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Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
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Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
"Martin Baxter" wrote in message ... http://www.canadaeast.com/rss/article/253686 Talk about a cluster ****. Cheers Marty Towing at sea is a tricky business even withought the ice. I always wondered about that when I owned a 19' weekender sailboat with a hull speed of about 5 knots. What would happen if a motorboat towed you at double that speed. |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
"Martin Baxter" wrote:
http://www.canadaeast.com/rss/article/253686 Talk about a cluster ****. Sounds pretty bad. I can't believe that the Coasties were pulling a ~40' boat and not keeping a lookout on the tow. Especially if they're towing thru an area of ice floes.... guess an icebreaker doesn't have to worry about hitting ice herself? "Don White" wrote: Towing at sea is a tricky business even withought the ice. I always wondered about that when I owned a 19' weekender sailboat with a hull speed of about 5 knots. What would happen if a motorboat towed you at double that speed. Depends on a lot of things... sea state, how the towline is attached, whether the towed boat can plane at all and if the crew can hold her in an attitude to plane. I've been on 22' (and smaller) sailboats towed at planing speed.... Always in calm weather, it's also true. It's a waste of gas, but it does get you home faster. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
wrote in message ... "Martin Baxter" wrote: http://www.canadaeast.com/rss/article/253686 Talk about a cluster ****. Sounds pretty bad. I can't believe that the Coasties were pulling a ~40' boat and not keeping a lookout on the tow. Especially if they're towing thru an area of ice floes.... guess an icebreaker doesn't have to worry about hitting ice herself? "Don White" wrote: Towing at sea is a tricky business even withought the ice. I always wondered about that when I owned a 19' weekender sailboat with a hull speed of about 5 knots. What would happen if a motorboat towed you at double that speed. Depends on a lot of things... sea state, how the towline is attached, whether the towed boat can plane at all and if the crew can hold her in an attitude to plane. I've been on 22' (and smaller) sailboats towed at planing speed.... Always in calm weather, it's also true. It's a waste of gas, but it does get you home faster. Fresh Breezes- Doug King One of my previous sailboats had a wing keel and got towed by a power boat. With considerable power we eventually got up on plane on the wing keel, just like a hydrofoil. Everyone worked to carefully balance the boat, it was one hell of a ride at 25 knots. Yea, that's the ticket! Glory! Bob Crantz |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:57:07 -0700, dougking888 wrote:
Sounds pretty bad. I can't believe that the Coasties were pulling a ~40' boat and not keeping a lookout on the tow. almost impossible to believe given the images I've seen of the sea ice conditions they were transiting, and the fact that the towed ship had no rudder...but a lack of a lookout is what is being alleged...hopefully the truth will out in the investigation...in the meantime 4 souls are lost and 4 sealing families are devastated |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
mister b wrote:
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:57:07 -0700, dougking888 wrote: Sounds pretty bad. I can't believe that the Coasties were pulling a ~40' boat and not keeping a lookout on the tow. almost impossible to believe given the images I've seen of the sea ice conditions they were transiting, and the fact that the towed ship had no rudder...but a lack of a lookout is what is being alleged...hopefully the truth will out in the investigation...in the meantime 4 souls are lost and 4 sealing families are devastated Been listening to the story on CBC radio this morning at work. They were interviewing a Capt. of a trailing boat, he claimed that the Coast Guard were not answering his calls on VHF. He was in visual range and watched as the disaster unfolded, he alleges that he repeatedly hailed the CG to warn them that the tow was going pear shaped but got no answer. It's possible that the cutbacks to the Coast Guard that have been imposed over the last few years have impacted the service so much that the boats are now undermanned and there's just not enough crew to run the ship through ice and maintain lookouts fore and aft? Cheers Marty ------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------ Do your users want the best web-email gateway? Don't let your customers drift off to free webmail services install your own web gateway! -- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_webmail.htm ---- |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
|
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:19:47 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote: It's possible that the cutbacks to the Coast Guard that have been imposed over the last few years have impacted the service so much that the boats are now undermanned and there's just not enough crew to run the ship through ice and maintain lookouts fore and aft? It's also possible that there are training and organizational issues. A friend of mine was sailing a 40 footer back from Nova Scotia 10 years ago when he was T-boned in the fog (on the starboard side) by a Canadian Coast Guard boat. His boat was almost totaled. |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
"Richard Casady" wrote in message ... On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 07:57:07 -0700 (PDT), wrote: I've been on 22' (and smaller) sailboats towed at planing speed.... Always in calm weather, it's also true. It's a waste of gas, but it does get you home faster. Not a problem with nearly all daysailors. I used to tow 16 foot scows regularly. Racers who had the wind die. Scows are somewhat interesting, by the way. The A scows are 38 foot and 1850 lbs. They can do at least 25 under sail. All the scows have twin rudders, pretty rare for monohulls. Casady Usually, before starting to tow a boat a waiver has to be signed and agreed by the captain of the boat being towed. |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
wrote in message ... Usually, before starting to tow a boat a waiver has to be signed and agreed by the captain of the boat being towed. Negligence can't be waived. |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
What is today's date????
Got 'em, Martie! "Martin Baxter" wrote in message ... mister b wrote: On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 07:57:07 -0700, dougking888 wrote: Sounds pretty bad. I can't believe that the Coasties were pulling a ~40' boat and not keeping a lookout on the tow. almost impossible to believe given the images I've seen of the sea ice conditions they were transiting, and the fact that the towed ship had no rudder...but a lack of a lookout is what is being alleged...hopefully the truth will out in the investigation...in the meantime 4 souls are lost and 4 sealing families are devastated Been listening to the story on CBC radio this morning at work. They were interviewing a Capt. of a trailing boat, he claimed that the Coast Guard were not answering his calls on VHF. He was in visual range and watched as the disaster unfolded, he alleges that he repeatedly hailed the CG to warn them that the tow was going pear shaped but got no answer. It's possible that the cutbacks to the Coast Guard that have been imposed over the last few years have impacted the service so much that the boats are now undermanned and there's just not enough crew to run the ship through ice and maintain lookouts fore and aft? Cheers Marty ------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------ Do your users want the best web-email gateway? Don't let your customers drift off to free webmail services install your own web gateway! -- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_webmail.htm ---- |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
"Tony Helton" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... Usually, before starting to tow a boat a waiver has to be signed and agreed by the captain of the boat being towed. Negligence can't be waived. Let's make this clear, I am not for any parties in this dispute. Between the common law, maritime law and jurisprudence you have a good point. Then you throw the "Act of god" in to this and we have a good blend. In many instances a waiver is accepted over the a radio or sat/phone transmissions and deemed as legal. As you have stated "negligence" cannot be waived. However, negligence can be applicable to the towee and tower. I some jurisprudence the captain having the most proven skill and experience has been seriously questioned? |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:51:37 -0400, Jill M wrote:
What is today's date???? Got 'em, Martie! best spend a little less time watching American Idol and a little more time watching the news there buttercup |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
wrote:
"Tony Helton" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... Usually, before starting to tow a boat a waiver has to be signed and agreed by the captain of the boat being towed. Negligence can't be waived. Let's make this clear, I am not for any parties in this dispute. Between the common law, maritime law and jurisprudence you have a good point. Then you throw the "Act of god" in to this and we have a good blend. In many instances a waiver is accepted over the a radio or sat/phone transmissions and deemed as legal. As you have stated "negligence" cannot be waived. However, negligence can be applicable to the towee and tower. I some jurisprudence the captain having the most proven skill and experience has been seriously questioned? My experience with the Canadian coasties has been pretty good. One night, daughter and I turned out in the cold and dark, they found us a room in the town next door. A couple of weeks later they gave me a tow into Twillingate after I lost my engine. I found them to stand a regular VHF watch, though sometimes it was a bit difficult getting them or, having got them the operator was far, far away and unfamiliar with the harbour I was in. Canadian Coasties are civil service, not military. Therefore they tend to be locals and more "professional" in that they are making a career of it. I would not be surprised at all if some of the ships crew were either related or family acquaintances of the sealer. They will have a lot of explaining to do at the bar, be it the legal or neighborhood variety. My heart goes out to all involved. Also, did anyone here follow the events in last years sealing season? There were just bunches of boats caught in the ice. And the ferrys up there are all pretty much in tough shape, so the breakers have been having to keep ways open for them. Hell last week the Caribou, 300+ of ice rated ferry, got caught outside of Sydney and it took two days and a breaker to get her in. So these guys have been working there buts off. Perhaps fatigue was an issue. Check out current ice conditions he http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/app/WsvPr...11091&Lang=eng USCG during Nam was a good place to go to not go to Nam. The boat service had a lot of folks who were scary in a boat. Aviation was generally better because you had some real tough A school to get through first. Still, there are stories best left untold. Least anyone be tempted to snicker at the Canuks check out the USCG project Deepwater fiasco. |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
hpeer wrote:
Canadian Coasties are civil service, not military. Therefore they tend to be locals and more "professional" in that they are making a career of it. I would not be surprised at all if some of the ships crew were either related or family acquaintances of the sealer. They will have a lot of explaining to do at the bar, be it the legal or neighborhood variety. My heart goes out to all involved. I dunno, I do know a few Canadian Coasties, and unfortunatly they are like many civil servants, (and being one myself I both recognize the type and apologize, many of us are hard working, dedicated loyal and honest). Further as to knowing the sealers in question, I have my doubts as the Madelaines are French, not Canadian territory, (what the hell are they doing sealing in Canadian waters! ;-) ). Cheers Marty |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
"Marty" wrote in message ... hpeer wrote: Canadian Coasties are civil service, not military. Therefore they tend to be locals and more "professional" in that they are making a career of it. I would not be surprised at all if some of the ships crew were either related or family acquaintances of the sealer. They will have a lot of explaining to do at the bar, be it the legal or neighborhood variety. My heart goes out to all involved. I dunno, I do know a few Canadian Coasties, and unfortunatly they are like many civil servants, (and being one myself I both recognize the type and apologize, many of us are hard working, dedicated loyal and honest). Further as to knowing the sealers in question, I have my doubts as the Madelaines are French, not Canadian territory, (what the hell are they doing sealing in Canadian waters! ;-) ). Cheers Marty Uh uh! those Islands belong to Quebec... http://www.tourismeilesdelamadeleine.../index_ang.cfm Don't confuse them with St. Pierre et Miquelon islands south of Newfoundland which are a French territory. http://www.routehsp.com/Routehsp.com/Welcome.html |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
Marty wrote:
hpeer wrote: Canadian Coasties are civil service, not military. Therefore they tend to be locals and more "professional" in that they are making a career of it. I would not be surprised at all if some of the ships crew were either related or family acquaintances of the sealer. They will have a lot of explaining to do at the bar, be it the legal or neighborhood variety. My heart goes out to all involved. I dunno, I do know a few Canadian Coasties, and unfortunatly they are like many civil servants, (and being one myself I both recognize the type and apologize, many of us are hard working, dedicated loyal and honest). Further as to knowing the sealers in question, I have my doubts as the Madelaines are French, not Canadian territory, (what the hell are they doing sealing in Canadian waters! ;-) ). Cheers Marty Marty, You are correct that it is less likely they knew them because they were from the Madelaines. I forgot that detail. Your other points are well taken also. |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
Marty wrote:
hpeer wrote: Canadian Coasties are civil service, not military. Therefore they tend to be locals and more "professional" in that they are making a career of it. I would not be surprised at all if some of the ships crew were either related or family acquaintances of the sealer. They will have a lot of explaining to do at the bar, be it the legal or neighborhood variety. My heart goes out to all involved. I dunno, I do know a few Canadian Coasties, and unfortunatly they are like many civil servants, (and being one myself I both recognize the type and apologize, many of us are hard working, dedicated loyal and honest). Further as to knowing the sealers in question, I have my doubts as the Madelaines are French, not Canadian territory, (what the hell are they doing sealing in Canadian waters! ;-) ). Cheers Marty Marty, You are correct that it is less likely they knew them because they were from the Madelaines. I forgot that detail. Your other points are well taken also. More here, truly sad: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundlan...ast-guard.html |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
hpeer wrote:
You are correct that it is less likely they knew them because they were from the Madelaines. I forgot that detail. Your other points are well taken also. actually I'm not, see Don's post. More here, truly sad: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundlan...ast-guard.html Looks like a mess alright. Sealers and fishermen generally have no love of the Coast Guard when the CG are performing their regulatory duties and people do love to blame the Government for just about anything; I'm going to take everything I read about this tragedy with a large grain of salt. I'll wait for the outcomes of the various investigations, I'm sure there'll be enough blame to go around. Cheers Marty |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
Don White wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message Uh uh! those Islands belong to Quebec... http://www.tourismeilesdelamadeleine.../index_ang.cfm Don't confuse them with St. Pierre et Miquelon islands south of Newfoundland which are a French territory. http://www.routehsp.com/Routehsp.com/Welcome.html Oops! don't know what I was thinking.... Cheers Marty ------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------ Do your users want the best web-email gateway? Don't let your customers drift off to free webmail services install your own web gateway! -- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_webmail.htm ---- |
Don't ask our Coasties to tow you!
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:36:30 -0400, in message
Martin Baxter wrote: http://www.canadaeast.com/rss/article/253686 Talk about a cluster ****. Cheers Marty I'm not sure there's enough accurate information available to do anything more than offer sympathy. Whether there will ever be enough accurate information is a question that can only be answered with time. The final report from the TSB on the Queen of the North is rather circumspect... Ryk, who has a son out there in the ice |
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