Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

Larry W4CSC wrote:
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:12:51 -0800, "Steve" wrote:



If your still not sure, then pour a little out into an open pie tin and toss
a match in to it. If it flashes right up, then it's most likely it has gas
in it.. The straight diesel will just burn like kerosene (may even put the
match out).


Is now a good time to mention that gas mixed with fuel oil is one of
the most explosive mixtures this side of dynamite or fuel oil and
fertilizer?

Sorry you destroyed your engine. I always found the pumps clearly
marked.



Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....
Why is gasoline mixed with fuel oil any more explosive than gasoline by
itself? I can see that it might have more thermal energy, but why should
it be MORE explosive than gasoline by itself?

--
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:23:06 -0600, dazed and confuzed
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

Interestingly, there was a claim here not long ago that mixing a bit
of diesel with petrol made it much _safer_ to weld around etc.

Why is gasoline mixed with fuel oil any more explosive than gasoline by
itself? I can see that it might have more thermal energy

It has less, actually, unless magic happens. Diesel has more than
petrol. Petrol is hotter, but has less actual output/litre.

, but why should it be MORE explosive than gasoline by itself?

I am interested as well.
************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:23:06 -0600, dazed and confuzed
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

Interestingly, there was a claim here not long ago that mixing a bit
of diesel with petrol made it much _safer_ to weld around etc.

Why is gasoline mixed with fuel oil any more explosive than gasoline by
itself? I can see that it might have more thermal energy

It has less, actually, unless magic happens. Diesel has more than
petrol. Petrol is hotter, but has less actual output/litre.

, but why should it be MORE explosive than gasoline by itself?

I am interested as well.
************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

Old Nick wrote:
On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:23:06 -0600, dazed and confuzed
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

Interestingly, there was a claim here not long ago that mixing a bit
of diesel with petrol made it much _safer_ to weld around etc.


Why is gasoline mixed with fuel oil any more explosive than gasoline by
itself? I can see that it might have more thermal energy


It has less, actually, unless magic happens. Diesel has more than
petrol. Petrol is hotter, but has less actual output/litre.

That is what I meant....More than gasoline by itself.


, but why should it be MORE explosive than gasoline by itself?


I am interested as well.
************************************************** ** sorry

.........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?


--
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

Old Nick wrote:
On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:23:06 -0600, dazed and confuzed
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

Interestingly, there was a claim here not long ago that mixing a bit
of diesel with petrol made it much _safer_ to weld around etc.


Why is gasoline mixed with fuel oil any more explosive than gasoline by
itself? I can see that it might have more thermal energy


It has less, actually, unless magic happens. Diesel has more than
petrol. Petrol is hotter, but has less actual output/litre.

That is what I meant....More than gasoline by itself.


, but why should it be MORE explosive than gasoline by itself?


I am interested as well.
************************************************** ** sorry

.........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?


--
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

"Ytter" wrote in message ...
Hi! I need your expertise or opinion.
I have diesel engine Volvo Penta MD3 on my sailboat .Just after refueling in
one of the marina(in 10 minutes) engine reached temp 280 F
I had to run the engine for another 8-10 minutes to drop the anchor and I
shut off the engine which was red hot.I suspect that they pumped 20 gal
gasoline instead of diesel.Capacity of the tank is 40 gal.I still have this
fuel in the tank.How can I check if gasoline is in the tank,mixed with
diesel ? Is it any method,way to analyze or find out.Maybe I should find the
lab or place that can be determine what this fuel consists.
If they pumped the gasoline accidentally or not the engine is probably
damaged.Thank You For Your Help.
Ytter

Take a small sample from the fuel tank (or from the fuel filter),
spill it out on the ground, throw a match on it. If it burns, it's got
gas mixed in with it. You can throw matches on it all day and it won't
burn if it's diesel, which needs to be in the form of a mist to burn.

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

"Ytter" wrote in message ...
Hi! I need your expertise or opinion.
I have diesel engine Volvo Penta MD3 on my sailboat .Just after refueling in
one of the marina(in 10 minutes) engine reached temp 280 F
I had to run the engine for another 8-10 minutes to drop the anchor and I
shut off the engine which was red hot.I suspect that they pumped 20 gal
gasoline instead of diesel.Capacity of the tank is 40 gal.I still have this
fuel in the tank.How can I check if gasoline is in the tank,mixed with
diesel ? Is it any method,way to analyze or find out.Maybe I should find the
lab or place that can be determine what this fuel consists.
If they pumped the gasoline accidentally or not the engine is probably
damaged.Thank You For Your Help.
Ytter

Take a small sample from the fuel tank (or from the fuel filter),
spill it out on the ground, throw a match on it. If it burns, it's got
gas mixed in with it. You can throw matches on it all day and it won't
burn if it's diesel, which needs to be in the form of a mist to burn.

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

engsol wrote:

You mention above that the engine was "red hot" after shut-down. What were
the indicators? The temp gauge only? "Frying" noises and smell of a hot engine?
Smoke/smell from hot paint? Could a stuck-closed thermostat be the problem?

We bought our boat used and as we were taking it home it appeared to overheat.
I sweated about that and got a diesel guy in, and he found that it was a
malfunctioning voltage regulator. It was cranking up the temp gauge.

If the temp gauge was the only indication, I'd certainly recommend a
consultation with a qualified mechanic before you take your engine out and shoot
it.

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

engsol wrote:

You mention above that the engine was "red hot" after shut-down. What were
the indicators? The temp gauge only? "Frying" noises and smell of a hot engine?
Smoke/smell from hot paint? Could a stuck-closed thermostat be the problem?

We bought our boat used and as we were taking it home it appeared to overheat.
I sweated about that and got a diesel guy in, and he found that it was a
malfunctioning voltage regulator. It was cranking up the temp gauge.

If the temp gauge was the only indication, I'd certainly recommend a
consultation with a qualified mechanic before you take your engine out and shoot
it.

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

also, no one mentioned that diesels can and do run
just fine on up to 10% gasolene, so even 20% should
not have been an ungodly problem.

I have a 1990 Ford F250 with the 7.3 NA 'Binder engine. It has 22.5:1
compression. The manual says it can run up to 30% gasoline. I have
never tried this, as I am already concerned about the lubricity of my
Calif fuel. I always add a lubricant to the fuel. :-)

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

also, no one mentioned that diesels can and do run
just fine on up to 10% gasolene, so even 20% should
not have been an ungodly problem.

I have a 1990 Ford F250 with the 7.3 NA 'Binder engine. It has 22.5:1
compression. The manual says it can run up to 30% gasoline. I have
never tried this, as I am already concerned about the lubricity of my
Calif fuel. I always add a lubricant to the fuel. :-)

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:00:24 -0600, dazed and confuzed
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

Yes. Sorry. My bad read.

That is what I meant....More than gasoline by itself.


, but why should it be MORE explosive than gasoline by itself?


I am interested as well.

************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:00:24 -0600, dazed and confuzed
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

Yes. Sorry. My bad read.

That is what I meant....More than gasoline by itself.


, but why should it be MORE explosive than gasoline by itself?


I am interested as well.

************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

Dan Best wrote:

Larry W4CSC wrote:
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:12:51 -0800, "Steve" wrote:
Sorry you destroyed your engine. I always found the pumps clearly
marked.

A number of years ago on our way down the coast in our Atomic-4 powered
Catalina 30, we stopped at Morrow Bay for fuel. The fuel dock there is
a VERY high one, maybe 8 or 9 feet above the water and I asked the
attendant to "Hand me down the unleaded". After filling my tank, I was
up in the office as he filled out the reciept, I saw him write "16 gal.
Diesel" and corrected him, telling him that it was unleaded. He said
"No, it was diesel". When I insisted that it was unleaded, he said
"Look, all we sell here is diesel. We don't have any gas pumps".

Oops!

Doesn't that remind you of the urban legend about the lighthouse
keeper and the arrogant aircraft carrier commander arguing on the
radiotelephone about who should change course?

Doesn't one need a certain arrogance to rise to the position of flat
top commander? What kind of personality does it take to be a
lighthouse driver? Do they share a stoic sense of duty?

If the compression, lube oil pressure, fuel pump and injectors are
still good enough, or can be made good enough to run the engine
smoothly without clanking noises, change out the bad fuel for real
diesel, and it might run ok for some time. Only a teardown and
qualified mech can assess subtle and hidden damage before
performance losses prove that engine life has been shortened.

You will need the invoice for the completed work, and evidence that
the gas jerk mis-fuelled you, entirely without your negligence,
before a judge would award you all of the damages. It likely won't
be in a small claims court.

How was your insurance at the time of trouble? Document the
incident. It won't come to justice until the damage is demonstrable.
Your insurance co. would take them to court after the claim, to
recover their costs if you are covered. If not, it will be you and
your lawyer against the world. Perhaps some partial settlement in
lieu of a court battle?

To tear down or not is the question. How well will you sleep at sea
near mid ocean with a suspect engine? What would it take to restore
your confidence?

Loss of enjoyment of your boat itself constitutes damage, equivalent
to reducing the value of your boat to zero, or by the amount
required to regain confidence in it again. Ephemeral damages like
that are very dodgy to quantify, unless you get lucky and find
yourself before a judge who is rabidly avid about sailing.



Terry K

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

Dan Best wrote:

Larry W4CSC wrote:
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:12:51 -0800, "Steve" wrote:
Sorry you destroyed your engine. I always found the pumps clearly
marked.

A number of years ago on our way down the coast in our Atomic-4 powered
Catalina 30, we stopped at Morrow Bay for fuel. The fuel dock there is
a VERY high one, maybe 8 or 9 feet above the water and I asked the
attendant to "Hand me down the unleaded". After filling my tank, I was
up in the office as he filled out the reciept, I saw him write "16 gal.
Diesel" and corrected him, telling him that it was unleaded. He said
"No, it was diesel". When I insisted that it was unleaded, he said
"Look, all we sell here is diesel. We don't have any gas pumps".

Oops!

Doesn't that remind you of the urban legend about the lighthouse
keeper and the arrogant aircraft carrier commander arguing on the
radiotelephone about who should change course?

Doesn't one need a certain arrogance to rise to the position of flat
top commander? What kind of personality does it take to be a
lighthouse driver? Do they share a stoic sense of duty?

If the compression, lube oil pressure, fuel pump and injectors are
still good enough, or can be made good enough to run the engine
smoothly without clanking noises, change out the bad fuel for real
diesel, and it might run ok for some time. Only a teardown and
qualified mech can assess subtle and hidden damage before
performance losses prove that engine life has been shortened.

You will need the invoice for the completed work, and evidence that
the gas jerk mis-fuelled you, entirely without your negligence,
before a judge would award you all of the damages. It likely won't
be in a small claims court.

How was your insurance at the time of trouble? Document the
incident. It won't come to justice until the damage is demonstrable.
Your insurance co. would take them to court after the claim, to
recover their costs if you are covered. If not, it will be you and
your lawyer against the world. Perhaps some partial settlement in
lieu of a court battle?

To tear down or not is the question. How well will you sleep at sea
near mid ocean with a suspect engine? What would it take to restore
your confidence?

Loss of enjoyment of your boat itself constitutes damage, equivalent
to reducing the value of your boat to zero, or by the amount
required to regain confidence in it again. Ephemeral damages like
that are very dodgy to quantify, unless you get lucky and find
yourself before a judge who is rabidly avid about sailing.



Terry K

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

Diesel does NOT have to be in a mist form to burn. The way we start our
Olympic diesel stove is to let a small amount of diesel wet the bottom of
the fire box (even a small puddle) and throw a burning piece of paper towel
in the puddle. Diesel starts burning, slowly, and builds.
"John" wrote in message
om...
"Ytter" wrote in message
...
Hi! I need your expertise or opinion.
I have diesel engine Volvo Penta MD3 on my sailboat .Just after
refueling in
one of the marina(in 10 minutes) engine reached temp 280 F
I had to run the engine for another 8-10 minutes to drop the anchor and
I
shut off the engine which was red hot.I suspect that they pumped 20 gal
gasoline instead of diesel.Capacity of the tank is 40 gal.I still have
this
fuel in the tank.How can I check if gasoline is in the tank,mixed with
diesel ? Is it any method,way to analyze or find out.Maybe I should find
the
lab or place that can be determine what this fuel consists.
If they pumped the gasoline accidentally or not the engine is probably
damaged.Thank You For Your Help.
Ytter

Take a small sample from the fuel tank (or from the fuel filter),
spill it out on the ground, throw a match on it. If it burns, it's got
gas mixed in with it. You can throw matches on it all day and it won't
burn if it's diesel, which needs to be in the form of a mist to burn.

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

Diesel does NOT have to be in a mist form to burn. The way we start our
Olympic diesel stove is to let a small amount of diesel wet the bottom of
the fire box (even a small puddle) and throw a burning piece of paper towel
in the puddle. Diesel starts burning, slowly, and builds.
"John" wrote in message
om...
"Ytter" wrote in message
...
Hi! I need your expertise or opinion.
I have diesel engine Volvo Penta MD3 on my sailboat .Just after
refueling in
one of the marina(in 10 minutes) engine reached temp 280 F
I had to run the engine for another 8-10 minutes to drop the anchor and
I
shut off the engine which was red hot.I suspect that they pumped 20 gal
gasoline instead of diesel.Capacity of the tank is 40 gal.I still have
this
fuel in the tank.How can I check if gasoline is in the tank,mixed with
diesel ? Is it any method,way to analyze or find out.Maybe I should find
the
lab or place that can be determine what this fuel consists.
If they pumped the gasoline accidentally or not the engine is probably
damaged.Thank You For Your Help.
Ytter

Take a small sample from the fuel tank (or from the fuel filter),
spill it out on the ground, throw a match on it. If it burns, it's got
gas mixed in with it. You can throw matches on it all day and it won't
burn if it's diesel, which needs to be in the form of a mist to burn.

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

In article ,
"Ytter" wrote:

Engsol! Engine would start-run for 3-4 sec and die,then I started again
after I checked thermostat-was OK,changed oil and filter.,I pushed the
throttle almost to the max ,black smoke,muddy,greasy,heavy smoke came out
with some water-engine run for 2 min and continue spiting this black water
and stopped abruptly,cut like a knife-mechanic was present when we did that
and said that he doesn't know what is wrong.He has spent 2 hours checking
what was wrong and left me without answer.Of course took the money for
trying.
Ytter

The overheating sounds bad. Hope you were exaggerating.

The black smoke and dying COULD be something else, though: As soon as I
poured on cruise power after our first fill one season (late June after
a November end-of-season fill), we got just about what you describe and
thought for sure I'd put gas into the tank. Long story short: Had to
change the filters twice, then clean the last one (I only carry 2
spares), bleeding each time. Was a BIG shot of algae.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Gasoline pumped to diesel tank.....
 

In article ,
"Ytter" wrote:

Engsol! Engine would start-run for 3-4 sec and die,then I started again
after I checked thermostat-was OK,changed oil and filter.,I pushed the
throttle almost to the max ,black smoke,muddy,greasy,heavy smoke came out
with some water-engine run for 2 min and continue spiting this black water
and stopped abruptly,cut like a knife-mechanic was present when we did that
and said that he doesn't know what is wrong.He has spent 2 hours checking
what was wrong and left me without answer.Of course took the money for
trying.
Ytter

The overheating sounds bad. Hope you were exaggerating.

The black smoke and dying COULD be something else, though: As soon as I
poured on cruise power after our first fill one season (late June after
a November end-of-season fill), we got just about what you describe and
thought for sure I'd put gas into the tank. Long story short: Had to
change the filters twice, then clean the last one (I only carry 2
spares), bleeding each time. Was a BIG shot of algae.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/