Tom is a good sailor but his boat had been built in 1972 and was a
poorly made cheapie even then. His total lack of ability at
maintaining anything meant that whenever he tried to fix anything it
was afterwards so that eventually his 28' boat became a deathtrap of
fraying standing rigging, unraveling lines and corroded thru-hulls and
I lost contact with him.
Recently, I met an enthusiastic new sailor who began to describe his
newly purchased old boat and soon I realized I knew the boat. OMG, he
bought TOM's boat and he proudly that with a little TLC she will go
anywhere. This boat belonged in a landfill in 1972. When I said I
knew the boat he new owner really wanted me to look at her which I was
loathe to do because I didn't have the heart to tell him that his
purchase was garbage. Fortunately, I decided that this boat would
never move because I knew that her prop was a huge mass of oyster
shells so I thought I'd never see her. WRONG.
Today, at my dock, suddenly I meet the enthusiastic owner of Tom's
boat telling me she was now at my marina. I was puzzled and asked how
she had gotten there and he told me that someone had towed him. I
inwardly marveled that she hadn't sunk in transit even though it is
only about 3 miles and agree to look at her.
From a distance she looked the same tired poorly made 1970s design
plastic boat with gel coat that was actually worn off. Up close, the
first thing I noticed was the shroud that had broken and had been
simply wrapped around a "Quik Link" and then swaged to itself with a
hardware swage. The nearby shroud fittings were actually swollen by
the shrouds pulling out of the cracked 35 yr old turnbuckles. These
shrouds were too small 35 yrs ago and today are probably weaker than
kitestring so I didn't dare pull on one.
I stepped aboard and when my feet hit the cockpit floor the whole boat
"squirmed" in an odd way. "Huh, OMG, there is nothing structural
underneath this" I realized. Stepped into the cabin and found myself
facing the forward bulkhead whose vynal veneer had peeled off to
reveal the plywood structure had totally delaminated and even had a
ragged hole all the way through the rotten panel. The square cross
section compression post had layers of formica drapping off it in
delaminated waves and I didn't even want to look at it. I told him
"This MUST be fixed before you go anywhere" and then looked down into
a locker where I saw something I have read about but have never
actually seen before, a seriously corroded brass gate valve on a thru
hull. It had a chain with a lock on it holding it closed and I didn't
dare touch it for fear it would break off sinking her right there. I
said "This has to go".
Next, he showed me the engine. I knew the old Atomic 4 had been
replaced but I had to marvel at how the ancient Yanmar YSE-8 had been
made to fit by cutting into the structure around the engine
compartment to fit the horizontal cylinders structure. The owner
proudly jams a jumper cable onto a battery and she actually cranks up
and runs well. I also see that the temp sensor wires had simply been
clipped off long ago and that Tom had put an alternator from his
wrecked Suzuki Samurai on her. I was smelling diesel fumes so looked
at the mixing elbow from which a rubber hose was attached to a 2"
SCH40 PVC pipe (by now this did not surprise me) and I traced it
expecting it to go through a thru hull or into some type of muffler.
NOPE, it simply terminated in the interior of the engine compartment,
no wonder there were exhaust fumes. Even now, I cannot figure out
where the raw engine coollant was going but this might be why the
bilge pump kept going on. Back in the dim area behind the engine, I
see an old Yanmar control panel dangling in the dark with the ignition
switch hard wired across.
I'd seen enough and stepped out into the cockpit and the boat squirmed
again and I realized her entire structure was bad. It felt as if maybe
all the tabbing had long broken from all interior bulkheads. The
owner said "All she needs is some TLC, right?". I replied "Yes, a lot
of TLC". Stepping off I noticed the decking around where the shroud
tangs enter the deck. The tangs had pulled right out of the deck
causing the entire deck area to splinter. This had simply been
pressed back down and cemented over with hardware store epoxy.
I had no idea what to say to her owner. It wouldn't be that I'd be
afraid to sail her so much as that I'd be afraid to even untie her
from the dock. If I was her owner I'd also be afraid to leave her
tied to the dock because she is a danger to the dock.
What would you tell this guy?

On 2008-04-05 22:55:02 -0400, said:

Tom is a good sailor but his boat had been built in 1972 and was a
poorly made cheapie even then.
really big snip
What would you tell this guy?

The boat's lasted this long. Cheap for '72 is better than current technology.

Xan's keel was laid in August 72, so I have a fondness for that
particular year.

You describe pretty much the norm for used boats, sad to say.

I'm finally getting around to replacing Xan's 35 year-old stays this
week. I could probably keep the old ones for a few years as there's
only slight sign of corrosion, but I am more comfortable with changing
them out.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

wrote in message
...
Tom is a good sailor but his boat had been built in 1972 and was a
poorly made cheapie even then. His total lack of ability at
maintaining anything meant that whenever he tried to fix anything it
was afterwards so that eventually his 28' boat became a deathtrap of
fraying standing rigging, unraveling lines and corroded thru-hulls and
I lost contact with him.
Recently, I met an enthusiastic new sailor who began to describe his
newly purchased old boat and soon I realized I knew the boat. OMG, he
bought TOM's boat and he proudly that with a little TLC she will go
anywhere.
snip..
What would you tell this guy?


The truth...the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
He may as well find out sooner rather than later that he has been played for
a sucker....... much better than letting him think with a few minor repairs,
he's seaworthy.

On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:55:02 -0700, ohara5.0 wrote:

snip

What would you tell this guy?

to help you with your decision, ask yourself how you are going to feel if
-knowing what you know- he takes some kids out for an afternoon sail and
they are all lost...if you are competent to judge the condition of the
boat, and he has asked for your opinion...give it to him in clear and
unvarnished terms

mister b wrote:
On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:55:02 -0700, ohara5.0 wrote:

snip

What would you tell this guy?

to help you with your decision, ask yourself how you are going to
feel if -knowing what you know- he takes some kids out for an
afternoon sail and they are all lost...if you are competent to judge
the condition of the boat, and he has asked for your opinion...give
it to him in clear and unvarnished terms

Tell him he should insure it. That should sort things out, unless your US
insurers don't look for a survey?


Dennis.

to help you with your decision, ask yourself how you are going to
feel if -knowing what you know- he takes some kids out for an
afternoon sail and they are all lost...if you are competent to judge
the condition of the boat, and he has asked for your opinion...give
it to him in clear and unvarnished terms

Tell him he should insure it. That should sort things out, unless your US
insurers don't look for a survey?

And don't most marina's require proof of current insurance for the vessel?
Can't see an insurer offering a policy on that disaster.

wrote:

What would you tell this guy?

Point out the problem with the gate valve as a seacock and suggest to
him to seek professional advice as to its replacement. That should start
him on a chain of eventful discoveries because he'll have to replace the
through hull and that'll mean a haul out and that'll mean he'll be
exposed to more seasoned seamen who will further the process along.

-paul

On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 19:55:02 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

What would you tell this guy?

Insure and scuttle. Or just scuttle.

Casady

On Apr 6, 10:31 pm, (Richard Casady)
wrote:
On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 19:55:02 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

What would you tell this guy?

Insure and scuttle. Or just scuttle.

Casady

I have never had a marina around here (N. FL) ask about insurance.
The story actually got worse when I looked at the mainsail. HOWEVER,
I believe she will never leave the dock again. From what he told me,
he (the new owner) is more interested in partying at the marina than
sailing. When he looks into any of the costs, he will give it up. He
could recoup his costs by selling the "working" diesel.

On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:44:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Apr 6, 10:31 pm, (Richard Casady)
wrote:
On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 19:55:02 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

What would you tell this guy?

Insure and scuttle. Or just scuttle.

Casady

I have never had a marina around here (N. FL) ask about insurance.
The story actually got worse when I looked at the mainsail. HOWEVER,
I believe she will never leave the dock again. From what he told me,
he (the new owner) is more interested in partying at the marina than
sailing. When he looks into any of the costs, he will give it up. He
could recoup his costs by selling the "working" diesel

He could give it to the Boy Scouts and take a tax writeoff. A scout
troop could provide the labor for a minimum fixup. They could use it
as a daysailor.

Casady