Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
 

Wayne.B wrote:
For low speed on a small pond you might be happy with an electric
trolling motor and a deep cycle battery.

That's what I've been thiinkin' from the start.
What's wrong with that idea?

Rick

Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
 

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:03:30 -0500, lid wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
For low speed on a small pond you might be happy with an electric
trolling motor and a deep cycle battery.

That's what I've been thiinkin' from the start.
What's wrong with that idea?

Rick


Mostly that a can of gas is a lot easier to wrestle down the dock and
into the boat then a truck battery.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
 

On Fri, 11 Apr 08 Bruce in Bangkok
Mostly that a can of gas is a lot easier to wrestle down the dock and
into the boat then a truck battery.

Under most circumstances I would agree. But for his fairly specific
single purpose (small boat, small lake, prolly doesn't even HAVE a
dock), a small non-spill battery would suffice. And it, plus a
trolling motor, would be easier to wrestle than an outboard, never
mind the gas tank. And for a lot less money to purchase AND maintain
over the years. Btw, he could just leave the battery in the boat with
a $10 solar panel during the week. Maybe I've got the wrong picture of
the situation though.

Rick

Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
 

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 09:44:14 -0500, lid wrote:

On Fri, 11 Apr 08 Bruce in Bangkok
Mostly that a can of gas is a lot easier to wrestle down the dock and
into the boat then a truck battery.

Gas engines drink about 1/2 pound per HP per hour. One pound of gas
delivers as much energy as a 125 AH battery. A 5gal can of gas equals
more than` a ton of batteries.

Under most circumstances I would agree. But for his fairly specific
single purpose (small boat, small lake, prolly doesn't even HAVE a
dock), a small non-spill battery would suffice.

Maybe
I think you might be overestimating the energy content of batteries.

And it, plus a
trolling motor, would be easier to wrestle than an outboard, never
mind the gas tank.

A five horse gas engine weighs less than a useful size battery [50
lbs]

And for a lot less money to purchase AND maintain

This is likely true.

over the years. Btw, he could just leave the battery in the boat with
a $10 solar panel during the week.

You underestimate the size and cost of a useful size solar panel by a
large factor.

Maybe I've got the wrong picture of the situation though.

The trolling motor would not buck a headwind very well, or at all.
Range would be tiny.

I have the 'calculator that takes no prisoners' the HP 48. It is big
enough to fit a hand, and the keys are far enough apart. It has the
conversion from HP to watts, and lots more. Highly recommended if you
like to post on technical matters. [1 HP equals 745 watts]..

I have used a trolling motor, for trolling, with a 16 foot runabout.
It also had a 10 horse gas engine.

Casady

Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
 

On 2008-04-12 11:56:41 -0400, (Richard
Casady) said:

over the years. Btw, he could just leave the battery in the boat with
a $10 solar panel during the week.

You underestimate the size and cost of a useful size solar panel by a
large factor.

I was going to disagree with your post, but luckily re-read it.

IF electric could serve his purposes, a little 12w panel would normally
recharge 100 or so amps between weekends. That happens to be our setup
and it's worked like a charm for a few years. (Our 12w panel cost a bit
more than $10, though.)

Something I haven't pursued, though, is that I recall someone saying
that VWs are shipped with small solar cells to keep their batteries up,
and that those cells can be gotten for very cheap. A few of those might
be sufficient, and may cost in the $10 range.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
 

Richard Casady) said:
You underestimate the size and cost of a useful size solar panel by a
large factor.

Jere Lull wrote
IF electric could serve his purposes, a little 12w panel would normally
recharge 100 or so amps between weekends. That happens to be our setup
and it's worked like a charm for a few years. (Our 12w panel cost a bit
more than $10, though.)

I thought he just wants something to free up his hands. Not an
increase in power or range. Normally, you don't think of oars for
range or to be used against headwinds or current or tides. None of
which will he likely encounter on a small lake anyway (I'm thinkin'
SMALL lake). And on a 14' 195 lb open boat? Even 2.5hp would be a
big increase in power over oars..I'm just sayin', it takes very little
mechanical effort to do the same job as oars on a small lake with a
boat that small/light. -shrug- but maybe I'm misunderstanding what
he's trying to accomplish.

Rick

Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
 

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:20:15 -0500, lid wrote:

Richard Casady) said:
You underestimate the size and cost of a useful size solar panel by a
large factor.

Jere Lull wrote
IF electric could serve his purposes, a little 12w panel would normally
recharge 100 or so amps between weekends. That happens to be our setup
and it's worked like a charm for a few years. (Our 12w panel cost a bit
more than $10, though.)

I thought he just wants something to free up his hands. Not an
increase in power or range. Normally, you don't think of oars for
range or to be used against headwinds or current or tides. None of
which will he likely encounter on a small lake anyway (I'm thinkin'
SMALL lake). And on a 14' 195 lb open boat? Even 2.5hp would be a
big increase in power over oars..I'm just sayin', it takes very little
mechanical effort to do the same job as oars on a small lake with a
boat that small/light. -shrug- but maybe I'm misunderstanding what
he's trying to accomplish.

My family has three outboard motors a 1/2, a one, and a three. T.he 5
1/2 went to Davey Jones locker, with a nice fiberglass duckboat.

Casady

Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
 

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 20:21:53 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

You underestimate the size and cost of a useful size solar panel by a
large factor.

Maybe a small one would do, and how much do they cost? I should have
found out before I posted. Large factor may be too strong. It depends
on some unknowns.

I was going to disagree with your post, but luckily re-read it.

IF electric could serve his purposes, a little 12w panel would normally
recharge 100 or so amps between weekends. That happens to be our setup
and it's worked like a charm for a few years. (Our 12w panel cost a bit
more than $10, though.):

Maybe. I never put it to the test, I just do a few calculations.

Since you need 125 AH to charge the battery that much, and there are
only 168 hours in a week, it would seem those are some strong healthy
watts. 12 regular watts give you just one amp, and what about not
always facing the sun squarely? Days _are_ longer during the summer,
when most of the boating takes place, of course. Whatever, it might be
enough, if the power required is small. We are both guessing about
that all important figure In any case, that would require maybe an 8D
battery, at 150 lbs, If you don't run it down below half.

I figure a solar panel should be big enough to run a small ventilation
fan, pump out any rainwater or leakage, and run an anchor light as
well as just keep a battery charged.. However big that is. What do
solar cells cost these days? I understand lead batteries have the
lowest self discharge rate of any type rechargable battery, by the
way.

It is true that a battery will last longer if kept fully charged,
maybe saving enough to cover the solar cells. [Dream on, nothing on a
boat is cheap, let alone free]

Casady.

Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
 

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 20:21:53 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-04-12 11:56:41 -0400, (Richard
Casady) said:

over the years. Btw, he could just leave the battery in the boat with
a $10 solar panel during the week.

You underestimate the size and cost of a useful size solar panel by a
large factor.

I was going to disagree with your post, but luckily re-read it.

IF electric could serve his purposes, a little 12w panel would normally
recharge 100 or so amps between weekends. That happens to be our setup
and it's worked like a charm for a few years. (Our 12w panel cost a bit
more than $10, though.)

Something I haven't pursued, though, is that I recall someone saying
that VWs are shipped with small solar cells to keep their batteries up,
and that those cells can be gotten for very cheap. A few of those might
be sufficient, and may cost in the $10 range.


Then, along comes the three day weekend and the guy wants to use the
boat three days in a row......

Or to put it another way, I know a lot of people who's only source of
power is an internal combustion engine but I don't know anyone who's
only source of power is a solar panel.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
 

Richard Casady wrote:

I have the 'calculator that takes no prisoners' the HP 48. It is big
enough to fit a hand, and the keys are far enough apart. It has the
conversion from HP to watts, and lots more. Highly recommended if you
like to post on technical matters. [1 HP equals 745 watts]..

Time to get that '48 calibrated, 1 Hp = 745.69987, even if you round it
to three significant figures you 746. (I know, nitpicking)

Cheers
Marty