncomfortable he must have been while he was
hanging above his foundering vessel in a rescue sling catching a few last
glimpses of his unnecessarily abandoned vessel going to her watery grave.

Reason number 4: HIS CREW WAS A JOKE. His lubberly, top-heavy woman with
the manicured nails. His lubberly brother. And a poor unfortunate pooch.
Did he ever consider a qualified, sea hardened crew that would not have
panicked, faked injuries and whined when some small adversity struck?

Reason number 5: He was WARNED ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT in a Gulf cold front
but he decided he could either avoid them or cope with them. Turns out he
was unable to do either. This is very unfortunate because, though they are
very uncomfortable such a front is short-lived and really nothing that
should cause an abandonment.

Reason number 6: SHIP MANAGEMENT WAS TOTALLY LACKING. Any real blue water
captain would have done things differently. The minor sprained ankle
should have been administered to with first aid. Pain pills should have
been given and the girl should have been placed in a berth with a lee
cloth to keep her in place. Maybe a sedative should have been given if she
was panicked and whining and crying. And, the captain apparently did not
even try heaving-to or running before it. The video shows mainsail and
jigger sheeted in tightly. That's no way to heave to in a ketch. And the
rudder failure? What kind of an idiot would go to sea with a rudder with
no stops or inadequate stops if any such existed. Any real blue water
sailor knows how to look after his rudder and steering gear. You don't
allow your boat to be blown backwards using a drogue from the bows or
forced head to the seas with mizzen sail in place so the rudder takes a
beating and gets slammed this way and that. And what about adequate pumps?
The holes in the transom caused by the rudder's banging were well above
the LWL so they only took water when it splashed up or the transom pitched
down. A real bilge pump could have easily handled the ingress. And what
about collision bulkheads or flotation foam? Any real blue water boat has
one or two of these forward and aft just in case of a breached hull in
those areas.

Reason number 7: Choice of a route was appalling. It was done like a
motorboat even though the motor was inoperable. Any real sailor would have
put in at Key West under sail and got his auxiliary operational. Any real
sailor, knowing cold fronts were to be expected and difficult to avoid
would have then sailed north along the west coast of Florida where shelter
from strong fronts is readily available in the inlets and bays. Then, with
a good weather window he could have taken two or three days on a nice safe
and comfortable reach across the Gulf to Texas. Instead his arrogant and
boastful nature caused him to take the motorboat route in a failed attempt
to bully his way to his destination. One NEVER does this if one is a real
blue water sailor. It's folly!

Reason number 8: The captain is a liar or confused or engaging in a cover
up! He claimed there was imminent danger of drifting into the many oil
rigs that were in his lee. Strange how he also claimed he was in 4,000
feet of water. He says he was 200 miles south of Galveston, TX. and the
depth there is more like 8,000 feet. Sorry, but there are NO OIL PLATFORMS
but one in that depth and area. That would be the Noble Clyde Boudreaux, a
high tech, semi-submersible oil drilling platform anchored in 8000 feet of
water drilling test wells into the Perdido formation 32,000 feet below the
surface. The chances of drifting down onto the NC Boudreaux were just
about nil.

I can think of a couple more things but the above serve as good examples
of how one MUST BE HUMBLE, COMPETENT, EXPERIENCED, AND STALWART if one is
going to succeed at blue water sailing. Many try - few succeed. I can talk
because I have succeeded more times than I wish to count. Many's the time
I would have liked to throw in the towel and yell for rescue but I refused
to let discomfort and unwarranted fears get the better of me. I really
feel I have the luck, the guts, the know-how and the respect of Mother
Nature that's needed to cope with whatever the deep sea has to offer.
Combine these with a seaworthy vessel and hardened and experienced crew
and you won't end up as a bad example like the Captain of the ill-fated
and prematurely abandoned "RED CLOUD."


Wilbur Hubbard
(the original straight-talk express!)




Didn't I see that the Red Cloud was recovered? Beat up but floating?

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

"Thomas, Spring Point Light" wrote in message
news:l6SKj.1529$Xy2.29@trndny04...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
I had hoped to put from my mind the sad saga of the sailing vessel "Red
Cloud" and her unqualified crew but a recent posting has brought memories
of that pathetic spectacle back to the fore.

Now that passions have cooled and supporters of an inept, incompetent
braggart of a failure have had time to re-examine their support of such a
buffoonish attempt at blue water voyaging perhaps they will listen to
reason. And here follows reason.

Reason number 1: Red Cloud's captain was too ARROGANT AND BOASTFUL. He
did not take seriously that which he should have taken seriously. He
demonstrated that he lacked the experience and know-how to prepare and
sail a vessel offshore and succeed at it.

Reason number 2: Like many here in these pretend news groups, Red Cloud's
captain DID NOT HEED THE ADVICE of those non-pretenders in this group who
offered him pearls of wisdom based on experience. No! He thought he knew
it all and, instead of a well-planned and timely voyage, his was an
ill-conceived, ill planned and ill executed plan that resulted in
failure. It really never had any chance to succeed.

Reason number 3: He boasted about the comfort of a pilot house motor
sailor while knowledgeable sailors advised him about THE DANGERS OF THOSE
BIG FLAT WINDOWS and vulnerable structure that houses them and how easily
they would be stove in by any serious seas - seas that one should expect
at some time during a blue water voyage. His claims of comfort turned out
to be pitiful in light of how uncomfortable he must have been while he
was hanging above his foundering vessel in a rescue sling catching a few
last glimpses of his unnecessarily abandoned vessel going to her watery
grave.

Reason number 4: HIS CREW WAS A JOKE. His lubberly, top-heavy woman with
the manicured nails. His lubberly brother. And a poor unfortunate pooch.
Did he ever consider a qualified, sea hardened crew that would not have
panicked, faked injuries and whined when some small adversity struck?

Reason number 5: He was WARNED ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT in a Gulf cold front
but he decided he could either avoid them or cope with them. Turns out he
was unable to do either. This is very unfortunate because, though they
are very uncomfortable such a front is short-lived and really nothing
that should cause an abandonment.

Reason number 6: SHIP MANAGEMENT WAS TOTALLY LACKING. Any real blue water
captain would have done things differently. The minor sprained ankle
should have been administered to with first aid. Pain pills should have
been given and the girl should have been placed in a berth with a lee
cloth to keep her in place. Maybe a sedative should have been given if
she was panicked and whining and crying. And, the captain apparently did
not even try heaving-to or running before it. The video shows mainsail
and jigger sheeted in tightly. That's no way to heave to in a ketch. And
the rudder failure? What kind of an idiot would go to sea with a rudder
with no stops or inadequate stops if any such existed. Any real blue
water sailor knows how to look after his rudder and steering gear. You
don't allow your boat to be blown backwards using a drogue from the bows
or forced head to the seas with mizzen sail in place so the rudder takes
a beating and gets slammed this way and that. And what about adequate
pumps? The holes in the transom caused by the rudder's banging were well
above the LWL so they only took water when it splashed up or the transom
pitched down. A real bilge pump could have easily handled the ingress.
And what about collision bulkheads or flotation foam? Any real blue water
boat has one or two of these forward and aft just in case of a breached
hull in those areas.

Reason number 7: Choice of a route was appalling. It was done like a
motorboat even though the motor was inoperable. Any real sailor would
have put in at Key West under sail and got his auxiliary operational. Any
real sailor, knowing cold fronts were to be expected and difficult to
avoid would have then sailed north along the west coast of Florida where
shelter from strong fronts is readily available in the inlets and bays.
Then, with a good weather window he could have taken two or three days on
a nice safe and comfortable reach across the Gulf to Texas. Instead his
arrogant and boastful nature caused him to take the motorboat route in a
failed attempt to bully his way to his destination. One NEVER does this
if one is a real blue water sailor. It's folly!

Reason number 8: The captain is a liar or confused or engaging in a cover
up! He claimed there was imminent danger of drifting into the many oil
rigs that were in his lee. Strange how he also claimed he was in 4,000
feet of water. He says he was 200 miles south of Galveston, TX. and the
depth there is more like 8,000 feet. Sorry, but there are NO OIL
PLATFORMS but one in that depth and area. That would be the Noble Clyde
Boudreaux, a high tech, semi-submersible oil drilling platform anchored
in 8000 feet of water drilling test wells into the Perdido formation
32,000 feet below the surface. The chances of drifting down onto the NC
Boudreaux were just about nil.

I can think of a couple more things but the above serve as good examples
of how one MUST BE HUMBLE, COMPETENT, EXPERIENCED, AND STALWART if one is
going to succeed at blue water sailing. Many try - few succeed. I can
talk because I have succeeded more times than I wish to count. Many's the
time I would have liked to throw in the towel and yell for rescue but I
refused to let discomfort and unwarranted fears get the better of me. I
really feel I have the luck, the guts, the know-how and the respect of
Mother Nature that's needed to cope with whatever the deep sea has to
offer. Combine these with a seaworthy vessel and hardened and experienced
crew and you won't end up as a bad example like the Captain of the
ill-fated and prematurely abandoned "RED CLOUD."


Wilbur Hubbard
(the original straight-talk express!)




Didn't I see that the Red Cloud was recovered? Beat up but floating?


Some Rube posted a link to a supposed Red Cloud but it was not the real
thing. Last I heard the Captain of the "Red Cloud" himself stated she was
'gone.'

Wilbur Hubbard
(grounded in reality)

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Thomas, Spring Point Light wrote:




Didn't I see that the Red Cloud was recovered? Beat up but floating?


Some reason you had to quote the whole piece of bull**** for a one line
response?

Cheers
Marty

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

"Marty" wrote in message
...
Some reason you had to quote the whole piece of bull**** for a one line
response?

Cheers
Marty

Maybe the dude doesn't have a closed mind like you do? Maybe he knows the
truth when he reads the truth? Maybe he's not a whiner and complainer like
you. Maybe he doesn't read newsgroups as an excuse engage in censorship?

--
Gregory Hall


Wilbur Hubbard wrote the following great post:

I had hoped to put from my mind the sad saga of the sailing vessel "Red
Cloud" and her unqualified crew but a recent posting has brought memories of
that pathetic spectacle back to the fore.

Now that passions have cooled and supporters of an inept, incompetent
braggart of a failure have had time to re-examine their support of such a
buffoonish attempt at blue water voyaging perhaps they will listen to
reason. And here follows reason.

Reason number 1: Red Cloud's captain was too ARROGANT AND BOASTFUL. He did
not take seriously that which he should have taken seriously. He
demonstrated that he lacked the experience and know-how to prepare and sail
a vessel offshore and succeed at it.

Reason number 2: Like many here in these pretend news groups, Red Cloud's
captain DID NOT HEED THE ADVICE of those non-pretenders in this group who
offered him pearls of wisdom based on experience. No! He thought he knew it
all and, instead of a well-planned and timely voyage, his was an
ill-conceived, ill planned and ill executed plan that resulted in failure.
It really never had any chance to succeed.

Reason number 3: He boasted about the comfort of a pilot house motor sailor
while knowledgeable sailors advised him about THE DANGERS OF THOSE BIG FLAT
WINDOWS and vulnerable structure that houses them and how easily they would
be stove in by any serious seas - seas that one should expect at some time
during a blue water voyage. His claims of comfort turned out to be pitiful
in light of how uncomfortable he must have been while he was hanging above
his foundering vessel in a rescue sling catching a few last glimpses of his
unnecessarily abandoned vessel going to her watery grave.

Reason number 4: HIS CREW WAS A JOKE. His lubberly, top-heavy woman with the
manicured nails. His lubberly brother. And a poor unfortunate pooch. Did he
ever consider a qualified, sea hardened crew that would not have panicked,
faked injuries and whined when some small adversity struck?

Reason number 5: He was WARNED ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT in a Gulf cold front but
he decided he could either avoid them or cope with them. Turns out he was
unable to do either. This is very unfortunate because, though they are very
uncomfortable such a front is short-lived and really nothing that should
cause an abandonment.

Reason number 6: SHIP MANAGEMENT WAS TOTALLY LACKING. Any real blue water
captain would have done things differently. The minor sprained ankle should
have been administered to with first aid. Pain pills should have been given
and the girl should have been placed in a berth with a lee cloth to keep her
in place. Maybe a sedative should have been given if she was panicked and
whining and crying. And, the captain apparently did not even try heaving-to
or running before it. The video shows mainsail and jigger sheeted in
tightly. That's no way to heave to in a ketch. And the rudder failure? What
kind of an idiot would go to sea with a rudder with no stops or inadequate
stops if any such existed. Any real blue water sailor knows how to look
after his rudder and steering gear. You don't allow your boat to be blown
backwards using a drogue from the bows or forced head to the seas with
mizzen sail in place so the rudder takes a beating and gets slammed this way
and that. And what about adequate pumps? The holes in the transom caused by
the rudder's banging were well above the LWL so they only took water when it
splashed up or the transom pitched down. A real bilge pump could have easily
handled the ingress. And what about collision bulkheads or flotation foam?
Any real blue water boat has one or two of these forward and aft just in
case of a breached hull in those areas.

Reason number 7: Choice of a route was appalling. It was done like a
motorboat even though the motor was inoperable. Any real sailor would have
put in at Key West under sail and got his auxiliary operational. Any real
sailor, knowing cold fronts were to be expected and difficult to avoid would
have then sailed north along the west coast of Florida where shelter from
strong fronts is readily available in the inlets and bays. Then, with a good
weather window he could have taken two or three days on a nice safe and
comfortable reach across the Gulf to Texas. Instead his arrogant and
boastful nature caused him to take the motorboat route in a failed attempt
to bully his way to his destination. One NEVER does this if one is a real
blue water sailor. It's folly!

Reason number 8: The captain is a liar or confused or engaging in a cover
up! He claimed there was imminent danger of drifting into the many oil rigs
that were in his lee. Strange how he also claimed he was in 4,000 feet of
water. He says he was 200 miles south of Galveston, TX. and the depth there
is more like 8,000 feet. Sorry, but there are NO OIL PLATFORMS but one in
that depth and area. That would be the Noble Clyde Boudreaux, a high tech,
semi-submersible oil drilling platform anchored in 8000 feet of water
drilling test wells into the Perdido formation 32,000 feet below the
surface. The chances of drifting down onto the NC Boudreaux were just about
nil.

I can think of a couple more things but the above serve as good examples of
how one MUST BE HUMBLE, COMPETENT, EXPERIENCED, AND STALWART if one is going
to succeed at blue water sailing. Many try - few succeed. I can talk because
I have succeeded more times than I wish to count. Many's the time I would
have liked to throw in the towel and yell for rescue but I refused to let
discomfort and unwarranted fears get the better of me. I really feel I have
the luck, the guts, the know-how and the respect of Mother Nature that's
needed to cope with whatever the deep sea has to offer. Combine these with a
seaworthy vessel and hardened and experienced crew and you won't end up as a
bad example like the Captain of the ill-fated and prematurely abandoned "RED
CLOUD."


Wilbur Hubbard
(the original straight-talk express!)

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:26:38 -0400, Marty wrote:

Thomas, Spring Point Light wrote:




Didn't I see that the Red Cloud was recovered? Beat up but floating?


Some reason you had to quote the whole piece of bull**** for a one line
response?

Cheers
Marty


Obviously Wilder doing for a re-post of his message under yet another
nom de plume.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

Spare us.

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
news:kZmdnW8-pbtstmHanZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@isomediainc...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

Spare us.



Jeez what a closed minded nitwit you are, Tom! One must wonder why you
bother reading discussion groups.

So, instead of whining, next time spare yourself yourself. It's not my job
to do it. And, what's with the "us." How dare you presume to speak for
everybody else?

Now, bugger off ******!

Wilbur Hubbard

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
news:kZmdnW8-pbtstmHanZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@isomediainc...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
ctanews.com...

Spare us.




Jeez what a closed minded nitwit you are, Tom! One must wonder why you
bother reading discussion groups.

So, instead of whining, next time spare yourself yourself. It's not my job
to do it. And, what's with the "us." How dare you presume to speak for
everybody else?

Now, bugger off ******!

Wilbur Hubbard

Neal (Wilbur), what boat are you sailing these days? Or are you sailing
at all? Pictures?

Jim

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:19:21 GMT, JimC wrote:



Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
news:kZmdnW8-pbtstmHanZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@isomediainc...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
. octanews.com...

Spare us.




Jeez what a closed minded nitwit you are, Tom! One must wonder why you
bother reading discussion groups.

So, instead of whining, next time spare yourself yourself. It's not my job
to do it. And, what's with the "us." How dare you presume to speak for
everybody else?

Now, bugger off ******!

Wilbur Hubbard

Neal (Wilbur), what boat are you sailing these days? Or are you sailing
at all? Pictures?

Jim

My dear Sir. The famed Wilbur is not so crass as to post the details
of his earth shaking cruising exploits for all and sundry to peruse.

My goodness, one does not discuss one's own exploits, no matter how
exemplary they may be. The chaps would view that in much the same
light as an individual so declasse' as to pass the Port to the right.

No, the famed cruising expert and Internet habitue restricts the
details of his celebrated voyaging which are solely for his own
edification and certainly not for the commonality to salivate over.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


My dear Sir. The famed Wilbur is not so crass as to post the details
of his earth shaking cruising exploits for all and sundry to peruse.

My goodness, one does not discuss one's own exploits, no matter how
exemplary they may be. The chaps would view that in much the same
light as an individual so declasse' as to pass the Port to the right.

No, the famed cruising expert and Internet habitue restricts the
details of his celebrated voyaging which are solely for his own
edification and certainly not for the commonality to salivate over.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)


Now THAT is class...

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Apr 9, 9:19 pm, JimC wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
news:kZmdnW8-pbtstmHanZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@isomediainc...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
ctanews.com...

Spare us.

Jeez what a closed minded nitwit you are, Tom! One must wonder why you
bother reading discussion groups.

So, instead of whining, next time spare yourself yourself. It's not my job
to do it. And, what's with the "us." How dare you presume to speak for
everybody else?

Now, bugger off ******!

Wilbur Hubbard

Neal (Wilbur), what boat are you sailing these days? Or are you sailing
at all? Pictures?

Jim



Of course he's not sailing. He's so pathetic that he takes photos of
other boats and claims they're his. He's a sad sockpuppet who hides
because he must. He doesn't sail at all. If he did he'd post a pic or
two and troll with that.



The Better Captain
35s5
NY

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 06:17:54 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

"cavelamb himself" wrote

Now THAT is class...


Gee, three of my cruising exploits are being published as articles in
"Points East" http://www.pointseast.com this year.

That must make me a world class porker among the Port drinkers of the
world:)


Assuming that "pointeast" is a Maine publication one does not worry
about passing the Port to the left (Port). One worries about grabbing
the beer before Lew Boudearu gets it.

And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 06:17:54 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:


"cavelamb himself" wrote

Now THAT is class...


Gee, three of my cruising exploits are being published as articles in
"Points East" http://www.pointseast.com this year.

That must make me a world class porker among the Port drinkers of the
world:)



Assuming that "pointeast" is a Maine publication one does not worry
about passing the Port to the left (Port). One worries about grabbing
the beer before Lew Boudearu gets it.

And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)


I "kinda" did that once in the Gulf - shrimpin'
3 Good ol' boys in a 14 foot jon boat with a case of beer.

We had quite a haul for the Jumbo that weekend.
And all God's cute little slimy creatures in the bottom of the boat.

Closest I've ever come to being green gilled sea sick!

Richard
--
(remove the X to email)

Now just why the HELL do I have to press 1 for English?
John Wayne

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)

Shorts and scrambled eggs, breakfast of Champions!

Cheers
Marty

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:13:14 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)

Shorts and scrambled eggs, breakfast of Champions!

Cheers
Marty


Goodness, and here I thought that all RBC folks were law abiding good
guys. I mention "short lobsters" and it seems like everybody knows
what I'm talking about. Next thing I'm going to mention "jack
lighting" to see if there are any deer hunters in the crowd.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:13:14 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)
Shorts and scrambled eggs, breakfast of Champions!

Cheers
Marty


Goodness, and here I thought that all RBC folks were law abiding good
guys. I mention "short lobsters" and it seems like everybody knows
what I'm talking about. Next thing I'm going to mention "jack
lighting" to see if there are any deer hunters in the crowd.

Had friends on Grand Manan Island when I was young. "Honest Officer,
those little fellers was killed by the big lads in the pots, once we had
em in the boat it seemed like it'd just be polluting to throw them back..."

No deer there, but the island I currently live on has plenty, and a
number of people with apparently impaired night vision; why else would
they have those giant lights on the cab roof?

Cheers
Marty

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Apr 11, 9:34�am, Martin Baxter wrote:
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:13:14 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)
Shorts and scrambled eggs, breakfast of Champions!

Cheers
Marty

Goodness, and here I thought that all RBC folks were law abiding good
guys. I mention "short lobsters" and it seems like everybody knows
what I'm talking about. Next thing I'm going to mention "jack
lighting" to see if there are any deer hunters in the crowd.

Had friends on Grand Manan Island when I was young. "Honest Officer,
those little fellers was killed by the big lads in the pots, once we had
em in the boat it seemed like it'd just be polluting to throw them back..."

No deer there, but the island I currently live on has plenty, and a
number of people with apparently impaired night vision; why else would
they have those giant lights on the cab roof?

Cheers
Marty- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Knew this was a lie when I read "Had friends..."



The Good Captain
35s5
NY

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:33:10 -0700 (PDT), "Capt. Rob"
wrote:

On Apr 11, 9:34?am, Martin Baxter wrote:
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:13:14 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)
Shorts and scrambled eggs, breakfast of Champions!

Cheers
Marty

Goodness, and here I thought that all RBC folks were law abiding good
guys. I mention "short lobsters" and it seems like everybody knows
what I'm talking about. Next thing I'm going to mention "jack
lighting" to see if there are any deer hunters in the crowd.

Had friends on Grand Manan Island when I was young. "Honest Officer,
those little fellers was killed by the big lads in the pots, once we had
em in the boat it seemed like it'd just be polluting to throw them back..."

No deer there, but the island I currently live on has plenty, and a
number of people with apparently impaired night vision; why else would
they have those giant lights on the cab roof?

Cheers
Marty- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Knew this was a lie when I read "Had friends..."



The Good Captain
35s5
NY

In the some sixty years that I've been messing around in boats I have
never heard a professional seaman refer to himself as "the good
captain" so I assume that you are some sort of ignoramus that knows
nothing and rates right along side such other sterling examples of
stupidity as the Good Captain Neil and Wilbur (the guy that can't
spell his name correctly) for competency.

So, good but good captain and into the hopper you go.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

In article ,
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


In the some sixty years that I've been messing around in boats I have
never heard a professional seaman refer to himself as "the good
captain" so I assume that you are some sort of ignoramus that knows
nothing and rates right along side such other sterling examples of
stupidity as the Good Captain Neil and Wilbur (the guy that can't
spell his name correctly) for competency.

I sailed into harbor in W Fla for the night and was addressed as
'Captain' by the dockie. I was single-handing but I still squirm with
embarrassment as I don't consider myself to be experienced enough to
earn that title.

And I don't know when/if I'll be comfortable with it either.

However, someone has to be in charge (me).. Hmm, a quandary!

--
Molesworth

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

"Molesworth" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


In the some sixty years that I've been messing around in boats I have
never heard a professional seaman refer to himself as "the good
captain" so I assume that you are some sort of ignoramus that knows
nothing and rates right along side such other sterling examples of
stupidity as the Good Captain Neil and Wilbur (the guy that can't
spell his name correctly) for competency.

I sailed into harbor in W Fla for the night and was addressed as
'Captain' by the dockie. I was single-handing but I still squirm with
embarrassment as I don't consider myself to be experienced enough to
earn that title.

And I don't know when/if I'll be comfortable with it either.

However, someone has to be in charge (me).. Hmm, a quandary!

--
Molesworth


Very accurate assessment of them both. In a couple of VHF communications
with the CG, one time they called me captain, but all the rest called me
skipper. I felt a little odd answering to the former. The LT in charge of
the Mexican Navy used the term capeetan, which I assumed was the same thing.
LOL


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

"Molesworth" wrote in message
...
I sailed into harbor in W Fla for the night and was addressed as
'Captain' by the dockie. I was single-handing but I still squirm with
embarrassment as I don't consider myself to be experienced enough to
earn that title.

And I don't know when/if I'll be comfortable with it either.

However, someone has to be in charge (me).. Hmm, a quandary!

No quandary really.
You were undoubtedly the 'Skipper' of your vessel.
The word 'Captain' is greatly misused especially on this ng and you
certainly cannot be a captain if you do not have a crew..

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:40:41 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote this crap:

Very accurate assessment of them both. In a couple of VHF communications
with the CG, one time they called me captain, but all the rest called me
skipper. I felt a little odd answering to the former. The LT in charge of
the Mexican Navy used the term capeetan, which I assumed was the same thing.
LOL


Oooh! wow! They called you, "captain," over the radio. I'm so
unimpressed. They called me, "Captain Horvath," in the army, and many
brave men saluted me. I was a real captain.

I was known throughout the land as, "Captain Horvath, Defender of
Freedom."

And I have the paperwork to prove it.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Goodness, and here I thought that all RBC folks were law abiding good
guys. I mention "short lobsters" and it seems like everybody knows
what I'm talking about. Next thing I'm going to mention "jack
lighting" to see if there are any deer hunters in the crowd.


No, absolutely not. Never.
Although I did have a car with one headlight bent upward a little,
years ago... somehow passed the state inspection anyway ;)

DSK

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:28:41 -0500, Molesworth
wrote:

In article ,
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


In the some sixty years that I've been messing around in boats I have
never heard a professional seaman refer to himself as "the good
captain" so I assume that you are some sort of ignoramus that knows
nothing and rates right along side such other sterling examples of
stupidity as the Good Captain Neil and Wilbur (the guy that can't
spell his name correctly) for competency.

I sailed into harbor in W Fla for the night and was addressed as
'Captain' by the dockie. I was single-handing but I still squirm with
embarrassment as I don't consider myself to be experienced enough to
earn that title.

And I don't know when/if I'll be comfortable with it either.

However, someone has to be in charge (me).. Hmm, a quandary!

It is common courtesy to address the master of a vessel as "Captain"
but one does not introduce one's self as Captain unless one is a
serving military officer in which case it is proper to announce one's
rank, primarily so that others know how to address you.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 05:34:03 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Goodness, and here I thought that all RBC folks were law abiding good
guys. I mention "short lobsters" and it seems like everybody knows
what I'm talking about. Next thing I'm going to mention "jack
lighting" to see if there are any deer hunters in the crowd.


No, absolutely not. Never.
Although I did have a car with one headlight bent upward a little,
years ago... somehow passed the state inspection anyway ;)

DSK
Next you'll be telling me about how the kid taped that stupid 5 cell
flashlight under the barrel on the 30-30 so he could shoot rats after
dark...... Right!


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'REDCLOUD'
 

Bloody Horvath wrote:
.... They called me, "Captain Horvath," in the army, and many
brave men saluted me. I was a real captain.


You may have been a real Captain, but still outranked by a Navy
Lieutenant.

If I were to claim a title, I'd be just as happy to be the senior
petty officer on board. That leaves no doubt as to who is really in
charge in any emergency, yet I can still loaf most of the time.

former BT1(SW) Doug King

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

In article ,
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:28:41 -0500, Molesworth
wrote:

In article ,
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


In the some sixty years that I've been messing around in boats I have
never heard a professional seaman refer to himself as "the good
captain" so I assume that you are some sort of ignoramus that knows
nothing and rates right along side such other sterling examples of
stupidity as the Good Captain Neil and Wilbur (the guy that can't
spell his name correctly) for competency.

I sailed into harbor in W Fla for the night and was addressed as
'Captain' by the dockie. I was single-handing but I still squirm with
embarrassment as I don't consider myself to be experienced enough to
earn that title.

And I don't know when/if I'll be comfortable with it either.

However, someone has to be in charge (me).. Hmm, a quandary!

It is common courtesy to address the master of a vessel as "Captain"
but one does not introduce one's self as Captain unless one is a
serving military officer in which case it is proper to announce one's
rank, primarily so that others know how to address you.

But 'Corporal' doesn't have the same ring, now does it?

LOL

However, I can live with 'Skipper'.

--
Molesworth (ex-Corporal, Royal Engineers)

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 06:50:58 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap:

Bloody Horvath wrote:

.... They called me, "Captain Horvath," in the army, and many
brave men saluted me. I was a real captain.


You may have been a real Captain, but still outranked by a Navy
Lieutenant.


There's different grades of lieutenants in the navy. An army captain
outranks them all.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

wrote in message
...
Bloody Horvath wrote:
.... They called me, "Captain Horvath," in the army, and many
brave men saluted me. I was a real captain.


You may have been a real Captain, but still outranked by a Navy
Lieutenant.

If I were to claim a title, I'd be just as happy to be the senior
petty officer on board. That leaves no doubt as to who is really in
charge in any emergency, yet I can still loaf most of the time.

former BT1(SW) Doug King


Horvath is a hero... in his own mind. Don't destroy that for him.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'REDCLOUD'
 

You may have been a real Captain, but still outranked by a Navy
Lieutenant.

Bloody Horvath wrote:
There's different grades of lieutenants in the navy.

True.
If you get right down to that, there are different grades of
lieutenants in the Army, too. But they start one rank lower than Navy
Lieutenants

.... An army captain
outranks them all.


Nope
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theor...fficerrank.htm

DSK

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On 2008-04-12 09:41:19 -0400, Bruce in Bangkok said:

Next you'll be telling me about how the kid taped that stupid 5 cell
flashlight under the barrel on the 30-30 so he could shoot rats after
dark...... Right!

In NJ, those so-annoying deer are known as brown rats. And if I lived
there, I'd likely be that "kid". They are a hazard to navigation.

Luckily, I live in PA which recognizes that more deer live within the
state than did during colonial times. Friend of mine enjoys bow-hunting
deer in a park within the Philadelphia city limits each year. (arrows
which miss their mark don't usually go very much further.)

I'm still annoyed that a stupid deer took out my last car in MD. Damned
thing didn't even have the decency to die in the conflict.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Capt. Rob wrote:



Knew this was a lie when I read "Had friends..."

I do annoy you don't I Bob? Oh well, class, tact and intelligence
usually anger bluster, brawn and stupidity. You remain the "Charlie the
Tuna" of Usenet.

Cheers
Marty

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:20:19 -0500, Molesworth
wrote:

In article ,
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:28:41 -0500, Molesworth
wrote:

In article ,
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


In the some sixty years that I've been messing around in boats I have
never heard a professional seaman refer to himself as "the good
captain" so I assume that you are some sort of ignoramus that knows
nothing and rates right along side such other sterling examples of
stupidity as the Good Captain Neil and Wilbur (the guy that can't
spell his name correctly) for competency.

I sailed into harbor in W Fla for the night and was addressed as
'Captain' by the dockie. I was single-handing but I still squirm with
embarrassment as I don't consider myself to be experienced enough to
earn that title.

And I don't know when/if I'll be comfortable with it either.

However, someone has to be in charge (me).. Hmm, a quandary!

It is common courtesy to address the master of a vessel as "Captain"
but one does not introduce one's self as Captain unless one is a
serving military officer in which case it is proper to announce one's
rank, primarily so that others know how to address you.

But 'Corporal' doesn't have the same ring, now does it?

LOL

However, I can live with 'Skipper'.


I didn't want to get into all the details of military service and
protocol but in the military it is only polite to inform others of
your rank as it forewarns them on how you are to be treated. Do we
send a staff car? Which quarters are to be assigned and so on.

I met a bloke one evening as I was arriving at a new base. He was
wearing a pair of utility trousers and an old flight jacket with no
insignia. I spent some time informing this new bloke of all the horror
stories I had heard about the new squadron. The next morning when I
marched in, all polished and spit shined, to report to the new
commander guess who it was. It would have been far less embarrassing
to me, at least, if he had been wearing his rank badges like he should
have been.



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Molesworth wrote:

In article ,
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:28:41 -0500, Molesworth
wrote:

In article ,
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


In the some sixty years that I've been messing around in boats I have
never heard a professional seaman refer to himself as "the good
captain" so I assume that you are some sort of ignoramus that knows
nothing and rates right along side such other sterling examples of
stupidity as the Good Captain Neil and Wilbur (the guy that can't
spell his name correctly) for competency.

I sailed into harbor in W Fla for the night and was addressed as
'Captain' by the dockie. I was single-handing but I still squirm with
embarrassment as I don't consider myself to be experienced enough to
earn that title.

And I don't know when/if I'll be comfortable with it either.

However, someone has to be in charge (me).. Hmm, a quandary!

It is common courtesy to address the master of a vessel as "Captain"
but one does not introduce one's self as Captain unless one is a
serving military officer in which case it is proper to announce one's
rank, primarily so that others know how to address you.

Yes - my daughter was walking across an AF base one day in civvies and
one of the enlisted guys started to chat her up. At some point early
in the conversation, she had to explain that she was an officer (and
also engaged to be married)

A Navy/CG Captain is the equivalent of an Army/AF/Marine Colonel.
A Navy Commander is the equivalent of an Army Lt. Colonel
A Navy Lt. Commander is the equivalent of an Army Major
A Navy Lt. is the equivalent of an Army Captain
A Navy Lt. junior grade is the equivalent of an army 1st Lt.

I used to coach an age group swim team on a Navy base, and I let the
active duty guys practice with us - some of them did Masters swimming.
One of the guys was an AF Captain. Since this was a Navy base, there
were some raised eyebrows when the kids cheered for him by yelling Go
Captain. Because in the Navy, Captain is a pretty exalted rank.


But 'Corporal' doesn't have the same ring, now does it?

LOL

Isn't a Corporal enlisted? (i.e. not an officer). The equivalent of
a Petty Officer third class.

However, I can live with 'Skipper'.

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

Molesworth wrote:


But 'Corporal' doesn't have the same ring, now does it?

LOL

Isn't a Corporal enlisted? (i.e. not an officer). The equivalent of
a Petty Officer third class.

yep - all the fun, none of the responsibility!

Molesworth - (also ex-CEO - is that better?)

'Captain' (was) Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Rosalie B. wrote in
:

I used to coach an age group swim team on a Navy base, and I let the
active duty guys practice with us - some of them did Masters swimming.
One of the guys was an AF Captain. Since this was a Navy base, there
were some raised eyebrows when the kids cheered for him by yelling Go
Captain. Because in the Navy, Captain is a pretty exalted rank.



I had a buddy who was an AF captain. Some idiot made the mistake of
sending this misfit as the AF liason to a Navy unit on a Navy base. Stan
said he loved the Navy! They put him up in a VERY nice little house
because he was a captain, instead of housing him at the BOQ. And, when he
wanted to go to the O-club, he could call a number and say, "This is
Captain Kohli at (his address), can you send a car around to take me to the
O-club?" and a nice sailor in his whites would show up in a brand new car.

They had a lot of trouble "recovering" Stan from the Navy base. For some
reason, he never wanted to leave!